12 years on....
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Just glad Ian Curtis get's all the reverence these days and you don't hear much about Cobain
God, this happened shortly after I moved to the States. I was too young to know about what happened to Cobain. Didn't get into Nirvana till I was in middle school.
Johnny "Two Sheds" Jackson wrote: Just glad Ian Curtis get's all the reverence these days and you don't hear much about Cobain
i agree
The one thing I found ironic about Kurt was that he killed himself partly out of despair at the meatheads who were getting into his music and showing up at his gigs. I don't blame him as I went to school with a hefty chunk of those brainless wonders.
I personally don't like Nirvana, their music or what they stood for. They're kind of a pet hate of mine because I had to put up with so much exposure to them at high school. Also, those stupid merchandised-to-fuck smiley hoodies get on my tits too. My bias aside, their Unplugged album was alright I suppose but I don't own a copy now. Ironically, one of the best things they did was the acoustic Bowie cover!
RIP I suppose. Cobain might have been interesting if he'd not kicked the bucket and managed to forge a solo career away from Nirvana and the grunge sound. I think he had potential, pity he mostly drowned it out with large amounts of overdone angst and a distortion pedal 
Very dull.
IMO of course.
Come on now, Nirvana were a great band and Kurt is one of the legends of music, so of course RIP Kurt. 
I'm not huge on Nirvana, but I respect them, even though I recently discovered that Come as You Are is a blatent rip off...and I prefer the Killing Joke song!
Their Unplugged is my favourite album, but to be honest I think Pearl jam's Unplugged is better, and Alice In Chains' Unplugged kills them all.
RIP Kurt
He was looking to have a solo career. Just him and an acoustic guitar. He said it in an interview a few months before the gun went in the mouth.
For me, I got into Nirvana in 2002. Before that I really only listened to U2, Police, Joy Division and The Doors on occasions. Nirvana were a real kick in the teeth for me. Nevermind and Bleach were two of the most exciting things I ever heard. That lead me to discover other bands.
Although I don't put them on much now (possibly due to the overexposure, as alistar put it) I still love them. I suppose it's still a shock, as he was an MTV icon and it's hard to reconcile the thought of someone who's on TV constantly killing themselves, especially in 1994.
IMHO.
State of Love and Trust wrote:
I'm not huge on Nirvana, but I respect them, even though I recently discovered that Come as You Are is a blatent rip off...and I prefer the Killing Joke song!
Thanks to me.
Christopher Owens wrote:
State of Love and Trust wrote:
I'm not huge on Nirvana, but I respect them, even though I recently discovered that Come as You Are is a blatent rip off...and I prefer the Killing Joke song!
Thanks to me.
I know, I know 
The fact that Rolling Stone gave Nirvana "Artist of the Decade" for the 1990s is what made me really :barf:. I couldn't stand them before, and that pissed me off even more. Dead in early '94 and gets band of the decade. Give me a break.
Who did better in the 90s? Oh, I don't know - perhaps R.E.M., Radiohead, or even Pearl Jam to name a few.
i remember being in a nightclub in Israel when a girl told me he had topped himself that day.It didn't ruin or affect my night at all ,really
man... i flipped after it was 10 years. now it just seems like ancient history.
i was in 9th Grade when he killed himself. word traveled around history class on a piece of paper. one of the slackers in the back of the class had the local alternative station tuned in on a pair of headphones. she spread the word as soon as it came in.
Johnny "Two Sheds" Jackson wrote: i remember being in a nightclub in Israel when a girl told me he had topped himself that day.It didn't ruin or affect my night at all ,really
FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
YOU SHOULD HAVE WENT BACK TO YOUR ROOM. BLASTED ANY NIRVANA ALBUM, AND WALLOWED IN MISERY.
i saw them live a few months before nevermind came out. they were opening for dinosaur, jr. and i thought they were good, though i had never heard of them before. then the album was released and the world went flannel. i admit i rode the grunge wave my senior year in high school, but i started to lose interest once in utero came out. i did see the band once more, however: in november, 1993. i haven't really listened to them since, but i think nevermind is a great album. i was saddened by kurt cobain's death but all the people who showed up at the candlelight vigils needed lives and/or reality checks.
i have to agree with liam, though. foo fighters are probably the better band. dave grohl is by far the better musician.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: think he had potential, pity he mostly drowned it out with large amounts of overdone angst and a distortion pedal
they could've been great but that's not what the whole Grunge was about.
weren't they supposed to headline Loolapolooza that year. Janes Addiction, Fishbone, Primus, Soundgarden.. not the same field as current Pearl Jam. 12 years.
ANALOGUE Mike wrote: Bottom of the food chain
but there was so much $ involved. almost ten years since Diana was killed in 1997. edit after above. CO. class- . just remember all the press. ..
14 -K wrote: they could've been great but that's not what the whole Grunge was about.
What, you're saying the point of grunge was to be shite?
They succeeded admirably in my book!
very. true but not really you know.. to succeed. was working nights with a couple of guys that subjected me to all the latest and the loudest for five nights a week and honestly it was a little much. but somehow those two also saw outside the box and enjoyed other - things. .
Been having more thoughts on Nirvana. For me, they were the gateway to other bands, and it still appears to be that way today. Just glanced at the book 'Heaver Than Heaven', a biography on him which is brilliant and it really reminded me of how powerful the idea of Kurt was: living in squalor, parents hating him. It's no wonder a lot of kids picked up on the music. He was for real.
Recently found out that a kid who used to give me grief about having long hair has started growing his long as well. He believes that Courtney killed him, based on the documentary and the book 'Who killied Kurt Cobain?' Whether this is the Yoko syndrome or not, I don't know. But it showed that even today, people still believe in him, believing that he had to die for something. Not recognising the fact that he was his own worst enemy. Hopefully, he'll come to his senses and realise this.
It'll make the music more poignent.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote:
What, you're saying the point of grunge was to be shite?
They succeeded admirably in my book!
Dinosaur Jr sang: 'So fucked I can't believe it'
Grunge in one lyric.
there's a book called 'who killed kurt cobain'???
is it brought to us by the same people who are behind the moon landing conspiracy literature?
AgentWood wrote: is it brought to us by the same people who are behind the moon landing conspiracy literature?
But they never landed on the moon!
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote:
AgentWood wrote: is it brought to us by the same people who are behind the moon landing conspiracy literature?
But they never landed on the moon!
i know. and courtney killed kurt, just like yoko ono paid mark chapman to kill john lennon. duuuhhhhh!
Basically, the investigator who Courtney hired to find Kurt when he disappeared runs an investigation where he believes she hired somebody to kill him. The Rome incident was apparently her first attempt to kill him.
The book's message is 'We're not saying that Courtney Love did it, but basically, Courtney Love did it.'
I'm trying to reconcile which is the more heinous crime:
Courtney's supposed attempts to 'off' Kurt
or
Hole's entire recording and live career
It's a toughie :\ohwell: but Hole really were shite.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: I'm trying to reconcile which is the more heinous crime:
Courtney's supposed attempts to 'off' Kurt
or
Hole's entire recording and live career
It's a toughie :\ohwell: but Hole really were shite.
they had one good song: violet.
but yes, everything else was a supernova of aural suffering.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: I'm trying to reconcile which is the more heinous crime:
Courtney's supposed attempts to 'off' Kurt
or
Hole's entire recording and live career
It's a toughie :\ohwell: but Hole really were shite.
Some of the early stuff wasn't bad.
One of the theories mentioned in the book was that Kurt wrote a good proportion of Hole's stuff.
And if you ever see the documentary, watch Courtney's da being interviewed. He plugs his book about being manager of the Grateful Dead.
I think I finally got around to buying a copy of Nevermind twelve years after it came out...and I can recommend about the first five or six songs before it all goes downhill
I think the hype surrounding his death turned the band from the leaders of a disputably short-lived movement into icons of dubious status. Bands were doing more interesting and better versions of what they achieved gold status with, years before they hit it big. Compare Nirvana with REM, for example: Michael Stipe and company were fusing country-rock with indie and making their own fiercely unique music, and they had a certain degree of mainstream success prior to '91. I can still listen to REM (and thankfully they're still around, if not exactly making music on a par with their best material). Whereas Nirvana pretty much stays on my CD rack, untouched. 
Give me REM any day over Kurt "Saint" Cobain (whose death was tragic, but a boost to MTV and the music press)
Taboo # 7 wrote: I think the hype surrounding his death turned the band from the leaders of a disputably short-lived movement into icons of dubious status. Bands were doing more interesting and better versions of what they achieved gold status with, years before they hit it big. Compare Nirvana with REM, for example: Michael Stipe and company were fusing country-rock with indie and making their own fiercely unique music, and they had a certain degree of mainstream success prior to '91. I can still listen to REM (and thankfully they're still around, if not exactly making music on a par with their best material). Whereas Nirvana pretty much stays on my CD rack, untouched.
Give me REM any day over Kurt "Saint" Cobain (whose death was tragic, but a boost to MTV and the music press)
Fantastic completely agree.
There's a book in the Student Store called Love & Death, which challenges Kurt's alleged suicide.
Christopher Owens wrote: Never got REM. Always found them boring.
Monster's not bad.
I note you single out R.E.M.'s one album where loud, distorted guitars are very much at the fore.
Must every good band or good album have a shedload of loud distorted guitars behind them?! No offence Chris, but all the bands you've been championing of late (on BCD anyway) are heavy metal behemoths. I.e. lots of loud guitar, lots of heroically loud lyrics and lots of crotch grabbing.
For instance, I really rate R.E.M.'s Reveal album; very commercial sounding but I think the tunes are well put together and very pop. I'm not going to dismiss the album because there aren't any grinding guitars on it! Mind you, I do prefer Dance/electronic music over clumsy guitar shclock any day which is just my "thing" I suppose
Not to say I don't enjoy a good guitar jam of course but I like to hear what's being played rather than the fuzz which is arguably what most of what metal is; an anonymous noise with shouting behind it. "Intelligent Metal" is one great big oxymoron.
I never realize this macabre anniversary-Nirvana were good for their time. I listen to "Nevermind" and hear LIFE!!! it was my music. My parents generation did not make this stuff..
and ok "Lithium" will always be a fave "I'm so horny/that's OK my will is good"
I know where Nirvana came from but their impact was big. I have lived long enough to have friends where I wondered how long they would live. Either through thrill seeking, irresponsibility or self-destructive behavior.
No one "knows" Cobain-not even himself. He was just a guy-not a saint. That Kurt was so depressed that he could not see the possibilities of life. I have been that depressed and it is not a good place to be.
My big sister told me yesterday that she is pregnant with her first child. I am so happy for her hubby and her. Conflicting that with Cobain being dead like that just makes me sad
The kids who worship Kurt Cobain do not get it. I don't understand why he did what he did and stopped wondering a long time ago.
Christopher Owens wrote: reminded me of how powerful the idea of But it showed that even today, people still believe in him,
sensationalizing emotions is a lucrative and empty place to go. Any book with four stars of Mystery and Intrigue is a way has put a dollar sign on the only things that that can't be tangible. But. the huge but is that if it has gotten anybody to believe in a morning sun & look beyond their immediate circle then it's a success. New Order did it with Temptation -to try and break this circle that been placed.. Joy Division did it. other bands / music/ Art / Sport too. anything that is beyond a sevice industry. but then all jobs keep things progressing..
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: . is your nickname from the Revenge b-side?
hey, right. Those guys at the job a few posts up .. they tried to sell me on Ministry etc. I countered with our lot here. JD, NO etc. ahh.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote:
I note you single out R.E.M.'s one album where loud, distorted guitars are very much at the fore.
Must every good band or good album have a shedload of loud distorted guitars behind them?! No offence Chris, but all the bands you've been championing of late (on BCD anyway) are heavy metal behemoths. I.e. lots of loud guitar, lots of heroically loud lyrics and lots of crotch grabbing.
That's because I've been listening to a lot of metal lately. I'm sure you go through phases yourself in what you're listening to. And no, not every band must have ' a shedload of loud distorted guitars behind them'. But I like that. You said yourself that you prefer 'Dance/electronic music over clumsy guitar shclock any day'. Tastes differ.
I'm not trying to be funny here, but is there something genuinely wrong with being a metal fan? One poster said a while back that they didn't know how I could be into NO, and like metal. What bollocks.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: For instance, I really rate R.E.M.'s Reveal album; very commercial sounding but I think the tunes are well put together and very pop. I'm not going to dismiss the album because there aren't any grinding guitars on it!
KT Tunstall doesn't use 'grinding guitars'. Neither do Love, Echo and the Bunnymen, U2, Snow Patrol, Elton John, JD/NO, The Doors.
To be honest, even before I got into metal, I never got REM. An uncle of mine is a huge fan and he lent me Document, Automatic... and Reveal. While there are good songs on them (One I Love, Sidewinder, Imitation of Life and Disappear) I generally wasn't impressed with them. Wouldn't go so far as to say they bored me, but they just didn't leave an impression on me. Even the tunes I liked were pretty forgetable.
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote: Not to say I don't enjoy a good guitar jam of course but I like to hear what's being played rather than the fuzz which is arguably what most of what metal is; an anonymous noise with shouting behind it. "Intelligent Metal" is one great big oxymoron.
That's the sort of attitude I hate about indie kids: dismissing metal as 'stupid'. Metal has a power and intensity to it that a lot of NME approved bands simply don't have. So they dismiss it as daft.
Cambo admitted that he has hated metal for most of his life. Now bear in mind that he likes electronic acts like The Orb etc, he said that he actually listened to the likes of Metallica, Sepultura etc and said that he could appreciate the music, maybe not get misty eyed over it, but there was some good stuff there. That's the sort of reaction most people who happily dismiss metal get when they actually listen to the stuff.
IMHO, of course.
14 -K wrote: sensationalizing emotions is a lucrative and empty place to go. Any book with four stars of Mystery and Intrigue is a way has put a dollar sign on the only things that that can't be tangible. But. the huge but is that if it has gotten anybody to believe in a morning sun & look beyond their immediate circle then it's a success. New Order did it with Temptation -to try and break this circle that been placed.. Joy Division did it. other bands / music/ Art / Sport too. anything that is beyond a sevice industry. but then all jobs keep things progressing..
Very well said.
I saw them live and thought they were awesome. Bleach was a great album. Nevermind fucked them up. and In Utero was crap.
the little grunge babes in sub-pop t shirts - loved that little time period in the early 90's
Oz.
also seen likes of Breeders, Sonic Youth, Mudhoney, Soudgarden, Ramones, Cramps, Smithereens and erm...Transvision Vamp there.
But was i all grunged up at the time?
Was i fuck!!!
just liked the music mannnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!
CORRRRR!
Christopher Owens wrote:
[brown]alistair[/brown] wrote:
I note you single out R.E.M.'s one album where loud, distorted guitars are very much at the fore..
That's the sort of attitude I hate about indie kids: dismissing metal as 'stupid'. Metal has a power and intensity to it that a lot of NME approved bands simply don't have. So they dismiss it as daft.
12-09-08.
hating that part of the Indie attitude is probably one of the strongest arguements to dismiss most things labelled as Indie. If an arguement was ever needed. Shame that 'pure Indie like some of the Sundance Film Fest can be just sso good. And the idea behind it and the exposure the films can get is excellent.
Intelligent Metal- Honest Politician..different tastes different place to be. same with Jazz, Blues, Classical etc. takes a huge skill to do it well. but again different tastes & to think where/ what years, whatever it came out of.. all under 12- Years- On.
J.A.K wrote: Oz. just liked the music mannnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!
the Doors could be soo bleak. another could've been so much more.
