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What a cunt. In my eyes, this guy is up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Arafat and a bunch of other cunts.
It amazes me that I cannot go anywhere without seeing some twat wearing a t shirt with his image emblazoned on it. Why do people do this? And why do people worship someone who has
a) been dead for 39 years
b) responsible for setting up the first concentration camp in Cuba
and
c) responsible for the deaths of thousads of people.
The mind boggles. Truly it does.
the thing is, if i walked through Manchester with a t shirt with a big picture of Ariel Sharon on it i'd likely get murdered by the jobless lot who stand around town all day waving a flag of a country they arent even from.
Soceity continues to edge ever further to total collapse.
Yes but why would show your allegiance to a genocidal cunt like Guevara. Its like supporting Robert Mugabe.
I do not think the Che Guevara t-shirts holders want to show this aspect of the man.
If I wave a French flag, I do not want to show the others I am ok with nazi-like torture in Algeria, Vichy government which send Jews to concentration camps, Napoleonic wars...
What other aspect is there? The man had anyone who disagreed with his ideas murdered. Sums it all up really!
...I like them more than the current criminal leaders of states like Turkmenistan or Kirgisistan (german spelling)...
...the governement is criminal to their own people and the U.S. gov knows that, nevertheless they still support them because of their oil...
It depends which side you are on... Every political leaders has blood on his hands... and if you are not ready to have some on your hands... then, no chance to become famous in history...
What makes me smile with Che Guevara is that he was communist and that a lot of capitalists earn money thanks to his picture. Funny trick of history, isn't it ?
It's all about image, really. And if it shocks you (from their point of view), even better. The punks did it with the Nazi imagery (which they were probably not as ignorant of as these latter-day Guevara-heads are of their hero's legacy). 
well firstly i would like 2 say that someone who is so concerned about these thousands of deaths has a display pic of a nuclear explosion in the shape of an up urs hand gesture, how ironic i must say.
in any revoloution blood must be spilt but this was a revoloution for good not jst another shitty war in the world taht has no reason and no good outcome so why not complain about one of them.
che guevara never targeted people for their race or religion only the opresssors of cuba unlike hitler who did target people for their religion so never ever compare the two again.
the main point is that the people of cuba and south america were forced to work for such pay in such conditions that they were in effect in the situation of a slave camp much like the gulags that stalin set up. che guevara set free an entire nation from this oppression so now he is worshipped in cuba.
i think the millions of people and generations since who hav benefitted from this revoloution is worth the lives of these people who died especially as they were supporting this slave labour like conditions.
i am proud whenever i wear my che guevara t-shirt and believa that people who accuse him are eithere facist or just ignorant
Like I said, it's more about shock than support of actual revolutionary ideals. And whether or not the revolution in Cuba was a positive or negative in world history (believe me, there's plenty that can be said for both viewpoints), most of the kids who wear these shirts couldn't tell you about what brought it about and what the results were.
Plus, I think the relatives of Guevara's victims might have something to say about people embracing his image
i am going to give a thumbs up to che. i am well read in history, and i believe that che and fidel overthrew a corupt government that did not support its people. the problem is communist rhetoric is only good for revolutions not sustainability.
Taboo # 7 wrote: Like I said, it's more about shock than support of actual revolutionary ideals.
You live in one mightily conservative country if da yoot can get any shock value whatsoever for simply wearing a Che t-shirt!
FrogChorus wrote: Let's bare in mind that most of these twats in t-shirts havn't got a fuckin clue who he is!
i totally fookin' agree with you there. these people where the shirt and does it not even know the story behind. they're bunch of sorry ass, wannabes, bandwagon, trend ass followers when it's not even cool. 
He had some positive ideas, particularly those concerning empowerment to the working class and a united Latin America, which I as a Latin American take to heart.
However, I think he aligned himself with the wrong people (Castro, Stalin) and as a result did some regrettable things. I don't think of him as a hero considering he's responsible for many deaths. I wouldn't wear a shirt with his image on it. He had some interesting ideas, though.
Fire-arm wrote: well firstly i would like 2 say that someone who is so concerned about these thousands of deaths has a display pic of a nuclear explosion in the shape of an up urs hand gesture, how ironic i must say.
in any revoloution blood must be spilt but this was a revoloution for good not jst another shitty war in the world taht has no reason and no good outcome so why not complain about one of them.
che guevara never targeted people for their race or religion only the opresssors of cuba unlike hitler who did target people for their religion so never ever compare the two again.
the main point is that the people of cuba and south america were forced to work for such pay in such conditions that they were in effect in the situation of a slave camp much like the gulags that stalin set up. che guevara set free an entire nation from this oppression so now he is worshipped in cuba.
i think the millions of people and generations since who hav benefitted from this revoloution is worth the lives of these people who died especially as they were supporting this slave labour like conditions.
i am proud whenever i wear my che guevara t-shirt and believa that people who accuse him are eithere facist or just ignorant
What a load of complete bollocks. Although it does make me laugh sometimes when teenagers are taken in by it all.
However, you are right. Good old Che never did target people on grounds of race or religion, he was indiscriminate in his mass murder!
I think (I wish I was wrong!) some people would wear t-sirts with stalin or other cunt on it if that was trendy. The point is to think using a head not a television.
Uncle Liam wrote: What a cunt. In my eyes, this guy is up there with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Arafat and a bunch of other cunts.
It amazes me that I cannot go anywhere without seeing some twat wearing a t shirt with his image emblazoned on it. Why do people do this? And why do people worship someone who has
a) been dead for 39 years
b) responsible for setting up the first concentration camp in Cuba
and
c) responsible for the deaths of thousads of people.
The mind boggles. Truly it does.
Che Guevara t-shirts???? You just don't like students , do you Liam?????
Liam, I'm sure you could come up with a long list of people who need putting up against a wall and shooting. Che's list was different to yours, but he was a left-wing idealist and you're a snotty little Tory.
I'm not wearing a Liam T-Shirt though 
Alright I will. But it will be a fashion statement, in no way implying affinity with your politics or taste in music.
Diamond White wrote: Liam, I'm sure you could come up with a long list of people who need putting up against a wall and shooting. Che's list was different to yours, but he was a left-wing idealist and you're a snotty little Tory.
I'm not wearing a Liam T-Shirt though
Can I have 5 Liam T-shirts? One for me the Mrs,and each of the little boats...
Don't suppose they come in red,do they?
Che Guevara was a bit of a rent-a-revolutionary was he not?
An Argentinian who could'nt muster the support in his native land,so went to Cuba and became secretary of state under Castro,but got bored with the cushy life and went off fighting other causes,living in harsh circumstances along the way.He must have been sincere in his beliefs at least.Notable fellow...Hardly warrants a fuckin t-shirt in his honour mind
Who's he think he is? Morrisey
Boatraceface wrote: Hardly warrants a fuckin t-shirt in his honour mind
Must be an early contender for Post of the Week 
Surely the only REAL reason they wear them is because they have been watching re-runs of Citizen Smith?
Is it the photo of the Stones fan in the Observer Music magazine that's got you wining about this?
Excellent article, whatever Hibster is about to say!
Diamond White wrote: Is it the photo of the Stones fan in the Observer Music magazine that's got you wining about this?
Liam?! Reading the Observer?!
Nah, something doesn't quite add up there.
I think Kershaw is trying to rob Liam of his King of the Cunts NOOL title. Judging by his 'jokes' about Jewish people on t'other thread, I think he may have snatched the crown.
The thieving scouse cunt.
J.A.K wrote: are you offended?
you do look remarkably jewish after all.
Mate, you're offensively boring. PC-baiting is the last refuge of the braindead. It's like a schoolkid flashing his cock, but without the style.
You do know you're probably gonna get banned?
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: I think Kershaw is trying to rob Liam of his King of the Cunts NOOL title. Judging by his 'jokes' about Jewish people on t'other thread, I think he may have snatched the crown.
The thieving scouse cunt.
Well, at least i'm entertaining. But that crown is something i'm quite proud of, and i'm going to fight for it dammit!
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:
J.A.K wrote: are you offended?
you do look remarkably jewish after all.
Mate, you're offensively boring. PC-baiting is the last refuge of the braindead. It's like a schoolkid flashing his cock, but without the style.
You do know you're probably gonna get banned?
cheers faggy dancer. i'll take it on board.
I'm probably a bit late now, but I agree with the posters who said that most people who wear Che shirts have no fucking idea who he was. I also think it's more of a fashion thing than anything else. Next year the kids will be wearing Buddha t-shirts.
Che wasn't all bad. He grew up under pretty good conditions but saw how destitute the masses were and tried to do something about it. He did have some miserable failures though, which is perhaps why someone here called him a rent-a-revolutionary, or something like that. I'm sure as hell not gonna be wearing his shirt, but when I do see someone with his shirt, all it brings to me is a little smile.
Shellshocker wrote: I'm probably a bit late now, but I agree with the posters who said that most people who wear Che shirts have no fucking idea who he was. I also think it's more of a fashion thing than anything else. Next year the kids will be wearing Buddha t-shirts.
Che wasn't all bad. He grew up under pretty good conditions but saw how destitute the masses were and tried to do something about it. He did have some miserable failures though, which is perhaps why someone here called him a rent-a-revolutionary, or something like that. I'm sure as hell not gonna be wearing his shirt, but when I do see someone with his shirt, all it brings to me is a little smile.
Actually, around here, I'm seeing kids wearing shirts that have a picture of Buddha on it and written below it is "Rub my belly."
Fire-arm wrote:
the main point is that the people of cuba and south america were forced to work for such pay in such conditions that they were in effect in the situation of a slave camp much like the gulags that stalin set up. che guevara set free an entire nation from this oppression so now he is worshipped in cuba.
i think the millions of people and generations since who hav benefitted from this revoloution is worth the lives of these people who died especially as they were supporting this slave labour like conditions.
Right. Cuba is kicking all sorts of economic a$$ these days. BTW, if I were Cuban, I could travel freely to any other country I wanted to, right? Or, I could purchase a satellite dish and watch what ever I wanted to, right? How about if I wanted to set up my own blog or weekly paper? How far do you think I would get?
My Dad was there last year and reckons it's a perfectly liberal place where the people are happy and proud of where they're from.
They'd be a lot more successful economically if America lifted their sanctions and stopped bullying them.
Tex wrote:
Right. Cuba is kicking all sorts of economic a$$ these days. BTW, if I were Cuban, I could travel freely to any other country I wanted to, right? Or, I could purchase a satellite dish and watch what ever I wanted to, right? How about if I wanted to set up my own blog or weekly paper? How far do you think I would get?
Knob. If I were Cuban could I expect a good standard of healthcare no matter what my social status/income was? Could I expect to be literate (note this also applied 40 years ago putting most of the world to shame)? Could I expect to sit on my fat arse stuffing my face, drive a big car that uses up stacks of fuel ('cause I can), stick two fingers up to the rest of the world (most of which I am completely ignorant of) then strut round like school bully stealing the other kids oil money?
Know where I'd rather be.
James Thomas wrote:
Tex wrote:
Right. Cuba is kicking all sorts of economic a$$ these days. BTW, if I were Cuban, I could travel freely to any other country I wanted to, right? Or, I could purchase a satellite dish and watch what ever I wanted to, right? How about if I wanted to set up my own blog or weekly paper? How far do you think I would get?
Knob. If I were Cuban could I expect a good standard of healthcare no matter what my social status/income was? Could I expect to be literate (note this also applied 40 years ago putting most of the world to shame)? Could I expect to sit on my fat arse stuffing my face, drive a big car that uses up stacks of fuel ('cause I can), stick two fingers up to the rest of the world (most of which I am completely ignorant of) then strut round like school bully stealing the other kids oil money?
Know where I'd rather be.
You'd rather live in Cuba than America?? 
We'll have to take up a collection for your one way ticket.
Diamond White wrote: My Dad was there last year and reckons it's a perfectly liberal place where the people are happy and proud of where they're from.
They'd be a lot more successful economically if America lifted their sanctions and stopped bullying them.
I think it is obvious to anyone with a brain that America's sanctions against Cuba aren't working at all. In fact, I think they're actually made Castro stronger. I used to be unsure if the sanctions were helping or hurting, and I figured that after the USSR collapsed, there'd be revolution in Cuban and Castro would be overthrown. Didn't happen, ain't gonna happen. Anyone that think the sanctions might still work is just being stubborn. The only way Castro is giving up power is if Doctor Nick (Simpsons reference) is his surgeon. It would seem to make a lot of sense to lift the sanctions, it would probably improve the lot of the Cuban people. Why don't we do it then? Might be partly stubbornness, but I don't think that the lobbying and political influence of Cuban-Americans can be underestimates. Cuban-Americans are generally affluent, and they vote! They are well organized too, and nobody hates Castro more than Cuban-Americans, as the dancing in the streets of Miami over news of his demise shows.
Tex wrote:
Right. Cuba is kicking all sorts of economic a$$ these days. BTW, if I were Cuban, I could travel freely to any other country I wanted to, right? Or, I could purchase a satellite dish and watch what ever I wanted to, right? How about if I wanted to set up my own blog or weekly paper? How far do you think I would get?
Of course communism has its flaws.. for us it's unthinkable that people can't travel and they need to keep the wealth in their own country so the system would work... nobody would go for that.
But have you actually been to Cuba? It's not as worst as they make you think it is... I'm quite sure most people are better there than being poor in most of the G7 countries.
Democracy and capitalism is good for the sucessful, but not for those who aren't.
People there don't have to pay for doctors and education... can't say the same in the USA as far as I know.
Yes it has its flaws, we all know them, but you also have to appreciate the good sides.
I was pretty impressed to know that Cuba could actually afford to send doctors in Venezuela to get oil in return.. Gee, in Canada we are badly missing doctors...
And of course, Cuba would probably be better without the economic limitations due to the US policies...
Visiting Jamaica last june, I can tell you those people in Cuba are a lot better the way they are than the poors in Jamaica... or many carabeans countries for that instance, people who live in places worst than our cottages where we store our landmowers!
James Thomas wrote:
Tex wrote:
Right. Cuba is kicking all sorts of economic a$$ these days. BTW, if I were Cuban, I could travel freely to any other country I wanted to, right? Or, I could purchase a satellite dish and watch what ever I wanted to, right? How about if I wanted to set up my own blog or weekly paper? How far do you think I would get?
Knob. If I were Cuban could I expect a good standard of healthcare no matter what my social status/income was? Could I expect to be literate (note this also applied 40 years ago putting most of the world to shame)? Could I expect to sit on my fat arse stuffing my face, drive a big car that uses up stacks of fuel ('cause I can), stick two fingers up to the rest of the world (most of which I am completely ignorant of) then strut round like school bully stealing the other kids oil money?
Know where I'd rather be.
I seem to have struck a chord, James.
Good standard of health care? By what standard? I have a friend who is a doctor and travels every year to Cuba (I think it's with Doctors Without Borders or somethign like that). He says the doctors their are good and well menaing but that they just don't have the basic resources to properly care for the population. He says he packs his suitcases full of supplies every year beacuse the docs in Cuba need them so badly. So, why don't you tap the breaks on the glories of Cuban health care.
As for the rest of your post, I just can't help but wonder how the Fates have so conspired against the rest of the wolrd....
Tex wrote:
Good standard of health care? By what standard? I have a friend who is a doctor and travels every year to Cuba (I think it's with Doctors Without Borders or somethign like that). He says the doctors their are good and well menaing but that they just don't have the basic resources to properly care for the population. He says he packs his suitcases full of supplies every year beacuse the docs in Cuba need them so badly. So, why don't you tap the breaks on the glories of Cuban health care.
The life expectancy at birth is a reasonable way of measuring the standard of care.
Cuba: 77.41 years US: 77.85 years
Suppose you need all that extra care to make up for all the pies.
Tex wrote:
So, why don't you tap the breaks on the glories of Cuban health care.
What does that mean? Does it mean like tap the breaks in a car?
And another thing - this thread would be far cooler if it was called Che Ger fucking Vara.
uncle liam jst because im a teenager it doesnt mean i havnt researched the topic like an adult which i hav. through many books and other sources with no influance i hav made my mind up.
in your reply of sayin wot a load of bollocks you made no educated reply to what i had 2 say to prove it was a load of bollocks thus proving yourself wrong and most likely the ignorant person i was talking about, anyways u also seem like the stuck up facist that i would expect 2 b following around the BNP.
che only targeted military officer and people who commited bigger crimes against the people so u cant say that these murders as u call them. u hav 2 remember taht these people even castrated ches brother jst for rising up.
i know theres plenty of ppl wearing his t shirts without knowing hu he is and that winds me up but like trendy ppl wearing rolling stones tshirts and never knowing who they are.
Fire-arm wrote: uncle liam jst because im a teenager it doesnt mean i havnt researched the topic like an adult which i hav. through many books and other sources with no influance i hav made my mind up.
in your reply of sayin wot a load of bollocks you made no educated reply to what i had 2 say to prove it was a load of bollocks thus proving yourself wrong and most likely the ignorant person i was talking about, anyways u also seem like the stuck up facist that i would expect 2 b following around the BNP.
che only targeted military officer and people who commited bigger crimes against the people so u cant say that these murders as u call them. u hav 2 remember taht these people even castrated ches brother jst for rising up.
i know theres plenty of ppl wearing his t shirts without knowing hu he is and that winds me up but like trendy ppl wearing rolling stones tshirts and never knowing who they are.
People wear Rolling Stones t-shirts??! :barf: Egads, now I'm offended!
Just a wee note to these well read literate historians who are throwing the words communist/socialist around like confetti, check any DECENT dictionary for the meaning of the words, it'll say "a STATELESS CLASSLESS society, were production is: from each according to ability to each according to need". No such society has EVER existed and the notion of a Socialist/Communist State is an oxymoron. :) Rosa Luxembourg, among many others, immediately condemned the October revolution as non-communist/socialist, these so-called socialist/communist "states" were/are in fact state capitalist (as opposed to the usual private capitalist mode). If you want to swing in trees REFUSE to live upon your knees! PS gist noticed that Union Jack next to my name, can anyone tell me how to get rid of it?
It's true that comminist and socialist are not the same thing. The Soviet Union wasn't really a communist state by the true definition. At least that's what I learned in school. Oh well, po-tay-to, po-tah-to.
Please, please check any decent dictionary! There is NO DIFFERENCE between Communist/Socialist, the notion that there was/is was a fucking LIE dreamt up by that arsehole Lenin and compounded by many others since. Both refer to a stateless/classless society.
i won´t enter in this discussion because it´s as useless as discussing which political system is better. we just won´t agree, ever. what i will say is that you have to understand political processes according to the space/time they´re being produced. for people in USA or England it´s hard to understand the cuban problem because first you have to understand the cuban way of living, which is totally different from what you´re used to live everyday. latin american countries in general have a particular way of living that separates them from the rest. not better, not worst, different. and believe me, we´re still trying to figure it out ourselves, less can i expect you to understand it. having said that my opinion is that neither the ones who wear Che Guevara´s t-shirts nor the ones who condemn him for being a communist or whatever really understand the situation. i´ve been to Cuba and i´ve seen it, i´ve talked to people there, i´ve learned a lot about them. i live in a latin american country, i know our history and our problems. Guevara was my countryman so all the information about him is fresh here and it´s there for me to read it, which i did. but that doesn´t make me an expert, it´s hard to make a serious opinion even having all the elements. what it´s true is that Guevara wanted the revolution in latin america. he went to all different countries before Cuba and before that he went to other ones as well. revolutions like these are always violent so questioning that is like questioning the sense of the word "revolution". was he right? i don´t know. he did try to change things in favor of a new political order in the region. was it the better political system? i don´t know and probably never will. Cuba became the only country of the region that developed that idea. if they succeeded in all the region now we were talking about other situation. but it didn´t happen so we won´t know. instead we had militar coups payed by the US government so all the communist seeds were erased from the face of the region. thousands of disappeared people, thousands of people murdered, all the economies collapsed and 30/40 years later we´re still paying those consequences. so the alternative wasn´t good if you ask me. so does the cuban process sound appealing? why not? it didn´t work the opposite way for us! maybe for you guys it did work so that´s why you can´t fully understand the situation. i´m not blaming anyone, it´s just the way it is
Diamond White wrote:
Tex wrote:
So, why don't you tap the breaks on the glories of Cuban health care.
What does that mean? Does it mean like tap the breaks in a car?
Yes.
James Thomas wrote:
Tex wrote:
Good standard of health care? By what standard? I have a friend who is a doctor and travels every year to Cuba (I think it's with Doctors Without Borders or somethign like that). He says the doctors their are good and well menaing but that they just don't have the basic resources to properly care for the population. He says he packs his suitcases full of supplies every year beacuse the docs in Cuba need them so badly. So, why don't you tap the breaks on the glories of Cuban health care.
The life expectancy at birth is a reasonable way of measuring the standard of care.
Cuba: 77.41 years US: 77.85 years
Suppose you need all that extra care to make up for all the pies.
While you're busy throwing stones, why don't you regale the class with how many stones you weigh.
Burt Reynolds wrote: The differences between socialism and communism
Exactly the ROT I'd expect from some left winger who's never read Marx in his life. Marx/Engles (the "fathers" of Socialism/Communism) NEVER, ANYWHERE made a distinction in anything they wrote between Socialism & Communism. The idea that Socialism is/was a "transitional" stage between capitalism and communism was a lie first put about by that bastard Lenin to justify his anti-democratic cancelling of the elections held shortly after the Oct. revolution. To paraphrase the communist manifesto (1848) "the time for revolutions led by cliques is over. The working class AS A WHOLE must emancipate THEMSELVES"! Or "Only sheep need leaders".
MIMX wrote: Please, please check any decent dictionary! There is NO DIFFERENCE between Communist/Socialist, the notion that there was/is was a fucking LIE dreamt up by that arsehole Lenin and compounded by many others since. Both refer to a stateless/classless society.
I will merely refer you to Burt Reynold's link above.
Shellshocker wrote:
MIMX wrote: Please, please check any decent dictionary! There is NO DIFFERENCE between Communist/Socialist, the notion that there was/is was a fucking LIE dreamt up by that arsehole Lenin and compounded by many others since. Both refer to a stateless/classless society.
I will merely refer you to Burt Reynold's link above.
Not, by any stretch of the imagination a DECENT DICTIONARY! I will merely refer you to my post above, being a guy who has read Marx/Engles for well over 25yrs,(as well as many other political philosophers).
MIMX wrote: will merely refer you to my post above, being a guy who has read Marx/Engles for well over 25yrs,(as well as many other political philosophers).
You mean Engels don't you?.. I can't believe you mispelled this political philosopher's name, that you have been studying for supposedly 25 years. You even mispelt it in two different posts. Idiot.
Fire-arm wrote: uncle liam jst because im a teenager it doesnt mean i havnt researched the topic like an adult which i hav. through many books and other sources with no influance i hav made my mind up.
in your reply of sayin wot a load of bollocks you made no educated reply to what i had 2 say to prove it was a load of bollocks thus proving yourself wrong and most likely the ignorant person i was talking about, anyways u also seem like the stuck up facist that i would expect 2 b following around the BNP.
che only targeted military officer and people who commited bigger crimes against the people so u cant say that these murders as u call them. u hav 2 remember taht these people even castrated ches brother jst for rising up.
i know theres plenty of ppl wearing his t shirts without knowing hu he is and that winds me up but like trendy ppl wearing rolling stones tshirts and never knowing who they are.
Firstly, I'd rather be a stuck up fascist than a stuck up communist.
Anyway, I presume you dont know about Che Guevara setting up the first political prisoner camp in Cuba? And the fact that many Cubans lived in complete squalor while this man lapped it up in his own palace? Or the thousands killed in Cuba and across South America?
But why let silly little facts like these get in the way of a good revolution?
Oh, and by the way, it "to" not "2" and "What" rather than "wot." Pity you didnt brush up on your spelling while you were doing this so called research.
Uncle Liam wrote: Oh, and by the way, it "to" not "2" and "What" rather than "wot." Pity you didnt brush up on your spelling while you were doing this so called research.
yeah and how about "it's" rather than "it" or "didn't" rather than "didnt"?
Damn fine thread, Uncle Liam. I suppose people like Che because he had some genuinely good impulses like uplifting the oppressed. It's appealing in its way, you can't deny the goodness of that impulse. But for him it was solely an impulse - the way he went about trying to improve people's lot was as horrific as Stalin and Pol Pot and all other dictators - he helped make Cuba what it is - a place that imprisions journalists, uses force to punish dissenters, and enriches a few top cronies and Fidel. Someone earlier (sorry I didn't note your name) said latin americas have a "different way," tyhan us gringos and therefore che was better suited and we'll never understand - then how come his "revolution" in Bolivia was an abject failure? none of his fellow latin americans joined him then. I think we can argue one system is better than another - Democracy and capitlaism tempered by humane impulses (or the judeo-christian ethic if you will) is better than communism or muslim extremeist states. I can see why people would wear Che t-shiorts - I wore a lenin T-shirt in thre 1990s because it was campy. When you really think about it, Lenin was a monster too. I think what Che, Lenin, and the wanna be bombers in Engerland don't get is that people want to be free to make their own choices, not have a system foisted upon them, or ripped away from them, because some intellectual or relifious fanatic thinks it's for the better. I rise and fall on my own merits and - though others have advantages better than mine, is't that best for everyone? BTW, Dracula's Castle is a fantastic track, no matter what the skkeptics say(just trying to keep the New Order in here somewhere)
I prefer Che Hooky.
And I believe we should make that a t-shirt... ;)
Profits could actually pay for a computer for Alejo ;) if we get the right of the picture of course.
Believe it or not, for ages I didn't know who was on those pictures... I thought it was Jimmy Hendrix 
Ah... culture can change a man sometimes 
Uncle Liam wrote: Anyway, I presume you dont know about Che Guevara setting up the first political prisoner camp in Cuba?
Liam, get a grip. You're repeating facts like these are supposed to mean anything. We, as a nation, invented the concentration camp well before everyone else, didn't we? To sort out them pesky Boers in Seth Efrika.
Not very nice, are we. Ooh, and so Che did some bad things too.
And, in case you missed it, we, as a nation, invented the concentration camp well before everyone else, didn't we? To sort out them pesky Boers in Seth Efrika.
So, what does it matter?
Supposed to break down and cry now cos I'm so ashamed to be English? And left other nations use it as a stick to beat me with. Am. I. fcuk.
If Liam was catapulted into charge there'd be a Concentration Camp in every major city by the end of the week.
Who'd be in your concentration camp, Liam?
I could do with a spell in concentration camp.
I cant concentrate for more than ten....
christ look at the arse on her.
Love United Hate Glazer wrote: I could do with a spell in concentration camp.
I cant concentrate for more than ten....
christ look at the arse on her.
El Jarvo wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote: Anyway, I presume you dont know about Che Guevara setting up the first political prisoner camp in Cuba?
Liam, get a grip. You're repeating facts like these are supposed to mean anything. We, as a nation, invented the concentration camp well before everyone else, didn't we? To sort out them pesky Boers in Seth Efrika.
Al - this is BCD. To improve your BCD credibility you MUST be able to repeate, ad nauseum, endless meaningless factoids. The person with the most factoids (invariably culled from google two minutes before) wins at BCD.
It's like Top Trumps. Only not as much fun.
mimx - simply remove the country from your profile to drop the flag.
col - not saying it wasn't a good article, just it was a pants interview, was there even a question in it?
i liked the motorcycle diaries & respect what he did in early life.
little more worried about people that support hulk hogan on thier t-shirts myself mind.
Love United Hate Glazer wrote:
Gary Fuckin Neville?
Che Guevara and De Bussy to a disco beat... (cant belive we`re 3 pages in and this is still unsaid?)
Spotnick wrote: I prefer Che Hooky.
And I believe we should make that a t-shirt... ;)
Profits could actually pay for a computer for Alejo ;) if we get the right of the picture of course.
Believe it or not, for ages I didn't know who was on those pictures... I thought it was Jimmy Hendrix
Ah... culture can change a man sometimes
aye, i´m thinking about making a t-shirt of this for the Arg concert 
MIMX wrote:
Burt Reynolds wrote: The differences between socialism and communism
Exactly the ROT I'd expect from some left winger who's never read Marx in his life. Marx/Engles (the "fathers" of Socialism/Communism) NEVER, ANYWHERE made a distinction in anything they wrote between Socialism & Communism. The idea that Socialism is/was a "transitional" stage between capitalism and communism was a lie first put about by that bastard Lenin to justify his anti-democratic cancelling of the elections held shortly after the Oct. revolution. To paraphrase the communist manifesto (1848) "the time for revolutions led by cliques is over. The working class AS A WHOLE must emancipate THEMSELVES"! Or "Only sheep need leaders".
go back and study your european history, dear. marx and engels didn't invent either socialism nor communism. socialism existed as a nascent political ideal in the early-19th century; these men saw socialism as a way to gradually transform society. you call this a lie? go back and read early 19th century socialist writings, my friend. fourier and proudhon are good places to start. the later socialists, impatient with the organic approach, advocated direct action in order to create a 'utopian' state. communism was certainly not the brainchild of marx, either. ever heard of the paris commune?
edit: oh, no! this post might not be humble enough for martin fradley! what shall i do??
Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: because most of us ARE frigging TWATS!!!
I know I am!
Speak for yourself. I consider myself more of a toss pot.... tosspot... you get the picture.
Johnny wrote: i'm more offended by people with "neworderonline.com" on their t shirts.Tossers
