Tories Have a Nine Point Lead

Guardian Poll

So in the end it may be that their refusal to say anything that may upset anyone, the very thing that brought New Labour to power in the first place, brings their reign to an end.

Their failure to admit the real reasons for the Iraq war was the first killer blow. And now, this word-trickery in refusing to admit that the terrorist that threaten us are acting in response to our foreign policy.

By refusing to admit that it's the actions of our government provokes the terrorists, he is throwing away the main weapon against them - defiance.

The implication is that if the terrorism did have something to do with certain policies, we would need to change those policies to suit the terrorists.

I never thought I'd say this, but we need someone with Thatcher's point of view "We will not negotiate with terrorists".

This government has done wonderful things for the country during their term of office.

What we need now is world leadership to repair this countries damaged image.

And, according to 40% of those polled, David Cameron is the man

ALL TORIES SHOULD DIE!!!

SLOWLY!!!!!

HORRIBLE TWATS!!!

Tories =

I`d like to think coming from a working class background,that i should vote Labour. However the way they are they dont deserve the vote. Give the BNP a go i say,they cant do any worse...

El Jarvo wrote:

steveone wrote: I`d like to think coming from a working class background,that i should vote Labour. However the way they are they dont deserve the vote. Give the BNP a go i say,they cant do any worse...

Er, you're taking the piss, surely?

Given the recent tone of things round here, probably not.

Polls are a load of piss. There aren't enough stupid people in this country prepared to go out and vote the Tories back in.

Er, surely???????

El Jarvo wrote:

steveone wrote: I`d like to think coming from a working class background,that i should vote Labour. However the way they are they dont deserve the vote. Give the BNP a go i say,they cant do any worse...

Er, you're taking the piss, surely?

Yep! :D

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

steveone wrote: I`d like to think coming from a working class background,that i should vote Labour. However the way they are they dont deserve the vote. Give the BNP a go i say,they cant do any worse...

Er, you're taking the piss, surely?

Given the recent tone of things round here, probably not.

Polls are a load of piss. There aren't enough stupid people in this country prepared to go out and vote the Tories back in.

Er, surely???????

There are enough stupid people in this country who go out and vote Liberal, hence splitting the vote and letting the Tories in! Happened in the constituency next to mine in the last election. Load of twats in my college spouting shite about how Liberals were better, when they practically gave the Tories power!

El Jarvo wrote: They'll blow it. Comes to something in English (sorry, Briddish) politics though when people are prepared to vote Tory by way of a [cough] 'protest' vote.

Come a General Election, order will be restored.

The pleedical landscape has changed. If they had a credible leader now, the Lib-Dems would have a real chance of challenging Labour and the Tories would be in third place for sure.

One thing's the same as it's always been: people will moan like fuck about foreign policy, but come election day they vote on domestic issues. Most people are faring better under this government and they would vote to keep them were it not for the perceived mis-handling of the terror threat.

All Labour need to do is move Blair on and introduce a new policy of fighting against this threat while giving the philosophy behind it no respect at all.

Refusing to face the issues head on could cost the Labour Party, and by extension the whole country, very dearly.

Criticize everything and offer nothing new; a great alternative. If it wasn't for Blair's foreign policy (or should that be Bush's foreign policy) then I'd still vote for him.

90% of MP's are tossers- Abolishing political parties and establishing temporary coalitions of like minded MP's over issue politics is the only way I can democracy becoming meaningful again...

:toodeepIguess:

Craig W wrote: Criticize everything and offer nothing new; a great alternative. If it wasn't for Blair's foreign policy (or should that be Bush's foreign policy) then I'd still vote for him.

90% of MP's are tossers- Abolishing political parties and establishing temporary coalitions of like minded MP's over issue politics is the only way I can democracy becoming meaningful again...

:toodeepIguess:

Craig, you're gonna have to watch out or you're gonna become one of those annoying ex-pats who claims expertise on domestic matters which are now foreign to him/her.

Think Germaine Greer in reverse!

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

Craig W wrote: Criticize everything and offer nothing new; a great alternative. If it wasn't for Blair's foreign policy (or should that be Bush's foreign policy) then I'd still vote for him.

90% of MP's are tossers- Abolishing political parties and establishing temporary coalitions of like minded MP's over issue politics is the only way I can democracy becoming meaningful again...

:toodeepIguess:

Craig, you're gonna have to watch out or you're gonna become one of those annoying ex-pats who claims expertise on domestic matters which are now foreign to him/her.

Think Germaine Greer in reverse!

Perhaps...

I still think the principle applies globally though...

:)

They have a chance. Of course, as with all elections, it'll be more of a referendum on the incumbent. So basically if Cameron wins it'll be mainly because he's not Blair, Brown or whoever is in charge in 3 or 4 years time.

Still, nowt wrong with that. he might come up with a sensible policies on immigration, state benefits and other aspects of soceity that irk me.

Oh, and the electoral system, which is so horrifically biased in Labours favour.

thats nothing

Newcastle blew a 12 point lead

Noodleman wrote: thats nothing

Newcastle blew a 12 point lead

That's true. Divine Brown blew Hugh Grant as well.

Uncle Liam wrote: They have a chance. Of course, as with all elections, it'll be more of a referendum on the incumbent. So basically if Cameron wins it'll be mainly because he's not Blair, Brown or whoever is in charge in 3 or 4 years time.

Still, nowt wrong with that. he might come up with a sensible policies on immigration, state benefits and other aspects of soceity that irk me.

Two paragraphs: one entirely sensible, the other full of monstrous right-wing horsecack.

Liam: you are Dr Jekyll and I claim my £40.*

(* - Ordinarily £5, but Colin has upped the stakes.)

Uncle Liam wrote:

Still, nowt wrong with that. he might come up with a sensible policies on immigration, state benefits and other aspects of soceity that irk me.

Uncle Liam wrote: Oh, and the electoral system, which is so horrifically biased in Labours favour.

So you've been secretly voting LibDem for decades?

Surely this has to be qualifed by the fact that the Tories currently have no policies. Presumably sometime before the election they will actually have to declare some? This may concentrate voters' minds and change the picture somewhat. Still, as things stand I find it hard to see a huge difference between the two main parties.

I note Blair's man Byers has ripped a page right out of Bush's songbook and has started calling for the scrapping of inheritance tax. Even the language seems straight out of the US argument, if I remember rightly, calling it a tax on hard work and industry, rather than a tax on unearned money for the likes of Paris Hilton or Tamara Palmer-fuckwit. The only reason there's any kind of problem with inheritance tax is because house prices have gotten so massively out-of-whack with the price of everything else. Its the same issue that causes problems with paying for residential care for the elderly. All sorts of ordinary folk are now counted as being 'rich' because a few extra noughts have been added to the end of their house value, even though it doesn't in practice make them so.

Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced the Tories would be any worse than New Labour.

404 error wrote: Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced the Tories would be any worse than New Labour.

Which is the popular logic that - terrifyingly - might just get the cunts back in, policies or no. If the Tories had remained in charge we'd still have the fucking IRA planting bombs on UK mainland (instead of just shooting people in the kneecaps and robbing banks over in Eire), we'd have single mothers being lined up and shot, and Liam would probably be an MP.

Think about it.

and if you think all thats borin...

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

404 error wrote: Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced the Tories would be any worse than New Labour.

Which is the popular logic that - terrifyingly - might just get the cunts back in, policies or no. If the Tories had remained in charge we'd still have the fucking IRA planting bombs on UK mainland (instead of just shooting people in the kneecaps and robbing banks over in Eire), we'd have single mothers being lined up and shot, and Liam would probably be an MP.

Think about it.

Didn't the IRA talks begin under Major anyway? Besides, if one festering sore happens to be in remission at the moment, Blair's kindly bequethed us all a vastly bigger one in Iraq.

And I sometimes wonder if outright Tory privitisations aren't preferable to the time-bomb of PFI.

I have to say I'm not entirely convinced that Liam really is my uncle.

FrogChorus wrote:

There are enough stupid people in this country who go out and vote Liberal, hence splitting the vote and letting the Tories in!

the israeli political system is the way of the future, where the purpose is to split the vote. 8000 parties vying for 10 seats, coalitions popping up everywhere: the ultra-orthodox jews aligning with the arab list, the communists making nice with likud. a) it's much more interesting, and b) it prevents one party from gaining too much power.

as far as the tories and labour are concerned, do you think there's that much of a difference anymore? (and i'm asking this as a serious question.) new labour is hardly the same party of clement attlee, nye bevin and tony benn.

AgentWood wrote:

FrogChorus wrote:

There are enough stupid people in this country who go out and vote Liberal, hence splitting the vote and letting the Tories in!

the israeli political system is the way of the future

I can assure you that it most definitely is not!! And the difference between Labour and the Tories is slender these days, but it's the difference between sell-out wankers and outmoded hateful wankers.

This is a New Order website. I know where my vote's going.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

FrogChorus wrote:

There are enough stupid people in this country who go out and vote Liberal, hence splitting the vote and letting the Tories in!

the israeli political system is the way of the future

I can assure you that it most definitely is not!!

erm, i was being sarcastic? there aren't 8000 parties (although a new one seems to pop up every few months or so), and there are a hell of a lot more than 10 seats in the knesset! the israeli system is simply entertaining. perhaps the most fickle bunch of voters in the world.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

This is a New Order website. I know where my vote's going.

with uncle liam's?

I can forgive most of the nonsense that Noo Labour have been guilty of because I honestly believe that it was necessary in order to get elected.

In the UK system, there is simply no point having high principles while the people in power are making a total mess of things.

But it’s all going too far at the moment – traces of madness are creeping in. It’s time to ice-pick Blair and let someone fatter and more Scottish carry on the good work.

(Subject for next thread – now that Scotland has it’s own Parliament, should a Scot be running the UK?)

Diamond White wrote:

(Subject for next thread – now that Scotland has it’s own Parliament, should a Scot be running the UK?)

there already is, TB was born in Edinburgh...:D

If a dog is born in a stable, does that mean he's a horse?

redken wrote:

Diamond White wrote:

(Subject for next thread – now that Scotland has it’s own Parliament, should a Scot be running the UK?)

there already is, TB was born in Edinburgh...:D

gordon brown was born in glasgow and john reid was born in scotland (don't know where), as well.

Thank God that at last people are beginning to see through Blair and his smoke & mirrors & spin.

No more wars no more lies no more PFI no more foundation hospitals no more city acadamies no more ID cards no more taxes

Its time to vote Conservative.

darran clarke wrote:

no more taxes

I'd vote for Uncle Liam if he promised to abolish taxes!

Shug wrote:

Diamond White wrote: I can forgive most of the nonsense that Noo Labour have been guilty of because I honestly believe that it was necessary in order to get elected.

In the UK system, there is simply no point having high principles while the people in power are making a total mess of things.

But it’s all going too far at the moment – traces of madness are creeping in. It’s time to ice-pick Blair and let someone fatter and more Scottish carry on the good work.

(Subject for next thread – now that Scotland has it’s own Parliament, should a Scot be running the UK?)

Brown certainly couldn't fcuk the public over like Blair has.

That's true. He could probably eat us all, though.

AgentWood wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

This is a New Order website. I know where my vote's going.

with uncle liam's?

It was more a reference to the "sell-out wankers" bit. I will happily drink beer with Liam; there is no way my cross is going in the same box as his.*

(* - On this note, I would warn all readers to avoid ANY "box" that Liam has been near )

darran clarke wrote:

Its time to vote Conservative.

no its not

see you in hell 'Call me Dave' Cameron

Haven't voted since the late 90's. Not legitimating any of these twats.

I think Labour would win in a fight.

AgentWood wrote:

FrogChorus wrote:

There are enough stupid people in this country who go out and vote Liberal, hence splitting the vote and letting the Tories in!

the israeli political system is the way of the future, where the purpose is to split the vote. 8000 parties vying for 10 seats, coalitions popping up everywhere: the ultra-orthodox jews aligning with the arab list, the communists making nice with likud. a) it's much more interesting, and b) it prevents one party from gaining too much power.

as far as the tories and labour are concerned, do you think there's that much of a difference anymore? (and i'm asking this as a serious question.) new labour is hardly the same party of clement attlee, nye bevin and tony benn.

Proportional representation. Wave of the future. Would definitely help un-fuck things in the States, as well.

Bloody hell, and the season's only one game old...

Snorri xxx

darran clarke wrote: Thank God that at last people are beginning to see through Blair and his smoke & mirrors & spin.

No more wars no more lies no more PFI no more foundation hospitals no more city academies no more ID cards no more taxes

Its time to vote Conservative.

Surprised that no one else has picked up on this one.

You really think that voting Tory will stop wars? Like it didn't in '82, or '91.

And as for lies - you are joking, aren't you?

How old are you? Don't you remember the last Tory government? They were the biggest bunch of crooks in UK history.

Foundation hospitals and city academies are honest attempts to get funding back into health and education infrastructures without undue burden on the taxpayer. Why is it necessary? Because of the years of under spending and expensive restructuring by the Conservatives.

And don’t kid yourself into thinking that the ID cards will go away with the Labour Party.

And as for no more taxes? If by that you mean that the tax burden will be shifted from higher earners onto the lower paid, then you probably have a point.

It’s not time to vote Conservative at all. It’s time to know your history and stop repeating what you read in the Daily Mail without thinking about it.

Diamond White wrote: [ You really think that voting Tory will stop wars? Like it didn't in '82, or '91.

And as for lies - you are joking, aren't you?

How old are you? Don't you remember the last Tory government? They were the biggest bunch of crooks in UK history.

Foundation hospitals and city academies are honest attempts to get funding back into health and education infrastructures without undue burden on the taxpayer. Why is it necessary? Because of the years of under spending and expensive restructuring by the Conservatives.

And don’t kid yourself into thinking that the ID cards will go away with the Labour Party.

And as for no more taxes? If by that you mean that the tax burden will be shifted from higher earners onto the lower paid, then you probably have a point.

It’s not time to vote Conservative at all. It’s time to know your history and stop repeating what you read in the Daily Mail without thinking about it.

Daily Mail readers??? Thinking??!!??!!

Get real, Colin!!! I remember being on a train a few years back and a group of guys sitting behind me were reading stories to each other from various papers. After one left them all reeling with laughter, a voice goes: "That's what I love about the Mail. They hate EVERYONE"

Rarely a truer word spoken.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Daily Mail readers??? Thinking??!!??!!

Get real, Colin!!!

It was the rudest thing I could think of saying - influenced by your good self (and Beckett, of course).

Ally's right - there's a bloke in this office who reads the Express and even he laughs about how full of nonsense it is.

Every other day there are new revelations of old big-nose.

S'pose it's better than some shit about which of the models and popstars of the day are in or out of vogue. Publicity for Diana doesn't really benefit anyone - the other 'news'papers are basically free advertising for crappy slebs.

I found the most touching tribute to Princess Diana on the internet recently - on the Private Eye website. What they did was reprinted articles by tabloid columnists just before she died, comparing them to work by the same writers immediately after her death.

Gays read it too - fact

The men on Frad's train were obviously reading it as a joke.

Diamond White wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Daily Mail readers??? Thinking??!!??!!

Get real, Colin!!!

It was the rudest thing I could think of saying - influenced by your good self (and Beckett, of course).

Ally's right - there's a bloke in this office who reads the Express and even he laughs about how full of nonsense it is.

Every other day there are new revelations of old big-nose.

S'pose it's better than some shit about which of the models and popstars of the day are in or out of vogue. Publicity for Diana doesn't really benefit anyone - the other 'news'papers are basically free advertising for crappy slebs.

I found the most touching tribute to Princess Diana on the internet recently - on the Private Eye website. What they did was reprinted articles by tabloid columnists just before she died, comparing them to work by the same writers immediately after her death.

Its one of life's little mysteries as far as I'm concerned - why does anyone read the Daily Express?

I can understand why people read the Mail, much though I dislike the paper. It plays to the fear some folk have that someone somewhere might be getting away with something, or worse, enjoying themselves. Also the fact that a paper thats so misogyninstic and obsessed with policing women celebrities' weight is so widely read by women probably supports the old joke about 'what do men and women have in common? - They both hate women'. But at least one can say that what it does, it does well.

But the Express is surely just the Mail on a tuppence ha'penny budget and without the style? I remember a period around the time of the gulf war when they didn't have a single headline that was actually _true_ for two consecutive weeks (e.g. claiming that Saddam had used Scuds, when he hadn't, then claiming a journalist had been shot by Iraqis when it was Coalition troops, etc).

They seem to specialise in trying to terrify their readers (one blazing headline I remember was 'Britain to reintroduce rationing' - turned out to be some obscure government paper about disaster planning, the sort of thing HMG churns out routinely, saying that in the event of some highly unlikely disaster they might have food rationing - with no suggestion whatsoever it was actually likely)

Plus they are obsessed with Princess Di conspiracy theories.

If people want to read an angry right-wing lower middle class paper, why don't they at least opt for the better written one?

Cunt

hmm.

Newspaper snobbery/loyalty is quite pathetic really.

Sometimes its nice just to look at a pair of tits.

El Jarvo wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Daily Mail readers??? Thinking??!!??!!

Get real, Colin!!! I remember being on a train a few years back and a group of guys sitting behind me were reading stories to each other from various papers. After one left them all reeling with laughter, a voice goes: "That's what I love about the Mail. They hate EVERYONE"

Rarely a truer word spoken.

I thought the Daily Mail was only read by birds?!

you mean shat on by birds. it makes great cage lining.

Diamond White wrote:

darran clarke wrote: Thank God that at last people are beginning to see through Blair and his smoke & mirrors & spin.

No more wars no more lies no more PFI no more foundation hospitals no more city academies no more ID cards no more taxes

Its time to vote Conservative.

Surprised that no one else has picked up on this one.

You really think that voting Tory will stop wars? Like it didn't in '82, or '91.

And as for lies - you are joking, aren't you?

How old are you? Don't you remember the last Tory government? They were the biggest bunch of crooks in UK history.

Foundation hospitals and city academies are honest attempts to get funding back into health and education infrastructures without undue burden on the taxpayer. Why is it necessary? Because of the years of under spending and expensive restructuring by the Conservatives.

And don’t kid yourself into thinking that the ID cards will go away with the Labour Party.

And as for no more taxes? If by that you mean that the tax burden will be shifted from higher earners onto the lower paid, then you probably have a point.

It’s not time to vote Conservative at all. It’s time to know your history and stop repeating what you read in the Daily Mail without thinking about it.

I read the MEN on a Thursday, The Times on a Saturday and the Observer and Telegraph on a Sunday. I dont read the Mail. Im 38 and do remember the last Tory govnt. I particularly remember the fiscal policies that resulted in an economic revitalisation of the UK the results of which were bequeathed to Labour, which they have now totally pissed up against the wall resulting in hospitals sacking nurses, tax freedom day now later than it has ever been, and more laws passed than any other govnt. in history.

Shug wrote: You're not William Hague are you

Blair has to go,or join the Tory party..Either of those courses of action,would surely put an end to the foolish notion of another Tory Government..Does'nt bare thinking about for the North East for sure...Utter cunts!

El Jarvo wrote: Something's just reminded me, one of the lads I know initially through New Order (first met him nigh on 10 years ago), and who I socialise with in London and who just about everyone here who knows me will also know ... used to be leader of the Young Conservatives.

Which, as anyone with half a braincell will know, is quite a position of power, especially at the time when he was leader, and the Tories were a lot stronger.

But he doesn't prattle on about politics whatsoever. Doesn't bore you with moronic kneejerk reactions like some of the cannon fodder here. In fact, if a mutual friend hadn't mentioned his background, I would never have known of his previous lofty state of office.

He's also one of THE nicest people you could hope to meet and you won't hear a bad word said against him.

You do get some nice Tories, who don't feel the need to blurt right-wing rhetoric about immigration and single mums all the time.

Would never have had Welsh Darren down as a Tory.

Tories are cunts!

So was Margaret Thatcher.

El Jarvo wrote: Something's just reminded me, one of the lads I know initially through New Order (first met him nigh on 10 years ago), and who I socialise with in London and who just about everyone here who knows me will also know ... used to be leader of the Young Conservatives.

Which, as anyone with half a braincell will know, is quite a position of power, especially at the time when he was leader, and the Tories were a lot stronger.

But he doesn't prattle on about politics whatsoever. Doesn't bore you with moronic kneejerk reactions like some of the cannon fodder here. In fact, if a mutual friend hadn't mentioned his background, I would never have known of his previous lofty state of office.

He's also one of THE nicest people you could hope to meet and you won't hear a bad word said against him.

You do get some nice Tories, who don't feel the need to blurt right-wing rhetoric about immigration and single mums all the time.

i, erm, 'got to know in a biblical sense' the president of the st. andrews young conservatives. he was pretty nice, too.

Woody shagged a Tory! Woody shagged a Tory!

Diamond White wrote: Woody shagged a Tory! Woody shagged a Tory!

ah, but i have never shagged a republican.

AgentWood wrote:

Diamond White wrote: Woody shagged a Tory! Woody shagged a Tory!

ah, but i have never shagged a republican.

Same thing! Different country.

Bit like shagging Spurs really!

Bonzette wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Diamond White wrote: Woody shagged a Tory! Woody shagged a Tory!

ah, but i have never shagged a republican.

Same thing! Different country.

Bit like shagging Spurs really!

tories are all candy floss, rainbows and unicorns compared to the republicans. there isn't a party in britain that compares to the GOP; many republicans are considerably further to the right than the tories are.

give me a spur to shag over a hardcore right-wing republican anyday! (replace 'spur' with 'chelsea' and i might have to rethink it, though....)

chelsea might be 9 points clear at some point. both have southern support and are full of money and posh people