The Path to 9/11

Just watched first part of a docu-drama with the above title, which is unusually being broadcast simultaneously on both sides of the Atlantic, although i imagine it is on a bit later in the US, as it shows scenes of a graphic nature. Its starring Harvey Keitel, Donnie Wahlberg and a bloke that used to be in Eastenders as an Al-Qaeda bomb maker.

First part I thought was really good, highlighting the number of times Osama got away from the bullet or capture, largely cos of failure to gain White House approval.

Anyone else see it?

Saw up to the first attempt to get Osama. Seemed pretty good.

Already, it's controversial.

i watched about 2 hours of it.

Saw the last half of it tonight. About as informative as that conspiracy video on googlevideo.

Rubbish - esp the coverage of the shifa pharmaceutical strike. Selective right-wing rubbish. Doubtless Liam & the Cranks loved it;.

But could it be anything else? Of course not.

How are the re sits going this year Conor?

Uncle Liam wrote: But could it be anything else? Of course not.

How are the re sits going this year Conor?

Good. How are you keeping. Got that job as a senior analyst down in Thames House yet?

Thought the pharmaceutical strike was sparsely covered. Basically said it was identified as a target, because Osamas money was in there. And that the Syrians complained it was just a medecine factory. Not a lot else there, perhaps two minutes worth of film.

Burt Reynolds wrote: Thought the pharmaceutical strike was sparsely covered. Basically said it was identified as a target, because Osamas money was in there. And that the Syrians complained it was just a medecine factory. Not a lot else there, perhaps two minutes worth of film.

Which is all pretty convenient. The Imperialists cant be wrong, of course.

Next week, how we spread representative democracy by invasion & occupation.

Signing off: Conor McGowan B.E. (hons)*

**See that, it means that everyone elses opinion on computers, cars, and military hardware is inferior. I'll be raking that up the next time we have a discussion on space.

Clockwork C wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Thought the pharmaceutical strike was sparsely covered. Basically said it was identified as a target, because Osamas money was in there. And that the Syrians complained it was just a medecine factory. Not a lot else there, perhaps two minutes worth of film.

Which is all pretty convenient. The Imperialists cant be wrong, of course.

Next week, how we spread representative democracy by invasion & occupation.

Signing off: Conor McGowan B.E. (hons)*

**See that, it means that everyone elses opinion on computers, cars, and military hardware is inferior. I'll be raking that up the next time we have a discussion on space.

Not seeing any point here. I was trying to say it seemed pretty subjective to me. Are you saying it didnt happen?

Or just typing bollocks?

I dont even think Conor knows the answer to that!

Well since Al-Q is just a made up organisation created by the US Govt as a construct to satisfy some point of US law[1], and since this "documentary" treats them as a real thing, I would surmise it's a pile of fetid horse shite.

[1] Source, "the power of nightmares" British Broadcasting Corporation.

Doctor? wrote: Well since Al-Q is just a made up organisation created by the US Govt as a construct to satisfy some point of US law[1], and since this "documentary" treats them as a real thing, I would surmise it's a pile of fetid horse shite.

[1] Source, "the power of nightmares" British Broadcasting Corporation.

Not sure it actually mentioned the term, Doc. Programme synopses mentioned it, to help us minions understand the blurb.

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Well since Al-Q is just a made up organisation created by the US Govt as a construct to satisfy some point of US law[1], and since this "documentary" treats them as a real thing, I would surmise it's a pile of fetid horse shite.

[1] Source, "the power of nightmares" British Broadcasting Corporation.

Not sure it actually mentioned the term, Doc. Programme synopses mentioned it, to help us minions understand the blurb.

Well how big a deal does it make of OBL being a CIA agent gone bad?

It's time to clean up this world

Doctor? wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Well since Al-Q is just a made up organisation created by the US Govt as a construct to satisfy some point of US law[1], and since this "documentary" treats them as a real thing, I would surmise it's a pile of fetid horse shite.

[1] Source, "the power of nightmares" British Broadcasting Corporation.

Not sure it actually mentioned the term, Doc. Programme synopses mentioned it, to help us minions understand the blurb.

Well how big a deal does it make of OBL being a CIA agent gone bad?

It started basically at the first WTC attack in 1993. Concentrated on the various individuals that were involved and some tried and convicted. OBL didnt appear til half way through at least.

So no mention of those allegations. Seemed to be more concerned with what we know for definite. Basically, its worth a look before being over-critical. Certainly it wasnt kind to the US Intelligence services either.

Second part tomorrow, and I'll hold my judgement til then.

Unless it has a good answer for the interceptors NOT being permitted to intercept at super sonic velocity as they had done on every previous (suspected) hi-jack interception it's just "support bush, kill brown people so you don't have to pay a real price for petrol"

Doctor? wrote: Unless it has a good answer for the interceptors NOT being permitted to intercept at super sonic velocity as they had done on every previous (suspected) hi-jack interception it's just "support bush, kill brown people so you don't have to pay a real price for petrol"

All the 9/11 stuff is tomorrow. The general theme currently is the build-up, and the various fuck-ups that allowed the perpetrators to live, and not get captured.

The most interesting thing, (if we are to believe it) is how much they knew about OBL and how much effort they had spent on keeping an eye on him for some years.

Besides Doc... I think its trying to steer away from the conspiracy stuff and fill us in with various bits and bobs about the people involved.

yeah big effort....

"Hi ozzie, come for your pay cheque?, here ya go"

The CIA met with him in June 01 to try and get him to do more work for them, that's JUNE 2001! (source CIA, as published by insitute of co-operative research)

BTW Burt, that's a Union flag i your profile yes?

WTF happened on 9th Nov?

(don't let the cunts re-write our whole way of life man).

Doctor? wrote: yeah big effort....

"Hi ozzie, come for your pay cheque?, here ya go"

The CIA met with him in June 01 to try and get him to do more work for them, that's JUNE 2001! (source CIA, as published by insitute of co-operative research)

BTW Burt, that's a Union flag i your profile yes?

WTF happened on 9th Nov?

(don't let the cunts re-write our whole way of life man).

Yep.. yer right there.. its their tragedy though... they can have the date. Shame ours was 7/7 cos its interchangeable.

Love to see some more credible stuff on the alleged meeting though. He was the worlds most wanted man at the time. you got any credible non-conspiracy theory links?

HERE

Not free of conspiracy nuts, but at least they colour code it as the rambling of nutters ;)

They also list sources for all the information which is good. Been a while since I read it all tho, and it's gotten a lot fatter since then.

BTW, can I just remind everyone, that under US and UK law, anyone receiving payment for their involvement in this film is guilty of profiting from terrorism, this is also, technically true of any advertiser who bought the slots during this show.

Doctor? wrote: HERE

Not free of conspiracy nuts, but at least they colour code it as the rambling of nutters ;)

They also list sources for all the information which is good. Been a while since I read it all tho, and it's gotten a lot fatter since then.

Just read that section, and the bit i read (there may be more) was vaguish about the alleged meeting with two different CIA agents while bin Laden was in hospital in Dubai. It didnt mention any stuff about recruiting OBL, but did suggest a proposal for peace was laid on the table. The sources for this stuff were from a couple of French newspapers and The Guardian. Not entirely convincing though.

I seem to recall there was more to it, he'd been "rogue" for a long time, and they were trying to regain control of their "asset". Then again it may have been balls and removed.

Of course cince this site uses the name of the non-existent Al-Q it may itself be not all that accurate, but it's so far the only place I can find which is not full of foaming "martians did it" morons or "We want to make the world free to be exactly like us" types.

I think I'll miss this one. There has been alot of coverage of the docudrama for the last few weeks. Basically it's "based" on true events, but they take many liberties and assuptions into what happened. It is not factual based....don't see why anyone would watch it if is admitted, by the producers, to be fiction. All it does is confuse people.

All of media is so slanted in either direction. It would be nice for one of the channels, papers, mags, to be unbiased....very nice, very nice, but maybe in the next world.

JHC

Doctor? wrote: I seem to recall there was more to it, he'd been "rogue" for a long time, and they were trying to regain control of their "asset". Then again it may have been balls and removed.

Of course cince this site uses the name of the non-existent Al-Q it may itself be not all that accurate, but it's so far the only place I can find which is not full of foaming "martians did it" morons or "We want to make the world free to be exactly like us" types.

I've always put the term Al-Qaeda down to our own interpretations on collectives, and our need to have a name for the collective we are fighting.

Al-Qaeda is no SPECTRE or IRA, and i wouldnt class Afghanistan as a legitimate country either. Its an area with a Western tag. And the feckers never lose.

any way.. back to the thread please.

EdelBrock wrote: I think I'll miss this one.

JHC

That is sooooooooo not you. You feeling ok?

Burt Reynolds wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: I think I'll miss this one.

JHC

That is sooooooooo not you. You feeling ok?

Feeling fine......I always hate the media and how it squews everything....I'm not as heavy a "right-winger" as you think.

I'll give you another shocker: I hate Rush Limbaugh with a passion....the guy's an idiot.

JHC

yeah i'm watching it and its slanted to the right. Not really paying attention tho. its just fooking stopid that their showing it on the eve of 9/11. Its the media (not to mention bush)that keeps reminding us to be scared and live in fear. everyday its something. I live in new yawk and many days past before any of us new yawkers speak of 9/11. We have moved on and we aren't scared people. Don't let them fool you. i'm much more concerned by the common criminal. hope this is coherent. A bit to drink tonite.

jonathan wrote: yeah i'm watching it and its slanted to the right. Not really paying attention tho. its just fooking stopid that their showing it on the eve of 9/11. Its the media (not to mention bush)that keeps reminding us to be scared and live in fear. everyday its something. I live in new yawk and many days past before any of us new yawkers speak of 9/11. We have moved on and we aren't scared people. Don't let them fool you. i'm much more concerned by the common criminal. hope this is coherent. A bit to drink tonite.

Well that's a good thing and bad. People tend to get too complacent and it causes people to forget about some of the long term real issues. Though It is good that it hasn't stopped the world from turning.

JHC

I'm struggling to see the show as right wing (a few glib swipes at Clinton aside) given that it appears to be moving towards claiming that 9/11 could/should have been prevented. I've said it before and I'll say it again: conspiracy theorising is just a defence mechanism against the much scarier thought that the American Satans ain't really in control: perhaps, scarily enough, real 'freedom' is the freedom to climb on board a jet armed with a penknife and end up killing nearly 3000 people??

People want to believe that someone's the boss and that someone's in control and shaping everything. It's hopelessly Oedipal: we hate daddy USA but need them at the same time. Anyhow, just flicking through the paper today shows what a fiasco any so-called 'conspiracy' has been: Bin Laden off the map; Iraq a disaster; Taliban still kicking arse in Afghanistan.

I thought the show was good. Keitel was on autopilot (again) and it was a bit weird to see that lad from 'Eastenders' as a rabid jihadist, but, y'know, quality TV. I find it amazing that people believe they can can draw lines between "the facts" and "propaganda". How come geeks all over the globe stuck in front of his/her PC can see through the bullshit??? It's vain and narcissistic and self-aggrandising, to say the least. The paranoid style, anyone???

[Oh, it was hopelessly macho, natch!: "Are there any men left in Washington anymore??"!!!!]

Didn't see it. Hope to catch a repeat on my cable tv thingy.

Did it make any reference to the CIA backed overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953? He was Iran's 1st (and only) democratically elected leader. Pissed off the West when he tried to nationalise Iranian oil. Couldn't blame him seeing as how Royal Dutch Shell were raking in most of the revenue whilst many Iranians lived in poverty, were illiterate etc. Wanna know why many Iranians hate America? Look to 1953

He was Time Magazine's Man of The Year in 1952 don't you know

Thought it was quite entertaining. Obviously parts of it are fictionalised, and more could of been made of the history of bin Laden, instead of just introducing him as the financer of some bombers.

really, it's just a watered down version of the parts of the truth (such as bin laden's previous dealings with the US arent mentioned) but what else do you expect? the truth would be nice, but it just aint gonna happen

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: I'm struggling to see the show as right wing (a few glib swipes at Clinton aside) given that it appears to be moving towards claiming that 9/11 could/should have been prevented. I've said it before and I'll say it again: conspiracy theorising is just a defence mechanism against the much scarier thought that the American Satans ain't really in control: perhaps, scarily enough, real 'freedom' is the freedom to climb on board a jet armed with a penknife and end up killing nearly 3000 people??

People want to believe that someone's the boss and that someone's in control and shaping everything. It's hopelessly Oedipal: we hate daddy USA but need them at the same time. Anyhow, just flicking through the paper today shows what a fiasco any so-called 'conspiracy' has been: Bin Laden off the map; Iraq a disaster; Taliban still kicking arse in Afghanistan.

I thought the show was good. Keitel was on autopilot (again) and it was a bit weird to see that lad from 'Eastenders' as a rabid jihadist, but, y'know, quality TV. I find it amazing that people believe they can can draw lines between "the facts" and "propaganda". How come geeks all over the globe stuck in front of his/her PC can see through the bullshit??? It's vain and narcissistic and self-aggrandising, to say the least. The paranoid style, anyone???

[Oh, it was hopelessly macho, natch!: "Are there any men left in Washington anymore??"!!!!]

Amazingly, I completely agree with you. Now obviously ABC did mostly for ratings (money), but I wonder if they made it public of a docudrama, instead of a documentary, to kill the conspirecy theories out there? A bit of reverse psycology?

JHC

jonathan wrote: yeah i'm watching it and its slanted to the right. Not really paying attention tho. its just fooking stopid that their showing it on the eve of 9/11. Its the media (not to mention bush)that keeps reminding us to be scared and live in fear. everyday its something.hope this is coherent. A bit to drink tonite.

I completely agree with you, as it is slanted, but so are Micheal Moore's and Oliver Stone's crap, yet peoplebuy into that all the time. People love dirt on others and conspirecy theories.

There is a time to draw a line in the sand, so to speak. It is when factual based info is in higher ratio than the opinionated based info. When people add their opinion, and only seek out the info to back their assumption, well then they are just jack-asses...... or if done a little more they are Moore asses.

JHC

Tell you what is REALLY disgusting...... Some affiliates pulled this show in the US last night because they feared an FCC and AFA backlash...because it features firefighters swearing.....pious cunts, I'm sure if a plane hit THEM they'd say "oh gosh"

Hmmm. Second part went downhill for me. Endlessly masculinist, hopelessly melodramatic, wildly populist with more than a hint of the Dirty harry about it (damn those bureaucrats (sp.?) and wussy politicians!). Best bit was the obvious love affair between handsome leader of Northern Alliance and Donnie Wahlberg.

Lust in the dust!!!

But on a more positive note, The Daily Show/Colbert Report returned with new shows last night. Kicks the crap out of some smarmy docudrama.