The Pope vs. Islam

And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Dickheads.

Be fuckin hell on if some nut penetrates the Popemobile with a bomb or device,what a goshite pontiff.Talk about making yourself a target..Jihad My mate has a car very similar to the Popemobile..Strangely he has yet to pull a bird while in it

MUSLIMS are WANKERS.

Got that Allah. WANKERS!!

The way I read it was the Pope actually said "I quote" before quoting the said 14thc Emperor. He also apologised twice attempting to explain that 'they were not his words'.

Christianity isn't exactly innocent where a violent past is concerned,but in 'these times',maybe he shouldn't have asked Bush's boys to write his speech. Not exactly well known for tact.

Do you think he was using 'and I quote' the way that they used to use 'allegedly' on have I got news for you.

Youd expect him to be a little more diplomatic. Hes fucked everyone now!

Both sides are dickheads, though really, that term is much too kind.

Can't they just settle this like men, with a streetball tournament?

The Pope might have some mad skills, but he's always hotdogging just a little too long. Mohammed better recognize when Benedict gets a little too in love with his dribbling, paw the ball off the show-off, and get a good dunk in to say "in your face!" :D

Ummm...read the article and seems that the Muslims were upset with: "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached"

And their retort: "The attribution of the spread of Islam around the world to the shedding of blood and violence, which is 'incompatible with the nature of God' is a complete distortion of the facts, which shows deep ignorance of Islam and Islamic history."

Do these Muslims realize that Muhammad had an "army" of followers and forced people to choose either to believe in him and his Koran or death? The religon was formed by blood on a sword, by it's prophet.......are these people retarded and don't know the history of their own religon?

JHC

EdelBrock wrote: are these people retarded and don't know the history of their own religon? JHC

Probably. A lot of them don't seem to follow their own religion too well, since Islam is supposed to be peaceful and tolerant of other religions.

Shellshocker wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: are these people retarded and don't know the history of their own religon? JHC

Probably. A lot of them don't seem to follow their own religion too well, since Islam is supposed to be peaceful and tolerant of other religions.

But right there is the contradiction in the religon itself, as Muhammed was not peaceful. He was a military prophet. There is what the Koran says and there is how Muhammed acted, a definate contradiction in itself.

Hey! I started this fucking thread, and the rules are you have to mock knobheads on both sides. None of this just bullying the muslims crap!!!

Get with it!!!

faith is a strange invention, it can switch off the peoples' brains and the big problem is already done.

EdelBrock wrote:

Shellshocker wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: are these people retarded and don't know the history of their own religon? JHC

Probably. A lot of them don't seem to follow their own religion too well, since Islam is supposed to be peaceful and tolerant of other religions.

But right there is the contradiction in the religon itself, as Muhammed was not peaceful. He was a military prophet. There is what the Koran says and there is how Muhammed acted, a definate contradiction in itself.

Like what, the founders of Christianity were peaceful? I sure as hel doubt that.

dickheads sums it up well

Of course there are contradictions, for this is the basis of organised religion. Like, for example, the bible denounces homosexuality, right? Yet, by definition, all christians are transgendered lesbians with a taste for violent fisting.

Like, go figure??????

Always find it funny that the 'tolerant' muslims are always up in arms about fuck all. Arseholes. Christ - all the Pope did was quote some old bloke from years ago. Never said he agreed with him. Then every Guardian reading lefty twat is up in arms blabbing off. Get a life. Appears to me (being a Christian) that tolerant means being able to accept these 'comments' from whatever side without wanting to burn/kill.. someone.

the voice of reason!

Do these hard-line jihadists ever laugh? I honestly don't think they know how...unless the punchline is "Death to Israel." Always nice to see how these particular Muslims demonstrate their belief in peace and tolerance...by killing people and destroying property. Just a little hint, fellas: not the most effective way to get people sympathetic to your cause.

Has the Catholic Church ever apologized for their complicity with Italian and German fascism? I find it terribly funny how the new Pope (that goosestepper himself) makes a big to-do about the Holocaust, but doesn't acknolwedge his own relijun's indrect role in bringing it about. Capitulated faster than the French!

So...erm...dickheads all around!

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Let's put this in some sort of perspective, shall we. How many times is the Church ripped for the Crusades (although some don't find them having been such a bad thing)? Do masses of Christians take the streets? Does the world have to worry about the "Christian street" is going to do or think? Have any Imams been shot in the back lately?

I realize the Church is not perfect. Far from it.....

But what of you, my European cousins. Who will you stand with when the time comes. And, by the way, it is coming. Have you checked your demographics lately? You, my cousins, have not been reproducing yourselves. Your churches stand mostly empty. This while our Muslim friends have been vigorously procreating and busily building mosques .

What do you think is going to happen when Muslims have elected majorities in govenment? What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school? When and where will you have a pint? (If at all.....)

Tex wrote: What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school?

probably the same thing that will happen if fundamentalist christians are in power.

Tex wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Let's put this in some sort of perspective, shall we. How many times is the Church ripped for the Crusades (although some don't find them having been such a bad thing)? Do masses of Christians take the streets? Does the world have to worry about the "Christian street" is going to do or think? Have any Imams been shot in the back lately?

I realize the Church is not perfect. Far from it.....

But what of you, my European cousins. Who will you stand with when the time comes. And, by the way, it is coming. Have you checked your demographics lately? You, my cousins, have not been reproducing yourselves. Your churches stand mostly empty. This while our Muslim friends have been vigorously procreating and busily building mosques .

What do you think is going to happen when Muslims have elected majorities in govenment? What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school? When and where will you have a pint? (If at all.....)

yep cos the catholic church is Really big on abortion rights, I don't honestly know the Muslim view on abortion but it surely can't be any worse. They're really nice to gay people too the old catholics

AgentWood wrote:

Tex wrote: What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school?

probably the same thing that will happen if fundamentalist christians are in power.

You forgot the part about the pint..... :D But seriously, many lefties think the United States is already run by fundamentalist christians. As far as I can tell (at least here in North Texas) the breast emporiums are still open and selling beer, Real Sex is still on HBO and a woman can still drees like a whore if she wants to.

Do these Muslims realize that Muhammad had an "army" of followers and forced people to choose either to believe in him and his Koran or death? The religon was formed by blood on a sword, by it's prophet.......are these people retarded and don't know the history of their own religon?

Wise Words

On another note why don't they all blow themselves up and visit ALAN or whatever his name is.

If i was in power all muslim women would wear Bikinis, well the fit ones anyway

VOICE IF REASON

Yes, here in Englandistan we're all fucked. The muslim hordes are taking over. In fact, it feels like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" right now.

THEY'RE HERE!!!!! THEY'RE I TELL YOU!!!! AND THEY'RE TAKING OVER!!!!

FFS.

I've never seen one in an Hawaiian Shirt

Doesn't the fact that someone felt it necessary to go out and kill a nun go some way towards proving the point that certain Muslims have a tendancy to take things just a teensy bit far?

do you need me to point out that religion automatically leads to this sort of thing as it numbs the brain.

LOL ing at all the "muslims are violent" shite.

2 words for you....

Crusades IRA

nuff said.

I don't UNDERSTAND this?Who are these you SPEAK of?

Tex wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tex wrote: What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school?

probably the same thing that will happen if fundamentalist christians are in power.

You forgot the part about the pint..... :D But seriously, many lefties think the United States is already run by fundamentalist christians. As far as I can tell (at least here in North Texas) the breast emporiums are still open and selling beer, Real Sex is still on HBO and a woman can still drees like a whore if she wants to.

about the beer...how many dry counties are there in the south, though? a super smart idea: people driving across county lines, getting absolutely trolleyed and then driving home wasted.

if people don't want to drink, be they christian, muslim, jain, or what have you, that's their choice; but give me my goddamn moonshine!

AgentWood wrote:

Tex wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tex wrote: What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school?

probably the same thing that will happen if fundamentalist christians are in power.

You forgot the part about the pint..... :D But seriously, many lefties think the United States is already run by fundamentalist christians. As far as I can tell (at least here in North Texas) the breast emporiums are still open and selling beer, Real Sex is still on HBO and a woman can still drees like a whore if she wants to.

about the beer...how many dry counties are there in the south, though? a super smart idea: people driving across county lines, getting absolutely trolleyed and then driving home wasted.

if people don't want to drink, be they christian, muslim, jain, or what have you, that's their choice; but give me my goddamn moonshine!

And therein lies the key. Religious types all KNOW they are wrong....that's why they try to force others to their will. If they really believed the shite they spout, they would expect the rest of us to work it out on our own.....or take it up with God when we die.

Doctor? wrote: do you need me to point out that religion automatically leads to this sort of thing as it numbs the brain.

LOL ing at all the "muslims are violent" shite.

2 words for you....

Crusades IRA

nuff said.

Good point, Steve-O!!

Here are some more words:

CHIP SHOP

TICKLING STICK

TRAIN STATION

BANK HOLIDAY

TARMAC

And that I think are the final words on this sorry topic.

FINAL answer?

Bog off Fradley, I was only trying to balance the books

J.A.K wrote: MUSLIMS are WANKERS.

Got that Allah. WANKERS!!

Johnny Kershaw :rip:

why quote something like that if you don't agree with it and then justify it by saying it was to start a debate. nice going.

the Muslim reaction seem way out of proportion to me as well.

both sides don't come out looking too good IMO.

Saw the thread and I thought it was one of them Celebrity Deathmatch thingies!

Not a lot of sympathy for either side.This new Pope doesn't have the decorum like the last one. He's in a position to invite radical Muslims of the world to lay down their arms in the name of peace. What he doesn't do is take the piss out of the religion,no matter how stupid WE fcuking think it is,or whether it's his words or some 14th century wormfood.

Couldn't we just settle it ove a game of "It's a Knockout" ? Big costumes and Stuart Hall !

El Jarvo wrote: Dear, dear. Am I reading some of this right? All Muslims and Catholics are dickheads?

Oh, please. Isn't there some uppity negrahs you can be lynching you WASP filth.

That wasn't a choice. Protestants are total fuckers too.

El Jarvo wrote: Dear, dear. Am I reading some of this right? All Luton fans are dickheads?

Oh, please. Isn't there some uppity negrahs you can be lynching you WASP filth.

I'd rather be lynching uppity Bedfordites!!

And to clarify: the Pope and his PR people are clearly a bunch of dickheads on this point; people who shoot nuns aren't exactly the salt of the earth neither. As for the Muslim reaction being "out of proportion", said reaction comes from those seemingly self-appointed spokespeople whose JOB it is to decry Islamophobia at every possible opportunity. 'Furore' is their job description.

I encounter brutal Stokeophobia every day of the week, Jarvis. You could never understand my pain.

EDIT: Actually, I semi-retract the bit about nuns. Recall an Irish student welling up in class one day when she was telling us about the video of aborted foetuses she was shown by nuns while she was at convent school, aged 12.

Poor form.

El Jarvo wrote: Dear, dear. Am I reading some of this right? All Muslims and Catholics are dickheads?

Oh, please. Isn't there some uppity negrahs you can be lynching you WASP filth.

no No, take it from an Alstar pratastant...huns are cocks too.

S. Campbell, equal opportunities hater.

El Jarvo wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: I'd rather be lynching uppity Bedfordites!!

Bedfordites? People from Bedford (which ain't me, btw, I'm from Luton).

Bedford is, however, well known for it's large Italian community.

So, we're back to the Cafflicks again.

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISTION!!

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: I'd rather be lynching uppity Bedfordites!!

Bedfordites? People from Bedford (which ain't me, btw, I'm from Luton).

Bedford is, however, well known for it's large Italian community.

So, we're back to the Cafflicks again.

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

MUST RESIST!!!!! It's like that scene in Roger Rabit where yer man goes around singing "shave an a haircut" knowing the toon can't resist yelling "two bits"

Nah it's no good..... NNNNNNobody expects the Spanish inquisition, our cheif weapon is surprise, surprise and fear, our two weapons are fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency........etc

I thought it was brilliant how the Pope stepped up to apologise and somehow ended up offending the Jews as well.

I'm looking forward to tomorrows speech - based on how Buddah was a fat bastard who was full of shit.

Diamond White wrote: I thought it was brilliant how the Pope stepped up to apologise and somehow ended up offending the Jews as well.

I'm looking forward to tomorrows speech - based on how Buddah was a fat bastard who was full of shit.

I've got an ornamental Buddah sitting in my living room - in fact he had a good wax polishing earlier! Anyway, if you rub his head, or his belly, he shits money. True.

The debate rages in Basra!

Diamond White wrote:

The debate rages in Basra!

Christ is that the Wicker Man remake? Skimped on the budget haven't they?

That's a pretty crap effigy. Christ, we used to make more effort when we went out scabbing a "penny for the Guy".

Perhaps they realised and they're burning it in a fit of pique?

MONTY !

MONTY,Lust For Glory wrote: Saw the thread and I thought it was one of them Celebrity Deathmatch thingies!

Not a lot of sympathy for either side.This new Pope doesn't have the decorum like the last one. He's in a position to invite radical Muslims of the world to lay down their arms in the name of peace.

same here about thinking that this was a Starred-calibre match.

Good to go ahead and apologize with, 'I hope this serves to appease hearts and clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue with mutual respect.' But how did he mess up so Royally with the first speech. When he could use his current position of Power for such a call to Peace.

ROCKET MICK wrote: FINAL answer?

and DISC0 ROCKET Hoping that all is well w/ Planet Rocket etc.s.

So the muslims are angry that the Pope quoted someone as saying that islam was a violent religion. So they respond with violence. Awesome! Way to prove a point.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: I'd rather be lynching uppity Bedfordites!!

Bedfordites? People from Bedford (which ain't me, btw, I'm from Luton).

Bedford is, however, well known for it's large Italian community.

So, we're back to the Cafflicks again.

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE... ahh fuck it.

Tex wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Let's put this in some sort of perspective, shall we. How many times is the Church ripped for the Crusades (although some don't find them having been such a bad thing)? Do masses of Christians take the streets? Does the world have to worry about the "Christian street" is going to do or think? Have any Imams been shot in the back lately?

I realize the Church is not perfect. Far from it.....

But what of you, my European cousins. Who will you stand with when the time comes. And, by the way, it is coming. Have you checked your demographics lately? You, my cousins, have not been reproducing yourselves. Your churches stand mostly empty. This while our Muslim friends have been vigorously procreating and busily building mosques .

What do you think is going to happen when Muslims have elected majorities in govenment? What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school? When and where will you have a pint? (If at all.....)

Be afraid of the muslims. They're increasing in numbers and they'll compete for money and resources. They're different from us. They're want to change our way of life. They hate freedom. They blow up planes. They're scary. Be afraid of them. Fear them. Be very afraid of the SCARY MUSLIMS.

*yawn*

Mr disco 99 wrote:

Tex wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Let's put this in some sort of perspective, shall we. How many times is the Church ripped for the Crusades (although some don't find them having been such a bad thing)? Do masses of Christians take the streets? Does the world have to worry about the "Christian street" is going to do or think? Have any Imams been shot in the back lately?

I realize the Church is not perfect. Far from it.....

But what of you, my European cousins. Who will you stand with when the time comes. And, by the way, it is coming. Have you checked your demographics lately? You, my cousins, have not been reproducing yourselves. Your churches stand mostly empty. This while our Muslim friends have been vigorously procreating and busily building mosques .

What do you think is going to happen when Muslims have elected majorities in govenment? What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school? When and where will you have a pint? (If at all.....)

Be afraid of the muslims. They're increasing in numbers and they'll compete for money and resources. They're different from us. They're want to change our way of life. They hate freedom. They blow up planes. They're scary. Be afraid of them. Fear them. Be very afraid of the SCARY MUSLIMS.

*yawn*

oh dear.

you're sure you ain't confusing them with cylons?

Mr disco 99 wrote:

Tex wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And, no, I'm not talking about Churchy.

Head of Catholic church says some really very silly things about the Prophet and Muslim 'atavism'; certain members of the muslim community respond by declaring jihads and even shooting nuns in Somalia.

Is it just me, or are both sides a bunch of dickheads?

Let's put this in some sort of perspective, shall we. How many times is the Church ripped for the Crusades (although some don't find them having been such a bad thing)? Do masses of Christians take the streets? Does the world have to worry about the "Christian street" is going to do or think? Have any Imams been shot in the back lately?

I realize the Church is not perfect. Far from it.....

But what of you, my European cousins. Who will you stand with when the time comes. And, by the way, it is coming. Have you checked your demographics lately? You, my cousins, have not been reproducing yourselves. Your churches stand mostly empty. This while our Muslim friends have been vigorously procreating and busily building mosques .

What do you think is going to happen when Muslims have elected majorities in govenment? What will happen to gay rights? Abortion rights? How will women dress? What will be taught in school? When and where will you have a pint? (If at all.....)

Be afraid of the muslims. They're increasing in numbers and they'll compete for money and resources. They're different from us. They're want to change our way of life. They hate freedom. They blow up planes. They're scary. Be afraid of them. Fear them. Be very afraid of the SCARY MUSLIMS.

*yawn*

I'm sure Theo Van Gough and the Italian nun may disagree with you.........

The new Pope is quite different to the old one, image wise. He doesn't look too friendly and seems to go out of his way to upset people.

The old one was like a big waving bear.

I think he should just get down off his high fucking horse and say whatever he needs to to get the morons to shut up and stop shooting nuns.

He could always cross his fingers while he's saying it and make wanker signs behind their backs when they walk away.

I'm glad the pope is not a German but a Bavarian. So dear Al-Queida-people please nuke Bavaria not Germany...

Tex wrote:

I'm sure Theo Van Gough and the Italian nun may disagree with you.........

So you're saying we SHOULD be scared?

MONTY,Lust For Glory wrote:

Diamond White wrote:

The debate rages in Basra!

Christ is that the Wicker Man remake? Skimped on the budget haven't they?

sTArring MICHAEL CAnE

You can't burn a Cyber Man ! err can you Cambo ?

Mr disco 99 wrote: So the muslims are angry that the Pope quoted someone as saying that islam was a violent religion. So they respond with violence. Awesome! Way to prove a point.

I think the Pope should have better judgement and orator skills. He WAS a school teacher before, so possibly he hasn't "fit" into the role just yet....hopefully he grows with these events to be a bit better at explaining himself without unnessicarily pissing alot of people off.

Some earlier mentioned the Crusades being similar to what I mentioned earlier....it is not. Granted there we many people killed in both cases due to religious belief, but the main BIG difference is that Jesus did not go out killing people because people wouldn't change their beliefs...mohammed did. The main charator, head effigy, in the religon caused bloodshed, thus why Muslims believe it is ok to do so. The Crusades were first launched because the Muslims were aggressive and feared that they would overtake Christian Europe....it did go on waaaay toooo long though and the main purpose was lost.

jesus was a jew. it was his followers who said otherwise (son of god, all that). muhammad was considered the first muslim and was/is not considered the son of god. i have no idea what difference this makes or what i'm saying--except maybe that until 1948 jews didn't make very good killing machines?

EdelBrock wrote: I think the Pope should have better judgement and orator skills. He WAS a school teacher before, so possibly he hasn't "fit" into the role just yet....hopefully he grows with these events to be a bit better at explaining himself without unnessicarily pissing alot of people off.

Some earlier mentioned the Crusades being similar to what I mentioned earlier....it is not. Granted there we many people killed in both cases due to religious belief, but the main BIG difference is that Jesus did not go out killing people because people wouldn't change their beliefs...mohammed did. The main charator, head effigy, in the religon caused bloodshed, thus why Muslims believe it is ok to do so. The Crusades were first launched because the Muslims were aggressive and feared that they would overtake Christian Europe....it did go on waaaay toooo long though and the main purpose was lost.

Well, that is simplifying it a bit. Yes there are parts of the Koran that teach that it's OK to kill in the name of Islam. However, there's parts of the Old Testament where Yahweh encourages people to do the same... so it's not just an Islam thing. Hell, even the Hindus have fought in wars.

There's a hell of a lot more in the Koran, and in the Bible, that teaches tolerance and understanding. I've been around the block and seen lots of different kinds of people, and I've observed that despite differences in religious or political leanings, most people around the world are not that much different from us. Most of us like sunny days. Most of us like to eat. Most of us love or at least respect our families. Most of us want to be productive members of society. Most of us have a fundamental regard for human life and take no pleasure in hurting others.

There are going to be dickheads on both sides of any conflict, though.

I think you missed my point. The Koran does teach tolerance, however Muhammed, in his lifetime, forced people to either follow his teachings or die. Granted this is a very simplistic view and it's a little more complicated, but mohammed believed that forceful spread of religon was acceptable; Jesus did not. So people aren't following the Koran, in tolerance, but following the last prophet's actions; forceful spread of the Muslim religon.

Regardless, religon has it's good aspects, but with the wrong people in charge, and misinterpreting for thier own power-mogering has caused much unnessicary bloodshed.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

Tex wrote:

I'm sure Theo Van Gough and the Italian nun may disagree with you.........

So you're saying we SHOULD be scared?

To be frank, there are enough beer drinking, breast emporioum attending, multiple gun owning crackers in our neck of the woods for me to rest easy.

Now, if I lived in Detroit, that would be a different story altogether.

EdelBrock wrote: I think you missed my point. The Koran does teach tolerance, however Muhammed, in his lifetime, forced people to either follow his teachings or die. Granted this is a very simplistic view and it's a little more complicated, but mohammed believed that forceful spread of religon was acceptable; Jesus did not. So people aren't following the Koran, in tolerance, but following the last prophet's actions; forceful spread of the Muslim religon.

Regardless, religon has it's good aspects, but with the wrong people in charge, and misinterpreting for thier own power-mogering has caused much unnessicary bloodshed.

And on this I'll agree with you. Yes, much violence has resulted from a perversion of religious ideals. And yes, Mohammed was a military leader as well as a relious one.

However, I think that has less to do with the state of the world today than just the result of poorly thought out post-colonial politics in that very strategic region. Anywhere you have societies that feel they deserve more than they're getting, you're going to have extremism and violence, no matter what religion they are.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: I think you missed my point. The Koran does teach tolerance, however Muhammed, in his lifetime, forced people to either follow his teachings or die. Granted this is a very simplistic view and it's a little more complicated, but mohammed believed that forceful spread of religon was acceptable; Jesus did not. So people aren't following the Koran, in tolerance, but following the last prophet's actions; forceful spread of the Muslim religon.

Regardless, religon has it's good aspects, but with the wrong people in charge, and misinterpreting for thier own power-mogering has caused much unnessicary bloodshed.

And on this I'll agree with you. Yes, much violence has resulted from a perversion of religious ideals. And yes, Mohammed was a military leader as well as a relious one.

However, I think that has less to do with the state of the world today than just the result of poorly thought out post-colonial politics in that very strategic region. Anywhere you have societies that feel they deserve more than they're getting, you're going to have extremism and violence, no matter what religion they are.

Too many over reactions to any criticism of Islam. Killing nuns and burning churches because the Pope quoted a 14th century text during a lecture is wrong. Both sides need better PR people and damage control expertern.

Wino wrote: The way I read it was the Pope actually said "I quote" before quoting the said 14thc Emperor. He also apologised twice attempting to explain that 'they were not his words'.

Christianity isn't exactly innocent where a violent past is concerned,but in 'these times',maybe he shouldn't have asked Bush's boys to write his speech. Not exactly well known for tact.

What the heck was the context of the quote though? Was he saying "this is the sort of nonsense my predecessors used to come out with - fortuately we've moved on now" or was he saying "to quote someone who said it much better than I can..."?

Anyway, seeing a Catholic and a Muslim going at it (no, not in _that_ way) on News 24 just confirmed my belief that all religions suck. Religious belief is immoral, in my view. A sin, even. Its selfishly believing in something that clearly isn't true just to make yourself feel better, and it usually ends up hurting others. Normally I try not to pick fights with believers, but this Pope row and that documentary about the believers in 'the rapture' the other night have gotten me irate. Even if there is a God, most of the actual existing Gods of organised religions appear to be thoroughly immoral and bigoted tossers and disobeying them is surely a moral imperative, even if one is going to be punished with hellfire for it?

i think some muslim just dont read what the pope has said and are going on what their clerics are saying, i.e. anything their clerics say they go along with

A satiric local paper said that Benoit XVI apologises because he was not speaking of Muslims but of Jews...

I think both are just dumb to make hideous remarks about any religion. I'm quite glad I'm an atheist with no religion; I look beyond the imaginary boundary "religion" that many people tend to create.

Islam is a person?