California Vs The Car Industry

The State of California is suing the motor industry for making cars.

Is this one of your jokes?

They should counter sue California for being on the west coast.

BBC

Guardian

Don't ever question me again

Freaking left-wing liberals at their finest! Considering CA probably uses more gas than 1/2 the other states combined, seems a bit contradictory. So these people that are sueing (good ol' greenpeace), what do they get around in? I bet they have been using automobiles! Maybe they should sue themselves for their part in global warming. Damn left-wingers.

Left-wingers like, err, Governor of California Arnie Schwarzenegger? He's declared war on global warming and paved the way for this case. I thought he was a Grand Ol’ Party boy?

Or left-wingers like the lawyers on both sides, who will surely be the only winners from crappy action like this? A similar action against energy companies failed miserably, no doubt leaving all sides with huge legal bills. So only the lawyers who encourage taking the action stand to make anything at all.

What they're actually attacking is the car industry’s record in failing to produce an eight litre V8 engine that can pull and cool a ten-seater SUV without using any petrol or leaving any emissions.

A truly left-wing government would promote improved and safer public transport to discourage the use of such beasts. Raise Gas prices too: focuses the mind.

CA is a VERY liberal state. The only way for a Republican to become governor was to have a liberal bankrupt the state kicked out of office and be a middle-of-the-ground type Republican. Arnold is by no means a right-winger or good ol' boy.

This is definately not a conservative type action, look at who filed it: Democratic attorney general, Bill Lockyer

And those that support it: Friends of the Earth's Climate Justice Programme and Sierra Club......Greenpeace organizations.

I lovethis State, but I hate the politics in it.

Ah yes, the grand old argument: corporate responsibility vs personal responsibility.

I make the SUVs that everybody wants to buy.

I only buy the SUVs because that's what they tell me to buy.

So what is it? Do we make corporations responsible for the products that they make or do we punish those who decide to purchase them.

Let's make up our minds before we go any further with these absurd court cases.

V !

EdelBrock wrote: CA is a VERY liberal state. The only way for a Republican to become governor was to have a liberal bankrupt the state kicked out of office and be a middle-of-the-ground type Republican. Arnold is by no means a right-winger or good ol' boy.

This is definately not a conservative type action, look at who filed it: Democratic attorney general, Bill Lockyer

And those that support it: Friends of the Earth's Climate Justice Programme and Sierra Club......Greenpeace organizations.

I lovethis State, but I hate the politics in it.

Clearly your definition of left-wing falls some way to the right of mine!

This odious court action looks more like the self-serving antics of career politicians and lawyers to me, certianly having no roots in left-wing values that I recognise.

I'm surprised to hear Arnie described as a liberal. The last time he hit the headlines over here was when he refused to consider the appeal of an elderly man who'd spent most of his life on death row.

But you live there and I don't, so you see more than I do.

I've heard, but not sure, that some countries left/right wing are slightly different than the US.

Now Arnold sold himself as a middleground Republican in the election. Afterwards both parties have been mad at him as he'll take liberal stances on subjects conservatives are staunchly against; and then liberals will get mad at him for making conservative judgements whn they thought he was middle of the road.

Arnold isn't easily classified in the political "wings", he makes decisions as he sees them more than by any Party's stance.

****reread my last postand I may have written it bad, Gray Davis was the liberal governor that was impeached for almost bankrupting the state... thus is how Arnold got into office

Are you generally in favour of Arnie then?

I wonder of Arnie gave up that big ol' gaz guzzling Hummer he loves so much.

Something has got to be done about the needless use of resources and if the US government won't do anything about it then it can only be good that someone is making a stand.

If it takes Arnie to raise awareness of environmental issues and the impending problems then I'm all for it even if it is a bogus court case that will never be won.

As for Arnie, I guess I'm for him. There is absolutely no balance in California politics. It slants EXTREMELY to the left. Personally I think there should be a balance between the two, right-wings and left-wings (and no extremists).....Arnie isn't the best, but I really don't think a right winger that could balance the power could ever be elected here. So he's the best compromise.

The problem I have with this court case is:

1. Alot of taxpayer dollars are going to be wasted needlessly for this bogus case.

2)It ties up our courts with bogus cases.

Arnold isn't the one doing this case, people are only piggybacking his hard stance on global warming....I think to try to win over some conservative support.

EdelBrock wrote: It slants EXTREMELY to the left.

Christ! Let's start a campaign for Glastnost in California!

Frankly I don't get it. most car makers build economic and relatively little polluting automobiles. It isn't exactly their fault that the American public doesn't seem particularly compelled to buy them.

As long as a product is legal, it should be availiable for sale. I see this case failing. There are better ways to compell the public to switch to less polluting vehicles, like raising fuel taxes. Alas that may just be too unpopular a measure to consisder.

EdelBrock wrote:

The problem I have with this court case is:

1. Alot of taxpayer dollars are going to be wasted needlessly for this bogus case.

If you're worried about taxpayers dollars being needlessly wasted you need to look at US foreign policy to make greater savings

EdelBrock wrote:

Arnold isn't the one doing this case, people are only piggybacking his hard stance on global warming....I think to try to win over some conservative support.

So what? It is the single biggest issue facing the world and the first thing that is needed is awareness, the US has a greater capability to alleviate the problem than any other country yet those that run the country are unwilling to do anything about it because the status quo is lining their pockets.

I'm not so sure that "nothing" is being done about it. There simply aren't any alternative fuels that would have a great enough impact to replace gasoline. If people didn't care about the enviroment, and need to be "made aware" as you are stating, then why are hybrids in such popular demand that they can't build them fast enough?

Surely it's about lifestyle chnage so you don't make journeys you don't need, use smaller cars, use public transport, export clean technologyb at low cost/free of charge etc,?

Well I wish it were that easy. The main problem CA has is the way it's spread out. Most places there is one city where everyone works and public transportation takes them to one basic area. However Southern Calif is so spread out, there is no real deviation from suburbia and metroplian life. Where I live I have San Diego County, Los Angelos County, Riverside County, San Bernidino County, and Orange county all with in 45 minutes of each other. Each is so spread out, you simply can't do anything without a car. (reminisent of the Missing Person's Song "Walking in L.A."). I wish I could live where I want, but housing is soexpensive. New housing is being built in the East, further away from everything, and my 1500 sqft house (Ibought 3 years ago for $250,000)is now worth $465,000....because there is a terrible housing shortage out here. Commuting is a nessisary evil, that I really don't see a good alternative, unless there is a complete tear down and rebuilding of buildings, creating a metroplian area.

Trust me, as I hate commuting, if there were a possible solution, I'd jump on that bandwagon.

Don't commute, change the lifestyle and it isn't just California it is the whole world.

lucyjane wrote: Don't commute, change the lifestyle and it isn't just California it is the whole world.

easier said than done. american cities like ours here are very spread out and a 30 km commute to and from work is common as there is very little job supply in the residential suburbs.

whole cites would have be rebuilt to the more compact european model.

i don't see that happening anytime soon.

some of the answers are more econmicial cars and alternative fuels. public transport is often impractical as it turns a 20 minute car ride into an hour plus bus ride.

alternative fuels such as hydrogen would be the way to go. I see hybrids as an evolutionary wrong turn for car design as they don't particularly do either well in petrol or elecric form and you always have to carry the huge additional weight of a battery around.

you can for get about elecric cars as well as the power those run off comes from both coal fired and nuclear power stations.

As I said earlier it is not the automobile manufactures' fault that the public don't like their more economic vehicles.

Sorry LJ. I'm not having a go at you here.

Then again, Global warming is only a threat to Human civilization, not as the treehuggers would have you belive, to the whole planet. They forget that this Earth has been all covered in ice and had bleak arid deserts as far North as Siberia. Unless we actually manage to boil the oceans off, we'll only hurt ourselves. Same goes for all human threats to "nature"....we'll fuck ourselves up a treat, maybe even by letting off all our nukes or those nice diseases the US make and store in leaky bunkers. But within an eyeblink ( a million years or so), Nature will be back on form, and wont have us to piss her off.

The only idea dumber than that we could save the planet, is that we could do the buger any real harm in the first place.

Doctor? wrote: Then again, Global warming is only a threat to Human civilization, not as the treehuggers would have you belive, to the whole planet. They forget that this Earth has been all covered in ice and had bleak arid deserts as far North as Siberia. Unless we actually manage to boil the oceans off, we'll only hurt ourselves. Same goes for all human threats to "nature"....we'll fuck ourselves up a treat, maybe even by letting off all our nukes or those nice diseases the US make and store in leaky bunkers. But within an eyeblink ( a million years or so), Nature will be back on form, and wont have us to piss her off.

The only idea dumber than that we could save the planet, is that we could do the buger any real harm in the first place.

thanks Doc. these days when even mainstream politicians accept that global warming is a real phenomenon.

of course you are right that there have been much colder and much hotter conditions on earth in the past. As a mater of fact I do beieve that we are over due for another ice age.

Still i dare say that global warming due to human activity is a reality.

NOOLigan wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Then again, Global warming is only a threat to Human civilization, not as the treehuggers would have you belive, to the whole planet. They forget that this Earth has been all covered in ice and had bleak arid deserts as far North as Siberia. Unless we actually manage to boil the oceans off, we'll only hurt ourselves. Same goes for all human threats to "nature"....we'll fuck ourselves up a treat, maybe even by letting off all our nukes or those nice diseases the US make and store in leaky bunkers. But within an eyeblink ( a million years or so), Nature will be back on form, and wont have us to piss her off.

The only idea dumber than that we could save the planet, is that we could do the buger any real harm in the first place.

thanks Doc. these days when even mainstream politicians accept that global warming is a real phenomenon.

of course you are right that there have been much colder and much hotter conditions on earth in the past. As a mater of fact I do beieve that we are over due for another ice age.

Still i dare say that global warming due to human activity is a reality.

Oh yessum, we are currently in a period described as interglacial.....meaning this is just a teabreak between ice ages.

Maybe we should buld vast industrial carbon scrubbers and use the extracted to CO2 to begin terraforming mars.....OR we could just keep on murdering each other over fairy tales and oil.

I think there's no doubt we are contributing, but the to what amount, I'm not believing. Scientists and treehuggers have been giving results on theories and hypothesises with little true knowledge. The science and testing is so new there is no way we can tell if we really are impacting as the what is being explained.

Granted, that's no reason for a "sit and wait" method, but some, if not most, of this global warming is natural.....

EdelBrock wrote: I think there's no doubt we are contributing, but the to what amount, I'm not believing. Scientists and treehuggers have been giving results on theories and hypothesises with little true knowledge. The science and testing is so new there is no way we can tell if we really are impacting as the what is being explained.

Granted, that's no reason for a "sit and wait" method, but some, if not most, of this global warming is natural.....

Ah, disavowal. What a wonderful thing. You not going to see "An Inconvenient Truth", then?

It's about the truth (global warming is very real), and how it's inconvenient (the planet is pretty much fucked).

I hear it's pretty good.

EdelBrock wrote: I think there's no doubt we are contributing, but the to what amount, I'm not believing. Scientists and treehuggers have been giving results on theories and hypothesises with little true knowledge. The science and testing is so new there is no way we can tell if we really are impacting as the what is being explained.

Granted, that's no reason for a "sit and wait" method, but some, if not most, of this global warming is natural.....

I never cease to be gobsmacked by such stupidity. Every time environmental issues are raised we have some moron telling us there is no evidence, without coming up with any evidence of their own. Wake up, one of your major cities was wiped out last year FFS.

The planet has been warming at an increased rate since the industrial recvolution and that rate is increasing. Weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels will rise, water will be scarcer, mass migration will take place from those places most affected, conflict will ensue.

And with a lying greedy arsehole in charge of the one country most capable of stopping this I think the result is inevitable.

[orange]Retroesque[/orange] wrote: I wonder of Arnie gave up that big ol' gaz guzzling Hummer he loves so much.

Actually, yes, he did. (He had more than one, btw.)