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France and UK merging? that almost happened apparently!

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France and UK considered 1950s 'merger' News blog: Fritain? Brance?

Staff and agencies Monday January 15, 2007 Guardian Unlimited

Britain's then-prime minister Sir Anthony Eden discussed a 'union' deal with his French counterpart.

Britain and France talked about a "union" in the 1950s, even discussing the possibility of the Queen becoming the French head of state, it was reported today. On September 10 1956, Guy Mollet, the then French prime minister, came to London to discuss the possibility of a merger between the two countries with his British counterpart, Sir Anthony Eden, according to declassified papers from the National Archives, uncovered by the BBC.

A British cabinet paper from the period reads: "When the French prime minister, Monsieur Mollet, was recently in London, he raised with the prime minister the possibility of a union between the United Kingdom and France."

At the time of the proposal, France was in economic difficulties and faced the escalating Suez crisis. Britain had been a staunch French ally during the two world wars. When Mr Mollet's request for a union failed, he quickly responded with another plan - that France be allowed to join the British commonwealth - which was said to have been met more warmly by Sir Anthony.

A document dated September 28 1956 records a conversation between the prime minister and his cabinet secretary, Sir Norman Brook, saying:

"The PM told him [Brook] on the telephone that he thought, in the light of his talks with the French:

· That we should give immediate consideration to France joining the Commonwealth · That Monsieur Mollet had not thought there need be difficulty over France accepting the headship of her Majesty · That the French would welcome a common citizenship arrangement on the Irish basis."

However, this proposal was also eventually rejected and, a year later, France signed the Treaty of Rome with Germany and the other founding nations of the European common market.

"I tell you the truth - when I read that I am quite astonished," the French Nationalist MP, Jacques Myard, told the BBC today.

"I had a good opinion of Mr Mollet before. I think I am going to revise that opinion. I am just amazed at reading this, because since the days I was learning history as a student I have never heard of this. It is not in the textbooks."

No French record of the proposal appears to exist, and it is unclear whether there were any proposals for the name of the new union.

A spokesman for the French embassy said most people had been surprised by the revelation. "We are looking at our national archives," he said. "We cannot comment at this stage."

The idea of a link-up between countries was not unique. Between 1958 and 1961, Egypt and Syria merged to become the United Arab Republic in an initial move to establish a pan-Arab state.

The union broke up following a coup in Syria, but Egypt continued to call itself the United Arab Republic until 1971.

The BBC's Document programme will broadcast an edition on the proposed merger, called An Unlikely Marriage, at 8pm tonight on Radio 4

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Saw that! The United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales.... And France? :evil4:

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that would've worked well....

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That was the highlight yesterday (well, apart Presidential Election).

Still cannot believe it. The only good thing would have been to have more opportunities to see New Order live on this side of the Channel...

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Spotnick wrote:

No French record of the proposal appears to exist,

:laugh: the cheese munching rifle droppers destroyed the records.

Actually Charles de Gaulle lived in a house at the end of my road, during much of WW2 to escape German occupation. An elderly chap in my local used to say he was a right arrogant get.

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The ultimate rifle drop, no? :evil4:

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote: The ultimate rifle drop, no? :evil4:

Quite.

I heard it on the radio today. Made me stop the van.

Hilarious that a country four times the size of this island wanted to ermm... submit to us.

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Burt Reynolds wrote: Actually Charles de Gaulle lived in a house at the end during much of WW2 to escape German occupation. An elderly chap in my local used to say he was a right arrogant get.

Do you mean that, in case England had been invaded by the Germans, it was a good thing to collaborate with them ? Arrogant get or not ?

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Jiphy wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Actually Charles de Gaulle lived in a house at the end during much of WW2 to escape German occupation. An elderly chap in my local used to say he was a right arrogant get.

Do you mean that, in case England had been invaded by the Germans, it was a good thing to collaborate with them ? Arrogant get or not ?

Perhaps i should have not missed out the end of my sentence. :laugh: He basically lived at the end 'of my road'.

No.. just on a personal level. He used to drink in my local, and upset this particular guy (who incidentally is no longer with us). Apparently he behaved like he was royalty in there in terms of expecting everything free, although he was given a decent 'allowance' and a fantastic house by the British Government.

'get' best translates as 'git' in geordie speak, Jiphy.:laugh:

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Morning BURT:lol:

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ROCKET MICK wrote: Morning BURT:lol:

uh oh... 1.27am.. MICKS IN. Micks liver must be functioning again.

UH OH!

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Burt Reynolds wrote:

ROCKET MICK wrote: Morning BURT:lol:

uh oh... 1.27am.. MICKS IN. Micks liver must be functioning again.

UH OH!

Fraid NOT.Been playing badminton till 22:00 and cannot SLEEP so been reading JOY DIVISION booklet from BOXSET,Peter Kay's b00k and watching extra DVD from 24 HOUR PART PEOPLE.Now what the fcuk is the thread on about.It is damn serious BCD these days(see what i did BIGINOIL).Trust you are well BURT?

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ROCKET MICK wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

ROCKET MICK wrote: Morning BURT:lol:

uh oh... 1.27am.. MICKS IN. Micks liver must be functioning again.

UH OH!

Fraid NOT.Been playing badminton till 22:00 and cannot SLEEP so been reading JOY DIVISION booklet from BOXSET,Peter Kay's b00k and watching extra DVD from 24 HOUR PART PEOPLE.Now what the fcuk is the thread on about.It is damn serious BCD these days(see what i did BIGINOIL).Trust you are well BURT?

The thread is about the surrendering cheese monkeys across the channel begging us to take them under our wing, Mick. So it has a non serious comical angle.

I am fantastic after my recent trip up north Mr Rocket. All that Northern air and other things made my nostrils flare.:thumb:

My nuts are still hot and salty.

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You been sampling them again? :lol:

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Burt Reynolds wrote: Perhaps i should have not missed out the end of my sentence. :laugh: He basically lived at the end 'of my road'.

No.. just on a personal level. He used to drink in my local, and upset this particular guy (who incidentally is no longer with us). Apparently he behaved like he was royalty in there in terms of expecting everything free, although he was given a decent 'allowance' and a fantastic house by the British Government.

'get' best translates as 'git' in geordie speak, Jiphy.:laugh:

Well, I think we have the same point of view on this character. And I would not be so surprised if he is the one who got rid of these files... I think Churchill and de Gaulle sum up very well the love and hate between our two countries. Then, he became President in 1958, so no way of a great entity including UK and France after his comeback as politician. UK had to wait his death to enter the EEC...

I think 1956 put an end to our common dreams. Not this story but the affair of the Suez canal. A wonderful coup de force but the USA and the USSR told us not to go any forward pretending that we were "hasbeens" and that we were no more the nations we used to be before 1914.

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:eek3:

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I'd rather be merged with France, than live in the 51st state of jesusland.

BTW, you left out NI whoever was listing the bits of the UK above.

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Doctor? wrote: I'd rather be merged with France, than live in the 51st state of jesusland.

BTW, you left out NI whoever was listing the bits of the UK above.

I thought NI was a part of Great Britain, but not a "kingdom," as are England, Scotland, and Wales. Is that not correct?

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Ah, i just wikipedia'd it and see my mistake. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We'll have to do something about that when you lot become the 51st state of Jesusland.

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Great Britain=England Scotland Wales UK=England Scotland Wales and NI (parts of it anyway :D ) British Isles=England Scotland Wales, NI, ROI, IOM, Channel isles, rockall, the lot.

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Doctor? wrote: Great Britain=England Scotland Wales UK=England Scotland Wales and NI (parts of it anyway :D ) British Isles=England Scotland Wales, NI, ROI, IOM, Channel isles, rockall, the lot.

So is the Union Jack the flag of the UK or of Great Britain? My understanding is UK. Does Great Britain have a flag then? Or is it just the flags of the constituent nations?

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Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

UK is short for... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Each country within the UK has it's own flag of course.

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:scream: :yawn:

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Well, it had been on the cards several times before. Agincourt, Les Vielles Charrues (famous Viking invasion of Brittany in 2005, let ye forget).

France is a beautiful country, and almost every Frenchman I've got to know is a good person. Put 'em all together though...... :evil4:

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Seem to remember there was talk between our two nations a few years back about housing the English overspill in vast estates across Northern France, which is so sparsely populated.

We can turn the entire area in Kent, mk II.

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Doctor? wrote: Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

UK is short for... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Each country within the UK has it's own flag of course.

Also has Isle of Man (or one of the channel islands) on there.

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Doctor? wrote: Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

UK is short for... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Each country within the UK has it's own flag of course.

UK is short for fcuk all.

Had anyone ever genuinely used 'the UK' before t'internet linked the world? I hadn't. I'm English, British at a push. Leave all the Unionist shite to the Royalists and Uber-Prods. Also, puts us right near the bottom on most 'dropdowns'.

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I'm from Liverpool. I say that abroad. never say England. :nod:

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Doctor? wrote: Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

Leak eaters? :barf:

Nothing from the Taffs as they were annexed and part of the 'Kingdom of England' back along.

It's called the 'Butcher's Apron' by the Bogtrotters and it's apparently illegal to hoist it on a boat as it's reserved exclusively for Her Majesty's Ships :eek:

I thought France and the UK merged back in 1973??:rolleyes:

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El Jarvo wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

UK is short for... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Each country within the UK has it's own flag of course.

UK is short for fcuk all.

Had anyone ever genuinely used 'the UK' before t'internet linked the world? I hadn't. I'm English, British at a push. Leave all the Unionist shite to the Royalists and Uber-Prods. Also, puts us right near the bottom on most 'dropdowns'.

I know. Right pain in the arse that.

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El Jarvo wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Actually I think the union flag (it's only the union jack if flown on a ship) only contains England, scotland, and NI, nothing from the leak eaters ( I think).

UK is short for... United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Each country within the UK has it's own flag of course.

UK is short for fcuk all.

Had anyone ever genuinely used 'the UK' before t'internet linked the world? I hadn't. I'm English, British at a push. Leave all the Unionist shite to the Royalists and Uber-Prods. Also, puts us right near the bottom on most 'dropdowns'.

Right or wrong, that's the legal definition of the term, and what it says on all government documents.

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For what it's worth... we have lived together for 250 years or so now, we survived :lol:

So France and England can live together, we're the proof of that ;)

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no fcuking way jose! after the Germans us ENGLISH hate those froggy bastards with a vengeance,same as the yanks really,us brits always pulling frogs and yanks out of the shit!

Would have never have worked,mind you we would have had a better standard of living,our farmers would have had more e.u sibsidies and...........

Na would never have worked...

P.s we do like French Canadians tho!

Then again,we do still "own" Canada :evil4:

P.P.S i'm not being racist or political' i'm just :nuts:

:nuts:

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:nuts: wrote: Na would never have worked...

Just the idea of using the guillotine with Her Majesty...

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I always assumed that Great Britain started calling ourselves United Kingdom so that we could sit right next the United States at the UN meetings?

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BIGINOIL wrote: I always assumed that Great Britain started calling ourselves United Kingdom so that we could sit right next the United States at the UN meetings?

excellent ! you must be right !

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Spotnick wrote: For what it's worth... we have lived together for 250 years or so now, we survived :lol:

So France and England can live together, we're the proof of that ;)

Which is why Quebec wants to be its own country? :scratch:

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It's only the English (parochial xenophobes) who hate the French (and anyone else from abroad or with a different skin colour). The Scots have always had a European, (indeed a world) outlook, culturally as well as geographically. Find a history book (that doesn't use "British" as a synonym for English) and look up the "Auld Alliance" (yes it's an auld alliance between the Scots and French), Scotland & France have always had a long term freindship.

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MIMX wrote: It's only the English (parochial xenophobes) who hate the French (and anyone else from abroad or with a different skin colour). The Scots have always had a European, (indeed a world) outlook, culturally as well as geographically. Find a history book (that doesn't use "British" as a synonym for English) and look up the "Auld Alliance" (yes it's an auld alliance between the Scots and French), Scotland & France have always had a long term freindship.

Fcuk me, a Scotsman calling the English 'racist'? :eek3:

Isn't there a kettle somewhere you should be calling an uppity negrah?

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MIMX wrote: It's only the English (parochial xenophobes) who hate the French (and anyone else from abroad or with a different skin colour). The Scots have always had a European, (indeed a world) outlook, culturally as well as geographically. Find a history book (that doesn't use "British" as a synonym for English) and look up the "Auld Alliance" (yes it's an auld alliance between the Scots and French), Scotland & France have always had a long term freindship.

I always find this fact amazing : On the roads of France, you can see British cars with a Scottish sticker on which is written Ecosse (that is Scotland in French). Also... First match of the world cup held in France in 1998 : Brazil vs Scotland. I found myself in front of the Gare du Nord (French terminal of the Eurostar). I saw light in a pub, I came in. The pub was overcrowded with Scots wearing kilt drinking while waiting for the first train. As I was almost the only Frenchman in this pub, they said me this sentence, engraved in my memory : "We, the Scots, have two national teams. - How that ? - The Scottish one and the one which plays against England !"

And another fact, not concerning Scots. The garden of remembrance in Dublin. It is written in Gaelic and French, not a single word of English...

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That Hadrian wasn't such a daft sod.....

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Tim wrote: That Hadrian wasn't such a daft sod.....

thought he was a rastafarian with that pronounciation:evil4:

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El Jarvo wrote: Fcuk me, a Scotsman calling the English 'racist'?

Well done mate. 1st to spot the inherent anti-English bias in that post. It's a real problem in Scotland: during the world cup a bunch of teenage assholes in Edinburgh battered a wee boy (11 or 12) for wearing an England football top & a disabled guy was dragged out of his car in Aberdeen and assulted because his motor had a small St George's cross on it. Nationalism a cancer on homo sapiens that needs to be ruthlessly cut out!

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In fairness though...the Scots only hate the english ( and oddly, the Welsh only hate the English, and the Irish only hate the English....can't recall any IRA bombs in Cardfiff or Edinburgh). To many English, oh what's that expression in that Tom Sharpe book.....oh yes..."wogs begin at Calais".

However, since everyone[1] in London (the alledgedly rudest place in England) was SERIOUSLY pleasant to me, I've decided to take it easy on Engerlanders for a while :D

[1] including a few folks from lundon underground, who are supposed to be the shock troops of nastiness.

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I work for a mostly french company, and since they took us over a few years ago, conditions have improved. ie 35hr week, annual bonus, more family friendly centred policies. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the UK had actually merged with France.

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darran clarke wrote: I work for a mostly french company, and since they took us over a few years ago, conditions have improved. ie 35hr week, annual bonus, more family friendly centred policies. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the UK had actually merged with France.

If you want a French point of view... No 35 hours, no annual bonus, together from Suez to Algiers and then to Iraq... 60 millions of French with 60 millions of Brits do not make the balance with the mighty US foreign policy...

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