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THIS IS ENGLAND; SHANE MEADOWS, ALAN CLARKE, RICHARD ALLEN AND JOE STRUMMERS LAST GREAT CLASH SONG ..... ARE WE DUE ANOTHER TELEGRAPH/MAIL/EXPRESS OVER-REACTION ?

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Being of the age-group that eagerly passed the original Skinhead/suedehead books around the school yard whilst smoking a menthol bifta 'round the back of the bikesheds ( anyone else first bifta a consulate menthol ? )and of a now sufficiently middle-aged mindset to be amazed how much an original copy of skinhead can set the more nostalgic back! Also I came of a legal drinking age just before the third wave of popular skin culture hit the streets circa 82/83, so it's with some sadness/trepidation that I await the inevitable backlash from the Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph axis. Sadness because I believe that Shane Meadows is one of our most gifted filmakers/storytellers and his film ( This is England )is an examination on a movement whose first incarnation is rooted in the rude-boys,soul,ska and reggae, and to some extent Northern soul of my own youth, and how this movement had some sections politicised by the far right. This to all intents and purposes hijacked the movement,the flag and the look itself becoming linked in a worried publics eye as the ugly face of racism.

So, will the ensuing debate be reasoned or hysterical ? are we any further on from Skin=racist ? I already see echoes of the football matches of my youth in recent events, though ( and I dont know if this is an age thing )it does seem more sinister, back in the day I was a part of the Scoreboard paddock at Old Trafford and a ruck was over colours and some notion of pride, I relate this with neither shame or pride, it was part of my growing up,part and parcel of belonging to a gang... we could debate the pro's and cons of belonging to a gang some other time, but for now I'll take an old fella's option and say on record that events; and the undercurrent to them, in Europe worry me.

And after all, how much of the skinhead look has filtered into mainstream popular culture, Ben Shermans and number one buzzcuts, DM's a popular/sensible footwear choice etc ? Most of my mates and their grown up kids have what could be described as a skinhead, I myself sport what used to be a suedehead,from office culture to the blue collar sector,a fella with a shaven head,a number one or two is a common sight, a haircut is no longer seen as a threatening thing... is it ?

So just as it seems the flag has been reclaimed post England world cup/Euro cup, will the meedja hype set us back years again? Remember perceived fears sell newspapers. Does middle England suspect that under each Hoody there lurks a skin?

Comments please on Shane Meadows, Richard allen, Alan Clarke, Morrissey at Finsbury, Madness et al. And was 'This is England' the last great Strummer/Clash song? Jones had long gone but lyricaly the song is up there with the best, the parent album though.....

For myself I hope that the film isn't lost or hijacked in these times of a rising political right, the immigration debate etc. Or perhaps you feel it should be, or even deserves to be.

Apologies if this, or any of the post's content subject has been debated recently' I missed it, I nipped out for a spanner like Benny all those years ago ( a midlands reference for ya ) For you young folk and oldies alike, some suggested reading/listening and viewing: Alan clarke's Made in Britain Jubilee by Jarman The last of England by Jarman The Skinhead books by Richard Allen Steel Pulse, Toots and the Maytals Don Letts and Strummer biogs.

please post some/add some films,music and books to the above list.

GaryMac re-dux

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Funnily enough I was speaking to my mam yesterday about my new interest in the Pistols, my mam only went as far as a bit of black eye make up in the late 70's cos she considered herself too soft to be a punk. But she did mention that I have to see This Is England, I have never heard of Shane Meadows if I'm honest Gary, but I will definitely keep an eye out for this film. I have been downloading a lot of Pistols stuff from punktorrents.com, it has loadsa Clash stuff an all, but nothing I don't already have thanks to your good self.

Same goes for Jubilee, I know I've seen that, but never recorded it. Filth & The Fury should be added to your list of films, I really enjoyed that and have lent it to my mate Malky.

Westway To The World & Rude Boy also must see's.

Good to see you back on here, sent you a text a month or so ago, but guess you must've been on a Benny Hill break :thumb:

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I'd like to second Jarman's "Jubilee" and "The Last of England," though he's got plenty of other good stuff as well. NSFDM (Not Safe for Digital Mike)

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ShugZV wrote: Funnily enough I was speaking to my mam yesterday about my new interest in the Pistols, my mam only went as far as a bit of black eye make up in the late 70's cos she considered herself too soft to be a punk. But she did mention that I have to see This Is England, I have never heard of Shane Meadows if I'm honest Gary, but I will definitely keep an eye out for this film. I have been downloading a lot of Pistols stuff from punktorrents.com, it has loadsa Clash stuff an all, but nothing I don't already have thanks to your good self.

Same goes for Jubilee, I know I've seen that, but never recorded it. Filth & The Fury should be added to your list of films, I really enjoyed that and have lent it to my mate Malky.

Westway To The World & Rude Boy also must see's.

Good to see you back on here, sent you a text a month or so ago, but guess you must've been on a Benny Hill break :thumb:

Mornin wee shug, phone is back on, same number, broke four last year and had some downtime in protest! Heartily recommend Shane's early stuff, uses amateur cast mixed with pro's, he gave Paddy Considine a few great roles, they're from the same area/mates. Perhaps DigiM has access to, ahem; those slightly naughty yet pleasingly priced dvd's, it being Bank Holiday Monday I expect him to be punting his wares from a wallpaper table as we speak! I think you're spot on RE: Rude Boy, they caught a period when youth culture was becoming politically aware ( of both the left and right options ) and whilst for a while you could say it was of it's time, now with events both in europe and at home, it seems to have something to say again. I've been reflecting on the Never mind the Bollox album and wondering, how it would have sounded if it were to be written, recorded and released THIS YEAR as a fresh album, part of me feels it would probably be a little more vehement, then again who knows.... perhaps a 19 year old Lydon living in 2007 Britain would opt for the X factor! Who knows.

Mornin or is it evenin for you Pope, thanks for the reply, I realise this weekend is a tad busy for you, what with the Easter Bunny and that other stuff involving a ressurection shuffle... anyway I concur vis-a-vis Jarman, but surely Digi is a big fan of La Jarmans work with the PetShopFella's....

Oh and mornin DigiMike,a Cumberland sausage split in the middle with a smattering of chilli sauce, some fried onion relish and a fresh submarine roll sans that weird smattering of semolina dust... hearty fodder for the non-drinking Nool I'd say .

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hi garymac, a couple of books worth adding to your list: 'the soul stylists' by paolo hewitt(contains a good chapter about the origins of, and changes to, skinhead culture). 'casuals' by phil thornton (has several references to skinhead culture in relation to football fashion, also has several references to new order). both are well written and very entertaining.

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peteW wrote: hi garymac, a couple of books worth adding to your list: 'the soul stylists' by paolo hewitt(contains a good chapter about the origins of, and changes to, skinhead culture). 'casuals' by phil thornton (has several references to skinhead culture in relation to football fashion, also has several references to new order). both are well written and very entertaining.

Hi PeteW, thanks for the reply and two excellent suggestions the Paolo Hewitt one I was vaguely aware of and I'm glad for the reminder, the Thornton one I hadn't heard of but again is something I'm looking forward to reading, be on the Amazon or Abebooks site later, nice one fella:thumb:

incidentally if you're a new fella 'round here welcome and hope y'enjoy the place, been on a bit of a sabbatical meself, but the place keeps drawing me in, just when I think I'm out..... whoa gettin a bit Godfather Three aint I ?later :smoking:

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This is England is one of the worst Clash songs. its the clash by numbers, Strummer just going through the motions, before he finally put the dead dog of the clash out of its misery.

I myself was a bit of a scooter riding skinhead, and the genre was multi-facetted from the mod/suedehead side right through to the Oi! NF skin head types, (which the media unfortunately took as aspect of skinheads) Not forgetting the Socialist Redskins in the mix as well.

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darran clarke wrote: This is England is one of the worst Clash songs.

Yep....agree!!

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darran clarke wrote: This is England is one of the worst Clash songs. its the clash by numbers, Strummer just going through the motions, before he finally put the dead dog of the clash out of its misery.

I myself was a bit of a scooter riding skinhead, and the genre was multi-facetted from the mod/suedehead side right through to the Oi! NF skin head types, (which the media unfortunately took as aspect of skinheads) Not forgetting the Socialist Redskins in the mix as well.

gotta say the tour was deffo clash by numbers, yet quite a few people have fond memories of it possibly a bit of rose tinted nostalgia,that said I still like This is england,as for a real low clash by numbers and enough to make anyone question strumers sanity vis-a vis bernie rhodes it's gotta be 'we are the clash' woeful piece of garbage when all is said and done. Redskins excellent outfit, even if the politics didn't engage you the energy certainly did! What happened to Mensi of the Upstarts?

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hi GaryMac, thanks for the welcome to the site. Re. shane meadows' 'This Is England' - the film's already caused a bit of a stir despite not having been released yet. it's been given an 18 cert. which has annoyed the makers of the film as it is apparently partly aimed at younger people in order to warn against the dangers of racism. apparently though, some local councils are overruling the censors and are intending to show it with a 15 cert. cheers, pete.

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ShugZV wrote: Funnily enough I was speaking to my mam yesterday about my new interest in the Pistols, my mam only went as far as a bit of black eye make up in the late 70's cos she considered herself too soft to be a punk.

Yer mam is the same age as me? :eek:

GaryMac wrote: gotta say the tour was deffo clash by numbers, yet quite a few people have fond memories of it possibly a bit of rose tinted nostalgia..

Nah, that version of The Clash was ace. Those two guitarists Strummer brought on board took 'em back to basics. :bow2:

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

ShugZV wrote: Funnily enough I was speaking to my mam yesterday about my new interest in the Pistols, my mam only went as far as a bit of black eye make up in the late 70's cos she considered herself too soft to be a punk.

Yer mam is the same age as me? :eek:

GaryMac wrote: gotta say the tour was deffo clash by numbers, yet quite a few people have fond memories of it possibly a bit of rose tinted nostalgia..

Nah, that version of The Clash was ace. Those two guitarists Strummer brought on board took 'em back to basics. :bow2:

nice touch with the rebel wood Comprade:thumb: You and Ourkid are in agreement, as is me cousin, Ourkid's response surprised me as he dates back to the 16tons tour and I thought he'd be more classic line-up, however he thought at the time the Clash were gonna get a bit more hardcore, that said he also used to follow Wattie Buchanan and Exploited!My cousin though experienced his first Clash gig with the cut the crap line-up and so his live experience was dictated by that,to each thir own etc. If available on your side of the pond, I suggest the Strummer biog Redemption Song by Chris Salewicz, thanks for the input :thumb:

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this is england was a sad end to a great songbook,, the only decent song off cut the crap (only clash album not bought)was always going to stand out.

mick made a barbed point about being replaced by TWO people.

that said the c the c . tour wasnt to bad.

there is a rose i want to live for.

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And a round of applause to GARYMAC for making the LONGEST SUBJECT title since 2002.Brilliant post so EARLY in the morning Return of the MAC!:thumb: :lol:

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79 order wrote: mick made a barbed point about being replaced by TWO people.

Yeah, I suppose that's a good point for Jones to make, but really, those two guys-- Nick Shepard and Vince White-- brought a rawer punk sound back to the live shows. It was a good tour, I thought.

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