Please Advise: how many times do you deal with "sick kid" absenteeism before you give 'em their papers!?

So, at my job I've got a temp that started two weeks ago. I think the fact that she's a temp is important.

Anyway, she's not picking things up very quickly and requires a lot of hand holding, which wouldn't be a HUGE problem (but still annoying) if not for the fact that:

She's constantly coming in late and leaving early to deal with her 8 month crotch-droppling at daycare. I mean, 15 minutes here and there nothing major. But it adds up. She's also taking longer lunches. She did have the nerve to try and record full days on her timesheet though, and if she did it once, I'd let it go, but this time I made her fill it out correctly.

On Thursday (my last day in I have every other Friday off), she asked if she could leave at noon because she was feeling sick and her son's been sick for ages etc etc. I told her that she could leave when her work was done (after two weeks of starting late and leaving early asking to leave at 12 is just taking the fucking piss).

Today, I'm showing her how to do something else (she shouldn't even be still training but she's missing time and is slow to pick up) and she told me she'd have to leave at 2 today to take the baby to the drs, and that she might not be in tomorrow because she has a court date.

WHAT? I am pissed-off because I feel like I'm being taken advantage off. When she first started, I said, "you don't have to ask permission to use the bathroom and you can eat lunch when you feel like it. I just ask that you get your work done". So she's taking advantage of the fact that I am an "easy" person to work for as far as "get the work done and I don't give a fuck what you do". She's not really getting the work done, she's slow, and she's missing time.

My question is:

How long do I put up with the "had to deal with my kid" excuse? I mean, on one hand, she should really be allowing herself time to drop her kid off at daycare and be in here early enough so she could leave early without missing time. But I don't want to be "that guy" making life hard on single mothers... she's taking advantage of my liberal guilt. :P

Also, I'm really beginning to doubt if the kid is sick. I've now got the worst illness on the face of the universe, I wonder if she transmitted it to me... but that's an aside

Today really pissed me off, because I kinda gave her a "boss talk" on Thursday about it, and she had the fucking cheek to leave early today.

Would I be a bitch if I called my temp agency and told them to tell her not to come back? Is it unreasonable?

also, I'm feeling guilty because I've had to take a lot of time off this year for being sick and then for taking care of my mother who was doing really poorly after a heart attack and bypass. So I want to extend the same kindness that's been extended to me, but I 1) am not a temp 2) am not going to be able to take a day off until like November this year 3) had to take a cut in pay for when I was on sick leave and still getting paid. I also get my work done but still feeling guilty.

Fuck her, she'd be out the door by midday. Workshy by the sound of it and taking you for a right toby!

Personally, I think you would be better off if you let her go, I feel you will only get more stressed and the resentment might start to kick in! I know that feeling only too well, some people tried taking advantage of my good nature.

Hope it works out for you in the end...

ok i'm done.

I just looked at her timesheet from last week and she took half a day on friday.

edit: nevermind someone decided to send her home on Friday

Chrissy wrote: But I don't want to be "that guy" making life hard on single mothers...

You're a guy? OK, seriously, I'm glad I don't have your job. That is a tough decision to make. Even if her kid is sick and she has to come late & leave early, that's no excuse for the long lunches, and I'd say she needs to find a way to get the job done, even if it's short lunches. I'd say, if you've given her a couple of "boss talks" and laid down the law, and she continues to do the same stuff (or not do, as the case may be), I think a call to the temp agency to get a new temp might be in order.

I think the most important thing is to formally counsel her with a paper write-up, and a sit-down formal counseling session. This way if she tries to strike back for what ever reason, you have yourself covered to show that you put forth the effort to help her succeed, but she failed to grasp the basics.

the formal write up should state in brief, but clearly stating what duties that are hers. Where she is failing, where she is doing well, and possibly an area to have her put what she plans on accomplishing. Also a place for the both of you to sign. (Make sure it sounds "unattached" emotionally and not all negative, as if you are "going after her").

Counseling should start off "one-way" where you are stating what is on the paper, being the strong "boss-presence", then open the floor to an open conversation, on more friendly terms.

Canning her without this could get you into trouble.

You'd be suprised, sometimes a papertrail is something that keeps some people in-line and doing their job properly.

If you need I can email you an example formal counseling sheet.

Has Uncle Liam somehow got access to Chrissie's NOOL log-in???!!???

Steve One wrote: Fuck her, she'd be out the door by midday. Workshy by the sound of it and taking you for a right toby!

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Has Uncle Liam somehow got access to Chrissie's NOOL log-in???!!???

My favourite bit is where she makes a big deal of telling this poor burd that, "you don't need permission to go to the bathroom". That's soooo big of you ya feckin Nazi!

Did you by any chance get bullied at school Chris?

Theres a reason why she is a temp...... she cant hold down a permanent full time position. let her go before your own work starts to suffer.

Chrissie has a never ending problem with temps. Is there a reason?

darran clarke wrote: Theres a reason why she is a temp...... she cant hold down a permanent full time position. let her go before your own work starts to suffer.

Nail,head, hit

gazman wrote:

darran clarke wrote: Theres a reason why she is a temp...... she cant hold down a permanent full time position. let her go before your own work starts to suffer.

Nail,head, hit

Not strictly true.

Temps get paid more by the hour for one; plus they can 'usually' fit the hours in around other committments and also...............just testing the waters as to the kind of job they really want.

Don't blame her for doing that - but at least be honest and reliable. Shouldn't commit to anything unless you are willing to see it through.

Kath wrote:

gazman wrote:

darran clarke wrote: Theres a reason why she is a temp...... she cant hold down a permanent full time position. let her go before your own work starts to suffer.

Nail,head, hit

Not strictly true.

Temps get paid more by the hour for one; plus they can 'usually' fit the hours in around other committments and also...............just testing the waters as to the kind of job they really want.

Don't blame her for doing that - but at least be honest and reliable. Shouldn't commit to anything unless you are willing to see it through.

That may be true,

but this ones no very good at it..

:D

It's a tricky one Chrissi. Dedicated 'fluffers' don't grow on trees..Not every girl is suited to skullfucking

EdelBrock wrote: I think the most important thing is to formally counsel her with a paper write-up, and a sit-down formal counseling session. This way if she tries to strike back for what ever reason, you have yourself covered to show that you put forth the effort to help her succeed, but she failed to grasp the basics.

the formal write up should state in brief, but clearly stating what duties that are hers. Where she is failing, where she is doing well, and possibly an area to have her put what she plans on accomplishing. Also a place for the both of you to sign. (Make sure it sounds "unattached" emotionally and not all negative, as if you are "going after her").

Counseling should start off "one-way" where you are stating what is on the paper, being the strong "boss-presence", then open the floor to an open conversation, on more friendly terms.

Canning her without this could get you into trouble.

You'd be suprised, sometimes a papertrail is something that keeps some people in-line and doing their job properly.

If you need I can email you an example formal counseling sheet.

No need. The temp is a New Order fan and reads BCD regulaly, so she knows EXACTLY what Chrissy has been saying behind her back... :D

Old Blue wrote:

No need. The temp is a New Order fan and reads BCD regulaly, so she knows EXACTLY what Chrissy has been saying behind her back... :D

Good point, probably already emailed Nic about it as well, guess you're going to get the ban Chrissy:D

I have absolutely nothing against single mothers. Part of my work involves supporting young mums into jobs but I have to say it does sound like she is taking liberties here! It's unfair for other people to be carrying her workload.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Ace! Glad we have your approval, we're up there with the black, green, orange and purple people. Thing is, even as a mother, on my own, i've ALWAYS worked full time. I'm lucky enough to have people around me, who also have demanding jobs, that all muck in with the chilcare aspects when I start at 6 in the morning some days and finish at midnight!

It's a constant juggling act that makes working all the more stressful, trust me. Being a parent is the hardest thing a person can ever do, especially on their own and working, never under estimate that!

In my experince those who can't be fucked to work and take the piss if in employment are those who don't have kids, and at the end of the day if someone is not doing their job, who cares if they have kids or not? Should not even be an issue.

I work hard for my family and I don't expect to be judged, seek approval or be given 'chances' in jobs or in society by anyone for being a single parent.

You might want to read your first sentence! At the end of the day i've worked those shifts too, and although I love my parents and family, I survived working through Christmas and New Years. Not being with my son, however, on Christmas day would totally break my heart, no contest. And yeah, you are mean!

NOOLigan wrote: Chrissie has a never ending problem with temps. Is there a reason?

because they are temps and i'm not able to hire full time employees :(

do like i do and just work harder to make up for others lack of motivation.

i work for the government and they can't fire anynone.

why shldn't u change your name? wrote: do like i do and just work harder to make up for others lack of motivation.

but why should she? Chrissy shouldn't carry the can for work a temp fails to do. I'm a mother as well, and have always worked full time. It takes some organising and when your kid's ill it's a right pain, but it excuses no one to be taking the piss like this one. Good luck Chrissy on finding a better one.

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers. Part of my work involves supporting young mums into jobs but I have to say it does sound like she is taking liberties here! It's unfair for other people to be carrying her workload.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Quite right.

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Ace! Glad we have your approval, we're up there with the black, green, orange and purple people. Thing is, even as a mother, on my own, i've ALWAYS worked full time. I'm lucky enough to have people around me, who also have demanding jobs, that all muck in with the chilcare aspects when I start at 6 in the morning some days and finish at midnight!

It's a constant juggling act that makes working all the more stressful, trust me. Being a parent is the hardest thing a person can ever do, especially on their own and working, never under estimate that!

In my experince those who can't be fucked to work and take the piss if in employment are those who don't have kids, and at the end of the day if someone is not doing their job, who cares if they have kids or not? Should not even be an issue.

I work hard for my family and I don't expect to be judged, seek approval or be given 'chances' in jobs or in society by anyone for being a single parent.

You might want to read your first sentence! At the end of the day i've worked those shifts too, and although I love my parents and family, I survived working through Christmas and New Years. Not being with my son, however, on Christmas day would totally break my heart, no contest. And yeah, you are mean!

Like I said. Nothing against single parents - or any parents at all if they are doing the job in the same way as others that are on the same salary and also have commitments. Where I worked that did not happen and it went completely unchallenged by a manager who told other staff that the parents would complain if they didn't get all the holidays off. It's unfair for someone to work in a pub and expect other people to do all of the hours that they don't want to.

Rosie wrote:

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Ace! Glad we have your approval, we're up there with the black, green, orange and purple people. Thing is, even as a mother, on my own, i've ALWAYS worked full time. I'm lucky enough to have people around me, who also have demanding jobs, that all muck in with the chilcare aspects when I start at 6 in the morning some days and finish at midnight!

It's a constant juggling act that makes working all the more stressful, trust me. Being a parent is the hardest thing a person can ever do, especially on their own and working, never under estimate that!

In my experince those who can't be fucked to work and take the piss if in employment are those who don't have kids, and at the end of the day if someone is not doing their job, who cares if they have kids or not? Should not even be an issue.

I work hard for my family and I don't expect to be judged, seek approval or be given 'chances' in jobs or in society by anyone for being a single parent.

You might want to read your first sentence! At the end of the day i've worked those shifts too, and although I love my parents and family, I survived working through Christmas and New Years. Not being with my son, however, on Christmas day would totally break my heart, no contest. And yeah, you are mean!

Like I said. Nothing against single parents - or any parents at all if they are doing the job in the same way as others that are on the same salary and also have commitments. Where I worked that did not happen and it went completely unchallenged by a manager who told other staff that the parents would complain if they didn't get all the holidays off. It's unfair for someone to work in a pub and expect other people to do all of the hours that they don't want to.

Which is poor management! No? You can't expect the law to give people who have have no dependants (not just parents)the same working rights as those people that do have dependants? There's a reason why the work laws are more flexible for people who have responsibilities to others, and others that are dependant on them! It allows them to be able to work AND deal with their responsibilities. e.g, coming in an hour later to work because of chilcare arrangements and leaving earlier from work too. It's not because they are lazy and can't be bothered to get in on time or work late!

A common resentment of this is from those who don't have responsibilities, but, is it fair that someone who doesn't have that level of responsibility can go in work late and leave early, just because a person thinks they should and not for a genuine purpose? Just to knock off early fro the sake of it and to have the same rights as someone who has a genuine reson for flexibility?

I'm still first in work and last to leave (after taking my son to school and then travelling on train to work) No body else has the ouside responsibilities I do in my office. Yet, they have poor time keeping and slack off early just to get off to their commitments that largely revolve around social lives? I don't feel hard done by it, but, I don't expect people to stick their noses in the air if on the odd occassion I have to get my son early from school or my childcare breaks down and I have to compromise.

And, If I have a commitment to my child for a particular reason and It's between me and a colleague to travel round the county on a certain day - why can't that person with no responsibility sacrifice their time for a day or evening?

I worked in a pub too. Shift hours are never fair when working holidays etc... it's the name of that game, although, as I said in my opening sentence it's poor managemnet to not balance the holidays equally and with compromise to all staff. That's a different issue altogether.

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote:

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Ace! Glad we have your approval, we're up there with the black, green, orange and purple people. Thing is, even as a mother, on my own, i've ALWAYS worked full time. I'm lucky enough to have people around me, who also have demanding jobs, that all muck in with the chilcare aspects when I start at 6 in the morning some days and finish at midnight!

It's a constant juggling act that makes working all the more stressful, trust me. Being a parent is the hardest thing a person can ever do, especially on their own and working, never under estimate that!

In my experince those who can't be fucked to work and take the piss if in employment are those who don't have kids, and at the end of the day if someone is not doing their job, who cares if they have kids or not? Should not even be an issue.

I work hard for my family and I don't expect to be judged, seek approval or be given 'chances' in jobs or in society by anyone for being a single parent.

You might want to read your first sentence! At the end of the day i've worked those shifts too, and although I love my parents and family, I survived working through Christmas and New Years. Not being with my son, however, on Christmas day would totally break my heart, no contest. And yeah, you are mean!

Like I said. Nothing against single parents - or any parents at all if they are doing the job in the same way as others that are on the same salary and also have commitments. Where I worked that did not happen and it went completely unchallenged by a manager who told other staff that the parents would complain if they didn't get all the holidays off. It's unfair for someone to work in a pub and expect other people to do all of the hours that they don't want to.

Which is poor management! No? You can't expect the law to give people who have have no dependants (not just parents)the same working rights as those people that do have dependants? There's a reason why the work laws are more flexible for people who have responsibilities to others, and others that are dependant on them! It allows them to be able to work AND deal with their responsibilities. e.g, coming in an hour later to work because of chilcare arrangements and leaving earlier from work too. It's not because they are lazy and can't be bothered to get in on time or work late!

A common resentment of this is from those who don't have responsibilities, but, is it fair that someone who doesn't have that level of responsibility can go in work late and leave early, just because a person thinks they should and not for a genuine purpose? Just to knock off early fro the sake of it and to have the same rights as someone who has a genuine reson for flexibility?

I'm still first in work and last to leave (after taking my son to school and then travelling on train to work) No body else has the ouside responsibilities I do in my office. Yet, they have poor time keeping and slack off early just to get off to their commitments that largely revolve around social lives? I don't feel hard done by it, but, I don't expect people to stick their noses in the air if on the odd occassion I have to get my son early from school or my childcare breaks down and I have to compromise.

And, If I have a commitment to my child for a particular reason and It's between me and a colleague to travel round the county on a certain day - why can't that person with no responsibility sacrifice their time for a day or evening?

I worked in a pub too. Shift hours are never fair when working holidays etc... it's the name of that game, although, as I said in my opening sentence it's poor managemnet to not balance the holidays equally and with compromise to all staff. That's a different issue altogether.

It is bad management on that occasion but I'd also like to point out that people who don't have children also work long hours. I am at work by 7.00 most mornings and don't leave until after 7 on an evening (usually thrown out by the caretaker at this point). I do this just about every day and lose about 25 hours a month that I don't get paid for. I have no issue with hard work and don't mind this. I work with vulnerable young people that rely on me. Wouldn't dream of letting them down and in this job - there are no issues around equality or holidays. There are parents that leave early for child care reasons regularly, or need to be off when their children are ill and I fully support them - I regularly cover their duty slots so they can do this. I have no issue with this at all.

I did have an issue with the work I did at the pub as there was a distinct inequality. I am well aware there are a number of women who do not use child care as an excuse not to work when they don't want to (my mother was one of them - bringing up 3 children on her own and I work with some amazing young mums who juggle far more than most of us have to imagine). I think that it has to be accepted though that there are some who do use children as an excuse. Like you pointed out - there are some people without children who are lazy too - but that is not all of us. It needs to be fair.

Spotnick wrote: Don't those people have probations?

I just ended mine (6 months!) so now I can't get fired without notification hehe.

Seriously though, when you START a new job, you should be PERFECT and only get loose when you know people around.

if she's like that now... just imagine in 6 months when she will know she can do anything!

I am somebody who is always late (nobody is suprised here), though it's not that important for my job and I got a freaking cold/flu about 7 times this winter starting last october, so I think my job was very patient with me, but that is just plain unacceptable.

Not sure if temps have probation periods but don't think they have the same employment rights - I've seen some people be treated awfully by employers but if they haven't been employed for two years, it's difficult to get anyone to do anything about it.

Rosie wrote:

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote:

Bonzette wrote:

Rosie wrote: I have absolutely nothing against single mothers.

I also remember working in a pub when I was at university and having to work double shifts on Christmas day and all bank holidays-actually any holidays - so people with kids could be with their families. I did begrudge that as people without kids have families too! A bit mean perhaps but equality should be for all, not just parents

Ace! Glad we have your approval, we're up there with the black, green, orange and purple people. Thing is, even as a mother, on my own, i've ALWAYS worked full time. I'm lucky enough to have people around me, who also have demanding jobs, that all muck in with the chilcare aspects when I start at 6 in the morning some days and finish at midnight!

It's a constant juggling act that makes working all the more stressful, trust me. Being a parent is the hardest thing a person can ever do, especially on their own and working, never under estimate that!

In my experince those who can't be fucked to work and take the piss if in employment are those who don't have kids, and at the end of the day if someone is not doing their job, who cares if they have kids or not? Should not even be an issue.

I work hard for my family and I don't expect to be judged, seek approval or be given 'chances' in jobs or in society by anyone for being a single parent.

You might want to read your first sentence! At the end of the day i've worked those shifts too, and although I love my parents and family, I survived working through Christmas and New Years. Not being with my son, however, on Christmas day would totally break my heart, no contest. And yeah, you are mean!

Like I said. Nothing against single parents - or any parents at all if they are doing the job in the same way as others that are on the same salary and also have commitments. Where I worked that did not happen and it went completely unchallenged by a manager who told other staff that the parents would complain if they didn't get all the holidays off. It's unfair for someone to work in a pub and expect other people to do all of the hours that they don't want to.

Which is poor management! No? You can't expect the law to give people who have have no dependants (not just parents)the same working rights as those people that do have dependants? There's a reason why the work laws are more flexible for people who have responsibilities to others, and others that are dependant on them! It allows them to be able to work AND deal with their responsibilities. e.g, coming in an hour later to work because of chilcare arrangements and leaving earlier from work too. It's not because they are lazy and can't be bothered to get in on time or work late!

A common resentment of this is from those who don't have responsibilities, but, is it fair that someone who doesn't have that level of responsibility can go in work late and leave early, just because a person thinks they should and not for a genuine purpose? Just to knock off early fro the sake of it and to have the same rights as someone who has a genuine reson for flexibility?

I'm still first in work and last to leave (after taking my son to school and then travelling on train to work) No body else has the ouside responsibilities I do in my office. Yet, they have poor time keeping and slack off early just to get off to their commitments that largely revolve around social lives? I don't feel hard done by it, but, I don't expect people to stick their noses in the air if on the odd occassion I have to get my son early from school or my childcare breaks down and I have to compromise.

And, If I have a commitment to my child for a particular reason and It's between me and a colleague to travel round the county on a certain day - why can't that person with no responsibility sacrifice their time for a day or evening?

I worked in a pub too. Shift hours are never fair when working holidays etc... it's the name of that game, although, as I said in my opening sentence it's poor managemnet to not balance the holidays equally and with compromise to all staff. That's a different issue altogether.

It is bad management on that occasion but I'd also like to point out that people who don't have children also work long hours. I am at work by 7.00 most mornings and don't leave until after 7 on an evening (usually thrown out by the caretaker at this point). I do this just about every day and lose about 25 hours a month that I don't get paid for. I have no issue with hard work and don't mind this. I work with vulnerable young people that rely on me. Wouldn't dream of letting them down and in this job - there are no issues around equality or holidays. There are parents that leave early for child care reasons regularly, or need to be off when their children are ill and I fully support them - I regularly cover their duty slots so they can do this. I have no issue with this at all.

I did have an issue with the work I did at the pub as there was a distinct inequality. I am well aware there are a number of women who do not use child care as an excuse not to work when they don't want to (my mother was one of them - bringing up 3 children on her own and I work with some amazing young mums who juggle far more than most of us have to imagine). I think that it has to be accepted though that there are some who do use children as an excuse. Like you pointed out - there are some people without children who are lazy too - but that is not all of us. It needs to be fair.

Of course there are some poeple that use children as an excuse and this is the same across the board! Those that don't want to work will find an excuse, whoever they may be!

The majority of jobs/ carrers now have some level of equality and sickness/ annual leave systems that enable fairness to all workers. It's quite right that there should be a balance in the work place and I think we are both in agreement that a work environment like a Pub is a very different situation that does not provide equal holidays and time off to the employees.

Seperatly to the other issues we have discussed I do still strongly believe that there is a justified case to have employment laws for those with dependants, for the reason outlined in earlier posts, and do not think that this specifically puts those that do not have dependants at a disadvantage.

Dependants or not, both you and I end up in the same situation at the end of each month - with many hours lost and unpaid for!

Yes. I suppose we do. I do think though that there are times when people without dependants also need time away from work. There are other commitments. I applied for a job for 10 hours a week on top of my course. I ended up working 30 plus per week due to other peoples commitments and had to give up my job as I couldn't maintain it with other commitments in my life. The reason I was working that many hours and being rung to go in at a minutes notice was due to others claiming to have issues around child care. I know that many of those issues weren't genuine.

It's a shame that there are some people (both with and without dependants) that take advantage of situations to get the rest of us a bad name. I must admit,over christmas, I'd have liked to have time to see my family too. Not be out at 10-00 for an 11-00 opening then in at 4 and out again at 5 to be ready for evening opening. One of the girls I worked with whose father had cancer missed the last christmas with him and we were told it was so people could spend christmas with their kids. Its a balancing act. We all have priorities. Pub work is a nightmare to manage I guess.

Chrissy wrote: also, I'm feeling guilty because I've had to take a lot of time off this year for being sick and then for taking care of my mother who was doing really poorly after a heart attack and bypass. So I want to extend the same kindness that's been extended to me, but I 1) am not a temp 2) am not going to be able to take a day off until like November this year 3) had to take a cut in pay for when I was on sick leave and still getting paid. I also get my work done but still feeling guilty.

Give her the boot. Sounds like you have enough stress in your life without this temp..... :\ohwell: