Non- Americans out there... What is going on Iraq?

Cambo, this is the stuff I'm talking about. This was reported on the news, so you're regurgetating it. I don't doubt that this kind of thing happens before declaring war, but you have to look further than simply Rummy trying to draw parallels. There were MANY factors that played into this. It takes more than money and one person's desire for war for the US to go to war... thinking that it does is such a simpleton point of view.

anyone wondering how the war was sold to the american people should watch this Bill Moyers special. very interesting. i think it's on youtube and other places also.

Iraq & Afganistan - Its all completely fucked up.

we need to pull our troops out asap.

EdelBrock wrote: Cambo, this is the stuff I'm talking about. This was reported on the news, so you're regurgetating it. I don't doubt that this kind of thing happens before declaring war, but you have to look further than simply Rummy trying to draw parallels. There were MANY factors that played into this. It takes more than money and one person's desire for war for the US to go to war... thinking that it does is such a simpleton point of view.

The simplistic view is that leaders know better than you, will only act for the good of mankind and to accept that.

Get out of the military mindset.

What exactly has been achieved in Iraq?

Apparently Elvis is still dead today. Well that's been making the news here, so that must be more important than what is happening in the real world.

NOOLigan wrote:

What exactly has been achieved in Iraq?

Ooh! Oooh! I know the answer!

America and its "allies" now have multitudes more radical enemies than when we went in. Hooray for global instability!

EdelBrock wrote: Cambo, this is the stuff I'm talking about. This was reported on the news, so you're regurgetating it. I don't doubt that this kind of thing happens before declaring war, but you have to look further than simply Rummy trying to draw parallels. There were MANY factors that played into this. It takes more than money and one person's desire for war for the US to go to war... thinking that it does is such a simpleton point of view.

Of course, but the point is..... there was no connection to sept 11, no connection to the ficticious Al-Q, and no fucking womads.

Everything we learn is from SOME source, all you can do is evaluate the information based on who is giving it.

Doctor? wrote: Also American's are tight fisted bastards, why pay for oil when you can steal it.

Is the USA stealing oil? From a cynical standpoint I hope they are getting something out of this, what is the point of fascism without results?. The media/gov't is pretty quiet about the Iraq oil. They have gotten the USA consumers used to having the price point of the price of gas DOUBLED (I doubt the oil companies are complaining, much room for cynicism there), so they don't talk much about the oil.

The only point of invading Iraq was that they thought it would be easy to topple the Iraq gov't and set up a puppet state with a permanent military presence to intimidate the region... but what then...? Cheney is interviewed in a clip from 1994 that getting rid of Saddam would result in a "quagmire" in Iraq... and he was right. So what is "goal" now?

I bet Cheney will retire eventually for "health reasons" from the Vice Presidency to jump ship from this lame duck presidency.

Doctor? wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: Cambo, this is the stuff I'm talking about. This was reported on the news, so you're regurgetating it. I don't doubt that this kind of thing happens before declaring war, but you have to look further than simply Rummy trying to draw parallels. There were MANY factors that played into this. It takes more than money and one person's desire for war for the US to go to war... thinking that it does is such a simpleton point of view.

Of course, but the point is..... there was no connection to sept 11, no connection to the ficticious Al-Q, and no fucking womads.

Everything we learn is from SOME source, all you can do is evaluate the information based on who is giving it.

You are correct that there weren't ties to AlQueda or 09-11, but in the enterance of the war never (as far as I can recall) was it stated that there were ties. The main difference is that we were trying a new course of action. We knew that Bin Laden had set up terrorist attacks before, but we were always reactive. Saddam showed instability by shoving the finger to the UN, so the US (President and Congress included) decided to be proactive in the Midle East...the best correction, they believed, to the choices of the past.

Let's face it, the ME is a fucked up area, whether we do something or not. No matter how diplomatic, economic or by use of military; everyone complains of the outcome....and the suggestion of "well let's just leave them alone" is a naive approach to the issues over there. Was attacking the "right" thing to do? The history books will decide, but for now we have to do the best we can with the situation we are presented today....not all this rearview mirror critism (which takes no talent). Japan (which had a stable emperor to look up to) took 10 YEARS to stabalize, but it turned out fine.....

and Nooli, please disassociate the assumption that military people are groomed to follow all orders without thought...granted many Communist countries act that way, but that is far from how we are trained. That assumption is an insult to all men/women in uniform.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: anyone wondering how the war was sold to the american people should watch this Bill Moyers special. very interesting. i think it's on youtube and other places also.

thanks popey! quite long but very interesting. I'm finished with 2/5 of the documentary already. About to watch Chapter 3 now.

Indeed*!*