A proposal for a more beautiful world.

If you do not like animal testing, you avoid animal tested products, right? If you oppose fox hunting, you do not buy your shopping from the supermarket who's manager runs the local hunt. You oppose the human rights abuses in some country or other, so you never buy things made there.

Well, if you are a religious type, who constantly decries science as evil, constantly says "it's a theory, it's not a fact"[1] surely you should live up to what anyone else would do for THEIR convictions (after all, the carpenter you get hard over let himself get nailed to a tree for telling people to stop being cunts to each other for 5 mins).

I therefor propose that fundamentalist Christians (and any other retards who base their life on different fairy tale books) be banned from the use of....

TV Internet telephone Medicine microphones public address systems electric light And basically everything produced by science (the devil). So they'll be preaching their intolerant message of "don't think, don't question, just blindly follow the word of god (as I interperet it for you)" standing on a mound of pigshit using a papre cone to speak through.....oh...wait....the cone would have been designed using scientific means of design, refine, redesign, so no cone then....just someone full of shit, standing on shit.

I can never figure why they only worhip bits of their book, for instance.....they CAN see

"if a man lay down with another man as he lies with a woman, they should be put to death" (yes, god hates fags) but not they bit that says that not blindly obeying your parents gets you stoned to death.....and not until you're 18 either, for life. Or the bit where they send the wife out to get gang raped so the man doesn't have to.

[1]electro-magnetism is a theory,and so are the quantumn principles which all semi conductor devicees depend on.

Where's this frustration coming from? Did Linux become a 'born-again' Cambo, and refused to work for a heathen?

Watching one of those vermin who hinder your country, yapping foamingly about science being bunk and the bible containing all the truth there was. He was doing it in an enormous conference centre, with a diamond screen and concert lighting, and a big fuck off sound rig.

I've read most of that shitty book (missed out a lot of begetting), and cannot recall ever seeing schematics for semiconductor design in it.

Oh and seeing a program featuring end-time loons who, again spout things about the bible being all the truth, and science being evil, and how if you don't believe this, you'll get left behind when they go to suck jesus off in the rapture...............ON A MOTHERFUCKING WEBSITE.

ENOUGH.

Can't have it both ways.

PS, plenty of religious softwware for linux, that's fine by me, they have a right to their insanity, they just don;t have a right to fuck others up with it.

he has a point, but please don't encourage him. Fundamentalists of all persuasions are dangerous.

NOOLigan wrote: he has a point, but please don't encourage him. Fundamentalists of all persuasions are dangerous.

Even fundementalist Linux users like good ol' Cambo here?

Chris Nash wrote: Steve - want to smoke one of my non - scientific herbal remedies? Oh. Maybe not... you wouldn't be able to dry it, roll it in anything or light it.

But I will

EdelBrock wrote:

NOOLigan wrote: he has a point, but please don't encourage him. Fundamentalists of all persuasions are dangerous.

Even fundementalist Linux users like good ol' Cambo here?

ESPECIALLY the likes of me

of course if YOU lot all stopped taking owt to do with Linux, you'd be screwed :D

So have you made yer offerings to yer buddy here yet today?

NOOLigan wrote: he has a point, but please don't encourage him. Fundamentalists of all persuasions are dangerous.

Good one Ron!...Fer you

Reminds me of a Babylon5 book I read once, it featured a group of fundamentalist physicists called Fermi's Angels.

Oh and I reckon JC (tho fictional) was cool, he fed people, sorted out the drinks and told everyone to be nice to everyone else. It's those who MISS that and go straight for the hate and taking the rest of the stupid book as fact that scare the piss out of me. FFS this country's been bombed stupid over whether or not little dead tin messiahs should be mounted on crosses or not.

Seen an Umurikan preacher the other day saying, "well of course all muslims are not terrorists, but so far all terrorists have been muslinms"....So they really DO only call it terrorism if they are not funding it.....or was Marty McGuiness an Iman in his spare time? (I would love to point out to such a sisterfucker that the USA was founded by a campaign of terrorism orchestrated by rich men who did not wish to pay tax to their lawful govt.)

Doctor? wrote:

...Well, if you are a religious type, who constantly decries science as evil, constantly says "it's a theory, it's not a fact"[1]... [1]electro-magnetism is a theory,and so are the quantumn principles which all semi conductor devicees depend on.

I think what you were trying to say/get at is that in everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." It's an explanatory system based on solid fact/s. As more data/datum (fact/s) become known/understood it may be open to revision or updating, but in science it is not mere opinion or fanciful faith ("I know it's true because I feel it is", "It must be true because it says so in the bible" etc). Also unlike "theories" in the the everyday sense scientists rigorously try to disprove their theories to make them more concrete, they don't set out to find any auld shit to back up their abstract prejudices.

If your still in doubt go jump off the tallest building you can find, 'cause the "theory" of gravitation will soon bring you back down to earth with a bump!

MIMX wrote:

If your still in doubt go jump off the tallest building you can find, 'cause the "theory" of gravitation will soon bring you back down to earth with a bump!

OI I been using that one (along with semiconductors) for years.

It's also a great one for persons who think that mind really does rule over matter and that chosing to ignore facts makes you imune to them.

Actually the most amusing thing is that the godtards hold a fairy tale with no basis over a theory, even IF we accept the common definition over the true one, that's daft.

Doctor? wrote: Actually the most amusing thing is that the godtards hold a fairy tale with no basis over a theory, even IF we accept the common definition over the true one, that's daft.

Dude come now... making fun of fundementalists and crazies is one thing....

Look the Old Testament is mainly a history of peoples and an explination of things to the best of their understanding of the time... I do find it silly that people don't see it for what it is...

The New Testament teaches how each person should live with each other... no reason to attack that with such venom...

I like the way Cambo has a ready to apply "Tard" for every perceived affliction...Anyone else notice that? What was the last one? "Godtards"

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Actually the most amusing thing is that the godtards hold a fairy tale with no basis over a theory, even IF we accept the common definition over the true one, that's daft.

Dude come now... making fun of fundementalists and crazies is one thing....

Look the Old Testament is mainly a history of peoples and an explination of things to the best of their understanding of the time... I do find it silly that people don't see it for what it is...

The New Testament teaches how each person should live with each other... no reason to attack that with such venom...

Still has no basis in fact. And it is rather my point that they ignore all the good bits. As far as can be worked out, the NT was written 100 years after the fictional JC croaked, so nobody involved could ever have met him. There are also a lot more than four gospels, but they were edited.....yup a human editiing "the word of god".

PS uour statement implies that Jews, Muslims, other types of idiot, and atheists, are all devoid of the knowledge needed to live a good life.

Steve,don't forget the new Testament is dated as being written 50-60 years after the death of Christ.....Go on,go on!!!

Edit: Apologies Cambo,let's make it 150 years to be on the safe side

Boatraceface wrote: Steve,don't forget the new Testament is dated as being written 50-60 years after the death of Christ.....Go on,go on!!!

Edit: Apologies Cambo,let's make it 150 years to be on the safe side

The dates vary as the time of christ varies, many of the gospels have him dying in about 40BC.

Surely they'd all agree if it were true....I mean Ian Curtis was real, and we KNOW when he was born and died, it's pretty basic info for a real person.

I can't believe I'm being sucked in but I've got five minutes to spare,sooo....

Do you at least acknowledge that life is somehow easier for those who blindly believe in this stuff,Cambo? Safe in the belief that it's all boxed off for them when they die if they have been a good person throughout their lives..infact KEEPING them a good person through this belief,where they may not have been...Not for them the chaos of uncertainty?It benefits others around them aswell,yes? That is the good angle of religion,no?

Wide open to corruption,and so often is the case,I know..

Five minutes C,clock's ticking Haway,Steve it's your thread..mammoth me with your tortured genius

My mother's understanding of the bible amazes me. She said : if we are all sons of God, then we all deserve to go to heaven. If we are like He is, then the neighbor bastard that spoils my current life will also spoil my eternal rest in heaven ! No way...

Doctor? wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Actually the most amusing thing is that the godtards hold a fairy tale with no basis over a theory, even IF we accept the common definition over the true one, that's daft.

Dude come now... making fun of fundementalists and crazies is one thing....

Look the Old Testament is mainly a history of peoples and an explination of things to the best of their understanding of the time... I do find it silly that people don't see it for what it is...

The New Testament teaches how each person should live with each other... no reason to attack that with such venom...

Still has no basis in fact. And it is rather my point that they ignore all the good bits. As far as can be worked out, the NT was written 100 years after the fictional JC croaked, so nobody involved could ever have met him. There are also a lot more than four gospels, but they were edited.....yup a human editiing "the word of god".

PS uour statement implies that Jews, Muslims, other types of idiot, and atheists, are all devoid of the knowledge needed to live a good life.

Aesops Fables aren't based on fact, but they allow the reader to understand a great deal... does that make them evil?

Whether or not Jesus was alive and did what is in the book may or may not be fiction. People write biographies of all sorts of people even today, the main difference is how society expects a book to be written. The first real, pure fact historian was Thucydides when he wrote about the Peloponnesian wars... his works were pretty much ignored, and thought to be bland and boring.

The same thought pattern to story-telling is still present in the M.E. In Iraq, the people don't talk in pure fact as Western cultures try, they add sensationalism so the listener understands their emotions during the time.

So thinking that the N.T. should be written in a purely scientific way just is not reasonable as that simply isn't how things were written during that time period.

I'm more inclined towards BRF's idea... every person needs some role model to help guide them in times of difficulty... Jesus isn't a bad example... neither is Mohammed (in the Koran form, not historical sense)... or many other religons out there... aethists still have some role model in their life....

but there are some that take the teachings out of context and corruption does exist... these things are completely terrible, I agree... but it does not limit the teachings...

Wee bit OT but...

Doctor? wrote:

MIMX wrote:

If your still in doubt go jump off the tallest building you can find, 'cause the "theory" of gravitation will soon bring you back down to earth with a bump!

OI I been using that one (along with semiconductors) for years.

There's a damn good chance I was usdiing it 5 years afore yeah...so nar-nar-nee-naar-nar

I loved Bill Hicks "if you think you can fly on LSD, don't jump out a forth floor window. Take off from the ground"!

:D Class!:D

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Actually the most amusing thing is that the godtards hold a fairy tale with no basis over a theory, even IF we accept the common definition over the true one, that's daft.

Dude come now... making fun of fundementalists and crazies is one thing....

Look the Old Testament is mainly a history of peoples and an explination of things to the best of their understanding of the time... I do find it silly that people don't see it for what it is...

The New Testament teaches how each person should live with each other... no reason to attack that with such venom...

Still has no basis in fact. And it is rather my point that they ignore all the good bits. As far as can be worked out, the NT was written 100 years after the fictional JC croaked, so nobody involved could ever have met him. There are also a lot more than four gospels, but they were edited.....yup a human editiing "the word of god".

PS uour statement implies that Jews, Muslims, other types of idiot, and atheists, are all devoid of the knowledge needed to live a good life.

Aesops Fables aren't based on fact, but they allow the reader to understand a great deal... does that make them evil?

Whether or not Jesus was alive and did what is in the book may or may not be fiction. People write biographies of all sorts of people even today, the main difference is how society expects a book to be written. The first real, pure fact historian was Thucydides when he wrote about the Peloponnesian wars... his works were pretty much ignored, and thought to be bland and boring.

The same thought pattern to story-telling is still present in the M.E. In Iraq, the people don't talk in pure fact as Western cultures try, they add sensationalism so the listener understands their emotions during the time.

So thinking that the N.T. should be written in a purely scientific way just is not reasonable as that simply isn't how things were written during that time period.

I'm more inclined towards BRF's idea... every person needs some role model to help guide them in times of difficulty... Jesus isn't a bad example... neither is Mohammed (in the Koran form, not historical sense)... or many other religons out there... aethists still have some role model in their life....

but there are some that take the teachings out of context and corruption does exist... these things are completely terrible, I agree... but it does not limit the teachings...

See that makes much sense, as does BRF. There are some, who's intellect or education does not permit them to comprehend how things really are, and for them, belief can be really positive. FFS I have a few kooky beliefs of my own. BUT there are problems....most obviously when a belief becomes a religion. From a purely theological point of view it makes no sense....how can any being's relationship with it's Gods be defined (and rigidly at that) by any creature other than itself. And also that religion denies rational thougght and supporesses questioning;particularly jesusism and particularly though not exclusively in the modern age....I mean ye olde monks did some hefty science, and Islam (real Islam, not bonkers jihadi shite) actively encourages scientific research in order to better understand God's wonders (and the Jews have Einstein...nuff said) ;).

Aesop's is an excellent analogy, and your point is fully valid. However, nobody suicide bombs anyone else over argument about whether the swan or the fox was the first poor host. And nobody has a TV channel pumping out "the north wind demands you kill the homosexuals, the christ killers and the heathen muslims", and I am sure there are no Aesop end timers praying for the rapture and actually doing all they can to fulfill their bonkers prophecy.

There is one other problem.....Aesop's advice is the work of Man, and is taken as such. The damn bible (thank you Penn Gillette for reminding me to always call it so), is a work of Man, but is claimed as the work of the flying spaghe..I mean god. Much of current fundamentalist Christian dogma has bollox all to do with the damn bible, but owes more to previous jesusloons. The Rapture and much of the other end of days stuff are examples.[1]

Think of this....that teacher has been locked up for causing religious offence in a country with a religious governemt, and westerners are outraged. BUT were the USA to become ruled by it's religious types, pooves would be sent to the gas chamber!!!

Believe it or not, when I meet a religious type, I am not obnoxious from the outset. I actually treat them with enormous respect. That remains the case unless they "start"...you know, preaching and spouting their immoral morals, and boasting of being "saved". There are some good christers, good jews and good muslims out there, who do their thing, and hurt no one. They are fine in my book (daft, but fine).

One thing I cannot tolerate though is the religious indoctrination of children. Tell them the stories, let them see the wisdom, but don't program them with all the bullshit that goes with it (7 literal 24 hour days, dinosaurs a test of faith, sun going round the Earth etc etc).

Professor Richard Dawkins raised one of the best points ever........

How can you be sure your religion is best? Did you try lots out, see which had the most elegant churches, catchiest hyms and prettiest stained glass windows, the one that felt most like what your own heart tells you about the nature of things? Or did you just pick up the first faith mum and dad left lying around?

Anyway the point of the thread was just that the evil end of the religious spectrum need to stop preaching that all science is evil and that the damned bible is the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth.....using the products of science. It's like the PETA VP who takes medicine made from dogs.

It's funny cos MMX mentioned Bill. I watched a tribute to him, and someone said "Bill was like Jesus, Jesus when he was pissed (off), like Jesus in the temple throwing out the money lenders", I think I may have a streak of that myself, maybe I want the religious to be happy in their delusion, as long as they are self consistant with it......Jesus said his dad's house was no place for money.....how does that (and the tale of the widow's mites) reconcile with "send jesus your money now on 1-800.....".

I reccommend the following viewing.....

The Root of all Evil by Prof Dawkins[2] The God who wasn't there, which is by a reformed christian and the doomsday code, Ch4

[1] On that subject...666 is a mistranslation, the number is 616. It is a Hebrew "punn", the way 616 is written resembles the way "nero" is written, The Beast is the Roman emperor and The Mark, is his coin. Oh and "the world" was the eastern Med down to the Gulf, so THAT's what would end, no fucker knew the USA or UK existed back then, and indeed the servants of god were often those shouting "flat earth" the loudest.

[2] Features a really pleasant Rabbi, who is so reasonable, even Dawkins can't rip him apart, as well as a vicar who I SWEAR is more like Ricky Gervais than Ricky Gervais. It also features some REALLY scary muslims and some US christians who make them look moderate.

Steve,

You should come round and have a "chat" with my born agian upstairs neighbour...

A few years ago we had an explosion in my street which knocked the power out. I did the nighbourly thing and invited her in for a chat and a glass of wine...

It was then she told me how she had stopped drinking after her "conversion experience". She had previously belonged to an italian jewish fanily which had since disowned her (this is so bad on so many levels!)...

Ever since then she has been "starting" on me to try and convert me. A hilarious waste of time, but somehow I have become her "project", her one to "save"...

I wouldn't mind too much really except for the fact the she plays her "spritual music" quite loud and sings (loosely used, that word) along at the top of her voice. Much more distressing than all of the ideological bollocks she talks. Sometimes as I pass her on the stairs she'll say "god loves you! If only you'd open up to him"... I might start asking her how she knows...

These people are often called "god-botherers" when really it' the rest of us that have to put up with all their shite...

Good thread this and enjoying the debate...

I'm not sure myself if religion per se is actually the problem but rather the poor deluded souls who "know" their way for the "true" way and who claim to speak for god and forgetting that the main messages of these creeds are really that we should be a bit nicer to each other and love each other a bit more

i'm Church of England i don't go to church. i do believe in God. but who knows?

but really, i don't think about it much.

is that was this is all about? coz i'm not reading all that waffle.

Someone told me the other day that they knew someone descended from Jesus. What you call it, the davidic line or something? I said "mad one, cos I'm related to Captain Kirk"

Well, if they can be related to a fictional character so can I.

I hear your pain Cambo. I'm a very religious person, but I don't go around spouting it off. Hell, my wife isn't even Christian and it doesn't bother me. I personally believe that if you lead a good example, that in itself is enough... lots of words are for people that can't complete the action...

On the kids being indoctrined, I don't think its bad, as long as yer not stunting their life with it. Kids need a stable enviroment and religon can help with that foundation. Plus it answers kids questions, like 'why should I not take my friend's toys' and stuff... but I don't want my children to stop there, I want them to learn about other religons, you actually understand more about your own when you do.

On the Bible being written by God is a total misquote that 'born-agains' use all too often... it actual says 'inspired by God'. So if I was inspireed to write about your life... it doesn't mean you told me what to write. I think there is a thin line that many draw 'written by God' conclusion, is that God is omnipotent and thus must have been present during its writing.. but that can be shattered easily since anyone can write anything against God, to which he would be present for as well...

But the idea of seperation of science and religon is really stupid, as it was the Muslim world that saved Greek/Roman science from the dark ages.. and then the Church just before the Muslim world closed off science in its religon. Its not just Christians that make this seperation, but it is mentioned by those that dispise religon. They love to say the Church stunted/stopped science, which is completely false. Its a misconception that was brought about at the end of the 18th century... and being taught in 'modern' school books as if it were true. But following the timeline of science shows that if it were not for religon, science would be lost a long time ago.

Religon has its place, but like anything it needs moderation. Anything out of moderation is just unhealthy.

But my biggest beef with Christianity is the denominations that don't accept each other. Squabbling over some of the stupidest parts of the Bible. This just makes it so aparant that so many really don't have a clue and totally miss the whole point... I've even had so many Prodestants tell me I'm not Christian because I'm Catholic... ???? do they not know that Christian means 'follower of Christ'? and Catholics DO follow Christ....

Unfortunately there seem to be more idiots out there, then people with sense... and the idiots are the ones that make the most noise...

This threads gonna turn into a gangfuck...... :conscience:

Can we stop talking about religion before it turns ugly,please!

P.s i am a Methodist but don't even know what "methodist" means !

I said not to encourage him. You know he can't stop.

i agree with steve on most parts ofthis one.i feel likeputting a "i love cock" embroidered picture and framed and putting it on my front door on sundays for when the jehovahs witnesses come around to doors.with a cd player and a tv remote control taped to the door as well.stupidly enough they go into peoples houses not realizing someone could be a serialkiller.

no, not the fat oldlady with an afro, surely she wont whackyou with an ax now will she?

i agree with steve on most parts ofthis one.i feel likeputting a "i love cock" embroidered and framed and putting it on my front door on sundays for when the jehovahs witnesses come around to doors.with a cd player and a tv remote control taped to the door as well.stupidly enough they go into peoples houses not realizing someone could be a serialkiller.

no, not the fat oldlady with an afro, surely she wont whackyou with an ax now will she?

NOOLigan wrote: I said not to encourage him. You know he can't stop.

You know, I will now, just to make you wrong

Animadversion wrote: i agree with steve on most parts ofthis one.i feel likeputting a "i love cock" embroidered and framed and putting it on my front door on sundays for when the jehovahs witnesses come around to doors.with a cd player and a tv remote control taped to the door as well.stupidly enough they go into peoples houses not realizing someone could be a serialkiller.

no, not the fat oldlady with an afro, surely she wont whackyou with an ax now will she?

I always invite the mormons in for tea. I once kept 2 JW's on the doorstep for 2hours enjoying my full on ranting. A credit that they stuck it out so long I suppose.

Best bet is to open the door and have a mate shout downstairs...."FFS hurry up will you, the goat's strugglin and it's messing the pentagram up".

Mate of mine used to live next to a church who were obsessed with putting their little lie-sheets through everybody's door. SOOOOO we made our own along the lines of "hey, life not going well, then why not get naked and take a bunch of drugs you tightarsed twat" and put about 20 of them through the church's door. Childish, but fun.

And finally, we made the mormons in the town freak out, but having at least 5 different people on 10-15 ocassions repeat the following to them PRECISELY when approached....

"Before you go any further my friend, I should warn you that I believe only in Nosebeaast, a giant worm who orbits the Earth and keeps it from all harm. Therefor, your religion, and all others are meaningless to me, I bid you good day in peace"

....and walk away.

you can imagine the talk at the tabernacle.......

"this guy started babbling about some nose beast or something today" "hey wow, me too" "yeah me too" etc MOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice to see I'm not the only one round here who's read The God Delusion (EdelBrock, I noticed that you mentioned some points from it). It's my favourite book of all time and the one that finally led me to stop believing in God earlier this year. I've never been a religious sort (my mum's side of the family is, though) but I did believe that God existed, until three years ago when my grandad (on my mum's side) died ten days after a botched operation. That shook my belief really badly and I started thinking "If there's a god, why do things like this happen?" Reading the book, though, was the real clincher. These days I believe more in the spirit world, past lives and reincarnation.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: So, if there was a God, nothing bad would ever happen???

Fuck, now I'm super confused...

Maybe I should put it another way. This is only my opinion but I reckon that, if there really were a god, none of the following would exist or ever happen (it's only a few examples; I could list more but my brain's too tired to think of any at the mo) :

1. Natural disasters
2. People dying before their time
3. Poverty
4. Sexism, racism and other forms of pointless hate
5. Crime

Simply put, if there really were a God, everything and everyone would be perfect, we'd all have great lives and there'd be no unnecessary unhappiness. The fact that life isn't perfect is, to me, proof that God doesn't exist. As I said, though, that's just my opinion.

Come now, that's just not reasonable:

1. Natural disasters These same disasters that kill people are the things that also allow for life to exist upon the planet... i.e. no natural disasters, no life

2. People dying before their time When is the PROPER time for people to die? Even if they didn't die 'before their time' we would then complain they ever died at all. If people didn't die then a world of mess would ever be in.

3. Poverty This is a man-made thing. We prize possessions, and because of this there will be those with and those without... this is hardly God's fault, as it is more our own.

4. Sexism, racism and other forms of pointless hate How about 'Godism' But seriously, we were given the ability to think on our own and come up with our own conclusions... our hates and fears stem from this... we could be devoid of these things, but then we would also be devoid of our own individuality...

5. Crime This is man made. If you think about it we never really own anything, and thus we never really have anything stolen. We brought in 'ownership' of things... but when we die we can't bring any of it with us... most crime are people trying to find the quick and easy route to power/money... both are man made (again by our ability to think on our own).... hardly God's fault.

The thing I at least look at to prove that there is: Science always works quite amazingly perfect. There are some anomolies that allow for change and evolution, but these are far from mistakes.

Miss Disco wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: So, if there was a God, nothing bad would ever happen???

Fuck, now I'm super confused...

Maybe I should put it another way. This is only my opinion but I reckon that, if there really were a god, none of the following would exist or ever happen (it's only a few examples; I could list more but my brain's too tired to think of any at the mo) :

1. Natural disasters
2. People dying before their time
3. Poverty
4. Sexism, racism and other forms of pointless hate
5. Crime

Simply put, if there really were a God, everything and everyone would be perfect, we'd all have great lives and there'd be no unnecessary unhappiness. The fact that life isn't perfect is, to me, proof that God doesn't exist. As I said, though, that's just my opinion.

That would be bloody boring.