Iowa Floods

Anyone else just sick and tired of this being reported? At first I felt sorry for the people, but at some point you have to slap them upside the head as they built thier homes in FLOOD PLAINS! Its called a flood plain for a reason!

The other stupid thing is how they keep showing how communities are sandbagging the levees to keep the rising waters out.... ummmmm... but if you look at basic physics, narrowing the space for water only increases its speed, it doesn't lessen the amount of water flowing through the area at a given time, so this leads to more devastating flash floods in thier area, and especially to people down stream....

I just don't know... wanna live in a flood plain, fine, but be smart and put yer house on stilts... or don't act soooo surprised when it goes under water

And could someone please stop all this excessive reporting about the Iraq war? At first it was depressing, but at some point you've just got to slap these fucking idiot Marines upside the head for joining the military at the risk of being killed. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of physics should know that a Jarhead isn't hard enough to stop a bullet. I don't know. Don't act so surprised when you run up against some resistance while committing your unjustified, neo-colonialist war crimes.

It's foolish to build in a flood plain...Unless the federal government lures you there with guaranteed flood insurance. Then it's an acceptable risk.

And as we're occasionally reminded, there's a reason that it's poor public policy for the federal government to build flood control projects designed to open up the flood plains for development.

Comrade Shampanyov wrote: It's foolish to build in a flood plain...Unless the federal government lures you there with guaranteed flood insurance. Then it's an acceptable risk.

And as we're occasionally reminded, there's a reason that it's poor public policy for the federal government to build flood control projects designed to open up the flood plains for development.

First, I'm not so sure its all the governments fault... its more man's arrogance(or more correctly engineers)in thinking that they can control nature if they build it right....

and while I agree with your first statement, at the same time, all these people that say "I just can't believe this is happening" must be complete morons.... I mean if there was a flood in the Great Basin area, then I would understand, but not anywhere along the Mississippi and its tributaries....

Dunno about the US, but over here the former floodplains are often the BEST place to buy a house. The councils sell the land and grant licences to build on the floodplains and the builders put in elevated foundations and underground defences against the water. Then that bastard Archimedes steps in and determines that the water needs to go somewhere. So suddenly properties that have never ever flooded, and therefore aren't built to resist the water, find that they are somewhat damp.

Sandbags aren't intended to keep the water out, just the crap that's in the water. Putting bags over your doorways might filter out some of the crap that floodwater contains (literally crap, the drains are given a nice wash by the floodwater).

Biginoil wrote: Dunno about the US, but over here the former floodplains are often the BEST place to buy a house. The councils sell the land and grant licences to build on the floodplains and the builders put in elevated foundations and underground defences against the water. Then that bastard Archimedes steps in and determines that the water needs to go somewhere. So suddenly properties that have never ever flooded, and therefore aren't built to resist the water, find that they are somewhat damp.

Sandbags aren't intended to keep the water out, just the crap that's in the water. Putting bags over your doorways might filter out some of the crap that floodwater contains (literally crap, the drains are given a nice wash by the floodwater).

I don't find a problem with people building in the floodplains, more that they act surprised by the fact... and that thier measures are actually causing more dangerous flash floods then the area ever had before. Doesn't seem people build their houses properly for the floodplains over here...

The sandbag use I'm refering to use them to hieghten the levees. Some levees were only built for 40 feet of water, and the water is expected to be at 47 feet in the river. They are using the sandbags to keep the water out in this instance....

EdelBrock wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov wrote: It's foolish to build in a flood plain...Unless the federal government lures you there with guaranteed flood insurance. Then it's an acceptable risk.

And as we're occasionally reminded, there's a reason that it's poor public policy for the federal government to build flood control projects designed to open up the flood plains for development.

First, I'm not so sure its all the governments fault... its more man's arrogance(or more correctly engineers)in thinking that they can control nature if they build it right....

Engineers in the Army Corps of Engineers, to be a little more precise. And who signs their paychecks?

EdelBrock wrote: and while I agree with your first statement, at the same time, all these people that say "I just can't believe this is happening" must be complete morons.... I mean if there was a flood in the Great Basin area, then I would understand, but not anywhere along the Mississippi and its tributaries....

Well, see, the feds build to a 1% flood standard (commonly and mistakenly called the "100 year flood."). That standard means that in any given year, there's a 1% chance of a flood that size occurring. What the government does not build to is the so-called "500 year flood," which has a .2% chance of happening in any given year. And it is that "500 year flood" that is happening in Iowa right now (something I had to check, on a hunch, because I haven't really followed the news), so it's a very rare flood event, and therefore perfectly understandable that people there would be shocked by its magnitude.

Every winter, I listen to Mr and Mrs How Dare the Govt let it Flood on this Flood Plain, go on and on and on and on and on. And also Mr and Mrs....Very Surprised That Storm Surges Cause Coastal Flooding.

Must be global warming, I mean it's not like there were massive coastal inundations in the 60's, not a drop of sea ever touched this sceptred isle.

Edel you live in a state that's known to have the odd earthquake. Move now, or it will be your own fault.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: And could someone please stop all this excessive reporting about the Iraq war? At first it was depressing, but at some point you've just got to slap these fucking idiot Marines upside the head for joining the military at the risk of being killed. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of physics should know that a Jarhead isn't hard enough to stop a bullet. I don't know. Don't act so surprised when you run up against some resistance while committing your unjustified, neo-colonialist war crimes.

I'm guessing you felt the same way in the mid-90's when the US engaged in an unjustified, non-UN approved, unilateral war of aggression in Bosnia?

Just checking.

NOOLigan wrote: Edel you live in a state that's known to have the odd earthquake. Move now, or it will be your own fault.

Welcome back Ron! Missed ya!

I hear you. I do know the faults around the area (no pun intended), and understand the risks associated... I won't be so shocked if damage does occur, but I'm far enough away from any faults that I shouldn't feel much where I live...

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov wrote: It's foolish to build in a flood plain...Unless the federal government lures you there with guaranteed flood insurance. Then it's an acceptable risk.

And as we're occasionally reminded, there's a reason that it's poor public policy for the federal government to build flood control projects designed to open up the flood plains for development.

First, I'm not so sure its all the governments fault... its more man's arrogance(or more correctly engineers)in thinking that they can control nature if they build it right....

Engineers in the Army Corps of Engineers, to be a little more precise. And who signs their paychecks?

EdelBrock wrote: and while I agree with your first statement, at the same time, all these people that say "I just can't believe this is happening" must be complete morons.... I mean if there was a flood in the Great Basin area, then I would understand, but not anywhere along the Mississippi and its tributaries....

Well, see, the feds build to a 1% flood standard (commonly and mistakenly called the "100 year flood."). That standard means that in any given year, there's a 1% chance of a flood that size occurring. What the government does not build to is the so-called "500 year flood," which has a .2% chance of happening in any given year. And it is that "500 year flood" that is happening in Iowa right now (something I had to check, on a hunch, because I haven't really followed the news), so it's a very rare flood event, and therefore perfectly understandable that people there would be shocked by its magnitude.

True that, they are the Army Corps of Engineers, and do get their paychecks from the government(though not to be mistaken with the Army. We had some ACE came to operate where I was in Iraq, holy crap they were geriatrics (in thier late 60's - 80's), I wondered what we would do if one of them had medical complications... we had mortars coming in everyday, so thought one of them would have a heart attack surely.... nice people though).

You are right on the 100 year flood thing, but we are increasing the flood sizes and causing more 100 year floods to occur. By taking out all the flood plains and replacing them with asphault and concrete, the water has no place to soak into the ground. Add the levees that decrease the area for water to move and you effectively are increasing the water's speed like putting yer thumb over the hose, not to mention the increase of water that does not reach floodplains. The sizes of the floods, the increase in occurances, and the damage are mainly from engineers thinking they can control the river.....

EdelBrock wrote: I hear you. I do know the faults around the area (no pun intended), and understand the risks associated... I won't be so shocked if damage does occur, but I'm far enough away from any faults that I shouldn't feel much where I live...

Edel, to be a fair comparison, let's put it this way: you know there are earthquakes, and under the law structures are required to be built to, or retrofitted to, a certain seismic standard. I don't know what that standard is, but let's say it's a 10.0 quake. That's pretty powerful earthquake-- greater than the largest earthquake ever recorded.

So, living in California, you expect earthquakes, but you also expect that seismic safety standards will provie some degree of protection for you. Then a 10.5 strikes, and structures crumble. The devastation is greater than anything you've ever imagined. So yes, you expect earthquakes, but did you expect the devastation you're now witnessing?

EdelBrock wrote: True that, they are the Army Corps of Engineers, and do get their paychecks from the government(though not to be mistaken with the Army. We had some ACE came to operate where I was in Iraq, holy crap they were geriatrics (in thier late 60's - 80's), I wondered what we would do if one of them had medical complications... we had mortars coming in everyday, so thought one of them would have a heart attack surely.... ice people though).

The army would be surprised to hear that...

The engineers you got were civilian employees of the army, but it's still an army command.

EdelBrock wrote: You are right on the 100 year flood thing

I'm right on everything.

EdelBrock wrote: but we are increasing the flood sizes and causing more 100 year floods to occur. By taking out all the flood plains and replacing them with asphault and concrete, the water has no place to soak into the ground. Add the levees that decrease the area for water to move and you effectively are increasing the water's speed like putting yer thumb over the hose, not to mention the increase of water that does not reach floodplains. The sizes of the floods, the increase in occurances, and the damage are mainly from engineers thinking they can control the river.....

I agree with you completely. If I had my way, they'd leave the rivers and the floodplains alone, and let nature run its course. I agree with you, they are arrogant in believing that they can control nature. They've screwed up everything they've touched, ruining ecosystems and increasing the amount of flooding that would naturally occur.

And a lot of people don't understand that there are still risks associated with living on a floodplain (I'd bet most people living on a floodplain are completely unaware of that fact), and thus are shocked when a 500 year flood hits.

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: I hear you. I do know the faults around the area (no pun intended), and understand the risks associated... I won't be so shocked if damage does occur, but I'm far enough away from any faults that I shouldn't feel much where I live...

Edel, to be a fair comparison, let's put it this way: you know there are earthquakes, and under the law structures are required to be built to, or retrofitted to, a certain seismic standard. I don't know what that standard is, but let's say it's a 10.0 quake. That's pretty powerful earthquake-- greater than the largest earthquake ever recorded.

So, living in California, you expect earthquakes, but you also expect that seismic safety standards will provie some degree of protection for you. Then a 10.5 strikes, and structures crumble. The devastation is greater than anything you've ever imagined. So yes, you expect earthquakes, but did you expect the devastation you're now witnessing?

EdelBrock wrote: True that, they are the Army Corps of Engineers, and do get their paychecks from the government(though not to be mistaken with the Army. We had some ACE came to operate where I was in Iraq, holy crap they were geriatrics (in thier late 60's - 80's), I wondered what we would do if one of them had medical complications... we had mortars coming in everyday, so thought one of them would have a heart attack surely.... ice people though).

The army would be surprised to hear that...

The engineers you got were civilian employees of the army, but it's still an army command.

Well, understanding the geology of the area, a 10.5 is pretty unlikely where I am at (actually very likely where you are though )... even so, if my home was damaged or god forbid, collapses, I wouldn't be in total shock, like a boulder falling out of the sky or something.

The ACOE is technically part of the Army, but there are no actual military personal in in its ranks (other than really, really high), they are all civilians, usually the top engineers in our country. Its hard to get in, GI Bill isn't ppaving the way to 'enlistment' in the ACOE.

Tex wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: And could someone please stop all this excessive reporting about the Iraq war? At first it was depressing, but at some point you've just got to slap these fucking idiot Marines upside the head for joining the military at the risk of being killed. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of physics should know that a Jarhead isn't hard enough to stop a bullet. I don't know. Don't act so surprised when you run up against some resistance while committing your unjustified, neo-colonialist war crimes.

I'm guessing you felt the same way in the mid-90's when the US engaged in an unjustified, non-UN approved, unilateral war of aggression in Bosnia?

Just checking.

The post by Pope has really gotten under my skin... but then again that was the intention wasn't it? I could go on and defend this, but my intial feeling was why try to explain something to someone so thick headed... he never has known anyone to be killed personally, especially die in front of him... and his claims on "committing your unjustified, neo-colonialist war crimes". Be mad at the Congress and the rest of the Federal government for approving the war, but to list men of such caliber is disgusting.... I think a quote best fits a retort:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill

and before you strike, it might be wise to know who and what John Stuart Mill stood for....

the whole you never served in the military so you i can't have an opinion is tiring and quite frankly invalid. Its is however quite ironic that the iraq war was started by draft dodgers.

Don't see America picking on China or Russia - Bloody Cowards

So the gov't lures people to live in flood plains so they give subsidies to farmers to grow corn for high fructose corn syrup and cow feed, and to grow corn so we can give subsidies to ethanol producers to produce 100 units of fuel using 120 units of fuel. We need Iowa, the flood plains are worth the risk, what would we do without that precious corn? Live like everybody else? The radical extreme Muslim terrorist is jealous of our corn. Or maize, i think that is what everybody else calls it.

0_o wrote: So the gov't lures people to live in flood plains so they give subsidies to farmers to grow corn for high fructose corn syrup and cow feed, and to grow corn so we can give subsidies to ethanol producers to produce 100 units of fuel using 120 units of fuel. We need Iowa, the flood plains are worth the risk, what would we do without that precious corn? Live like everybody else? The radical extreme Muslim terrorist is jealous of our corn. Or maize, i think that is what everybody else calls it.

I quite agree, the only issue I have is the 'shock' over floods and instead of engineering working with the river, they try their best to control the river... which in essence makes matters much worse.

Shed have known better wrote: Don't see America picking on China or Russia - Bloody Cowards

coney island baby wrote: the whole you never served in the military so you i can't have an opinion is tiring and quite frankly invalid. Its is however quite ironic that the iraq war was started by draft dodgers.

not sure how you pulled that out of what I said...

Biginoil wrote: Dunno about the US, but over here the former floodplains are often the BEST place to buy a house. The councils sell the land and grant licences to build on the floodplains and the builders put in elevated foundations and underground defences against the water. Then that bastard Archimedes steps in and determines that the water needs to go somewhere. So suddenly properties that have never ever flooded, and therefore aren't built to resist the water, find that they are somewhat damp.

Sandbags aren't intended to keep the water out, just the crap that's in the water. Putting bags over your doorways might filter out some of the crap that floodwater contains (literally crap, the drains are given a nice wash by the floodwater).

Great point, actually. Down here in Kent, there has been mass building on flood plains with defences, coinciding with severe and unusual flooding of centuries old villages. Never really thought that might be a reason, but it is certainly not down to excessive rainfall.