Cuba
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I was very disappointed in the boots on sale. I saw nothing with a suitable heel.
That, and the oppressive nature of the government, appears to be just a big myth.
Toolbox wrote:
That, and the oppressive nature of the government, appears to be just a big myth.
My Cuban neighbor would beg to differ.
Should Edel Brock not be on by now explaining to us that the Cuban state is a threat to world peace and that their evil values (inclusive education, free healthcare for all etc etc) are a threat to all right-thinking gun-toting citizens of the free world?
That's one of the reasons I've always fancied Cuba as a holiday destination. No fucking Americans!
Toolbox wrote: That, and the oppressive nature of the government, appears to be just a big myth.
Today's world is so disappointing...
Bloody excellent country... fantastic people, cigars & rum.. would go back in a heart beat...
Yeah I saw the flying dinghy. I thought I'd had a bit too much run at first.
I don't know where Edel is, this thread of course was intended to bait some anti-Cuba sentiment so I can pick on him for a bit. Buck, what does your Cuban neighbour say about it all? That it's better in New York? Why?
Like GlasV, I was fascinated by the prospect of somewhere so close to the US where they are banned from going. Imagine my surprise when I found the bloody place to be full of Canadians and all of them ten times louder and more irritating than any American could ever dream of being.
No wonder the nice ones pretend to be French 
He claims that he was fired from a university because of spewing anti-castro sentiments. He tells a lot of stories and I don't always believe them.
also, Brits are never the annoying tourists.
Went to Cuba oct 2007,lovely place.
They dont have much,but what they do have they make the most of.
And YEP no Crazy ass yanks 
None in Venezuela when we went in 2005 Either,I can see a pattern here...... although....
Mexico 2003 fookin LOADS of crazy ass Yanks!
http://neworderinfoweb.piczo.com
(new website coming VERY soon!)
Honestly? I don't know the first thing about Cuba, except what I've heard. Only two things to say about the place:
Would love to see all the old cars that are suppose to be lining the streets.
If the place is so great then why are people building rafts to get away from it?
Whilst it is true that Cuba has free healthcare, and is somewhat advanced in some areas (it developed the first vaccine for Hepatitis B) the reality is, if you get an advanced disease, you are fucked. Its a free system but its years behind most countries.
How did you get along with your designated guide Colin?
Don't know what you mean by designated guide, Liam. We used a tour guide a couple of times, but we certainly weren't accompanied when we didn't ask to be, if that's what you mean.
The country is quite poor, owing in the main to the American trade embargo that has pretty much crippled any chance of the economy growing. Thus the health system, whilst well-staffed with highly educated and motivated people, is likely to be as poorly-equipped as any other poor state.
Evidence of the embargo is everywhere, mainly in the total absence of anything American. Given that the island lies about 50 miles from the Florida Keys, it's incredible that everything that isn't locally produced is flown from Europe or China.
The old American cars are cool. I'll post some pictures somewhere when I get round to it.
EdelBrock wrote: 2. If the place is so great then why are people building rafts to get away from it?
To have the same way of life than yours! Do they sail elsewhere?
Jiphy wrote:
EdelBrock wrote: 2. If the place is so great then why are people building rafts to get away from it?
To have the same way of life than yours! Do they sail elsewhere?
In fact, a couple of Cubans told us that if you sail in a raft to the US, the government there will give you a house and a job. They seemed quite confused when we questioned this, saying that the US government are not famous for giving anything to their own citizens, least of all immigrants. They were most insistent that any immigrant from Cuba would be treated very well and get this special treatment. We asked why they didn't just go, but they both said they preferred it in Cuba.
Lord knows what's happening there - no idea whether it's true or not.
I've never been there and i don't want to.....i prefer to visit the fukin' americans hahahha. Well, i mean north americans.
The Teacher wrote: Whilst it is true that Cuba has free healthcare, and is somewhat advanced in some areas (it developed the first vaccine for Hepatitis B) the reality is, if you get an advanced disease, you are fucked. Its a free system but its years behind most countries.
How did you get along with your designated guide Colin?
Yes, if you develop cancer for example you're outlook is nowhere near as good as in the States. Possibly something to do with the US Government fining it's pharmaceutical companies for exporting life-saving/life-enhancing cancer treatments to Cuba.
GlasVegas wrote:
The Teacher wrote: Whilst it is true that Cuba has free healthcare, and is somewhat advanced in some areas (it developed the first vaccine for Hepatitis B) the reality is, if you get an advanced disease, you are fucked. Its a free system but its years behind most countries.
How did you get along with your designated guide Colin?
Yes, if you develop cancer for example you're outlook is nowhere near as good as in the States. Possibly something to do with the US Government fining it's pharmaceutical companies for exporting life-saving/life-enhancing cancer treatments to Cuba.
ya know, there are a couple more countries out there that could supply them as well ya know
Not if the drug companies want to export to America as well.
They won't deal with anyone who deals with Cuba. It's a very far-reaching trade embargo. They put enormous pressure on other countries to fall into line and adopt anti-Cuba trade policies.
Attempting to influence another countries foreign policy towards a third state is quite advanced stuff, and somewhat questionable legally.
As is dropping bombs on a country you've not declared war on.
The boxing team always cleans up at the Olympics.It's uncanny how they excel in that but bog-all else,sports wise. The Americans really hate it. Shame they are not allowed to turn pro..unless they defect of course.
They're pretty good a baseball, too. That's their national sport. I nearly bought a souvenir baseball bat.
GlasVegas wrote:
That's one of the reasons I've always fancied Cuba as a holiday destination. No fucking Americans!
But tons of Canadians
Is that better? 
Toolbox wrote: Imagine my surprise when I found the bloody place to be full of Canadians and all of them ten times louder and more irritating than any American could ever dream of being.
No wonder the nice ones pretend to be French
Oh, we don't pretend to be french, we are ;)
Biginoil wrote: Not if the drug companies want to export to America as well.
They won't deal with anyone who deals with Cuba. It's a very far-reaching trade embargo. They put enormous pressure on other countries to fall into line and adopt anti-Cuba trade policies.
Attempting to influence another countries foreign policy towards a third state is quite advanced stuff, and somewhat questionable legally.
As is dropping bombs on a country you've not declared war on.
Yeah, yeah......just the big 'ol mean USA. You don't think Cuba being right off our coast and a client state of the USSR had anything to do with the USA's annoyance with - and economic embargo of - the murdering bastards who ran (Che - chief among murdering bastards) and still run (Fidel/Raul) Cuba?
Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
A "degree of brutality"? 
That's even better than "collateral damage".......
Tex wrote:
Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
A "degree of brutality"?
That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.
Tex wrote:
Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
A "degree of brutality"?
That's your comeback is it?
It was shit 
Doctor? wrote:
Tex wrote:
Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
A "degree of brutality"?
That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.
Sometimes ya Brits really talk up from a high horse don't ya!
Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black
EdelBrock wrote:
Doctor? wrote:
Tex wrote:
Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.
America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.
And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!
Shame of the Nation
A "degree of brutality"?
That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.
Sometimes ya Brits really talk up from a high horse don't ya!
Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black
Rather a lot of dictators also use US$$$$$s and big guns to maintain power....eg Sadam Hussain, when it suited yous.
And as for high horse, it wasn't my leader who promised to destroy any nation which funded, harboured or assisted terrorists...........
Well I'm still waiting for B52s to unload on the people who paid for this....
Your president's idea now, not mine, his words, not mine.
The funny thing is that many of those Dollars raised (sometimes in the whitehouse!), have ended up in the hands of people who are now using them to threaten the US. It's a shame yous are an "anironic" people, because you just can't appreciate the hillarity of that.
Its not like the British Empire has been a shining beacon to the world.
Regardless, trying to simplify politics as you have is dumbing and watering it down to suit your needs of an argument. The shell game of money and allies has long been a thorn in all top nations and empires... hell, even the Roman Empire had issues with the same. Acting as if it were only an American issue is just silliness.
But back to point. Fidel is a dictator, and should be taken out of power (as should all dictators), plain and simple.
Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...
This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no? 
Never said the brits were any better. Besides, the Scots made a pigs dick of colonising Panama, the Welsh can barely colonise Wales and we do it by building bars in other people's country.....the British Empire was really just an Engerlish thing (you wanna talk shell games, I'm a master :D )
Anyway, if Fidel was as bad as those he replaced.....the Cubans would kick HIM out too, that would appear glaringly obvious.
As I see it, the only harm they ever did you, was letting the russians park missles there, that was most nasty, but getting on for 50 years ago.
Funny how the rich in America pay millions to him for their fave fat cigars, and that's just peachy.
EdelBrock wrote:
Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...
This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no?
We're not anti-american, we're anti-americans-talking-utter-shite-and-thinking-the-rest-of-humanity-are-untermensch.
Actually the thread was about what a nice spot Cuba is.
EdelBrock wrote:
Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black
You don't know ANYTHING about Cuban history. He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary. He has remained in position through total public support. You should go away, find out some facts then come back and apologise to us all. Or at least come back with some evidence to support that claim. Or just shut up.
As Cambo says, it was not an anti-American thread at all, but neither was it a thread about what a lovely place Cuba is, it's actually quite dusty and a bit hot. The whole thing was intended as a lead-in to Gazman's excellent "Havana laugh" joke. Well done, Gary.
American bashing is fun and it's also the Right Thing to Do. It's fun to see how you find anti-American sentiment where sometimes none was intended and defend yourselves with such fine retorts as "well, you're just as bad" and the like.
We're not jealous or anything you know, and we have thought about it. Most people in the world, with access to the proper information and capability for free thought, think of America as a sad joke, the biggest blight on the planet right now. It would be funny if so many people aren't killed or forced to live in poverty or worse by the naive, mean-minded and hopelessly inept domestic and foreign policies.
You have good theme parks though.
Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.
The Teacher wrote:
Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.
You're only a dictator once the people who put you there want rid of you, this has yet to happen with uncly fidel.
And if Edel needs an example of how his lot bring it on themselves with their stupid, fat, astrology-is-a-science, angels-are-real, furry thinking and megaphonic mouths......
Picture if you will the new F1 team, USGPE. When asked if running a team from the US would be tricky, their boss said..... "Everything used in F1 is made in Umurika anyway"
Yeah, apart from the cars, engines, tyres, drivers, fuel. After much brain wracking I came up with....tyre warmners, which as a US invention, may still be made their. Banned next year I believe. Used to be MS software on the first generation of spec ECU's as well...but after loads of cars refused to start and others stopped for no reason (no, absolutely true), it vanished.
And I will re-iterate for the Nth time, a nation founded by terrorists and a track record of supporting terrorists the world over (and financing therefor, some cracks in my windows, the destruction of the shop where I bought my first New Order single, etc), has NO RIGHT to blab on about what nasty people terrorists are. Maybe you should adopt a system simmillar to the one Frankie Boyle proposes as an honest expression of the UK's immigration policy......just get a paint chart and compare them to it......white with a hint of rose=good terrorist, come in, get your CIA handouts, set up your fundraising offices in our cities. Beige thru chocolate=I'm sorry, you're an evil murderer so we're going to arclight your hometown in the name of peace.
I appreciate that you must think I have a chip on me old shoulder about this shit, but I bet lots here know just why, because the fucktards never confined themselves to this island and have seen their handywork. But the fact is, had the US not declared a "war on terror" (spastics can't even NAME it right.....I know people who are terrified of spiders, I'm petrified of Katie Pryce and Peter Andre, are SAC going to "precision bomb" (the new name for arclight judging by downtown Basra/Kabul these days) them too?)....I'd not feel so compelled to yell about it from the rooftops. Being a cunt is something most people can handle, being a hypocritical cunt (in every sense, not least "we're christians who ignore each and every one of the teachings of Jesus Christ"), makes people very very angry.
EDIT; Actually, I was talkin to my ex GF on beakbook, and mentioned "who would Jesus bomb" T shirts. She is now designing her own.....cute picture of baby jesus on the front, slogan and carnage on the back, possibly with a drawing of a heavily armed prince of peace. Each of her kids are getting one for Xmas :D
The Teacher wrote:
Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.
No it wasn't.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe, ever, was definitely EdelBrock's ascertation that English people can't be understood anywhere outside of England.
Which was just a really, really weird thing to say.
El Jarvo wrote:
The Teacher wrote:
Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.
No it wasn't.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe, ever, was definitely EdelBrock's ascertation that English people can't be understood anywhere outside of England.
Which was just a really, really weird thing to say.
All the more so since I'm here, and it's entirely true of us lot.....you guys only understand me when I speak in best BBC-Ulster English and slow it down a bit, yous'd be fuckin baffled if receiving it at full bandwidth :D Actually in NI, as in Scotland, if you drive 40 miles from home, you're better off with sign-language, so rapidly and seriously does the accent vary.
Biginoil wrote:
EdelBrock wrote:
Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black
You have good theme parks though.
And the fast food is second to none. And they do fantastic breakfasts with the likes of pancakes, maple syrup, big chunks of delightful French Toast etc. Breakfast's anywhere else are shit. And you can't find Arby's, Fatburger or In-N-Out-Burger here either.
For this, as well as your theme parks, your shopping malls, your attentive and very professional waiters and bartenders, for the cities of New York, Miami, Las Vegas, San Diego and San Francisco..... for all of this (and not much more)........ I SALUTE YOU AMERICA!!!!!!
Biginoil wrote: Because?
Your assumption that dictator and revolutionary are mutually exclusive. They are, of course, not. And in nearly all cases, the revolutionary becomes the dictator.
Also, how can you say the Cuban regime has popular support? Opposition parties are banned, and any form of opposition is oppressed. So, if there is popular support, its only because the people dont have a choice. So what you say is, quite frankly, utterly utterly retarded.
Cuba. It were all fields round 'ere when I was a lad. Never had to lock my front door. Jumpers for goalposts. Etc.
El Jarvo wrote: ]
No it wasn't.
The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe, ever, was definitely EdelBrock's ascertation that English people can't be understood anywhere outside of England.
Which was just a really, really weird thing to say.
What,come again,never understood a word of that 
The Teacher wrote:
Biginoil wrote: Because?
Your assumption that dictator and revolutionary are mutually exclusive. They are, of course, not. And in nearly all cases, the revolutionary becomes the dictator.
Also, how can you say the Cuban regime has popular support? Opposition parties are banned, and any form of opposition is oppressed. So, if there is popular support, its only because the people dont have a choice. So what you say is, quite frankly, utterly utterly retarded.
Do you have any evidence to back that up?
And are you sure you want to call me retarded?
That's a story about a group of people who are in prison because they broke the law of the land.
Don't you think that people should obey the law, Liam?
Or be brought to account if they break that law, particularly if it is a law which is in place to protect national security in a country which suffers persistent attacks against it's sovereignty by a very hostile neighbour?
The law of Cuba states that the press should be controlled by the government. This might not sit well with us, we prefer our press to be controlled by wealthy Australians or reclusive billionaires. But in Cuba, if the government do not control something, the CIA will find a way to take control.
I'm uneasy with it, and that website contains some disturbing stories (and all very well-presented, as you would expect from a journalists' group). But it can't be news that conditions are a bit shit inside the prisons of a poor country like Cuba.
As for evidence, it's all over the internet. My opinion is based on spending a couple of weeks in Cuba and talking to people wherever I went, reading a few books that I bought in Cuba (which I assume were published under State-control) and searching the internet for details. I know this doesn't make me an expert, but I have found very little to support the idea that the Cuban Revolution is oppressive, unpopular or cruel and plenty to support the idea that America and the rest of the world have given them a very raw deal.
I'm not talking about America. I'm talking about Cuba. You said that the Cuban leadership was not a dictatorship because it was revolutionary. No matter which was you look at that, it is incorrect. There is no debate over it, its a statement of fact.
You also said there is popular support in Cuba. But you cant say that because there is no meausre for it. Unless you are arguing there is popular support, because its forced? In that case, its not really genuine is it?
I wonder what you are going to come out with next, will it be "The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea and what the UK can learn for the General Election"?
And a quick google of "human rights cuba" should easily direct you to proof of the oppressive regime.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news\_details.asp?NewsID=17660
http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y03/nov03/10e8.htm
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-01.htm#P348\_12349
I could go on, but I daresay its not worth it as all you'll talk about is how bad America is.
Doctor? wrote: try one for "human rights UK"
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=human+rights+uk&meta=&aq=f&oq=
Erm... whats your point?
Anyway, this is a thread about Cuba. The UK isnt perfect, not by a long shot, but its a damn sight better than Cuba.
I'm not talking about America either, although Cuba's story is heavily coloured by it's relationship with America.
The people of Cuba are more politicised that anywhere else I've been. They're happy to talk about politics, and the government take an active role in this dialogue.
There are regular elections in Cuba, for local and national government positions, and the turnout is very nearly 100%.
There are political protests and people and groups are active in opposing certain policies of the government. I didn't see any of them, I was only there for two weeks remember, but plenty of people spoke about them.
I saw it as an idealogical difference to what we might be used to: objecting to the policies of a government without calling for their removal from power.
There may well be suppression of attempts to overthrow the government, but this could be seen as analogous to attempts to overthrow the Queen of this country, or to change the actual political structure of a nation. Treason, in other words.
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe Cuba is perfect, but I don't know of any nation that is. And I hope I don't look like I'm holding myself up as an expert. I stayed there for two weeks and have read a couple of books. It certainly surprised me; I was expecting to see oppression and a down-trodden people and what I saw was quite the opposite.
It's all about questioning what you hear, and considering where you hear it.
Liam, have you chatted to your local Amnesty International representative about your opinion of Israel? Or is that different? Are they wrong about that and right about Cuba?
Liam, further to Colins rather sensible (try to knock that on the head mate, doesn't suit you) post, look at it like this.........does the way NI comes over on the news tally with your own experiences here? If someone told you they worked as the door gunner on a milkfloat before and after you'd been here, would your belief in the statement have altered between the two samplings.
And that's without the world's most powerul and media saturated/saturating nation having a vested interest in making the place look shit.
The Teacher wrote:
I could go on, but I daresay its not worth it as all you'll talk about is how bad America is.
That's just offensive, Liam, or at least shows that you can't or won't read what I've been saying.
Your description of me as 'moronic' also shows how interested you are in actually listening and thinking about what other people say, rather than just spouting the same poorly-considered opinions and refusing to consider them properly.
Edit: it was "retarded" that you called me, sorry.
Biginoil wrote: I'm not talking about America either, although Cuba's story is heavily coloured by it's relationship with America.
The people of Cuba are more politicised that anywhere else I've been. They're happy to talk about politics, and the government take an active role in this dialogue.
There are regular elections in Cuba, for local and national government positions, and the turnout is very nearly 100%.
There are political protests and people and groups are active in opposing certain policies of the government. I didn't see any of them, I was only there for two weeks remember, but plenty of people spoke about them.
I saw it as an idealogical difference to what we might be used to: objecting to the policies of a government without calling for their removal from power.
There may well be suppression of attempts to overthrow the government, but this could be seen as analogous to attempts to overthrow the Queen of this country, or to change the actual political structure of a nation. Treason, in other words.
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe Cuba is perfect, but I don't know of any nation that is. And I hope I don't look like I'm holding myself up as an expert. I stayed there for two weeks and have read a couple of books. It certainly surprised me; I was expecting to see oppression and a down-trodden people and what I saw was quite the opposite.
It's all about questioning what you hear, and considering where you hear it.
Ok, but also remember that anyone younger than 60 has absolutely no remembrance of anything prior to Fidel. You can oppress people from birth and they have no clue that they are, they just expect that it is normal.
People can also act one way, but think internally another. Not to say the Cubans do, but the Cubans that live in the US don't paint a pretty picture of Fidel. His regime sounds, by their account, very similar to Saddam's, with the exception that his sons aren't blathering loonies. People could be completely worried of "thought" policing of the general population... you know that people might say one thing to tourists and a complete other behind closed doors.
Have you spoken to any of these Cubans, Edel? Or did someone else tell you what they said? Or did you see it on the TV?
Who were they anyway? Why did they leave? Quite a lot of criminals leave, I understand, for jobs in Miami with the Mafia. Is it them you've been talking to?
Your nice American free media being the bastion of honesty, openness and impartiality, you'll have all the answers I suppose.
As for it being just like Iraq in Cuba? That's got to be a joke? Surely your sources aren't that biased?
I've had a couple Marines that were Cuban and at certain points I went into conversation with their parents on the occasion I saw them. They are really quite venomous towards Fidel. A mere mention of his name took them from looking like the most peaceful, generous, kind people to looking like they'd want to march the streets with picks and torches. Its definitely not media based, no one has that much anger over something because of what the media has told them.
But I have no idea on their credibility, other than they seemed like the nicest people, and really I doubt they were prior criminals.
One thought on my mind with your talks with the Cubans in Cuba is there could possibly be an economic factor. From what I understand their economy is based upon tourism. Things might be really bad, but you wouldn't want your client-el too scared to show up ever again. They may see talking to tourists as just part of their job.
I don't really know, but something about Cuba just doesn't add up.
Doctor? wrote:
EdelBrock wrote:
Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...
This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no?
We're not anti-american, we're anti-americans-talking-utter-shite-and-thinking-the-rest-of-humanity-are-untermensch.
Actually the thread was about what a nice spot Cuba is.
I'm just pissy cause I got no birthday thread
EdelBrock wrote:
One thought on my mind with your talks with the Cubans in Cuba is there could possibly be an economic factor. From what I understand their economy is based upon tourism. Things might be really bad, but you wouldn't want your client-el too scared to show up ever again. They may see talking to tourists as just part of their job.
I don't really know, but something about Cuba just doesn't add up.
Yes Cuba IS a communist country.
I went there in 2007.
Their Economy IS based on Tourism,funnily enough,and suprisingly,Fidel had the forsight to develop Cuba into a Tourist hotspot JUST before the fall of communist Russia.
Coincidence,i think not.
I think the tourism figures for Cuba are now between 5-10 million peeps per year.
Thing is peeps who work in the tourist industry earn more money than normal Cubans,thats why so many Doctors/nurses end up as waiters etc.
The regime (and i use this term very loosely) realised that they were losing so many professionals to the tourist industry taht they agreed to raise the monthly wage for doctors and nurses and other profs.
Unfortunately people think of Cuba as third world,which from a certain point of view is sumwhat correct.
They do lead the world in some medicine studies and their healthcare is suprisingly one of the best in the world.
I loved it and would go back tommorrow,if it was a toss up between Cuba or the U.S then i know where i'd be going first....
