Cuba

I'm not talking about America either, although Cuba's story is heavily coloured by it's relationship with America.

The people of Cuba are more politicised that anywhere else I've been. They're happy to talk about politics, and the government take an active role in this dialogue.

There are regular elections in Cuba, for local and national government positions, and the turnout is very nearly 100%.

There are political protests and people and groups are active in opposing certain policies of the government. I didn't see any of them, I was only there for two weeks remember, but plenty of people spoke about them.

I saw it as an idealogical difference to what we might be used to: objecting to the policies of a government without calling for their removal from power.

There may well be suppression of attempts to overthrow the government, but this could be seen as analogous to attempts to overthrow the Queen of this country, or to change the actual political structure of a nation. Treason, in other words.

I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe Cuba is perfect, but I don't know of any nation that is. And I hope I don't look like I'm holding myself up as an expert. I stayed there for two weeks and have read a couple of books. It certainly surprised me; I was expecting to see oppression and a down-trodden people and what I saw was quite the opposite.

It's all about questioning what you hear, and considering where you hear it.

Liam, have you chatted to your local Amnesty International representative about your opinion of Israel? Or is that different? Are they wrong about that and right about Cuba?

Liam, further to Colins rather sensible (try to knock that on the head mate, doesn't suit you) post, look at it like this.........does the way NI comes over on the news tally with your own experiences here? If someone told you they worked as the door gunner on a milkfloat before and after you'd been here, would your belief in the statement have altered between the two samplings.

And that's without the world's most powerul and media saturated/saturating nation having a vested interest in making the place look shit.

The Teacher wrote:

I could go on, but I daresay its not worth it as all you'll talk about is how bad America is.

That's just offensive, Liam, or at least shows that you can't or won't read what I've been saying.

Your description of me as 'moronic' also shows how interested you are in actually listening and thinking about what other people say, rather than just spouting the same poorly-considered opinions and refusing to consider them properly.

Edit: it was "retarded" that you called me, sorry.

Biginoil wrote: I'm not talking about America either, although Cuba's story is heavily coloured by it's relationship with America.

The people of Cuba are more politicised that anywhere else I've been. They're happy to talk about politics, and the government take an active role in this dialogue.

There are regular elections in Cuba, for local and national government positions, and the turnout is very nearly 100%.

There are political protests and people and groups are active in opposing certain policies of the government. I didn't see any of them, I was only there for two weeks remember, but plenty of people spoke about them.

I saw it as an idealogical difference to what we might be used to: objecting to the policies of a government without calling for their removal from power.

There may well be suppression of attempts to overthrow the government, but this could be seen as analogous to attempts to overthrow the Queen of this country, or to change the actual political structure of a nation. Treason, in other words.

I hope I'm not giving the impression that I believe Cuba is perfect, but I don't know of any nation that is. And I hope I don't look like I'm holding myself up as an expert. I stayed there for two weeks and have read a couple of books. It certainly surprised me; I was expecting to see oppression and a down-trodden people and what I saw was quite the opposite.

It's all about questioning what you hear, and considering where you hear it.

Ok, but also remember that anyone younger than 60 has absolutely no remembrance of anything prior to Fidel. You can oppress people from birth and they have no clue that they are, they just expect that it is normal.

People can also act one way, but think internally another. Not to say the Cubans do, but the Cubans that live in the US don't paint a pretty picture of Fidel. His regime sounds, by their account, very similar to Saddam's, with the exception that his sons aren't blathering loonies. People could be completely worried of "thought" policing of the general population... you know that people might say one thing to tourists and a complete other behind closed doors.

Have you spoken to any of these Cubans, Edel? Or did someone else tell you what they said? Or did you see it on the TV?

Who were they anyway? Why did they leave? Quite a lot of criminals leave, I understand, for jobs in Miami with the Mafia. Is it them you've been talking to?

Your nice American free media being the bastion of honesty, openness and impartiality, you'll have all the answers I suppose.

As for it being just like Iraq in Cuba? That's got to be a joke? Surely your sources aren't that biased?

Every country has its lows and highs.

I've had a couple Marines that were Cuban and at certain points I went into conversation with their parents on the occasion I saw them. They are really quite venomous towards Fidel. A mere mention of his name took them from looking like the most peaceful, generous, kind people to looking like they'd want to march the streets with picks and torches. Its definitely not media based, no one has that much anger over something because of what the media has told them.

But I have no idea on their credibility, other than they seemed like the nicest people, and really I doubt they were prior criminals.

One thought on my mind with your talks with the Cubans in Cuba is there could possibly be an economic factor. From what I understand their economy is based upon tourism. Things might be really bad, but you wouldn't want your client-el too scared to show up ever again. They may see talking to tourists as just part of their job.

I don't really know, but something about Cuba just doesn't add up.

Doctor? wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...

This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no?

We're not anti-american, we're anti-americans-talking-utter-shite-and-thinking-the-rest-of-humanity-are-untermensch.

Actually the thread was about what a nice spot Cuba is.

I'm just pissy cause I got no birthday thread

EdelBrock wrote:

One thought on my mind with your talks with the Cubans in Cuba is there could possibly be an economic factor. From what I understand their economy is based upon tourism. Things might be really bad, but you wouldn't want your client-el too scared to show up ever again. They may see talking to tourists as just part of their job.

I don't really know, but something about Cuba just doesn't add up.

Yes Cuba IS a communist country.

I went there in 2007.

Their Economy IS based on Tourism,funnily enough,and suprisingly,Fidel had the forsight to develop Cuba into a Tourist hotspot JUST before the fall of communist Russia.

Coincidence,i think not.

I think the tourism figures for Cuba are now between 5-10 million peeps per year.

Thing is peeps who work in the tourist industry earn more money than normal Cubans,thats why so many Doctors/nurses end up as waiters etc.

The regime (and i use this term very loosely) realised that they were losing so many professionals to the tourist industry taht they agreed to raise the monthly wage for doctors and nurses and other profs.

Unfortunately people think of Cuba as third world,which from a certain point of view is sumwhat correct.

They do lead the world in some medicine studies and their healthcare is suprisingly one of the best in the world.

I loved it and would go back tommorrow,if it was a toss up between Cuba or the U.S then i know where i'd be going first....

http://neworderinfoweb.piczo.com