Cuba

Biginoil wrote: Not if the drug companies want to export to America as well.

They won't deal with anyone who deals with Cuba. It's a very far-reaching trade embargo. They put enormous pressure on other countries to fall into line and adopt anti-Cuba trade policies.

Attempting to influence another countries foreign policy towards a third state is quite advanced stuff, and somewhat questionable legally.

As is dropping bombs on a country you've not declared war on.

Yeah, yeah......just the big 'ol mean USA. You don't think Cuba being right off our coast and a client state of the USSR had anything to do with the USA's annoyance with - and economic embargo of - the murdering bastards who ran (Che - chief among murdering bastards) and still run (Fidel/Raul) Cuba?

Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

A "degree of brutality"? That's even better than "collateral damage".......

Tex wrote:

Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

A "degree of brutality"? That's even better than "collateral damage".......

That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.

Tex wrote:

Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

A "degree of brutality"? That's even better than "collateral damage".......

That's your comeback is it?

It was shit

Doctor? wrote:

Tex wrote:

Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

A "degree of brutality"? That's even better than "collateral damage".......

That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.

Sometimes ya Brits really talk up from a high horse don't ya!

Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black

I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

Tex wrote:

Biginoil wrote: Murdered who? The regime they overthrew hadn't exactly got into power by winning a game of pass the parcel. They were brutal bastards, hated by everyone in Cuba, and it took a degree of brutality to overthrow them. The Revolutionaries weren't Communists or Russian affiliates until after the Bay of Pigs and the US embargo, when they really had little else to turn to.

America were just pissed off that Cuba stood up to their bullying and are too stubborn to back down now that the issues that caused the conflict in the first place are all gone.

And pretending to be scared of them is just pathetic. They're TINY!

Shame of the Nation

A "degree of brutality"? That's even better than "collateral damage".......

That's right, and your country attained independence by asking politely and not by waging a huge terrorist campaign funded by a nation (France) that yous slander on a daily basis. Oh and yous were all quite happy to fund and arm terrorists (you're only a revolutionary if you have a popular mandate), in my neck of the woods. And don't get me started on all the dodgy little fuckers round the world yous have set up and propped up. Your moral high ground needs flood defences.

Sometimes ya Brits really talk up from a high horse don't ya!

Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black

Rather a lot of dictators also use US$$$$$s and big guns to maintain power....eg Sadam Hussain, when it suited yous. And as for high horse, it wasn't my leader who promised to destroy any nation which funded, harboured or assisted terrorists........... Well I'm still waiting for B52s to unload on the people who paid for this.... Your president's idea now, not mine, his words, not mine. The funny thing is that many of those Dollars raised (sometimes in the whitehouse!), have ended up in the hands of people who are now using them to threaten the US. It's a shame yous are an "anironic" people, because you just can't appreciate the hillarity of that.

Its not like the British Empire has been a shining beacon to the world.

Regardless, trying to simplify politics as you have is dumbing and watering it down to suit your needs of an argument. The shell game of money and allies has long been a thorn in all top nations and empires... hell, even the Roman Empire had issues with the same. Acting as if it were only an American issue is just silliness.

But back to point. Fidel is a dictator, and should be taken out of power (as should all dictators), plain and simple.

Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...

This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no?

Never said the brits were any better. Besides, the Scots made a pigs dick of colonising Panama, the Welsh can barely colonise Wales and we do it by building bars in other people's country.....the British Empire was really just an Engerlish thing (you wanna talk shell games, I'm a master :D )

Anyway, if Fidel was as bad as those he replaced.....the Cubans would kick HIM out too, that would appear glaringly obvious.

As I see it, the only harm they ever did you, was letting the russians park missles there, that was most nasty, but getting on for 50 years ago.

Funny how the rich in America pay millions to him for their fave fat cigars, and that's just peachy.

EdelBrock wrote:

Gazman wrote: I think somebodies havana laugh on this thread...

This thread has been a baiting Americans game, I know. Not sure what it is with NOOL, but it goes through these "anti-American" phases... must be the gloomy weather coming in no?

We're not anti-american, we're anti-americans-talking-utter-shite-and-thinking-the-rest-of-humanity-are-untermensch.

Actually the thread was about what a nice spot Cuba is.

EdelBrock wrote:

Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black

You don't know ANYTHING about Cuban history. He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary. He has remained in position through total public support. You should go away, find out some facts then come back and apologise to us all. Or at least come back with some evidence to support that claim. Or just shut up.

As Cambo says, it was not an anti-American thread at all, but neither was it a thread about what a lovely place Cuba is, it's actually quite dusty and a bit hot. The whole thing was intended as a lead-in to Gazman's excellent "Havana laugh" joke. Well done, Gary.

American bashing is fun and it's also the Right Thing to Do. It's fun to see how you find anti-American sentiment where sometimes none was intended and defend yourselves with such fine retorts as "well, you're just as bad" and the like.

We're not jealous or anything you know, and we have thought about it. Most people in the world, with access to the proper information and capability for free thought, think of America as a sad joke, the biggest blight on the planet right now. It would be funny if so many people aren't killed or forced to live in poverty or worse by the naive, mean-minded and hopelessly inept domestic and foreign policies.

You have good theme parks though.

Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.

The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.

Because?

The Teacher wrote:

Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.

The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.

You're only a dictator once the people who put you there want rid of you, this has yet to happen with uncly fidel.

And if Edel needs an example of how his lot bring it on themselves with their stupid, fat, astrology-is-a-science, angels-are-real, furry thinking and megaphonic mouths......

Picture if you will the new F1 team, USGPE. When asked if running a team from the US would be tricky, their boss said..... "Everything used in F1 is made in Umurika anyway"

Yeah, apart from the cars, engines, tyres, drivers, fuel. After much brain wracking I came up with....tyre warmners, which as a US invention, may still be made their. Banned next year I believe. Used to be MS software on the first generation of spec ECU's as well...but after loads of cars refused to start and others stopped for no reason (no, absolutely true), it vanished.

And I will re-iterate for the Nth time, a nation founded by terrorists and a track record of supporting terrorists the world over (and financing therefor, some cracks in my windows, the destruction of the shop where I bought my first New Order single, etc), has NO RIGHT to blab on about what nasty people terrorists are. Maybe you should adopt a system simmillar to the one Frankie Boyle proposes as an honest expression of the UK's immigration policy......just get a paint chart and compare them to it......white with a hint of rose=good terrorist, come in, get your CIA handouts, set up your fundraising offices in our cities. Beige thru chocolate=I'm sorry, you're an evil murderer so we're going to arclight your hometown in the name of peace.

I appreciate that you must think I have a chip on me old shoulder about this shit, but I bet lots here know just why, because the fucktards never confined themselves to this island and have seen their handywork. But the fact is, had the US not declared a "war on terror" (spastics can't even NAME it right.....I know people who are terrified of spiders, I'm petrified of Katie Pryce and Peter Andre, are SAC going to "precision bomb" (the new name for arclight judging by downtown Basra/Kabul these days) them too?)....I'd not feel so compelled to yell about it from the rooftops. Being a cunt is something most people can handle, being a hypocritical cunt (in every sense, not least "we're christians who ignore each and every one of the teachings of Jesus Christ"), makes people very very angry.

EDIT; Actually, I was talkin to my ex GF on beakbook, and mentioned "who would Jesus bomb" T shirts. She is now designing her own.....cute picture of baby jesus on the front, slogan and carnage on the back, possibly with a drawing of a heavily armed prince of peace. Each of her kids are getting one for Xmas :D

El Jarvo wrote:

The Teacher wrote:

Biginoil wrote: He's not a dictator, he's a revolutionary.

The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe.

No it wasn't.

The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe, ever, was definitely EdelBrock's ascertation that English people can't be understood anywhere outside of England.

Which was just a really, really weird thing to say.

All the more so since I'm here, and it's entirely true of us lot.....you guys only understand me when I speak in best BBC-Ulster English and slow it down a bit, yous'd be fuckin baffled if receiving it at full bandwidth :D Actually in NI, as in Scotland, if you drive 40 miles from home, you're better off with sign-language, so rapidly and seriously does the accent vary.

Biginoil wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Look, I'm no expert on Cuban history, but one thing is for sure, Castro is a dictator... and dictators only stay in power by fear and corruption. At least call the kettle black

You have good theme parks though.

And the fast food is second to none. And they do fantastic breakfasts with the likes of pancakes, maple syrup, big chunks of delightful French Toast etc. Breakfast's anywhere else are shit. And you can't find Arby's, Fatburger or In-N-Out-Burger here either.

For this, as well as your theme parks, your shopping malls, your attentive and very professional waiters and bartenders, for the cities of New York, Miami, Las Vegas, San Diego and San Francisco..... for all of this (and not much more)........ I SALUTE YOU AMERICA!!!!!!

Biginoil wrote: Because?

Your assumption that dictator and revolutionary are mutually exclusive. They are, of course, not. And in nearly all cases, the revolutionary becomes the dictator.

Also, how can you say the Cuban regime has popular support? Opposition parties are banned, and any form of opposition is oppressed. So, if there is popular support, its only because the people dont have a choice. So what you say is, quite frankly, utterly utterly retarded.

Cuba. It were all fields round 'ere when I was a lad. Never had to lock my front door. Jumpers for goalposts. Etc.

El Jarvo wrote: ]

No it wasn't.

The most ridiculous comment on any messageboard in the entire history of the universe, ever, was definitely EdelBrock's ascertation that English people can't be understood anywhere outside of England.

Which was just a really, really weird thing to say.

What,come again,never understood a word of that

The Teacher wrote:

Biginoil wrote: Because?

Your assumption that dictator and revolutionary are mutually exclusive. They are, of course, not. And in nearly all cases, the revolutionary becomes the dictator.

Also, how can you say the Cuban regime has popular support? Opposition parties are banned, and any form of opposition is oppressed. So, if there is popular support, its only because the people dont have a choice. So what you say is, quite frankly, utterly utterly retarded.

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

And are you sure you want to call me retarded?

http://www.cpj.org/censored/censored\_06.html

Now where is your evidence?

That's a story about a group of people who are in prison because they broke the law of the land.

Don't you think that people should obey the law, Liam?

Or be brought to account if they break that law, particularly if it is a law which is in place to protect national security in a country which suffers persistent attacks against it's sovereignty by a very hostile neighbour?

The law of Cuba states that the press should be controlled by the government. This might not sit well with us, we prefer our press to be controlled by wealthy Australians or reclusive billionaires. But in Cuba, if the government do not control something, the CIA will find a way to take control.

I'm uneasy with it, and that website contains some disturbing stories (and all very well-presented, as you would expect from a journalists' group). But it can't be news that conditions are a bit shit inside the prisons of a poor country like Cuba.

As for evidence, it's all over the internet. My opinion is based on spending a couple of weeks in Cuba and talking to people wherever I went, reading a few books that I bought in Cuba (which I assume were published under State-control) and searching the internet for details. I know this doesn't make me an expert, but I have found very little to support the idea that the Cuban Revolution is oppressive, unpopular or cruel and plenty to support the idea that America and the rest of the world have given them a very raw deal.

I'm not talking about America. I'm talking about Cuba. You said that the Cuban leadership was not a dictatorship because it was revolutionary. No matter which was you look at that, it is incorrect. There is no debate over it, its a statement of fact.

You also said there is popular support in Cuba. But you cant say that because there is no meausre for it. Unless you are arguing there is popular support, because its forced? In that case, its not really genuine is it?

I wonder what you are going to come out with next, will it be "The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea and what the UK can learn for the General Election"?

And a quick google of "human rights cuba" should easily direct you to proof of the oppressive regime.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news\_details.asp?NewsID=17660

http://www.hrw.org/americas/cuba

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y03/nov03/10e8.htm

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-01.htm#P348\_12349

I could go on, but I daresay its not worth it as all you'll talk about is how bad America is.

try one for "human rights UK"

Doctor? wrote: try one for "human rights UK"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=human+rights+uk&meta=&aq=f&oq=

Erm... whats your point?

Anyway, this is a thread about Cuba. The UK isnt perfect, not by a long shot, but its a damn sight better than Cuba.