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http://slate.msn.com/default.aspx?id=76886
Check out what Dubya Bush has said the past couple years. What an idiot. His administration WILL start world war 3 if they attack Iraq and you Brits will be f@#ked as well if Blair keeps shoving his head up Bush's ass. Luckily, Canada is only a couple hours from here.
Let's set up a motorcade to slowly move through downtown Dallas...picnic on the grassy knoll?
Come on now, Bacon Lettuce Tomato....
You actually had the golf balls to quote Slate?!?!? Goodness gracious, even the most ardent opponent of the Bush administration knows that liberal hate rag has NO credibility. I imagine that if one were to do a LexisNexis search on any number of Clintonistas, you could pull some very "interesting" quotes out of context.
You must be new to the culture wars.........
P.S.
Way to wish death on the leader of your country. Nice going.............
Poor ole Dubya! I thought you lot over there had it bad with Ronnie Reagan, this guy is even funnier
Still not a patch on Prince Phillip over here though.....but then again, he hasnae got his hand on a nuclear weapon! (no knob jokes please:D )
Here's some of the best one's
The president's accidental wit and wisdom.
"See, we love—we love freedom. That's what they didn't understand. They hate things; we love things. They act out of hatred; we don't seek revenge, we seek justice out of love."—Oklahoma City, Aug. 29, 2002
"There's no cave deep enough for America, or dark enough to hide."—Oklahoma City, Aug. 29, 2002 (Thanks to Michael Shively.)
"President Musharraf, he's still tight with us on the war against terror, and that's what I appreciate. He's a—he understands that we've got to keep al-Qaida on the run, and that by keeping him on the run, it's more likely we will bring him to justice."—Ruch, Ore., Aug. 22, 2002 (Thanks to Scott Miller.)
"I'm a patient man. And when I say I'm a patient man, I mean I'm a patient man."
"Nothing he [Saddam Hussein] has done has convinced me—I'm confident the Secretary of Defense—that he is the kind of fellow that is willing to forgo weapons of mass destruction, is willing to be a peaceful neighbor, that is—will honor the people—the Iraqi people of all stripes, will—values human life. He hasn't convinced me, nor has he convinced my administration."—Crawford, Texas, Aug. 21, 2002
"I'm thrilled to be here in the bread basket of America because it gives me a chance to remind our fellow citizens that we have an advantage here in America—we can feed ourselves."—Stockton, Calif., Aug. 23, 2002 (Thanks to Christopher Baird.)
"There's no bigger task than protecting the homeland of our country."
"The federal government and the state government must not fear programs who change lives, but must welcome those faith-based programs for the embetterment of mankind."—Stockton, Calif., Aug. 23, 2002 (Thanks to George Dupper.)
"I love the idea of a school in which people come to get educated and stay in the state in which they're educated."
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again."
"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here."
"I can assure you that, even though I won't be sitting through every single moment of the seminars, nor will the vice president, we will look at the summaries."
"Tommy [Thompson, Health and Human Services secretary,] is a good listener, and he's a pretty good actor, too."
"The trial lawyers are very politically powerful. … But here in Texas we took them on and got some good medical—medical malpractice.""I firmly believe the death tax is good for people from all walks of life all throughout our society."
—Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002
"There was no malfeance involved. This was an honest disagreement about accounting procedures. ... There was no malfeance, no attempt to hide anything."—White House press conference, Washington, D.C., July 8, 2002
"I also understand how tender the free enterprise system can be."—White House press conference, Washington, D.C., July 9, 2002
"Over 75 percent of white Americans own their home, and less than 50 percent of Hispanos and African Americans don't own their home. And that's a gap, that's a homeownership gap. And we've got to do something about it."—Cleveland, Ohio, July 1, 2002
"Whether you're here by birth, or whether you're in America by choice, you contribute to the vitality of our life. And for that, we are grateful."—Washington, D.C., May 17, 2002
"I'd rather have them sacrificing on behalf of our nation than, you know, endless hours of testimony on congressional hill."—National Security Agency, Fort Meade, Maryland, June 4, 2002
"We're working with Chancellor Schröder on what's called 10-plus-10-over-10: $10 billion from the U.S.,$10 billion from other members of the G7 over a 10-year period, to help Russia securitize the dismantling—the dismantled nuclear warheads."—Berlin, Germany, May 23, 2002
"Do you have blacks, too?"—To Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001
"This is a nation that loves our freedom, loves our country."—Washington, D.C, May 17, 2002
"The public education system in America is one of the most important foundations of our democracy. After all, it is where children from all over America learn to be responsible citizens, and learn to have the skills necessary to take advantage of our fantastic opportunistic society."—Santa Clara, Calif., May 1, 2002
"After all, a week ago, there were—Yasser Arafat was boarded up in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently, German peace protestors and all kinds of people. They're now out. He's now free to show leadership, to lead the world."—Washington, D.C., May 2, 2002 (Thanks to M. Bateman.)
"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."—as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
"I want to thank the dozens of welfare to work stories, the actual examples of people who made the firm and solemn commitment to work hard to embetter themselves."—Washington, D.C., April 18, 2002 (Thanks to George Dupper.)
"And so, in my State of the—my State of the Union—or state—my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation—I asked Americans to give 4,000 years—4,000 hours over the next—the rest of your life—of service to America. That's what I asked—4,000 hours." —Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002
"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber."—Washington, D.C., April 10, 2002
"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."—Tokyo, Japan, Feb. 18, 2002
"We've tripled the amount of money—I believe it's from $50 million up to $195 million available."—Lima, Peru, March 23, 2002
"We've got pockets of persistent poverty in our society, which I refuse to declare defeat—I mean, I refuse to allow them to continue on. And so one of the things that we're trying to do is to encourage a faith-based initiative to spread its wings all across America, to be able to capture this great compassionate spirit."—O'Fallon, Mo., Mar. 18, 2002
"There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all. ... I can't think of anything more deep than that right."—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
"I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region."—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
"The suicide bombings have increased. There's too many of them."—Albuquerque, N.M., Aug. 15, 2001
"Brie and cheese."—Taunting a reporter who recently spent time on the West Coast, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 23, 2001
"You'll hear people say it's racist to test. Folks, it's racist not to test. Because guess who gets shuffled through the system oftentimes? Children whose parents don't speak English as a first language, inner-city kids. It's so much easier to quit on somebody than to remediate."—Referring to his education bill, Independence, Mo., Aug. 21, 2001 (Thanks to Julie Reagan.)
"One of the interesting initiatives we've taken in Washington, D.C., is we've got these vampire-busting devices. A vampire is a—a cell deal you can plug in the wall to charge your cell phone."—Denver, Aug. 14, 2001
"There's a lot of people in the Middle East who are desirous to get into the Mitchell process. And—but first things first. The—these terrorist acts and, you know, the responses have got to end in order for us to get the framework—the groundwork—not framework, the groundwork to discuss a framework for peace, to lay the—all right."—Referring to former Sen. George Mitchell's report on Middle East peace, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 13, 2001 (Thanks to Michael Shively.)
"My administration has been calling upon all the leaders in the—in the Middle East to do everything they can to stop the violence, to tell the different parties involved that peace will never happen."—Crawford, Texas, Aug, 13, 2001 (Thanks to Michael Shively.)
"You saw the president yesterday. I thought he was very forward-leaning, as they say in diplomatic nuanced circles."—Referring to his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Rome, July 23, 2001 (Thanks to Alex Hernandez.)
'I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe—I believe what I believe is right."—Rome, July 22, 2001
Fabulous list, but might I add one of my favourites, his comments on America's gun culture:
"For every fatal shooting there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And folks, this is unacceptable in America."
Originally posted by Graeme Fabulous list, but might I add one of my favourites, his comments on America's gun culture:"For every fatal shooting there were roughly three non-fatalshootings. And folks, this is unacceptable in America."
ahhh...we shall practice our marksmanship so that more shootings are fatal...for our beloved president!!!!
In the interest of equal time and balance, I thought I'd share some choice tidbits with y'all relating to the person who almost stole an election: algore.
So, strap yourselves in for laugh-a-minute comedy.
Mammogram...sonogram...honey graham...
At an event in Las Vegas on Monday, 09/1800, Gore declared potential breast cancer victims faced "a long waiting line before they could get a biopsy or, uh, or a uh, another kind of, what am I looking for, a sonogram or...." People in the crowd shouted "mammogram." (Source: Fox News 09/18/00; MSNBC 09/21/00 - The News with Brian Williams) "Had that happened to Bush the news media would have used it to further the theme that the Texas Governor has a troubled relationship with the English language." - Brian Williams 09/21/00
Equal...if not more so?
"When my sister and I were growing up," Mr. Gore told a small audience made up mostly of women, "there was never any doubt in our minds that men and women were equal, if not more so." (Source: NY Times, 08/12/00) Equal - if not more so? More so what? More "equal"? Who is more so? If two things are equal, what is the "more so" for?
I was part of those discussions! Really!
At a Sept. 22 press conference, Gore stated "I've been a part of the discussions on the strategic reserve since the days when it was first established." However, President Ford established the Strategic Petroleum Reserves when he signed the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPCA) on December 22, 1975 — two years before Al Gore became a congressman (Source: Washington Post, Sept. 24 2000) (note: it was actually 13 months, not 2 years as the Post states) Now, technically, 1975 was when it was declared U.S. policy to establish a reserve, but the reserve was not established (sites purchased or built, etc) until 1977, when Gore was in Congress. However, isn't this yet another case of "fuzzy wording"? Gore phrases the initial statement to give the impression that he was somehow responsible or "part of something" from the outset, but leaves wiggle room so that he can later justify the statement. And isn't saying he was part of "discussions on the strategic reserve" meant to leave the impression that he was was part of the planning process, prior to the sites being purchased, etc? Decide for yourself.
Let's play "Insult the Host"
Gore sometimes shows publicly that he lacks Clinton's finesse. Take a reception in Los Angeles last month. It was Gore's moment to shine before donors who ponied up $2.8 million. But he wound up egg-faced when he compared electing a Republican as president to rejecting an Oscar-winning team in favor of the producers of the Hollywood clunker 'Howard the Duck.' One of the evening's hosts, Jeffrey Katzenberg, was a driving force behind 'Howard the Duck.' The crowd tittered. (Source: USA Today, May 8, 2000 )
Hey! It's Super Tuesday... oh wait...
Several Tennesseans tried to cast votes in the presidential primary, thinking that their state was part of Super Tuesday. They weren't alone. Vice President Al Gore seemed to think so, too. Knox County registrar Pat Crippens said, "I just got off the phone with a gentleman. I had to explain we're not Super Tuesday, we're just next Tuesday." His office got about 30 calls from confused voters. In 1988, Tennessee and 12 other Southern states decided to hold their presidential primaries on the second Tuesday of March, dubbing it "Super Tuesday" in hopes of gaining national political clout. Several Northern states also held their primaries that day. More than a dozen states have since moved their primaries to the first Tuesday of the month, creating a new "Super Tuesday." Tennessee - the vice president's home state - is among six that have stuck with March 14. As reporters and photographers watched from the lobby of his Nashville headquarters on Tuesday, Gore called a "Miss Ferris" and told her, "Today is the presidential primary in Tennessee ." His expression changed as he listened to her. "Well, you know, that is right. You are absolutely right," he said before hanging up and quickly dialing the next number on his voter call list. (Source: Houston Chronicle 3/8/2000 by Houston Chronicle News Services)
A spotted Zebra.
"A zebra does not change its spots." - Al Gore, attacking President George Bush in 1992. (Sources: The Toronto Sun, 11/19/95; May 13th page of the "365 stupidest things ever said, 1999 Calendar." ALL quotes from this calendar are from a book called "The 700 Stupidest Things Ever Said") The book and calendar are by a brother and sister team called Ross and Kathryn Petras. The original book "The 776 Stupidest things ever said" was printed in March 1993, and the calendar was printed August 1998.)
Michael who?
Maybe Michael Jordan hasn't made an indelible impression on everyone outside Chicago. Speaking at a D.C. function, Vice President Al Gore, wowed by the Bulls, said: "I tell you that Michael Jackson is unbelievable, isn't he. He's just unbelievable." ( Source: The Chicago Tribune June 17, 1998 )
The earth is upside down!
In the spring 1998 - Gore called The Washington Post's executive editor to tip him off on an 'error' in the paper. 'I decided I just had to call because you've printed a picture of the Earth upside down on the front page of the paper,' Gore said. (Source: Florida Times Union 4/3/98 ) There is no 'up' in space; only on maps that orient the Earth's surface north and south. For more examples of Al Gore's vast knowledge of space, take a look at the Florida Times Union article
Left-wing idiot.
Back in 1994, Al Gore called Oliver North "the colonel of untruth" and said Mr. North was counting on political contributions from "the extra-chromosome right wing." (Sources: White House Special Briefing, 10/28/94; Washington Times, September 4, 1997 ) AL APOLOGIZES: Vice President Al Gore sent out a letter apologizing for his embarrassing "extra chromosome" jibe at Oliver North supporters, saying he had "learned an important lession [sic]." (Source: National Review, December 31, 1994.)
Gore Loves Courtney Love.
Finding himself talking to the controversial rock star Courtney Love at a Hollywood party, Mr. Gore attempted to charm her by telling her he was a fan. Rather than just accepting the easy compliment, Love cross-examined him. "He goes 'I'm a really big fan'," said Love. "And I was like 'Yeah, right. Name a song, Al'." The answer came limply back: "I can't name a song, I'm just a really big fan." Mr. Gore and his wife, Tipper, were the driving forces behind the campaign to make record companies put stickers on records that contained lyrics with sexually explicit content. (Sources: The [London] Times, 10/1/98; Courtney Love recounted this event on the May 20, 1999 Late Show with David Letterman )
Oh, my. algore just can't help himself. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth. 
It's interesting to note that only one of the Bush quotes listed above is sourced to a news organization. The rest are from individuals who may or may not have an axe to grind with the President.
Hmmmmmm.
i wouldn't expect anything less from a truck driving texan Michael. keep voting republican and keep humming Proud to Be an American....Our country is great and everyone else in the world wishes they were american so they can live in a free country...we are the envy of the world! it's great to be american! where at least i know i'm free.....
ps. which side of your truck is your american flag sticker? back window or bumper?
Cha-ching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have a winner! The one to show himself as the intolerant antithisis of egalitarianism is the.....leftist guerrilla from Seattle!?!?!?!?!?! NO WAY!
"....truck driving Texan..." That's nice. Where's my flag? It's just below my Life Member (University Of Texas) sticker and to the right of my Sports Car Club of America sticker.
Maybe you could explain to the class why that's a bad thing.
Have a great day in the Emerald City!
Your internet pal,
Michael
At least for once, it's two americans debating about their country, not everyone else picking at them :D
There were so many jokes on GW Bush when he became president, he wasn't aware that Canada is the #1 economical partner of the USA and he didn't know the name of Canada's Prime Minister (who will fortunatly retire soon), he was even said by a journalist "have you talked to prime minister Jones" (Jones wasn't the name, but i have no idea) and he said "yes".. so you see :D
Many people told us that he didn't quit the US often before becoming president.
So all that together doesn't give you a good opinion of the US foreing policies...!
Originally posted by Spotnick At least for once, it's two americans debating about their country, not everyone else picking at them :DThere were so many jokes on GW Bush when he became president, he wasn't aware that Canada is the #1 economical partner of the USA and he didn't know the name of Canada's Prime Minister (who will fortunatly retire soon), he was even said by a journalist "have you talked to prime minister Jones" (Jones wasn't the name, but i have no idea) and he said "yes".. so you see :DMany people told us that he didn't quit the US often before becoming president.So all that together doesn't give you a good opinion of the US foreing policies...!
Put us out of our misery Nick,
who is the Prime Minister of Canada 
The only one i can remember is Treadeau (?) with the 'racy' wife
Here's another Bushism, from the campaign trail 2000, it was on NBC News if you want the transcript:
"People seem to think Social Security is for retirement, but it's not."
As my grandpa and I both said at the time, "Dumbass!" 
Originally posted by Spotnick You don't wanna know...!Trust me.
everyone should know who our prime minister is, nic. jean chritien(is that how you spell it?)
Originally posted by snucker > Originally posted by Spotnick> You don't wanna know...!> > Trust me.
everyone should know who our prime minister is, nic. jean chritien(is that how you spell it?)
I should say Jean Crétin...
And for Trudeau, thank God, the b****** is dead.
Sorry for that never wiched somebody was dead before.
Jean Chrétien...
Ugly and stupid if you ask me, we'll have Paul Martin in 16 months or so, but still.
Funny, when you think about it, when's the last time an english-canadian was prime minister for a long time (that excludes Joe Clark).. ? Gee, I wasn't borned!
Spotty,
Yes, it's true that President Bush had not traveled beyond North America all that often before taking office. However, President Bush (or any other president for that matter) does not make foreign policy out of whole cloth all by himself. That's what former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and current SecState Colin Powell and National Security Advisor Condileeza Rice et al are for.
I realize that it's PC to hate on President Bush, but at least be fair and intellectually honest.
P.S.
Funny how Bacon Lettuce Tomato doesn't seem to like responding to questions posed to him..............
I read Michael Moore's book on holiday (can't remember the name, my mate brought it). Funny as hell and quite insightful, especially the bits on GW Bush. It's sometimes easy to forget that there's an informed, liberal intellectual class over there. If you're in any doubt that there is buy the book.
Grahame,
Yes, Mr. Moore is somewhat of a folk hero to the radical left wing in this country. He's done well for a college drop-out (which, by the way, enriches his cult of personality within the ranks of the radical left. See ,a man - President Bush - who earns degrees from Yale AND Harvard is considered "stupid" because he doesn't subscribe to the proper dialectic) .
His platform for stardom was his documentary, "Roger and Me". It was about his quest to interview the former chairman of General Motors. He wanted to ask him, based on GM's profits, why he was closing so many plants. It was very interesting.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott Grahame,Yes, Mr. Moore is somewhat of a folk hero to the radical left wing in this country. He's done well for a college drop-out (which, by the way, enriches his cult of personality within the ranks of the radical left. See ,a man - President Bush - who earns degrees from Yale AND Harvard is considered "stupid" because he doesn't subscribe to the proper dialectic) .His platform for stardom was his documentary, "Roger and Me". It was about his quest to interview the former chairman of General Motors. He wanted to ask him, based on GM's profits, why he was closing so many plants. It was very interesting.
Man you remind me of my neighbour dude, you:square:
Michael, I have enough on my hands with my ultra-conservative family so pardon me if I don't have time to respond to all yelps from the right wing. Politics and politicians make me sick as a whole with no side being 100% right or wrong and everyone looking out for their own agenda. Music is my passion and i will debate a good music related topic until the cows come home. I left Louisiana so I wouldn't have to listen to people like you talk shit about how great Bush (41) is and how awful Clinton is/was.
Brian DONT FENCE ME IN Geaux
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson I read Michael Moore's book on holiday (can't remember the name, my mate brought it). Funny as hell and quite insightful, especially the bits on GW Bush. It's sometimes easy to forget that there's an informed, liberal intellectual class over there. If you're in any doubt that there is buy the book.
Was it Stupid White Men and Other Sorry Excuses for The State Of The Nation !! (i bought it thinking it would explain the reasoning for SOTN on the end of brudderhood)
Brian,
I agree with your assessment of most politicos and their parties. Obviously, you and I are diametrically opposed to each other in our beliefs. However, that does not preclude us from being civil.
Peace to you,
Michael
As the media trys to classify things, you either are thrown in with the left or right wing fringe of politics these days, with no room for a middle ground. It's a shame that, in a nation supposedly tolerant of differing views, the minute one side gets in power it defines what is acceptable, and all who differ are somehow "misguided". At any rate, I look at it this way: The last two decent men from both the Republican and Democratic parties were both killed by an oddjob (one in a theater in Washington, DC, the other in a soup kitchen in LA) are long since gone, and we're left with the partisan residue. Of course, that's just my opinion......
When Dubya walked into the office, it took him only a few weeks to put the world community against him -- I'm thinking of the fact he ripped off the Kyoto Accord for instance -- and 3 months after, after the plane spying on China incident, I told one of my friends: "this idiot is gonna start World War III", so in that respect, September 11th wasn't a surprise.
I think Bush is a dangerous man which is surrounded by dangerous people.
Among them, Donald Rumsfeld may be the most dangerous. This is a maniac.
I still can't believe your Nation elected these people...
The Kyoto Accord was and is a joke. He's done his job as the leader of a sovereign nation to protect that country's interests.
It's the same song, different verse. We (The United States) should forgive all Third World debt and EXCLUDE them from most covenants of ANY pollution reduction agreement. All this while we (The United States) should be forced to suffer under the most stringent of regulations.
Just a tiny point of irony: then Vice President Al Gore and his entourage burned over FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND PUONDS of jet fuel on his round trip to Kyoto.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott The Kyoto Accord was and is a joke. He's done his job as the leader of a sovereign nation to protect that country's interests.It's the same song, different verse. We (The United States) should forgive all Third World debt and EXCLUDE them from most covenants of ANY pollution reduction agreement. All this while we (The United States) should be forced to suffer under the most stringent of regulations.Just a tiny point of irony: then Vice President Al Gore and his entourage burned over FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND PUONDS of jet fuel on his round trip to Kyoto.
"..forgive all third world debt..". Forgive!!!!!!! Third world debt is a direct cause of imperialist planet-raping US/Capitalist West foreign economic policy. Not the time to get into the intricacies of this but anyone with even a limited grasp of global economics knows this to be the case.
And you think that we need to "forgive" them! Christ, you people really do exist.
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> The Kyoto Accord was and is a joke. He's done his job as the leader of a sovereign nation to protect that country's interests.> > It's the same song, different verse. We (The United States) should forgive all Third World debt and EXCLUDE them from most covenants of ANY pollution reduction agreement. All this while we (The United States) should be forced to suffer under the most stringent of regulations.> > Just a tiny point of irony: then Vice President Al Gore and his entourage burned over FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND PUONDS of jet fuel on his round trip to Kyoto.
"..forgive all third world debt..". Forgive!!!!!!! Third world debt is a direct cause of imperialist planet-raping US/Capitalist West foreign economic policy. Not the time to get into the intricacies of this but anyone with even a limited grasp of global economics knows this to be the case.
And you think that we need to "forgive" them! Christ, you people really do exist.
As far as Imperialism is concerned, we (the United States) learned at the foot of the master, old sod. :)
Maybe you'd like break down your version of marco-global economics for the class at a later date. However, in my view , Third World debt can be directly attributed to horrific mismanagment by those nations receiving loans and by entities like the IMF and World Bank who suffer pressure from activists to make those bad loans. It's always cries of "racism" and of failing to recognize "cultural pluralism" if they don't make the loans.
P.S.
Please explain just who people like me are that "really do exist."
our nation did not "elect" these people. Bush appointed Rumsfeld, Cheney etc....and saying he was elected is a bit of a stretch from the truth....he was appointed by the Supreme Court, not elected.
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid our nation did not "elect" these people. Bush appointed Rumsfeld, Cheney etc....and saying he was elected is a bit of a stretch from the truth....he was appointed by the Supreme Court, not elected.
Would Gore have been any better, though? Let's face it, when you have an extreme tree-hugger versus a monkey-faced Bible Belter who cites Jesus as his favorite philosopher, those are just two extremes not worth fighting over. Bush bought the election, but we can vote him out in 2 years if the Dems are willing to run someone strong against him. Whether you like Clinton or not, you gotta admit the Republicans rode him pretty hard when he was in office, so they shouldn't be surprised that their own playbook is being used against them now. And given Gore's behaviour since the "election" of 2000, I would hope he's not in serious consideration for the ticket....
totally agree with you Tabsy. Gore lost the election. Not sure he could or would have handled the 9/11 situation any better than Bush but he definitely would have been able to secure our position on the Environment and stabilize our relationship with Europe. As I said earlier, I believe ALL politicians are Liars and Crooks so we're Fucked either way. I am embarrased by our countries leaders in a way no sex scandel could ever make me feel. Clinton got a blow-job but Bush is taking the world from behind and not letting go of the pony-tail. Bush has the perfect Southern mentality....who cares who's right or wrong, WE'RE STRONGER!!!! I don't want to talk it over, I want to crush you!!!
Originally posted by Michael McDermott The Kyoto Accord was and is a joke. .
Michael, Why is an agreement to stop polluting our planet a joke
I'll tell you a joke. Some gobshite on last nights local news objecting to a windfarm 50 miles out at sea that would generate enough power for three towns near Heysham, on the grounds that it would ruin his view. If it wasn't for all the feckin polution, the north west coastline might actually be worth visiting.
Hacienda,
Obviously, a plan to reduce world pollution is not a bad thing. However, as with anything, it gets interesting when you read the fine print.
Established industrialized nations, who've already collevtively spent BILLIONS to clean up their industries, are subject to almost childishly punative punishments for proposed violations.
Third World countries are given a free pass in order to reach "industrialized" status.
The effect of such being incredibly unfair economically to established industrialized nations.
Finally, the citizens of The United States take their national sovereignty very seriously. We're not keen on the idea of some arbitrary world organization operating within our borders.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott Hacienda,Finally, the citizens of The United States take their national sovereignty very seriously. We're not keen on the idea of some arbitrary world organization operating within our borders.
Is that why the US are so keen to operate within the bounderies of other countries ?
Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> Hacienda,> > Finally, the citizens of The United States take their national sovereignty very seriously. We're not keen on the idea of some arbitrary world organization operating within our borders.
Is that why the US are so keen to operate within the bounderies of other countries ?
I suppose it depends on your definition of "operate". If you mean do we exert authority as a regulatory body over other sovereign nations, I would say the answer is "no".
If you mean by virtue of the United States membership in a military support organization such as NATO or a world body like the UN, then the answer is "yes".
And, we have not been that "keen" on being in places such as Kosovo. However, when aked by our friends for help, we respond. I must add, that in this instance, I find it odd that the United States military must bear the brunt of responsibilty for providing men and material in Europe's back yard.
Let me also say this. The UK is the best friend the US has. I hope that continues.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> Hacienda,> > Finally, the citizens of The United States take their national sovereignty very seriously. We're not keen on the idea of some arbitrary world organization operating within our borders.
Is that why the US are so keen to operate within the bounderies of other countries ?
I suppose it depends on your definition of "operate". If you mean do we exert authority as a regulatory body over other sovereign nations, I would say the answer is "no".
If you mean by virtue of the United States membership in a military support organization such as NATO or a world body like the UN, then the answer is "yes".
And, we have not been that "keen" on being in places such as Kosovo. However, when aked by our friends for help, we respond. I must add, that in this instance, I find it odd that the United States military must bear the brunt of responsibilty for providing men and material in Europe's back yard.
Let me also say this. The UK is the best friend the US has. I hope that continues.
I think he means "operate" as in Nicaragua, Chile etc...if you get my drift.....
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson
Grahame, I like to fancy myself as having a little more of a limited grasp of global economics and I'll tell you something. Anyone with a limited grasp of global economics, proviso meant to exclude Bono, Sting and all the multimillionaire social workers, knows exactly the opposite of what you've just said to be right. Cancelling Third World Debt would cause no end of suffering to the world at large hurting the poorer the most. Very wealthy countries mismanaged by hugely corrupt and inept governments would be rewarded by their profligate mismanagement Cfr. Nigeria or Congo lending a totally undesirable new lease of live to said elites who could then opress their people maybe for a couple of generations more from the benevolent cushion of their hefty Swiss Accounts. By the same token those countries often much poorer that have been more prudent and better governed cfr. Botswana would get the morally irresponsible, wholly unacceptable message that they have been fools all the while.
Then, after a cancellation who would lend any more money to third world countries?
Still a final consideration, the money the third world countries owe is not owed to the Geoge Soros of these world, it is owed to banks and institutions ultimately owned by normal people who like you and I have some money to spare and have invested it in funds or shares or to Governments ultimately mandated by the taxpayer, that is you and I.
I am not saying we should not do anything to help those countries. Quite the contrary. It is in our interest but it is also our duty. What I am saying is let's do it right. Let's put the kibosh on the stupid Common Agricultural Police in Europe and the huge subsidies the Americans waste on their farms, let us open our markets to their agricultural and textile produce. Let us generously renegociate debt with those countries with sensible policies and democratically elected, accountable governments.
I do not expect you to come to my way of thinking but I hope you give it a little thought and also to concede that yes, such people do exist and most of the time they do not sport horns, forks and pointed tails.
Gosh, that was long, sorry! (Fingers eat your heart out!)
Grahame,
Yes, you are quite right about the "operations" that took place in Latin America during the Cold War. The justification was keeping our hemisphere free of communism. In broad terms, I guess you could say it was justified in terms of, "If they (USSR) are trying to create satellite states in our hemisphere, we should do everything to stop them."
Having Cuba 90 miles off of our shores was bad enough at the time. We learned our lessons there and vowed not to let it happen again.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott Grahame,Yes, you are quite right about the "operations" that took place in Latin America during the Cold War. The justification was keeping our hemisphere free of communism. In broad terms, I guess you could say it was justified in terms of, "If they (USSR) are trying to create satellite states in our hemisphere, we should do everything to stop them."Having Cuba 90 miles off of our shores was bad enough at the time. We learned our lessons there and vowed not to let it happen again.
And all the murderous dictatorships covertly funded by the US in Africa and South East Asia? Not quite in your back-yard Michael eh?
It's interesting that we're targeting Iraq now, ten years after the Gulf War, when the Senior Bush made the (now fatal) mistake of leaving Saddam alone, believing the Iraqi people would oust him for his failure to hold Kuwait and the devestation his campaigns brought upon their country. Now, of course, the "honorable defeat" looks a bit like Chamberlain at Munich proclaiming "peace in our time". If we do indeed go to war with Iraq (over "weapons of mass destruction"), the blame will lay sqaurely at the feet of those responsible for allowing Saddam to remain in power.
Something tells me either 1. Bin Laden is dead, and we know it but just aren't sharing it with the media, or 2. We just can't find the son of a bitch and so are looking to a new target to divert from our failure. If the first case is correct, then I support an invasion of Iraq only so long as UN inspectors find anything or aren't let back in. If (as I fear) the second is the case, it's a tough call, and one that I wouldn't want to be decided by hawks such as Cheney and Rumsfeld. Just because we were attacked doesn't mean we have free rein to change national governments at will in a what-could-be misguided attempt at protection. Not for one minute do I think Saddam should be in power, but it's awfully suspicous to me how no one was calling for this prior to 9/11, and how now it seems to preempt any attempt to locate the men we know were behind the attacks. There's still a lot of work we need to do to give Muslim nations a reason to want to cooperate in hunting down Al Qaeda, and if we go into Iraq and find Saddam has the equivalent of the Swiss Navy (i.e. no nukes), it's just gonna anger them further. Bush is painting himself into a corner, and I don't know if he has the ability to pull back in time.
T7,
A small yet important point of fact concerning why Saddam was left in power: the U.N. resolution authorizing the Gulf War specifically left OUT his removal.
One may speculate on why. My theory is that there would have been no Anglo-Arab coalition if Saddam's removal had been a part of the program. As they old saying goes in Mob neighborhoods, "They might be bad guys, but they're OUR bad guys." I think the same held true then concerning Iraq and the other Arab states.
If you want to blame Bush 41 for something, blame him for not ordering Stormin' Norman to finish the Republican Guard when he had the chance.
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> Grahame,> > Yes, you are quite right about the "operations" that took place in Latin America during the Cold War. The justification was keeping our hemisphere free of communism. In broad terms, I guess you could say it was justified in terms of, "If they (USSR) are trying to create satellite states in our hemisphere, we should do everything to stop them."> > Having Cuba 90 miles off of our shores was bad enough at the time. We learned our lessons there and vowed not to let it happen again.
And all the murderous dictatorships covertly funded by the US in Africa and South East Asia? Not quite in your back-yard Michael eh?
Once again Grahame, you are correct. SE Asia and Africa are not in the U.S.'s back yard. However, I must once again add, that in most of those cases, the U.S. was responding to a call for help from one of our "friends". "Friends" who just happened to be aligned against communism. It's easier to debate the right and wrong of involvement now without the prism of the Cold War obscuring our view.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson> > > > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > Grahame,> > > > Yes, you are quite right about the "operations" that took place in Latin America during the Cold War. The justification was keeping our hemisphere free of communism. In broad terms, I guess you could say it was justified in terms of, "If they (USSR) are trying to create satellite states in our hemisphere, we should do everything to stop them."> > > > Having Cuba 90 miles off of our shores was bad enough at the time. We learned our lessons there and vowed not to let it happen again.>
And all the murderous dictatorships covertly funded by the US in Africa and South East Asia? Not quite in your back-yard Michael eh?
Once again Grahame, you are correct. SE Asia and Africa are not in the U.S.'s back yard. However, I must once again add, that in most of those cases, the U.S. was responding to a call for help from one of our "friends". "Friends" who just happened to be aligned against communism. It's easier to debate the right and wrong of involvement now without the prism of the Cold War obscuring our view.
"Friends" being the corrupt militaries helped to power by the US more often than not against the democratic wishes of the people? How do you justify that Michael? This idea of the US as defenders of the "free" world is laughable when you consider how many undemocratic regimes were put in place and supported during their reign by the good old US of A.
And as for Cuba, which you seem so concerned about, what's your take on the embargo? Still comfortable with your country blocking US produced cancer and anti-AIDS fighting drugs? Or hospital technology? Or are you just pissed because they've got a higher literacy rate than you guys!
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > > Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson> > > > > > > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > Grahame,> > > > > > Yes, you are quite right about the "operations" that took place in Latin America during the Cold War. The justification was keeping our hemisphere free of communism. In broad terms, I guess you could say it was justified in terms of, "If they (USSR) are trying to create satellite states in our hemisphere, we should do everything to stop them."> > > > > > Having Cuba 90 miles off of our shores was bad enough at the time. We learned our lessons there and vowed not to let it happen again.> > >
And all the murderous dictatorships covertly funded by the US in Africa and South East Asia? Not quite in your back-yard Michael eh?
Once again Grahame, you are correct. SE Asia and Africa are not in the U.S.'s back yard. However, I must once again add, that in most of those cases, the U.S. was responding to a call for help from one of our "friends". "Friends" who just happened to be aligned against communism. It's easier to debate the right and wrong of involvement now without the prism of the Cold War obscuring our view.
"Friends" being the corrupt militaries helped to power by the US more often than not against the democratic wishes of the people? How do you justify that Michael? This idea of the US as defenders of the "free" world is laughable when you consider how many undemocratic regimes were put in place and supported during their reign by the good old US of A.
And as for Cuba, which you seem so concerned about, what's your take on the embargo? Still comfortable with your country blocking US produced cancer and anti-AIDS fighting drugs? Or hospital technology? Or are you just pissed because they've got a higher literacy rate than you guys!
Dearest Grahame,
What's laughable is your skewed view of history. Maybe you were never taught what "lend/lease" was. Maybe you've never heard of a Victory ship. Maybe all you learned about the U.S. was the old saw, "Over paid, over sexed and over here." Maybe the phrase "Berlin Air Lift" means nothing to you. As a citizen of the UK, I would hope the above DO have meaning to you.
I have no problem with our embargo. I'm sure Cuba can get what it needs from much more pluralistic and egalitarian countries.
Oh, one other thing, Grahame.........
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/
If you'll take a trip to the above referenced site, you will find that the UNITED STATES has a higher literacy rate than Cuba: 97% to 95.7%.
I just thought you might like to know. :p
Michael
Quality! Quoting a US government source to show that hey, the US is better than Cuba! I'm working on my source Michael, as I recall it was from a UN afilliated body, I'll let you know.
You never did square the "defenders of the free world" badge which you so proudly wear with the "backers of undemocratic brutal regimes" charge that I threw at you.
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson Quality! Quoting a US government source to show that hey, the US is better than Cuba! I'm working on my source Michael, as I recall it was from a UN afilliated body, I'll let you know.You never did square the "defenders of the free world" badge which you so proudly wear with the "backers of undemocratic brutal regimes" charge that I threw at you.
Here's one for you: North Korea is listed as having a literacy rate of 99%. That coming from the "quality U.S. government" souurce. As I recall, North Korea has never been a friend or trading partner with the United States.
As for "undemocratic brutal regimes", I've addressed the reasons for dealing with unsavory types during the Cold War in posts above.
It should be remembered, Grahame, that often times the badge of "defenders of the free world" is thrust upon us. I would much rather see more of YOUR lads dealing with that stinking tosspot known as the Balkans instead of ours.
"...that stinking tosspot known as the Balkans..."
Nice words Michael, real nice. I'm sure the members of NewOrderOnline who come from Yugoslavia and Macedonia (and yes I've checked, there's 5) will really appreciate that description of their homeland. Not white or Christian enough for you down that neck of the woods?
Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson "...that stinking tosspot known as the Balkans..."Nice words Michael, real nice. I'm sure the members of NewOrderOnline who come from Yugoslavia and Macedonia (and yes I've checked, there's 5) will really appreciate that description of their homeland. Not white or Christian enough for you down that neck of the woods?
Grahame,
You might be right. "....stinking tosspost known as the Balkans...." may have been somewhat harsh. To clarify, and as evidenced by my quote, I find the AREA to be the stinking tosspot. Maybe I just find "ethnic cleansing" (ON BOTH SIDES) to be distasteful. Here's a question for you, Grahame: why, in your opinion, can they not get their collective acts together? Does it really take the Iron Fist of communism to keep them from openly killing each other in the streets?
As far as your assertion that the Balkans are not "white" or "Christian" enough for ME, shouldn't you really be asking that question to some of the many factions in the Balkans? Conversely, shouldn't you be asking some of the other factions why they think it's TOO "white" and "Christian? That would be the crux of their problems now, wouldn't it?
To clarify further, I come from German (75%) and Irish (25%) stock and am Roman Catholic. That would most definitely preclude me from being the typical American WASP.
I have never read such jingoistic, flag waving bollocks in all my life.
So there's a CIA "fact" book is there?
Having grown up with a much loved family member who "worked" for the aforementioned agency (at an internationally senior level before you look to query this statement) I can assure you that your brainwashed view of the "facts" is both tired and very, very predictable, not to mention frequently inaccurate.
Iron fist of Communism? Talk about the pot & the fucking kettle!
I'm NOT defending G because he's a fellow Scot but more as a rection to your sad devotion to the flag. Check the program and in future look beyond your spoon-fed societies reliance on recieved rather than PERCIEVED information. It's not THAT hard you know.
Originally posted by FourFortyFive I have never read such jingoistic, flag waving bollocks in all my life.So there's a CIA "fact" book is there?Having grown up with a much loved family member who "worked" for the aforementioned agency (at an internationally senior level before you look to query this statement) I can assure you that your brainwashed view of the "facts" is both tired and very, very predictable, not to mention frequently inaccurate.Iron fist of Communism? Talk about the pot & the fucking kettle!I'm NOT defending G because he's a fellow Scot but more as a rection to your sad devotion to the flag. Check the program and in future look beyond your spoon-fed societies reliance on recieved rather than PERCIEVED information. It's not THAT hard you know.
445,
That certainly was a well reasoned, thoughtful "retort".
It would seem that you are attacking me for (among other things) having a love of my country. Why would that be?
Where, exactly, are my facts wrong in your most esteemed view? You've made what seems to be an extremely prejudiced diatribe against me personally instead of a reasoned review of what has been said in this thread.
In addition, you should take a trip to the CIA fact book website before making such a sweeping condemnation.
Cheers...I guess
Michael
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid our nation did not "elect" these people. Bush appointed Rumsfeld, Cheney etc....and saying he was elected is a bit of a stretch from the truth....he was appointed by the Supreme Court, not elected.
Late reply:
I almost forgot about that election incident! Can you imagine how much things would be different if Al Gore had been elected ?
(whatever Michael McDermott thinks of this -- after all, he's from TEXAS isn't he!!!!)
(why do I feel I just opened a door for Jeff to reply?)
Originally posted by Ruined in a B > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> our nation did not "elect" these people. Bush appointed Rumsfeld, Cheney etc....and saying he was elected is a bit of a stretch from the truth....he was appointed by the Supreme Court, not elected.
Late reply:
I almost forgot about that election incident! Can you imagine how much things would be different if Al Gore had been elected ?
(whatever Michael McDermott thinks of this -- after all, he's from TEXAS isn't he!!!!)
(why do I feel I just opened a door for Jeff to reply?)
I don't know that it'd be any different. As pissed as I was at the time when I found my vote didn't count for anything, I must say that early on Bush did the best job of trying to keep America together. Bonus points as well for his part to ease any hatred directed at Muslims (i.e. don't blame all for the actions of a few). However misguided his stance on Iraq may end up to be, he has done some good. Gore just doesn't seem as capable to do what Bush has done positively. Of course, that doesn't mean I will be voting Republican anytime soon, but that's what I think anyway.
Quoting a CIA "fact page" is the clearest signal yet that you are indeed one of many young fools who not only believe but choose to support his countries own propaganda machine. Each to his/her own of course but who in their rght mind could stand up and defend such a total waste of space as G.W.Bush without bursting into peals of uncontrolled laughter? The man is an oaf with the intelligence of a peanut.
Why oh why is such a right wing young man a "fan" of such a left wing band I wonder - & don't tell me it's because you like the music. "Pure anger & gloom" - Wrong again Michael...
Did you look at the bands name and decide you had finally found what you'd been looking for all these years?
The "gloom" merchants you claim to love would loathe your opinions. Sadly, your views (which before anyone tries the smart-ass approach are/represent your basic rights) are widely held in the good ol' US of A.
Originally posted by FourFortyFive Quoting a CIA "fact page" is the clearest signal yet that you are indeed one of many young fools who not only believe but choose to support his countries own propaganda machine. Each to his/her own of course but who in their rght mind could stand up and defend such a total waste of space as G.W.Bush without bursting into peals of uncontrolled laughter? The man is an oaf with the intelligence of a peanut.Why oh why is such a right wing young man a "fan" of such a left wing band I wonder - & don't tell me it's because you like the music. "Pure anger & gloom" - Wrong again Michael...Did you look at the bands name and decide you had finally found what you'd been looking for all these years?The "gloom" merchants you claim to love would loathe your opinions. Sadly, your views (which before anyone tries the smart-ass approach are/represent your basic rights) are widely held in the good ol' US of A.[/quote
445,
Oh how you make my argument for me! You, as an obvious leftist guerrilla, will always fall back on the time worn (but unfortunately effective tactic) of attacking the person instead of the argument.
Let's examine:
You and your fellow leftist Glasgowian attack me for utilizing a U.S. government resource for something as benign as literacy rates. Grahame has stated previously that he would refute the evidence that I presented. I will continue to hold my breath.......
Your attacks on President George W. Bush. In your most learned opinion you proclaim, "The man is an oaf with the intelligence of a peanut." How, exactly, would you know that? It might interest you to know that he earned his undergraduate degree from Yale and his Masters from Harvard. Now, I don't know where YOU may or may not have earned a degree from, but I'd wager the President would happily compare curriculum vitae with you any day of your choosing.
Your personal attacks on me for my interpretation of New Order. Where to start........music, I think we can all agree, is considered a form of art. As such, it is subject to interpretation from the consumer thereof. Therefor, there are no WRONG interpretaions. Isn't that the function of art?
Your extremely vile, hateful insinuation that I would choose to be a fan of a particular artist because of alleged anti-Semitic undertones in their names. Among those who subscribe to the PC/leftist dialectic, you have just committed a hate crime against me. For the record, 445, I had NO idea about those accusations until I came to places like this.
Finally, you have shown in the finest leftist tradition that tolerance, egalitarianism, inclusion and cultural pluralism have, are and will always be a one way street. I'm quite sure that you giggled like a randy school girl when you wrote,"Each to his/her own of course .....". The late Benny Hill couldn't have written better comedy.
Firstly Michael I don't like being labelled politically. I've never been a member of any party, pressure group or political organisation. I too was born and raised a Roman Catholic and still hold dear many of the values that came from that upbringing. That's why I get pissed off when I see people starving in Africa as a consequence of Western greed. Or when I see that the US is preventing the distribution of much needed pharmaceuticals to Cuba. Better that the Cuban AIDS victims die than the US considers even patially lifting the embargo?
My point is the arguments I have been having with you are not motivated by any political agenda, more from my standpoint as a humanitarian. So don't get my back up by labelling me a "leftist guerilla", christ even your language smacks of the extreme right-wing.
Are you sure you didn't stumble on this website by mistake? Next time type in "New WORLD Order" and you'll probably find what your looking for.
And it's Glaswegian, not Glasgownian ;0)
PS FAO FourFortyFive. U changed yer moby number again? Gis a call at that dive bar on West Regent Street 572 4041. In all day 2moro.
Boo hoo Michael. Your "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he didn't exist....." quote could not have been chosen any more aptly could it?
Dress your fascist crap in whatever flowery and drawn out language you want but the net result is the same.
As for for being left wing or leftist - bang on. You got that part right. I have absolutely no shame or problem in holding my hands up to that accusation. I am proud of the fact that despite being force fed complete shite by the British media for more than 3 decades I am capable of seeing through the bullshit & lies and even more capable of making up my own mind about what's what politcally. Having travelled the world extensively since the age of 8 I've seen first hand the effects of hard line communism on its' countries people and sadly the effects of its collapse. I know which I preferred.
You have demonstrated that you are clearly so right wing as to be out of reach of logic or reason. Bush is an asshole Michael. No matter how many time you hold his CV up for scrutiny the facts are there to be seen by the world daily/nightly on televisions throughout the world. He can barely string a sentence together without humiliating himself. I fear for all our futures with this man holding so much power.How ANYONE can set out to defend that particular blemish on the arse of the United States is way beyond my ken.
My "vile" suggestion that your interest in the Order may stem from your political views is merely an observation based on YOUR comments - "pure anger & gloom" Which band were you referring to there Michael? No faking remember!
If I attacked you personally Michael it's because you made yourself such an easy target. I do NOT expect people to agree with anything I think or voice but obviously I wrongly expected most similarly aged young men & women to feel a little more decency & morality in this day & age. Your devotion to the flag is sad in the extreme & I suspect that despite your obvious intelligence you are unable to form an independent political opinion due to years of Starred & Striped brainwashing. Even as I type this I know that I am wasting minutes of my life which could have been better spent reading the Morning Star of course...
Cue more pinko, commie, lefty comments - you're a NAZI Michael.
P.S. - No problem G. We must get together & discuss our cells next guerilla activities.
all I wish to know is...
how many times must a thread be closed before it indeed dies???
please...nic, seb or shuglet...whichever one of you keeps opening this one back up, please...let it pass on?!?!?!?!?!?
