So it has begun...

Just thought of another song...

Men at Work, "It's a Mistake" :headoff:

:\pissedoff:

BUSH

Originally posted by almanso i just turned my tv on and saw it....shit, man, i feel so fooking useless right now.....what a fooking mistake this is.....

Same here. I actually feel quite threatened as well, working within 100 yards of the Houses of Parliament, as they are a likely terrorist target.

These are worrying, trying times indeed. Only time, and those who write the history books, will tell whether or not Bush and his puppet Tony Blair are right to barge into Bhagdad. I don't think many sensible people are fooled by the humanitarian slant they put on things, after all, the butchery the Iraqis have suffered at the hands of Saddam had gone unchecked for years before he had the rush of blood that swept him into Kuwait in the early nineties.

Let's remember though that the same public who slate Bush and Blair for their stance would have their heads on a silver platter if the price of oil was to soar as a result of non action against what is after all an evil dictator who has made his intentions only too clear in the past.

Make no mistake, war is stupid, but when evil greedy capitalists rule the world war is always inevitible. Only God knows what the outcome will be and where the devastation will end. The most certain thing in the world now though is that once Saddam Hussain has had Martyrdom thrust upon him by the greedy West the killing will not stop for a long long time. The terrorists will be more determined than ever. Who can blame them??

May God have mercy on all of us, especially those about to kill or be killed.

Peace!!

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb EYES-UH !!! > Originally posted by almanso i just turned my tv on and saw it....shit, man, i feel so fooking useless right now.....what a fooking mistake this is.....

Same here. I actually feel quite threatened as well, working within 100 yards of the Houses of Parliament, as they are a likely terrorist target.

Didnt realize you were so near to me!! im working in Picadilly.

We'll have to have an ale soon, i'll drop u an email... :)

Originally posted by Muffy These are worrying, trying times indeed. Only time, and those who write the history books, will tell whether or not Bush and his puppet Tony Blair are right to barge into Bhagdad. I don't think many sensible people are fooled by the humanitarian slant they put on things, after all, the butchery the Iraqis have suffered at the hands of Saddam had gone unchecked for years before he had the rush of blood that swept him into Kuwait in the early nineties.Let's remember though that the same public who slate Bush and Blair for their stance would have their heads on a silver platter if the price of oil was to soar as a result of non action against what is after all an evil dictator who has made his intentions only too clear in the past.Make no mistake, war is stupid, but when evil greedy capitalists rule the world war is always inevitible. Only God knows what the outcome will be and where the devastation will end. The most certain thing in the world now though is that once Saddam Hussain has had Martyrdom thrust upon him by the greedy West the killing will not stop for a long long time. The terrorists will be more determined than ever. Who can blame them??May God have mercy on all of us, especially those about to kill or be killed.Peace!!

Wise wise words Mr Muffmeister.

But indeed the 'firefighting' cant go on forever...

Now that it's started, let's try and get the damn thing over with soon.

My opposition comes mainly from the fact that it's a preemptive strike. In the whole history of US-foreign relations, a preemptive strike is very rare and indeed against the national character of the United States. We don't attack unless provoked.

As anti-Bush as I admitedly am, I hope we come out of this war on top, victorious, with no bitter peace. Just for once, I'd like to be proven wrong for being such a pessimist.

Whether you support the action or not, keep in mind there are young people on both sides being used as cannon fodder. Support our troops and hope for a swift victory. If this war becomes a debacle (and I pray that it doesn't) we can always vote the responsible parties out of power. Like I said, I hope my dire predictions of earlier are proven wrong.

God help ALL of US.Hope this stops very soon!Won't go into detail because i don't want to offend anyone.But i fear tomorrow i'll be crying(copyright KING CRIMSON).

well said. all i could think about last night whilst watching "Iraq War Live" on bbc was that there are people of all ages just trying to get on with life whilst all hell is breaking loose around them. tv coverage commends the bravery of us and british marines who die in helecopter crashes, yet refer to the civilian casualties only briefly as collateral damage.

my thoughts are of everyone involved, whether fighting or fleeing, on whatever 'team'. it kinda sickens me that bush and blair can snuggle up in the safety of their homes whilst risking the lives of thousands of people on their behalf.

sweet dreams...

Originally posted by Muffy Make no mistake, war is stupid, but when evil greedy capitalists rule the world war is always inevitible. Only God knows what the outcome will be and where the devastation will end. The most certain thing in the world now though is that once Saddam Hussain has had Martyrdom thrust upon him by the greedy West the killing will not stop for a long long time. The terrorists will be more determined than ever. Who can blame them??May God have mercy on all of us, especially those about to kill or be killed.Peace!!

So, would you rather have evil, greedy socialist ruling the world???? We've all seen how that ends up.

As for this war begetting more terrorism, we havn't heard much from our friend in Lybia in a while, have we........

And, WHEN we find UBL, double tap him square between the eyes, bathe him in pig's blood and bury him in pig's skin, we won't hear from his boys for a long time either.

Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by Muffy> > > Make no mistake, war is stupid, but when evil greedy capitalists rule the world war is always inevitible. Only God knows what the outcome will be and where the devastation will end. The most certain thing in the world now though is that once Saddam Hussain has had Martyrdom thrust upon him by the greedy West the killing will not stop for a long long time. The terrorists will be more determined than ever. Who can blame them??> > May God have mercy on all of us, especially those about to kill or be killed.> > Peace!!

So, would you rather have evil, greedy socialist ruling the world???? We've all seen how that ends up.

As for this war begetting more terrorism, we havn't heard much from our friend in Lybia in a while, have we........

And, WHEN we find UBL, double tap him square between the eyes, bathe him in pig's blood and bury him in pig's skin, we won't hear from his boys for a long time either.

When have we seen an 'evil greedy socialist' running the world? Stalin was a lot of unpleasant things, but not 'greedy', and he never ran the world.

What was that about Libya? What point are you attempting to make there? The last things he got up to were arming the IRA and the Lockerbie bomb (if that ludicrous show trial can be believed), both some years after the US bombed his country. If anything caused him to change tack it was the end of the USSR and the logic of his own eccentric mental processes (he being the Micheael Jackson of despots), rather than our blowing up his adopted baby daughter.

I doubt the US will ever find Osama. Its probably better than 50-50 that he's already dead, under a hundred tons of rock somewhere. And how will using pig-skin hurt him?(unless you believe in Islam yourself?) Or do you just want to strike back at Muslims in general?

Wars do, in general, tend to create damaged people, who may go on to become terrorists, e.g. Afghanistan and Algeria. But I don't claim to know what will happen in this particular case, the crystal ball is still clouded in murk.

Originally posted by Michael McDermott As for this war begetting more terrorism, we havn't heard much from our friend in Lybia in a while, have we........

actually, libya is still involved in the funding of international terrorism, be it overtly or covertly (sometimes it is done secretly, sometimes the government openly flaunts the relationship). for example, it helps to fund the palestinian islamic jihad, one of the two organizations currently unleashing suicide bombers against israel. and, as 404 mentioned above, libya was most probably responsible for the lockerbie bombing in 1988, which occurred more than two years after the US bombing of tripoli. the reason we haven't 'heard much from [them] in a while' is because the US has shifted its focus elsewhere--i.e. iraq. it does not mean that libya has stopped financing terrorism! quite the contrary!

Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > > Originally posted by Muffy> > > > > > > > When have we seen an 'evil greedy socialist' running the world? Stalin was a lot of unpleasant things, but not 'greedy', and he never ran the world.> > > > And how will using pig-skin hurt him?(unless you believe in Islam yourself?) Or do you just want to strike back at Muslims in general?>

Let's see, how about "Great Leader" and "Dear Leader" in NO KO and Castro in Cuba and any and all former Soviet leaders. Do you think the average Ivan had a chance to own a Zil limo or have a summer dacha? And the Soviets ran about half the world until "the wall' came down.

As far as Islam is concerned, it doesn't matter what I believe, it's what THEY believe. If radical Islamist fear that they won't get to put the wood to the sixty-two (or however many) virgins they've been promised because their bodies where defiled and seen as unclean in the eyes of Allah, then maybe they'll rethink their life choices.

Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by 404 error> > > > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > > > > > Originally posted by Muffy> > > > > > > > > > > > When have we seen an 'evil greedy socialist' running the world? Stalin was a lot of unpleasant things, but not 'greedy', and he never ran the world.> > > > > > And how will using pig-skin hurt him?(unless you believe in Islam yourself?) Or do you just want to strike back at Muslims in general?> > >

Let's see, how about "Great Leader" and "Dear Leader" in NO KO and Castro in Cuba and any and all former Soviet leaders. Do you think the average Ivan had a chance to own a Zil limo or have a summer dacha? And the Soviets ran about half the world until "the wall' came down.

As far as Islam is concerned, it doesn't matter what I believe, it's what THEY believe. If radical Islamist fear that they won't get to put the wood to the sixty-two (or however many) virgins they've been promised because their bodies where defiled and seen as unclean in the eyes of Allah, then maybe they'll rethink their life choices.

The difference in living standards between the Soviet elite and the ordinary Russian was really rather small, especially when compared to the gulf between the rich and the rest in the West, especially the US, or indeed in the various despotic regimes backed by the West during the cold war. The communist elite clearly had many many unpleasant qualities, (including paranoia and sadism in the case of Uncle Joe) but 'greed' really isn't an applicable epithet. That would be better aimed at Western allies like the Marcos's, Somoza or the Shah of Iran.

As far as Islam goes, it seems pretty obvious to me that your suggestion would serve more to offend and inflame would be-muslim-radicals than to deter them.

I'm so glad i live in Stoke. Although if a terrorist attack happened here the place would look the same after.