Hooky the Hero of Liverpool

[black]This is the 3rd time I've not been able to post this so don't know what is going on here?

Anyway as someone who was at the Liverpool gig and miraculously didn't get any problems from the security I just want to say a big thank you to Hooky for sticking up for us New Order fans who got a raw deal from the (being polite) over enthusiastic security/police who decided to eject anyone who came down the front (despite there being acres of space on the front row!), taking photographs (not a problem at most gigs I've been to!) and even chatting to the Roadies! In all honesty I don't know WTF set the security/police off as I've seen New Order twice before at Manchester Apollo and the crowd there were a million times more rowdy than anything at the Liverpool gig. Also I don't know WTF set the security guys off as the 'yellow jacket' I spoke to was very friendly with me when I chatting to him about New Order/Joy Divison so what turned them into Robocop having a malfunction I don't know?!

Also I'm originally from Liverpool and they're building a 'new' Kings Dock Arena. However with the security fiasco on Saturday what chance has Liverpool got of attracting major (or even minor) league artists to the city when the security guys p*** the artists off so much so that they threaten to walk off the gig a stand I admire Hooky for as many artists/groups would have carried on playing without giving a s*** what was happening to their audience.

I'm definately going to e-mail CMP (the promoter) about the security issue and urge other NOOLers to do the same and if Hooky is viewing this once again thanks for taking time out to defend your fans and also acknowledging me (I was the one in row 4 with the denim jacket) who waved at you after you made your (just) outburst! Cheers Mate!![/black]

Welcome!

This has been discussed on and off this site and I doubt you'll find many people to disagree with what you've said on here.

The problem with gigs that don't allow standing at the front is that 'the front' is where people who want to make noise and jump around in time to the music (this movement is often referred to as 'dancing', but owes little to formal styles of choreography). Forcing these noisy reprobates to stay in their seats, necessarily scattered around the venue, only causes a problem for those other concert-goers who are (quite legitimately) more interested in standing still in appreciation of the performance.

I'm one of those people that makes a bit of noise at a gig and I wave my arms around all the time (even when I'm not watching live music). So the poor bastards in front of me had to endure me shouting, singing along and yelling at my mates for the first few songs until Hooky said we could go forward. As for the people behind me - what a terrible time they must have had - I'm well over six foot in my Adidas and my arms are completely opaque. I just can't help it - I'm a big, non-see through noisy guy and guess what: so are my mates! At a normal gig, anyone who found themselves around someone who's blocking their view can budge a bit to get a better view. Not at Summer Pops though - they're forced to stand and suffer!

So the policy of not having a standing part is inherently unfair to both the noisy lot and those that would rather stand and watch.

And think how it is for a band. Aside from the fact that they don't want to see their loyal fans getting pushed about for no good reason, the 'no moving' policy deprives the band of any kind of crowd reaction. Playing music to a static, gagged audience must be like telling jokes to an audience that aren't allowed to laugh. No wonder Hooky was pissed off.

Not letting people take pictures is just nonsense as well. It's not as if the lads get photo approval on all images taken. But that's another post...

Even once the leash had been relaxed, it was stressful to see people randomly and forcibly removed from the front, all the way through the gig. One guy was pulled from the front during the second to last song; that can only be interpreted as a spiteful act by the steroid-addled bouncers.

Ah, the bouncers! They were absolutely loving it. Shining lights in people's faces, repeatedly demanding to see their tickets, asking them to move a couple of feet. Standing in front of them so they can't see and then chucking out anyone who protests - what a hoot that must have been!

It doesn't really matter after the event. I would think very hard before committing to go to another gig by the same promoter.

respect to the vikings,i was there on row aa all i saw was hardcore NO fans showing the guys in yellow how to enjoy yourself with no trouble apart from what they started.

How Keith Deals With It

Clip of Keith Richards dealing with a stage invader.

Imagine the damage Hooky could have done with his bass!

It was a bloody good night down Liverpool,as many of nights of old I've spent either in town,Wavertree or Lark Lane. But what possessed them to putting NO in a seated gig? IL DIVO were on in the week! to the HOOKSTER! After a few well-timed putdowns,the security backed off,and the MONTSTER pushed up to the front barrier for some aggressive ROCKET-like dancing!

Johnny Come Lately wrote: How Keith Deals With It

Clip of Keith Richards dealing with a stage invader.

Imagine the damage Hooky could have done with his bass!

Cheers for the Welcome Johnny and thanks for sharing the Keith Richards clip it would have been fooking hillarious if Hooky had have done that to the security!!

Going to try and compose a rational e-mail to CMP about the security issue on Saturday and if you're going to Wembley in October hope to bump (no pun intended) into you there!

Just to let you know I've e-mailed CMP entertainment info@cmpentertainment.com with the following e-mail

To whom it may concern

As someone who attended the New Order concert at the Summer Pops on Saturday 8th July 2006 I want to voice a complaint about the ways in which security at the event was handled.

I was not ejected or subject to any ill treatment from the security staff at the event but people I know of many of whom who've atteneded New Order gigs up and down the country without any problem where subject to poor treatment from your security staff and Merseyside Police in the form of:

1 Problems with people dancing coming down to the front row - to be fair to you this gig was advertised as a seated arena and I think if someone was blantantly pushing forward then its right for security to act. However there was plenty of space for people to come down the front to be with mates etc. and dance in front of the band. However the security didn't see it this way and anyone coming down the front was singled out for ejection from the venue with quite rough treatment and I fully support his reacton Peter Hook getting very annoyed at the way people were being ejected from the venue for petty reasons. I saw New Order at Manchester Apollo last November and I can assure you the crowd were a million times more rowdy than anything at the Summer Pops yet the security there acted only if people were pushing others around or trying to rush the stage. I'm not too sure about this but were the security personnel you used from Liverpool City Council as if so they were some of the most heavy handed security I have ever seen at a gig. Also if your rules stipulated people must stay in there seated rows without question why book an artist like New Order, who have a reputation for attracting a standing crowd to their gigs anyway as you must have known many of there fans would like to dance/get up front with them?

2 Over recation from Merseyside Police - I've heard tales that security on the night was losing control and you sent in a number of police officers to act as bouncers in the venue. For me this is wrong as a venue like this should be self policing and I've yet to see more than a minimal number of police at venues like the MEN, Wembley Arena etc. who attract artists larger than New Order yet have minimal problems with gig goers. Also I've heard the police were very heavy handed with the crowd on Saturday so much so that when they pushed people around and they objected to this they were arrested and fined for no real reason whatsoever. Again a little restraint wouldn't have gone a miss here.

3 Photography - okay using professional cameras is not really advisable at gigs but your security was confiscating/ejecting people using camera phones to take some shots of New Order who from my opinion aren't to bothered about fans taking photos of them at gigs. If also been to gigs were people are using 'professional' cameras and yet dont have a problem with security in doing so again I can't understand the over-reaction in this instance.

4 Researching the band before booking them - did you really do your homework about booking New Order at an all seated venue given they and their fans prefer to stand? I kind of thought it odd them wanting to do the Summer Pops at all as the above problems would not have really occured if you had have scraped the seated floor portion and gone for standing in this instance.

Appart from this I did enjoy seeing my favourite band, but as someone who has recently left Liverpool what chance does the city have of attracting major (or minor) league artists to future events when you have issues with security which leave a bad taste in the gig goers mouth and annoy the artist so much that they (Peter Hook) have to threaten to leave the stage and tell the security staff in none to colourful language to relax at bit with the crowd. If you people are the consortium behind the proposed Kings Dock arena you will really need to take my thoughts on board as artists will not be tempted to play there, fans will not go to see minor league talents they can see at the likes of the Liverpool Academy, Royal Court etc. and you will be left with a white elephant that will be second best to the likes of the MEN, Wembley, Metro, Hallam Arena's who'll attract the major artists and leave you with the crumbs.

I hope you take my comments seriously and look forward to your reply

Kind Regards

Alan Paul Kitching

good email - I'd be interested to hear their response... if they can read for that long with the one collected brain cell.

Shug wrote:

Top stuff Alan!

Myself and a few others have also written letters and are sending them on through Alex. I have to say yours (and the others I've seen) is a lot more eloquent than mine

We will wait and see if anything happens, but at the very least, those who were ejected for doing absolutely nothing wrong should be reimbersed for their ticket money at least.

It was my brother's firts gig and he got to see 4 songs at the most.

Usually I am not one for writing letters or complaining, but in several cases we've heard on the site, these people should not get away with ruining genuine fans and genuine good people's nights like they did.

Not heard anything from CMP Entertainment about the gig but will keep you all posted what (if any) reply I get from them about the issues on Saturday. Shug I felt like using the more colourful language a la Hooky but I doubt whether I'd get a reply. Mind you I'm not too sure whether they'd understand the words I put in my e-mail but here's hoping?! A bit s*** what happened to your brother and I hope he gets to see more of NO in the near future. Cheers!

Just to let you know I got the following e-mail today from CMP Entertainment about the issues with the Liverpool gig

We would acknowledge receipt of your complaint. This will be dealt with after the Summer Pops has finished.

Regards. CMP.

I'll keep you posted on what (if any) response CMP give me as it seems a bit of a brush off saying that they'll deal with it 'after the Summer Pops has finished' but I'll let you know what happens. Also if anyone else wants to use some of what I put in the e-mail in their complaints to CMP feel free to do so, cheers!

Cheers Alan, will be interesting to know there final response. Excellent email, far better than the crap effort I sent to Alex

"In all honesty I don't know WTF set the security/police off as I've seen New Order twice before at Manchester Apollo and the crowd there were a million times more rowdy than anything at the Liverpool gig."

maybe he was a "cure fan" and he was upset that robert smith hasnt done shit, and new order is kickin ass again....:D

kino zon wrote: "In all honesty I don't know WTF set the security/police off as I've seen New Order twice before at Manchester Apollo and the crowd there were a million times more rowdy than anything at the Liverpool gig."

maybe he was a "cure fan" and he was upset that robert smith hasnt done shit, and new order is kickin ass again....:D

LOL or maybe they were closet Westlife or (D)'il Divo fans who realised you actually need to appreciate talent like your average NO fan wey hey!

Hi there I finally got a e-mail from CMP Entertainment yesterday in regard to my e-mail I sent to them about the security problems at the Summer Pops gig. It goes like this

Dear Mr. Kitching

In reply to your email dated 11 July, we have noted your comments and would advise the following:

The Big Top is an all seated Arena and has played host to many gigs for all types of audiences. Most of the Pops audiences enjoy either sitting or standing at their seats, a situation which is not always permitted in other venues. In our temporary Arena it is not practicable to remove the seated floor portion for one show.

Our security staff have to strike a balance whilst safeguarding our audiences. Most of the time, they get the balance right and we are sorry if you felt this was not the case. For health and safety and licensing reasons for this temporary venue, they are instructed to request the audience to remain at their seats.

With regard to the police presence. A decision was taken some years ago to have a small police presence throughout the Pops, regardless of the artist. They are there to give additional assurances to fans and staff and, primarily, deal with issues that may arise which are beyond the remit of the security staff.

This is the sixth Summer Pops organised by CMP Entertainment and, with well over 500,000 fans having come through our doors in that period, the vast majority have gone away satisfied with the atmosphere, comfort and organisation inside the Big Top.

However, we have taken on board the comments you have made and thank you for taking the time to bring these issues to our attention.

Regards. CMP Entertainment

It was good of CMP to get back to me but I think there's a bit of brush off in what they say. Firstly the arena itself could have easily been adapted to have given a standing 'floor' area with the seated portion to the sides of the main floor. Secondly I conceed the police presence would be available at every gig at the Summer Pops but come off it New Order are hardly a notorious Heavy Metal or Gangsta Rap act where you might expect some trouble. Again a good venue should be able to police itself IMHO. Finally (and I kind of figured any response would be this way) they haven't considered the security staff should have had some common sense to people coming near to the stage or taking photos mainly on camera phones. Again they over-reacted to the point they forced Hooky into having his outburst at them and unless someone was trying to bumrush the stage why be so trigger happy to eject people? (power trip etc. maybe!).

Despite this I'm pleased CMP at least considered and replied to my e-mail and I'm wondering has anyone else had and e-mail/letter/response from them. Cheers!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote: With regard to the police presence. A decision was taken some years ago to have a small police presence throughout the Pops, regardless of the artist. They are there to give additional assurances to fans and staff and, primarily, deal with issues that may arise which are beyond the remit of the security staff.

That's all well and good but unless I have not been looking at the boards properly, i'd have thought that someone from the Merseyside Rozzer Squad (or at least someone who "has it on good authority" from them/LCC/CMP) would have posted that here by now.

Am I being daft? Should I go back to bed and nurse my hangover?