Gillian officially out of New Order

Originally posted by Spotnick Unspecified, we all know it's Phil Cunningham

Not necessarily. Phil was doing live work with them 01/02, but as we know, he lives in LA rather than Whalley Range. It could well be that they are working with someone else.

Who do people think it may be ? A certain Mr.Marr ?

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Spotnick> Unspecified, we all know it's Phil Cunningham

Not necessarily. Phil was doing live work with them 01/02, but as we know, he lives in LA rather than Whalley Range. It could well be that they are working with someone else.

Who do people think it may be ? A certain Mr.Marr ?

Now that would be interesting: is this mere speculation or the Order grapevine in action?

Originally posted by Spotnick

"Gillian has left completely and they don't write so many keyboard parts any more."

01/10/2003

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/entertainment/music/indieandrock/stories/Detail_LinkStory=68933.html

If its an album full of Rock the sheds and Slow Deaths i'm going to burn my pink vinyl blue monday.

Originally posted by Spotnick

A source says the latest New Order sound is similar to that which they produced in their previous guise. "It is much more like Joy Division again," he says.

That sounds promising.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Spotnick> Unspecified, we all know it's Phil Cunningham

Not necessarily. Phil was doing live work with them 01/02, but as we know, he lives in LA rather than Whalley Range. It could well be that they are working with someone else.

Who do people think it may be ? A certain Mr.Marr ?

I don't think JM is the one. He has other commitments...although it would be nice. He works so well with Bernard...

Whoa, Gilly out of NO (is it cool to refer to her as "Gilly"?)? It's just not the same...

on the plus side, it's not as if she was kicked out or od'ed or anything drastic. She just had a kid who was sick when they went on tour, and she's retired now. Maybe a comeback in a few years, hmm?

All this talk about who is in the band, and who's out evokes the memory of Destiny's Child. I hope Gil is not going to stay out forever, but if she's out the one person that would be cool to be a part of NO would be J Marr

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Spotnick> Unspecified, we all know it's Phil Cunningham

Not necessarily. Phil was doing live work with them 01/02, but as we know, he lives in LA rather than Whalley Range. It could well be that they are working with someone else.

Who do people think it may be ? A certain Mr.Marr ?

Now that would be something, but I fear this is just the grapevine stirring it!

it's NOT johnny marr...stop now

Originally posted by johnny james it's NOT johnny marr...stop now

I know, but I can always dream can't I; you never know he could collaborate for a few songs.

It's Avril Lavigne...

It was a question, not a statement or even the grapevine stirring. I asked if people thought it might be Marr.

Originally posted by Server Error in "/" Application It's Avril Lavigne...

I can just hear her now: "It's been great working with New Oder!" :D

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Spotnick> Unspecified, we all know it's Phil Cunningham

Not necessarily. Phil was doing live work with them 01/02, but as we know, he lives in LA rather than Whalley Range. It could well be that they are working with someone else.

Who do people think it may be ? A certain Mr.Marr ?

I'd rather Tim Jauncey or David Potts instead

Originally posted by Server Error in "/" Application It's Avril Lavigne...

damn and I was hoping for Michelle Branch

Kylie

Not many people here seem terribly crushed by this news. Although I understand she was not on their last tour so you probably saw it coming.

Watching her play her one finger keyboard lines and the occasional chord, would you say she was the least musically proficient New order member?

Originally posted by Joshua B Not many people here seem terribly crushed by this news. Although I understand she was not on their last tour so you probably saw it coming.Watching her play her one finger keyboard lines and the occasional chord, would you say she was the least musically proficient New order member?

Do you know about Stiffen Kittens o Berlin ?

Originally posted by N21 Kylie

I can see it now, Barney dancing on stage with Kylie wh would be wearing something in which half of her behind would be hanging out.

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by N21> Kylie

I can see it now, Barney dancing on stage with Kylie wh would be wearing something in which half of her behind would be hanging out.

As long as it's Kylie's behind, and not Barney's

Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens o Berlin ?

No. Care to share?

Originally posted by Joshua B Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens or Berlin ?

No. Care to share?

They were New Order in the past

OK and this relates to my comment how?

SANTANA!!!

Maybe on their first few gigs, they'll pull a random audience member (preferably a busty blonde with skin-tight leather trousers....or, seeing as this is a New Order show, Shug) and let them play along on keyboards for the entire gig...............

I don't mean to give credence to Spotty's insane suggestion that a certain Mr. Corgan might be available, but he did escape from the steamer trunk I put away in the attic

Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > Originally posted by Joshua B> Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens or Berlin ?

No. Care to share?

They were New Order in the past

No, Berlin was the mid-Eighties soft-rock band memorable for their hit "Take My Breath Away", from the Top Gun soundtrack. You're thinking Warsaw, Brasil 88

Now excuse me while I go get pummeled by some jocks walking home from the library

Perhaps Alan Hempsall from Crispy Ambulance is still available. Still, no-one would want to see his a*** either...

New Order without keyboards is like cereal without milk...sure you can snack on it, but it's not a complete meal. Just what i don't want to hear is that they have some second rate guitarist writing with them so they can produce a second rate ROCK ALBUM. NO THANK YOU! I fear that the boys are slowly moving towards a mainstream sound. Bernard's comments about programming synthesizers being too difficult still confuses and upsets me. If anything, synths are now easier to program. It's all down to him being an old, lazy bastard. the next album should be called RELICS. or maybe JERRY ATRICK. i personally don't want to see Phil Cunningham or any other dick with a guitar on stage or on record with the Order. Guitars are the devils work...plug in the synths and make some real music and please, let the starstruck Cuntingham focus on his own pathetic rock band.

Ooh - harsh words indeed. Does that mean that New Order without guitars would be like milk without the cereal?

It's not about one or the other, it's about the blend of the two. New Order from 1982-1993 was amazing because of that blend, and Get Ready was far too much "rocky", the only "classic" sounding tracks were "Vicious Streak" and "Here To Stay". Taking out the synth (and drum machine most likely), New Order are back to where they were in 1980. Lost. But they could recover. Couldn't they?

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > Originally posted by Joshua B> Originally posted by New Order no Brasil 88 > > Do you know about Stiffen Kittens or Berlin ?

No. Care to share?

They were New Order in the past

No, Berlin was the mid-Eighties soft-rock band memorable for their hit "Take My Breath Away", from the Top Gun soundtrack. You're thinking Warsaw, Brasil 88

Now excuse me while I go get pummeled by some jocks walking home from the library

Trevor

Hooky said it and I trust in him

I love New Order but I don't think certain members' technical skills are going to show any other band what real music should sound like. I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band. Have you seen Bernard live (I haven't...only on video) as he makes a few false passes by his guitar strings in time with the music while getting ready to actually hit the strings? I guess he's making sure his timing is right before strumming a note. I think it's cute.

good points chris but Sunrise and AOC are special because of their use of synths. Ceremony would not be half the song on record without the production of Hannet. basically, without electronics, the examples you used would just be typical rock numbers.

i agree with the poster who said it's the blend of the two that define newOrder's sound and make them so special. without a strong synth element, they just aren't as exciting. i am not calling for drum machines either, everyone knows SMorris is the best drum machine money can buy.

Originally posted by Spotnick DO NOT read this one while drinking...

I'd love to see Barney's bum hanging out. :D

Heck yeah! Or even seeing him do this! :moon:

Its Porl from Cure fame.

I read an interview of Bernard regarding the recording of Twisted Tenderness. He said it was great because it did not take 3 years of studio work to record that album. He also said he enjoyed going over to someone's home and practicing the parts before recording. Hence, less keys, more guitar easier job making the album.

Do not count Gillian out. She is just missing an album and possible tour. Do not count keys out, I cannot fathom a NO album without them. I bet Steve is pestering Gillian for programing help. Besides, its the Hooky that makes the NO sound.

Originally posted by Gillian's Cabana Boy Get Ready was far too much "rocky", the only "classic" sounding tracks were "Vicious Streak" and "Here To Stay".

Wow - you must have a pretty damn exclusive version of GR if "Here To Stay" is included on it! ;)

Wait, I just got a horrible premonition...does anyone know what Michael Bolton's been up to lately?

Please God, let me be

STEVE VAI!!!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Joshua B> I love I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band. Have you seen Bernard live (I haven't...I think you need to qualify that as the American general public. I've never once thought of New Order as a [ahem] synth...pop band, heaven forbid. Some of their finer moments - Sunrise, DNE, Age of Consent, Ceremony, etc - are anything but.

I think you had to be fairly "in the know" to recognize that list of songs. What were their biggest chart hits? Blue Monday...Bizzare Love Triangle...World in Motion...all dance chart hits. But dance music is never taken seriously by critics so it's the rock songs that become "classics."

So you strengthened my point. The general public doesn't know the "cool" songs, they only know what's in front of them--the hits. So what the general public has heard of New Order is synth pop.

Gillian R.I.P.

Originally posted by twist Its Porl from Cure fame.

Don't be so cruel. You're making me salivate - with false hope.

This is not news and I don't consider Manchester Online to be an "official" source of New Order info.

it's not about making dance tracks but using the synth as layers and then as in Age Of Consent, to fill out the glorious crescendo. i don't necessarily want another Blue Monday but something that retains the trademark elements: guitar, bass (how low can you go), the human drum machine, and synths. i hope the electronic elements remain at least as prominent as in Get Ready, preferably a nice split like Brotherhood and Technique.

Originally posted by Joshua B I love New Order but I don't think certain members' technical skills are going to show any other band what real music should sound like. I think the general public knows them most as a synth-pop band.

You septics might. We don't.

i remember hearing that Here To Stay started out as an acoustic track and many of the Electronic tracks started out much differently to how they finished so who knows what is going to happen?? i bet even they don't?

i'm just going to wait and see.

as for somebody else writing with them, i think its a good thing that might add a different dimension. we don't know who's producing yet (unless i've missed something) so that will be another significant factor too.

so technically, they should change their name since they aren't really NewOrder any more. if they had to change when ian left them hanging, surely losing gillian should result in another name change by their standards. of course, i don't really think they should or that they will but it isn't really NewOrder without Gillian is it? (cue Jarvis disputing Gillian's contribution)

did they choose the name NewOrder without Gillian in the band or as suggested in the deleted scenes on 24HPP, with Gillian?

There seems to be a tug-of-war going on between the arguements that keyboards are an essential part of New Order and would be missing from a Gillian-less album, and those who welcome the absence of so much "electronica" and more guitar-based sound. Personally, I think it's good to keep in mind that, unless they've all suffered traumatic blows to the head with a cinder block, the NO guys still have the profiecency with their instruments (no, not those instruments) to pull off a more rock-oriented sound, ala their early days as JD and after.

I don't think they'd abandon the keyboards altogether, but it might actually breathe new life into the band if they tried for a more guitar-heavy sound. I don't think Gilly's "banned for life" from being able to return to the fold, but if it would be easier on the Morrises to have at least one parent there with the kids then she's gotta be out. I would hope they'll try and include her sooner rather than later, but it all depends on how much longer they plan to continue onwards.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid so technically, they should change their name since they aren't really NewOrder any more. if they had to change when ian left them hanging, surely losing gillian should result in another name change by their standards. of course, i don't really think they should or that they will but it isn't really NewOrder without Gillian is it? (cue Jarvis disputing Gillian's contribution)did they choose the name NewOrder without Gillian in the band or as suggested in the deleted scenes on 24HPP, with Gillian?

They didn't include Phil on their last tour's (2001/2002) pictures or interviews.So he's not a member of the band just a guest guitarrist.

Was Gillian so important on keyboards or electronic New Order's sound?I don't think so.

Maybe I could be wrong.Tim,are you over there?

As arguably the least technically proficient member of the band, and as a woman in male-dominated industry, and as someone with a frequently outlandish taste in hairstyles and clothes, was Gillian THE most punk constituent in New Order?

Whether they'll miss her sound-wise is debatable, but given the choice is there actually anyone here who wouldn't want her back in the 'classic' line-up?? Really????

Originally posted by martin fradley As arguably the least technically proficient member of the band, and as a woman in male-dominated industry, and as someone with a frequently outlandish taste in hairstyles and clothes, was Gillian THE most punk constituent in New Order?Whether they'll miss her sound-wise is debatable, but given the choice is there actually anyone here who wouldn't want her back in the 'classic' line-up?? Really????

Gillian is part of the New Order story.We'll miss her dresses and comments

Originally posted by Hooky's Red Kimono > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid> so technically, they should change their name since they aren't really NewOrder any more. if they had to change when ian left them hanging, surely losing gillian should result in another name change by their standards. of course, i don't really think they should or that they will but it isn't really NewOrder without Gillian is it? (cue Jarvis disputing Gillian's contribution)> > did they choose the name NewOrder without Gillian in the band or as suggested in the deleted scenes on 24HPP, with Gillian?

They didn't include Phil on their last tour's (2001/2002) pictures or interviews.So he's not a member of the band just a guest guitarrist.

Was Gillian so important on keyboards or electronic New Order's sound?I don't think so.

Maybe I could be wrong.Tim,are you over there?

Gillian's contribution shouldn't be underestimated. She physically played second guitar and live keyboards, and she contributed to the songwriting process. As the next album will be the first recordings since she left the band, only then will we know what kind of effect it has had.

Hey, Gillian wasn't in that other band, what were they called again?, and they weren't too shabby.

Originally posted by death of art Hey, Gillian wasn't in that other band, what were they called again?, and they weren't too shabby.

Someone close to her told me she's joining 'The Inadequates' again

definately time for a name change, it wont be the same band. especially if they are getting another guitarist in for recording. why? doesnt barney play guitar and know how to operate a tape machine?

electronic was good and interesting because marr knows about 100 more chords than barney (and tried to show that on TT). bringing somebody like that in would loose the point of NO. it's simple songs.

and its not giving a damn about the bloody instruments as well. who cares about keyboards, guitars, melodica?? they play what sounds right. all keys, all guitars, who cares? not limited to a genre of stance like all these other f*ckers. Radiohead are the new kings of this area then.

are we doomed to listen to songs like the 2/3 speed version of digital the old f*ckers played live on the DVD?

i was right, the new album should be called 'Nosedive'

Originally posted by Mr Ben definately time for a name change, it wont be the same band. especially if they are getting another guitarist in for recording. why? doesnt barney play guitar and know how to operate a tape machine?electronic was good and interesting because marr knows about 100 more chords than barney (and tried to show that on TT). bringing somebody like that in would loose the point of NO. it's simple songs.and its not giving a damn about the bloody instruments as well. who cares about keyboards, guitars, melodica?? they play what sounds right. all keys, all guitars, who cares? not limited to a genre of stance like all these other f*ckers. Radiohead are the new kings of this area then.are we doomed to listen to songs like the 2/3 speed version of digital the old f*ckers played live on the DVD?i was right, the new album should be called 'Nosedive'

Why don't you visit The Smiths and Radiohead forums? They seem to be your beloved bands so don't come here to criticize New Order,ok? And those 2 sh** bands mentioned above won't be never so important to us than New Order and Joy Division.

nice reply. i assume you fit into the 'football hooligan' section of the audience?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Mr Ben> nice reply. i assume you fit into the 'football hooligan' section of the audience?

Mr Ben, by distancing yourself from Julio's comments and labelling him a 'football hooligan' are you therefore firmly entrenching yourself in the 'spotty student' camp of New Order followers?

Talking of hooligans, HERE'S a new Doves interview in which they briefly mention New Order's fanatical following.

Al

Did you observe that after Regret live from Baywatch video there's a Doves(ex Sub-Sub)song with Melanie Williams?

Yes,Al.That's it. Which album I can find it?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Hooky's Red Kimono Yes,Al.That's it.Which album I can find it?

It's on Full Fathom Five, but it's deleted.

Have a look on ebay for the single, the album itself is fairly hard to get hold of. Actually just look at winmx or kazaa, I'm sure you could find it there - it was a reasonably big hit. Top 3, I think?

Thanx

Back to the issue of guitars vs. synths, NO were years ahead of anyone else regarding their use of electronics during the 80s, but now I feel that the rest of the world have caught up with them, with bands like, say the Chemicals. Not quality wise, but just regarding combining electronics and guitars. I don't think they can still push the envelope electronics-wise, if they used synths the way they did up to now they'd probably end up with another Republic. However, I feel that Joy Division weren't a finished item; a lot was left to be said after Ian's death. However, due to personal reasons more than anything else (and media pressure), they weren't able to continue from that point, so they had to go into a totally different direction. Now they seem to be able to cope with the whole Joy Division issue-they're back playing JD songs- and perhaps it would be a good idea to continue from where they've stoppeed in 1980. It wold involve some sort of electronics, but with a totally different approach. To me, it sounds very promising-Primitive Notion is among my favourite songs from Get Ready. Steve is a brilliant drummer-a shame he doesn't do live drums all the time. Hooky is probably the most innovative bass player ever. Barney has a unique way of playing guitar, he'll need some help-but that's where the guest guitarist comes in. And I've always of thought New Order as an alternative guitar band who know to use synths very well. Regarding Gillian, I'm sad to see her go, but obviously both of them can't be away form home for prolonged periods of time and we should respect their decision. Steve is founder member of the group, he's undeniably been more influential, and following that logic, he's the one that should carry on. Regarding a possible name change, they were New Order for some time before she joined...that bails them out. Just my opinion.

This is for you Juli

the reason why i started listening to new order was because of synthesizers. if they're taking the "more guitar approach" then i'm already bored. besides, you've still got 3 members in the band that are programmers. whether they feel like it or not, that is the question. mr. disco & vanishing point were my last favorite "more synth" type of songs and i doubt they can top that now the way they're going.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Hooky's Red Kimono > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Mr Ben> nice reply. i assume you fit into the 'football hooligan' section of the audience?

Mr Ben, by distancing yourself from Julio's comments and labelling him a 'football hooligan' are you therefore firmly entrenching yourself in the 'spotty student' camp of New Order followers?

Talking of hooligans, HERE'S a new Doves interview in which they briefly mention New Order's fanatical following.

Al

Did you observe that after Regret live from Baywatch video there's a Doves(ex Sub-Sub)song with Melanie Williams?

Julio, this was shown over 10 years ago so I don't remember what followed New Order, sorry. I've got a vid of the NO appearance somewhere but can't remember the last time I watched that.

I presume you're talking about "Ain't No Love"? Quality track.

Presumably there are spotty football hooligans in the NO audience too...

Originally posted by g05 the reason why i started listening to new order was because of synthesizers. if they're taking the "more guitar approach" then i'm already bored.

if you're bored by their 'guitar-based' songs, then that would exclude a very large portion of their catalogue! while i was also initially attracted to NO because of their more electronic songs, i quickly grew to love their musical versatility.

lousy way to come back from being away...i liked gillian being in new order

One only has to listen to a song or two by The Other Two to see how much Gillian has contributed to New Order's sound. My favorite New Order songs (and the general public's also) all contain synths or keyboards in one form or another. Except for the rare use of keyboards and synths in "Someone Like You" and one or two others, I consider "Get Ready" to be one of their weakest releases. I'm not happy about Gillian being absent and I'm even more upset about New Order becoming just another "guitar-heavy" band.

were joy division not a rather "guitar heavy" band especially during their early periods?

i doubt the order would fade into a bland guitar act, perhaps a bland guitar/electronica act if they keep going until 2026.

As Michael Stipe once said "oh no ive shaved my nuts"

depends who produces the new album as to what it will sound like. If it's Osbourne again, its going to be guitar heavy, but if they go down the Chemical Brothers/Fatboy Slim (god forbid) route, it may well end up keeping a large synth/electronica influence.

Originally posted by Wayne Morris One only has to listen to a song or two by The Other Two to see how much Gillian has contributed to New Order's sound. My favorite New Order songs (and the general public's also) all contain synths or keyboards in one form or another. Except for the rare use of keyboards and synths in "Someone Like You" and one or two others, I consider "Get Ready" to be one of their weakest releases. I'm not happy about Gillian being absent and I'm even more upset about New Order becoming just another "guitar-heavy" band.

Ahem....Steve is the writer of the two. Gillian's own admission was that she contributed very little to the actual songwriting process, more to the quality control aspect.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Wayne Morris> One only has to listen to a song or two by The Other Two to see how much Gillian has contributed to New Order's sound.

However, if you'd added a bass to some of the earlier Electronic moments like Reality, Gangster and Try All You Want I think they'd all make brilliant New Order tunes.

As indeed they probably would have done if Happy Mondays hadn't nearly bankrupted Factory in 1990 !!

Originally posted by KnownPleasures

As indeed they probably would have done if Happy Mondays hadn't nearly bankrupted Factory in 1990 !!

Agreed, although I'm not sure NO's tardiness necessarily helped - and "Gangster" etc were released on by Electronic on Factory before the Mondays were let loose with any jeeps... Perhaps if they had been NO tunes Factory might have survived!

Originally posted by anita lousy way to come back from being away...i liked gillian being in new order

Me too; let's hope they're wrong about her being out for good. Come back Gillian, we miss you!