Decades - Live Debut

When was Decades live debut?

Here’s one for all you JD/NO trainspotters – when was Decades first played live? Perceived opinion is that it was at the Rainbow at the Stranglers benefit on April 4th 1980, but:

· No bootleg exists (apparently) of this gig. · The only other known JD performance of Decades was at High Hall on May 2nd 1980. · “Closer” came out 2 months after the High Hall gig and 3 months after the Rainbow. · “Still” came out 17 months after the High Hall.

Therefore, how can anyone be 100% certain that Decades was played at the Rainbow when nobody would have heard it before, no recording of the gig (apparently) exists, and it didn’t appear on vinyl for another three months?

Does anyone know any background or history here?

Just one person can solve this,Sir.Peter Hook

No,Sebs I am not

We had commented about this once here

Seb, I'm embarrassed !

A few things we do know :

1. Alan Hempsall of Crispy Ambulance thought they'd done Decades at the infamous Bury gig (Derby Hall) where Ian could only do a few numbers, though admits it may have been Passover.

2. Decades clearly hadn't been rehearsed very much before the shoddy performance at High Hall, though the soundcheck sounded better.

3. It had been recorded before the Rainbow show, so could have been performed.

4. There are also several other gigs between Feb and April 1980 that we have no info for as well - could have been played then.

Unless someone comes up with the tape now (unlikely after 23 years, unless you are a knobcheese called Intermission from the States), we will never know. Even Hooky probably can't remember, unless he has a recording !

Originally posted by KnownPleasures Unless someone comes up with the tape now (unlikely after 23 years, unless you are a knobcheese called Intermission from the States), we will never know. Even Hooky probably can't remember, unless he has a recording !

That's the point

Mark Johnson's book also says it was played in High Hall,Birmigham University for the first time,I don't trust in him so much.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures Seb, I'm embarrassed ! A few things we do know :1) Alan Hempsall of Crispy Ambulance thought they'd done Decades at the infamous Bury gig (Derby Hall) where Ian could only do a few numbers, though admits it may have been Passover.2) Decades clearly hadn't been rehearsed very much before the shoddy performance at High Hall, though the soundcheck sounded better.3) It had been recorded before the Rainbow show, so could have been performed.4) There are also several other gigs between Feb and April 1980 that we have no info for as well - could have been played then.Unless someone comes up with the tape now (unlikely after 23 years, unless you are a knobcheese called Intermission from the States), we will never know. Even Hooky probably can't remember, unless he has a recording !

True. No doubt Intermission will suddenly reveal that Decades is the "missing" 9th track on the unseen Plan K video .....

:D

Originally posted by Marko > Originally posted by KnownPleasures Seb, I'm embarrassed ! A few things we do know :1) Alan Hempsall of Crispy Ambulance thought they'd done Decades at the infamous Bury gig (Derby Hall) where Ian could only do a few numbers, though admits it may have been Passover.2) Decades clearly hadn't been rehearsed very much before the shoddy performance at High Hall, though the soundcheck sounded better.3) It had been recorded before the Rainbow show, so could have been performed.4) There are also several other gigs between Feb and April 1980 that we have no info for as well - could have been played then.Unless someone comes up with the tape now (unlikely after 23 years, unless you are a knobcheese called Intermission from the States), we will never know. Even Hooky probably can't remember, unless he has a recording !

True. No doubt Intermission will suddenly reveal that Decades is the "missing" 9th track on the unseen Plan K video .....

:D

Maybe he will confirm that Decades on HATYM is a live version from Plan K too

So, essentially the only way we will know for sure is if Messrs. Hook, Morris or Sumner come clean. That's assuming they can remember. Which I doubt Barney can. Or Hooky for that matter. So it's up to you, Stevie M.

:(

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by KnownPleasures Unless someone comes up with the tape now (unlikely after 23 years, unless you are a knobcheese called Intermission from the States), we will never know. Even Hooky probably can't remember, unless he has a recording !

That's the point

Mark Johnson's book also says it was played in High Hall,Birmigham University for the first time,I don't trust in him so much.

Mark Johnson has a way of taking something somebody told him and turning it into iron-clad fact by his wording. So someone told him they'd only played Something Must Break once ? So someone told him this was the first Decades at Brum ? Barney's a bugger for this - he's told at least six audiences they are the first witnesses to As It Is, and he told a Sydney audience that Do The Ostrich was being written live on stage for them in 1987 !!! The bottom line is that they were so fucked off with his walking round like he was important that they fed him all kinds of shit. Now that's a fact, Johnson.

The first I heard of the Rainbow tape was when someone posted that tracklisting onto a messageboard (can't remember what it was called but I think it's defunct now) saying they were surprised that no better tape of the concert had shown up than the one that they were in possession of. The poster then said he was going to go away and clean the recording up and post some mp3's. Rather unsurprisingly not another squeak was heard from him. Have you noticed that all these 'recently uncovered' recordings have very rare songs on them? Decades from the 'Rainbow tape', Novelty and Something Must Break from the 'Plan K Video' - though Something Must Break appears to have become Wilderness! Easy mistake for a JD fan to make, isn't it?

Originally posted by Philip Collins The first I heard of the Rainbow tape was when someone posted that tracklisting onto a messageboard (can't remember what it was called but I think it's defunct now) saying they were surprised that no better tape of the concert had shown up than the one that they were in possession of. The poster then said he was going to go away and clean the recording up and post some mp3's. Rather unsurprisingly not another squeak was heard from him. Have you noticed that all these 'recently uncovered' recordings have very rare songs on them? Decades from the 'Rainbow tape', Novelty and Something Must Break from the 'Plan K Video' - though Something Must Break appears to have become Wilderness! Easy mistake for a JD fan to make, isn't it?

I dunno, 23 years on and people are still coming up with hoaxes ! Don't they realise that a few of us are a bit more switched on to what is likely/realistic ? Kids with dreams of making a mark.

Does anyone have any more comments on this one? Good input from KP as always.

I do find it surprising that so many JD gigs in early 1980 weren't bootlegged, since they weren't exactly unknown at the time, Unknown Pleasures had been out a while, and Peel was playing them. I guess true fame came posthumously.

Originally posted by Marko Does anyone have any more comments on this one? Good input from KP as always.I do find it surprising that so many JD gigs in early 1980 weren't bootlegged, since they weren't exactly unknown at the time, Unknown Pleasures had been out a while, and Peel was playing them. I guess true fame came posthumously.

I'm sure the band must have recorded them, but it is surprising that things haven't been leaked after all these years.

I have the same opinion,Tim.

They taped and filmed everything when they came to brazil in 1988. I think they have been doing it since their early days as Joy Division too.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Marko> Does anyone have any more comments on this one? Good input from KP as always.> > I do find it surprising that so many JD gigs in early 1980 weren't bootlegged, since they weren't exactly unknown at the time, Unknown Pleasures had been out a while, and Peel was playing them. I guess true fame came posthumously.

I'm sure the band must have recorded them, but it is surprising that things haven't been leaked after all these years.

Bearing in mind Factory's somewhat haphazard nature (to put it mildly!) it's more of a wonder there's as much around as there is! I think we can safely assume that their tapes of the Moonlight Club and Derby Hall are lost forever - I wonder how many others?

OK, bootleg question:

In 83/84/85 audience bootleggers would have used the early Sony Walkmans, which were pretty good really. But what kit did they use in 79/80? Handheld cassette recorders with plug-in mikes, or what? Anyone?

Originally posted by Marko OK, bootleg question:In 83/84/85 audience bootleggers would have used the early Sony Walkmans, which were pretty good really. But what kit did they use in 79/80? Handheld cassette recorders with plug-in mikes, or what? Anyone?

The Bidet boys at Bowdon Vale used to have a "huge tape machine".....

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Marko> OK, bootleg question:> > In 83/84/85 audience bootleggers would have used the early Sony Walkmans, which were pretty good really. But what kit did they use in 79/80? Handheld cassette recorders with plug-in mikes, or what? Anyone?> >

The Bidet boys at Bowdon Vale used to have a "huge tape machine".....

My mother had one on late 70's you could also use microphone in it to record your stupid comments as I did

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Marko> OK, bootleg question:> > In 83/84/85 audience bootleggers would have used the early Sony Walkmans, which were pretty good really. But what kit did they use in 79/80? Handheld cassette recorders with plug-in mikes, or what? Anyone?> >

The Bidet boys at Bowdon Vale used to have a "huge tape machine".....

God knows what was used to tape the Berlin gig!

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Marko> OK, bootleg question:> > In 83/84/85 audience bootleggers would have used the early Sony Walkmans, which were pretty good really. But what kit did they use in 79/80? Handheld cassette recorders with plug-in mikes, or what? Anyone?> >

The Bidet boys at Bowdon Vale used to have a "huge tape machine".....

God knows what was used to tape the Berlin gig!

:) Always sounded to me like the record head on the tape deck wasn't working properly, or the battery was flat. Pity, as that is the only copy of the show that was made. That might explain why there are only 6 complete and 2 part songs from the set, when they were doing 15 on that tour.

Back in the days when the 'In Between Days' site used to have loads of gig information on it, the following explanation was given about the Berlin tape...

"Why such a low sound quality grade? Erratic tape speed! This problem goes back to the master. The guy taping the gig pressed record and initially all seemed well. Soon he noticed a problem with the tape speed of his recording machine and in addition he could hear strange sounds coming from it. Putting the built-in speaker to his ear he discovered the cassette double tracking. Whilst recording Joy Division it was playing Aretha Franklin from the B-side. That's the story!"

Haven't noticed any Aretha Franklin but then again I don't think I've ever listened to a complete song from that gig...

Originally posted by Philip Collins Back in the days when the 'In Between Days' site used to have loads of gig information on it, the following explanation was given about the Berlin tape..."Why such a low sound quality grade? Erratic tape speed! This problem goes back to the master. The guy taping the gig pressed record and initially all seemed well. Soon he noticed a problem with the tape speed of his recording machine and in addition he could hear strange sounds coming from it. Putting the built-in speaker to his ear he discovered the cassette double tracking. Whilst recording Joy Division it was playing Aretha Franklin from the B-side. That's the story!"Haven't noticed any Aretha Franklin but then again I don't think I've ever listened to a complete song from that gig...

Then again......