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In the thread "Are new order rubbish?" is the following message:
Originally posted by AgentWood I lent 'substance' (a good beginners CD) to one of my 14-year-old students today. If he learns anything this year in my class, and if I have any effect on his life....
My question is: would you lent your copys of Unknown pleasure and Closer to 14-year-old kids ? I mean, their music touches you in your core. Can kids of that age handle that? What are your experiences or expectations?
Put it this way. I was 13 when I first discovered Joy Division, and was able to go out and buy their records as they were released. They are what you make of them.
I was introduced to Joy Division when I was 14.
A friend lent me his Unknown Pleasures,I would do the same :D
Originally posted by Barton Street 77 I was introduced to Joy Division when I was 14.A friend lent me his Unknown Pleasures,I would do the same :D
I'm not sure you are the best advert for introducing kids to Joy Division !
Yeah, think that's a bit patronising: I was 13/14 when I got into NO/JD and I certainly don't think I was 'damaged', or couldn't 'handle the gravity, maaan' in any way (apart from the financially-crippling, borderline obsessive nature that afflicts us all in this department!).
Frankly, if it was up to me, Joy Division & New Order would be on the national bloody curriculuum: its gotta be better than all that neo-metal/'pop-punk'(aaargh!)/gimp rock/post-grunge/emo-core cack that 'the kids' seem to love so much these days....
Bloody hell, am I getting old or what???
Originally posted by martin fradley Frankly, if it was up to me, Joy Division & New Order would be on the national bloody curriculuum: its gotta be better than all that neo-metal/'pop-punk'(aaargh!)/gimp rock/post-grunge/emo-core cack that 'the kids' seem to love so much these days....Bloody hell, am I getting old or what???
Don't forget how awful hip-hop is nowadays.
You are not getting old; bad music is just being marketed more vigorously, and today's youth is biting it hook line and sinker. Radio stations, in LA and SD specifically, became famous in the eighties by playing music alternative to the awful metal of the eighties, but today these stations like KROQ and 91X play are dominated by all this crap pop rock and not embracing today's real alternative music, does good alternative music still exist 
??? KROQ has a huge influence over every teenage white kid in LA and Orange county; for example, my best friend only likes songs played on KROQ, and I have yet to find music that he likes that has not been played on that station.
I've tried sharing my love of JD/NO with my younger sibs, who are now getting into their teens. I think my sister is a bit mroe open to them, I've gotten her to grudgingly admit that NO is "alright", but she'd rather my copy of Pet Sounds or LA Woman than UP or Low-life. I'm not gonna try and force it on them, to be sure...though I have been tempted anytime my sister pops in an Alabama CD (the band, not the state) 
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 I've tried sharing my love of JD/NO with my younger sibs, who are now getting into their teens. I think my sister is a bit mroe open to them, I've gotten her to grudgingly admit that NO is "alright", but she'd rather my copy of Pet Sounds or LA Woman than UP or Low-life. I'm not gonna try and force it on them, to be sure...though I have been tempted anytime my sister pops in an Alabama CD (the band, not the state)
My younger brother puts up with my New Order music; he actually likes some of the music videos, but there is no way I can sway him from his obsession over Green Day, Sum41, and Blink 182. What is worse is that he also enjoys Japanese pop music, which I cannot understand. My older sister knows about New Order, but she is a DM and U2 fan.
Originally posted by
> Originally posted by Barton Street 77 I was introduced to Joy Division when I was 14.A friend lent me his Unknown Pleasures,I would do the same :D
I'm not sure you are the best advert for introducing kids to Joy Division !
That's a good way to be introduced to their elder sisters,they always appear to complain about the sound of music 
Originally posted by Server Error in "/" Application Lend a JD CD is better than lend a Michael Jackson CD.
You are right Andrei 
Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
Yeah, that's a fair point, Al - and to give 'em credit, the kids do seem to REALLY love the stuff: I've a number of students who travel down to London (from Aberdeen!) on a regular basis to catch the latest death-core (or whatever) act in from the States. How they afford it is beyond me....
That said, I did nearly have a fight over Christmas dinner last year when my sister's fiance told we that JD/NO were "nothing compared to Jimmy Eat World". I nearly killed him with roast parsnip!!
Originally posted by
I'm not sure you are the best advert for introducing kids to Joy Division ! If the kids are going to end up like Julio I think it's better to keep them away from Joy Division.
i dont think Joy division or any other music from your youth can mean as much to the following generations of Music Listeners, back in the day people got into joy division and new order becuase their sound was fresh and they tried to do things differently today people get into joy divison because they "Sound Like Interpol" (i dont think they do but its been said billions of times) so i agree people have to discover their own music and most people never do they just go with the crowd, which is fine
Originally posted by One Brain > Originally posted by
I'm not sure you are the best advert for introducing kids to Joy Division ! If the kids are going to end up like Julio I think it's better to keep them away from Joy Division.
BOOM!!!
My kids hear enough JD to be able to sing along to some, and pick out particular, tracks. However, they're too small (9 & 6) to realise the significance of any of the lyrics. It greatly depends on the kid anyway, some teenagers are more susceptible to that kind of stuff than others. I was 15 when I first heard JD and it never done me any harm (I don't think). At the same time, I prefer to play NO rather than JD when they're around. Even without understanding the words, the voice and music are dark enough to convey that depressing feeling.
Originally posted by martin fradley > Originally posted by Al Jarvis Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
Yeah, that's a fair point, Al - and to give 'em credit, the kids do seem to REALLY love the stuff: I've a number of students who travel down to London (from Aberdeen!) on a regular basis to catch the latest death-core (or whatever) act in from the States. How they afford it is beyond me....
That said, I did nearly have a fight over Christmas dinner last year when my sister's fiance told we that JD/NO were "nothing compared to Jimmy Eat World". I nearly killed him with roast parsnip!! I used to like Jimmy Eat World for their catchy tune "Sweetness", but every other song by them bothers me. Next time use a steak knife to kill your future brother in law
Originally posted by Al Jarvis Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
The voice of reason!
Originally posted by Marko > Originally posted by Al Jarvis Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
The voice of reason!
Nothing better than a father to say this
No plans to be father for a while 
Originally posted by Barton Street 77 > Originally posted by Marko> > > > Originally posted by Al Jarvis> Just my opinion, but first and foremost kids should surely be listening to what their peers are listening to. They should get off their arses, go out and see bands live with their mates, then if they've got a genuine thirst for music they should branch out and discover some sounds which perhaps aren't as relevant in this day and age, but still worth a listen. I wouldn't recommend Joy Division as a first port of call, but you should stop off and browse their sounds somewhere down the line.
The voice of reason!
Nothing better than a father to say this
No plans to be father for a while
But you can still practice the first step towards being a father..... :sex:
Originally posted by Nanne a.k.a. SkullCrusher In the thread "Are new order rubbish?" is the following message:> Originally posted by AgentWood> I lent 'substance' (a good beginners CD) to one of my 14-year-old students today. If he learns anything this year in my class, and if I have any effect on his life....
My question is: would you lent your copys of Unknown pleasure and Closer to 14-year-old kids ? I mean, their music touches you in your core. Can kids of that age handle that? What are your experiences or expectations?
actually, i did just that to one of my students today! we were discussing music the other day and he was asking me about the clash, the sex pistols and the cure (yes, that band, boys and girls), which he's getting into right now. i told him about JD, which i started listening to when i was his age and gave him the JD substance tape, my first JD purchase (along with the cure's atanding on the beach, the singles) to peruse.
as for whether he can 'handle it'...what exactly does that mean? i started listening to joy division at 14 so why shouldn't he? do certain bands have ratings? does he need an ID to purchase? hell, that 14-year-old will 'get' JD a lot more than my 62-year-old mother would, that's for sure! if he's interested in hearing it, why shouldn't i lend it to him?
to answer al's post: as for what my students' peers are listening to (both the one i gave the NO CD to and the one i gave the JD tape to):...well, they're all excited about going to the george clinton new year's eve show!
Chris
We have something in common related to Joy Division : same age of start and first purchase. 
Originally posted by Barton Street 77 ChrisWe have something in common related to Joy Division : same age of start and first purchase.
aah yes. wonder if i could get through to my student who is into styx and rush, or the girl who is obsessed with journey! she wears her journey concert t-shirt to school...and she's not being ironic! gotta love that kid. :D
don't think they'd be interested, but perhaps the 2 students i gave the music to will start a revolution! ok, maybe not.
Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by Barton Street 77 ChrisWe have something in common related to Joy Division : same age of start and first purchase.
aah yes. wonder if i could get through to my student who is into styx and rush, or the girl who is obsessed with journey! she wears her journey concert t-shirt to school...and she's not being ironic! gotta love that kid. :D
don't think they'd be interested, but perhaps the 2 students i gave the music to will start a revolution! ok, maybe not.
Give the Journey fan detention for a week
Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by AgentWood> > > > Originally posted by Barton Street 77> ChrisWe have something in common related to Joy Division : same age of start and first purchase.
aah yes. wonder if i could get through to my student who is into styx and rush, or the girl who is obsessed with journey! she wears her journey concert t-shirt to school...and she's not being ironic! gotta love that kid. :D
don't think they'd be interested, but perhaps the 2 students i gave the music to will start a revolution! ok, maybe not.
Give the Journey fan detention for a week
hell no. any american high school student with the cojones to wear a journey t-shirt has all of my respect!
imagine 20 years ago describing a journey fan as a free spirit! my how the world has changed.
I came home from college last year and discovered a large Joy Division poster occupying my little brother's bedroom wall. I've successfully converted him to JD, New Order, The Cure, Depeche, Boingo, et al. He's 16 and he loves the stuff. I was all of 18 years of age when I got into both JD and NO, so it makes for good teen angst music.
Originally posted by frank smarra i dont think Joy division or any other music from your youth can mean as much to the following generations of Music Listeners, back in the day people got into joy division and new order becuase their sound was fresh and they tried to do things differently today people get into joy divison because they "Sound Like Interpol" (i dont think they do but its been said billions of times)so i agree people have to discover their own music and most people never do they just go with the crowd, which is fine
I also got into JD aged 14, when Substance 1977-1980 came out, so I wouldn't say they sounded particularly fresh then!
Lot of 'kids' get into much older music than the stuff that is around during their youth. Incidentally, I like Interpol because they sound like Joy Division! It all depends on what stirs your emotions I guess (or makes you want to dance like a loon).
Not that long ago, kids were getting into the Beatles on the back of their love for Oasis (boo!). Before that they might have got into Sex Pistols or Husker Du because of Nirvana, or whatever. Everything is recycled eventually, and it's no bad thing. I got into loads of stuff that I like now by working back from other things, eg New Order >>>> Kraftwerk.
I think it would be a shame to "misunderestimate" what kids of 14/15 are into as being all boy-bands and R'n'B.
Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> I've tried sharing my love of JD/NO with my younger sibs, who are now getting into their teens. I think my sister is a bit mroe open to them, I've gotten her to grudgingly admit that NO is "alright", but she'd rather my copy of Pet Sounds or LA Woman than UP or Low-life. I'm not gonna try and force it on them, to be sure...though I have been tempted anytime my sister pops in an Alabama CD (the band, not the state)
My younger brother puts up with my New Order music; he actually likes some of the music videos, but there is no way I can sway him from his obsession over Green Day, Sum41, and Blink 182. What is worse is that he also enjoys Japanese pop music, which I cannot understand. My older sister knows about New Order, but she is a DM and U2 fan. Some Japanese pop/rock music isn't that bad. Gakht isn't that bad, although I wouldn't go out and buy one of his albums. And Mad Soldiers, the band that does the songs for the anime series Gravitation, is pretty good. You just have to not listen to the lyrics, or find a translation. But, at least your brother listens to his own music. My sister, at 17, still borrows CDs off my mother, but has enough nerve to criticize NO. Then again, since she now was offended by Bernard Sumner, I have some new ammunition to keep her out of my room.
