New Order - Spain 1984 - new date?

Found a Cabaret Voltaire gigography at http://www.brainwashed.com/axis/cv/live.htm

Apparently, they played a few dates with New Order in Spain. What's interesting is *both* Palma and Pacha are listed for *separate* Valencia dates, with the 12 JUL 84 being heretofore unknown (at least on any gigography I've seen)

05.07.84 Etole, Madrid, Spain with New Order

06.07.84 Palma Club, Valencia, Spain with New Order

07.07.84 Studio 54, Barcelona, Spain with New Order

10.07.84 Marbella TV Studio, Spain with New Order

--> 12.07.84 Pacha, Valencia, Spain with New Order

I've seen this advertised before by a trader, but when I got the tape it was exactly the same as the Valencia Pacha recording. Now they may have played two dates a few days apart in the same city, with dates elsewhere in between (not tour logical), but there is no way they would have played the same songs with the same bum notes and comments twice !

The gig took place on the 6th July, and the venue was called Pacha - the original tape I had had a scan of the ticket on the cover that confirms this. As far as I can trace, there is no venue called Palma in Valencia. Palma is a district of Valencia. From the Valencia Online site - Pacha. Emilio Baro, 71. Live rock and pop concerts. Open from Thursday to Sunday.

Note that the Madrid venue is also different, and the Marbella listing is as a TV studio (which may explain the 5 songs only recording) rather than a gig at the Estadio Municipal.

Originally posted by Grant Hart [I've seen this advertised before by a trader, but when I got the tape it was exactly the same as the Valencia Pacha recording. Now they may have played two dates a few days apart in the same city, with dates elsewhere in between (not tour logical), but there is no way they would have played the same songs with the same bum notes and comments twice !

It's interesting (or useless, depending on where you stand) to speculate whether this CV listing might be the source of that individuals dating, or a product of it.

The gig took place on the 6th July, and the venue was called Pacha - the original tape I had had a scan of the ticket on the cover that confirms this. As far as I can trace, there is no venue called Palma in Valencia. Palma is a district of Valencia. From the Valencia Online site - Pacha. Emilio Baro, 71. Live rock and pop concerts. Open from Thursday to Sunday.

Yeah, I couldn't find a 'Palma' venue either when I looked.

Was this gig broadcast on FM? Maybe we're dealing with both the gig date and the broadcast date getting listed.

Note that the Madrid venue is also different, and the Marbella listing is as a TV studio (which may explain the 5 songs only recording) rather than a gig at the Estadio Municipal.

re Madrid, could "Etole" and "Rock-ola" be related terms? I'm not familiar enough with Spanish to tell.

re Marbella: Good point, I should correct that, as I was aware those were TV studio dates. WIM reads "The Stadium", is this an Anglicization of "Moniciple", seems likely that it is. I have a hard time believing Cabaret Voltaire would tag along for this, so maybe the CV listing is derived from some other New Order listing...unless NO did *both* a TV studio appearance and a gig there, but the evidence doesn't bear that out, no?

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One Originally posted by Grant Hart[I've seen this advertised before by a trader, but when I got the tape it was exactly the same as the Valencia Pacha recording. Now they may have played two dates a few days apart in the same city, with dates elsewhere in between (not tour logical), but there is no way they would have played the same songs with the same bum notes and comments twice !It's interesting (or useless, depending on where you stand) to speculate whether this CV listing might be the source of that individuals dating, or a product of it. Possibly, but are there any Cabs fans out there really ?The gig took place on the 6th July, and the venue was called Pacha - the original tape I had had a scan of the ticket on the cover that confirms this. As far as I can trace, there is no venue called Palma in Valencia. Palma is a district of Valencia. From the Valencia Online site - Pacha. Emilio Baro, 71. Live rock and pop concerts. Open from Thursday to Sunday. Yeah, I couldn't find a 'Palma' venue either when I looked.Was this gig broadcast on FM? Maybe we're dealing withboth the gig date and the broadcast date getting listed.Not that I know of - Barcelona and Marbella were both broadcast, Barcelona on TV and Marbella on FM radio. It is a possibility that the Cabs listing has confused the Valencia date with the Barcelona TV. Depends on how the gigography was put together I guess.Note that the Madrid venue is also different, and the Marbella listing is as a TV studio (which may explain the 5 songs only recording) rather than a gig at the Estadio Municipal.re Madrid, could "Etole" and "Rock-ola" be related terms?I'm not familiar enough with Spanish to tell.My translator didn't recognise "etole" !re Marbella: Good point, I should correct that, as I was aware those were TV studio dates. WIM reads "The Stadium", is this an Anglicization of "Moniciple", seems likely that it is. I have a hard time believing Cabaret Voltaire would tag along for this, so maybe the CV listing is derived from some other New Order listing...unless NO did *both* a TV studio appearance and a gig there, but the evidence doesn't bear that out, no?I've done some Marbella research. The gig venue that is in use for band working the circuit of similar sized venues and tours at the time was the Estadio Municipal. There is no doubt that the FM broadcast available is taken from a live gig, rather than a studio session, so it is almost certain that the broadcast was taken live from the gig.

Not that I know of - Barcelona and Marbella were both broadcast, Barcelona on TV and Marbella on FM radio. It is a possibility that the Cabs listing has confused the Valencia date with the Barcelona TV. Depends on how the gigography was put together I guess.

So, it looks like that there were only a total of three gigs, and the extra entry could be a later interpolation based on when one of the taped gigs was broadcast verses when it was played, but I have a feeling the confusion runs deeper than that. Geez, this feels like Biblical exegesis.

I've done some Marbella research. The gig venue that is in use for band working the circuit of similar sized venues and tours at the time was the Estadio Municipal. There is no doubt that the FM broadcast available is taken from a live gig, rather than a studio session, so it is almost certain that the broadcast was taken live from the gig.

Thanks for the info. I guess the Cabs fans are about as confused as the Cabs are, blah. Sensoria is still a great little number, though.

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One Not that I know of - Barcelona and Marbella were both broadcast, Barcelona on TV and Marbella on FM radio. It is a possibility that the Cabs listing has confused the Valencia date with the Barcelona TV. Depends on how the gigography was put together I guess.

So, it looks like that there were only a total of three gigs, and the extra entry could be a later interpolation based on when the Barcelona date was aired vs when it was played, meaning the "10.07.84 Marbella TV studio" date is really just the broadcast date for the 07 JUL 84 Barcelona performance; and maybe there's a similar thing going on with the two Valencia dates listed in the Cabs gigography...Geez, this feels like Biblical exegesis. No ! There were definitely 4 gigs. Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia and Marbella. Marbella is a bonafide gig, no doubt about that. Forget the Cabs gigography.

So, it looks like that there were only a total of three gigs, and the extra entry could be a later interpolation based on when the Barcelona date was aired vs when it was played, meaning the "10.07.84 Marbella TV studio" date is really just the broadcast date for the 07 JUL 84 Barcelona performance; and maybe there's a similar thing going on with the two Valencia dates listed in the Cabs gigography...Geez, this feels like Biblical exegesis.

No ! There were definitely 4 gigs. Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia and Marbella. Marbella is a bonafide gig, no doubt about that. Forget the Cabs gigography.

Bah, I submitted this and undid that supposition once I double-checked to see that 4 gigs were listed, hoping I could sneak it in there, but you caught me!

--Sam