The origin of Love Vigilantes

In listening to the Caley Palais Edinburgh gig, I picked up on something odd that Barney says in between Subculture and what was to be their second-ever live performance of Love Vigilantes, the first having been at Tiffany's Leeds the week before. Even then, he expresses his dissatisfaction with the way some of the songs (in this case, Subculture) were turning out:

BS: "Thanks very much. It sounds like that on the record, for sure. We would like to sound different than the record, so this next one sounds really different to the record.

This is an odd comment, suggesting that the original version of this song on their soon-to-be-released album, sounded very different than the version they ended up going with to start off Lowlife. Of course, I could be reading a bit too much into the pissed ramblings of New Order's frontman, but it is interesting to contemplate what the other version of LV would have sounded like if in fact it were the case that NO was reworking the song in early 85.

A pity that both Skullcrusher and Let's Go were vaulted, the latter would have been a perfect B-side for TPK, though I'm unsure if I would have prefered the vocal version or the instrumental. It's interesting to note that none of the single releases between Thieves Like Us in 1984 (I'm discounting Murder, everybody knows that Factory Benelux is where the bones got buried) and True Faith in 1987 featured anything but dubs or edits of the single tracks.

This must have been due to their active lifestyle during those years of tour after tour after tour...but no sane record company would have allowed the group to be so perverse as to not have b-sides for their singles. However, while TPK has a good soul mate, I can't picture what could have accompanied Subculture, Shellshock, State Of The Nation, or Bizarre Love Triangle. I think the proper way to look at is is that these were not really thought of as singles, but platters to spin at clubs.

--Sam

Originally posted by The Happy One In listening to the Caley Palais Edinburgh gig, I picked up on something odd that Barney says in between Subculture and what was to be their second-ever live performance of Love Vigilantes, the first having been at Tiffany's Leeds the week before. Even then, he expresses his dissatisfaction with the way some of the songs (in this case, Subculture) were turning out:BS: "Thanks very much. It sounds like that on the record, for sure. We would like to sound different than the record, so this next one sounds really different to the record.This is an odd comment, suggesting that the original version of this song on their soon-to-be-released album,sounded very different than the version they ended upgoing with to start off Lowlife. Of course, I could be reading a bit too much into the pissed ramblings of New Order's frontman, but it is interesting to contemplate what the other version of LV would have sounded like if in fact it were the case that NO was reworking the song in early 85.A pity that both Skullcrusher and Let's Go were vaulted, the latter would have been a perfect B-side for TPK, though I'm unsure if I would have prefered the vocal version or the instrumental. It's interesting to note that none of the single releases between Thieves Like Us in 1984 (I'm discounting Murder, everybody knows that Factory Benelux is where the bones got buried) and True Faith in 1987 featured anything but dubs or edits of the single tracks.This must have been due to their active lifestyle during those years of tour after tour after tour...but no sane record company would have allowed the group to be so perverse as to not have b-sides for their singles. However, while TPK has a good soul mate, I can't picture what could have accompanied Subculture, Shellshock, State Of The Nation, or Bizarre Love Triangle. I think the proper way to look at is is that these were not really thought of as singles, but platters to spin at clubs.--Sam

You don't always get what he says between songs very clearly, do you ? I think he was unhappy with the way they screwed it up - he has reserved that comment about sounding better on the record, or sounding different to the record, for when they have dropped what he thinks are almighty cock-ups into the middle of a set.

Don't read things into this comment about re-working songs - the only bit of Love Vigilantes that was ever reworked was the decision to have 4 bars of bassline before the melodica came in. Skullcrusher was dumped, and Let's Go was shelved, because they weren't ready in time for Low Life. They got a bit twitchy about having two instrumentals on the album, so added some lyrics at the last minute and got it wrong - the edit of TPK was a bodge job to save the album. Let's Go should only ever be an instrumental - lyrics absolutely kill it.

The Perfect Kiss edit on the album is rather strange - not least, it misses out the crucial lines of the song - and I have often wondered how it ended up like that. Your explanation is a good one - what evidence do you have for it?.

I was listening yesterday to the Barcelona gig (7 July 84) which also has a great version of Skullcrusher (with random lyrics) on it. It's very different from the other live version I've heard (the 441 bootleg, I forget which gig that is), both of which are very different to the Salvation instrumental version. Any suggestions of other great and 'different' versions of songs from around then would be very gratefully received.

(my original reply got lost to the "hit preview to wipe out what you wrote and substitute the quoted reply instead" bug, so I'm a bit of an Unhappy One at the moment, having to rewrite it. But it's probably for the best...)

You don't always get what he says between songs very clearly, do you?

Oh, god no. I'm lucky to make out the words, much less the meaning. My first thought was along the lines of what you were suggesting, but what confused me was that the album hadn't been released when he said that. But I skipped the obvious explanation--the group were previewing the songs on the album (all but Elegia were played that night) and felt they were making a hash of it. Not that his phrasing was particularly clear, mind you.

Skullcrusher was dumped, and Let's Go was shelved, because they weren't ready in time for Low Life.

Yeah, I wasn't altogether clear that Skullcrusher wasn't ever considered as an album track. Yeah, was there much more to Skullcrusher live than Hooky's bass and some lyrics Barney cobbled together over the top, and the recording of it was only done later? Or was it indeed recorded in 1984, and then abandoned until the Salvation soundtrack?

They got a bit twitchy about having two instrumentals on the album, so added some lyrics at the last minute and got it wrong - the edit of TPK was a bodge job to save the album. Let's Go should only ever be an instrumental - lyrics absolutely kill it.

Ah, I forgot that TPK wasn't supposed to have been on the album. Why not delay the album until they could properly work on additional songs? Touring commitments, Factory cash-flow issues, or what?

As for Let's Go, the original lyrics weren't that bad (though they do drag the song down and are better absent) compared to the Nothing For Me abomination that graced the Best Of...what on earth possessed Bernard to do that? Oh, New Order the group weren't a going concern by then and there wasn't anything in the vault to offer as a "new track", so there was not much of a choice there, I guess.

--Sam

I didn't mean YOU don't always get them Sam, I meant "we" don't always get them, as in "you the listener" :)

Originally posted by Iain Smedley The Perfect Kiss edit on the album is rather strange - not least, it misses out the crucial lines of the song - and I have often wondered how it ended up like that. Your explanation is a good one - what evidence do you have for it?.

Sid told me in Paris !

Originally posted by ShugZV© Who's Sid?

Well if you don't know that by now......

clue 1 - he's a real Scotsman. clue 2 - not been here recently

Originally posted by The Happy One (my As for Let's Go, the original lyrics weren't that bad (though they do drag the song down and are better absent) compared to the Nothing For Me abomination that graced the Best Of...what on earth possessed Bernard to do that? Oh, New Order the group weren't a going concern by then and there wasn't anything in the vault to offer as a "new track", so there was not much of a choice there, I guess.--Sam

Why were the new lyrics written anyway ?

Yeah, another example of complete and utter failure to understand that the US is not the be-all and end-all of success. There are probably more English people in Corby than New Order record buyers in the US, despite everyone's best efforts !!

Originally posted by KnownPleasures Yeah, another example of complete and utter failure to understand that the US is not the be-all and end-all of success. There are probably more English people in Corby than New Order record buyers in the US, despite everyone's best efforts !!

Or even the fact that even us yanks are smart enough to recognize crap when we hear it.

Originally posted by robin > Originally posted by KnownPleasures Yeah, another example of complete and utter failure to understand that the US is not the be-all and end-all of success. There are probably more English people in Corby than New Order record buyers in the US, despite everyone's best efforts !!

Or even the fact that even us yanks are smart enough to recognize crap when we hear it.

Even ? That's the whole point - the band thought they could just spit more crap out and it would be snapped up just because Blue Monday had been once ! Far too many English bands have tried and failed to break the US market - the Gallagher brothers being a recent case in point. I don't think New Order ever understood the rules stateside.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures I didn't mean YOU don't always get them Sam, I meant "we" don't always get them, as in "you the listener" :)

Sorry, didn't mean to get my knickers in a twist over that one...

Check this site regarding US sales figures

http://www.riaa.com/gp/database/default.asp

G=Gold, sales of 500,000 P=Platinum, sales of 1,000,000 M=Multi-Platinum, multiply the number by 1,000,000

So Substance is there twice (plus once as a video), and Technique and Republic also went gold. I see no Low-Life, Brotherhood or Worst Of, which is what we were talking about as failed sales gimmicks !

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Blimey, New Order have fared a bit better in the US than I ever gave 'em credit for.

Then of course it depends on how the lists are compiled. Most of the lists in the US is based on sales or radio-play. (82.7% of all statistics is fiction.)

For sales, some records can ship in huge numbers to the stores and be counted as sold records - but then they sit on the shelves without being bought by the public. Eventually they end-up in the discount-bin...

It takes much, much longer for a track to end up on the US radiostations' playlists (can anyone say Clear Channel, aka. We're Taking Over The World Channel) than in most European countries. I don't think that's a good indicator of popularity either.

IMHO, the best way to track "popularity" is to look at lists where people/listeners are voting.

OTOH, NO/JD are very respected among the college-stations here in the US...

/TLV