FAO TLV - Trainspotting horseshit re Discography

Top job with the updates, very good! I've been through my vinyl this week and have some info you might find useful for a future update:

Singles

1. Ceremony UK 12", green sleeve. I checked mine and can confirm (in answer to your "(possibly)") that the copies with the re-recorded version are FAC33A1, well at least mine is, and does have the "This ..." annotation on it. Of course this doesn't preclude some being FAC33A2...

2. Hacienda Xmas flexi. I have a copy of this without labels. I am not sure if it is a promo or a bootleg, but it has the correct Matrix no. Record Collector magazine's discography about 1990-ish did mention a promo without label, but I'm never quite sure whether mine is!

3. Blue Monday 12”. Groove notation. I have two UK pressings of this, one has the “Out Voted” and “Ho El & Tel” notation, but the other has no notation at all. The one with no notation was bought new (from HMV) in 1989, so must be a fairly late pressing.

4. Confusion UK 12”. Groove notation. Again I have two UK pressings, one with an embossed sleeve, one without. Neither copy has any groove notation (although the embossed sleeve copy is presumably an earlier pressing than the other).

5. The Perfect Kiss. I have two UK 12” of this, one with a red inner sleeve, one with a black. The red inner copy has the groove notation listed in the Discography, but again the other copy has no groove notation.

6. The Perfect Kiss UK promo 7” (FAC 123). The promo UK version has the following groove notation:

(a)“That’s Soul Folks” (b)“Feel It’s A Hottie”

7. Shellshock 12”. My copy has the same groove notation as you list for the 7”.

8. Bizarre Love Triangle UK 12”. Yet again, my copy has no groove notation. This one was bought new in 1989 as well, so is presumably a late pressing.

9. True Faith edits. The UK 7” (FAC183-7) and the US 7” (9 28271-7) do not have the same A-side edits. The UK 7” has an edited version of the full 12”, as was standard practice with UK 7” edits for New Order. This clocks in at 4:10.

The US 7” on the other hand contains an edit of the Shep Pettibone remix, clocking in at 4:02. This remix edit is also found on the B-side of the Qwest US 7” of Blue Monday 88 (9 21887-7).

To get the two edits on CD, you need the following:

The UK CDV (FACDV 183) lists a “7 inch” version as track three. Bizarrely although the CDV was a UK release, the 7” version in question is actually the US edit, not the UK one. This same version is also the lead track on the US promo CDS (Qwest PRO-CD-2899), where it is listed as the “morning sun remix edit”.

To find the UK edit on CD you need the same US promo CDS, which lists it as “album edit”. Phew! I don’t have any of the other True Faith 7” listed, so I don’t know which ones contain the UK 7” and which contain the US edit.

10. Regret (Sabres Fast 'N' Throb). The UK promo has a 13:31 version which doesn't fade out where the synth line comes in. This is different to the version on the French CD5 and the Japanese Republic which fade at 12:11. The regular UK 12" also has the faded out version. Although I have the UK promo 12", I haven't yet found the full version on any CD. I have a crappy MP3 though which I can send you for info if you like.

Albums

1. P,C &L. Groove notation. My UK LP (FACT 75) has the following groove notations:

(a) “The Robot” (b) “The Robot Where’s Murder?”

Which I notice that you have listed for one of the Blue Monday pressings…

2. Substance 1987. I have both the gatefold and non-gatefold LP versions and the groove notation on side A is identical on both, i.e. it includes the dates 21.12.78 – 5.6.87. Can you confirm that this is actually missing from some of the standard LP pressings?

3. International. You appear to have missed the standard UK CD pressing (London 0927492262) which came as a single CD with no bonus CD or DVD.

thanks for all the info..

i'll have to update my 'songography' as well..

later

|| | ||| ||| neg ative 1

Originally posted by death of art 2. Hacienda Xmas flexi. I have a copy of this without labels. I am not sure if it is a promo or a bootleg, but it has the correct Matrix no. Record Collector magazine's discography about 1990-ish did mention a promo without label, but I'm never quite sure whether mine is!

There do exists some white label promos. Well, promos may be a loose term given the sound quality. White labels are typically not listed since most pressings have white labels (or testpressings). Some of them may not have leaked to the market though...

[No groove notations] Hmm, it seems as if later reissues by Factory (or possible some European pressing plant) perhaps did not have the groove notation. What does the cat# say? Matrix#? Any other groove info?

9. True Faith edits.

I will be looking into this and other timing issues (discussed elsewhere) this summer when I have full access to my collection. These discrepancies are driving my nuts. Thanks for the info though.

10. Regret (Sabres Fast 'N' Throb). The UK promo has a 13:31 version which doesn't fade out where the synth line comes in. This is different to the version on the French CD5 and the Japanese Republic which fade at 12:11. The regular UK 12" also has the faded out version. Although I have the UK promo 12", I haven't yet found the full version on any CD. I have a crappy MP3 though which I can send you for info if you like.

Hmm, I must have forgotten to fix this. It'll be in the next revision.

1. P,C &L. Groove notation. My UK LP (FACT 75) has the following groove notations:

(a) “The Robot” (b) “The Robot Where’s Murder?”

Which I notice that you have listed for one of the Blue Monday pressings…

I can't remember exactly where the info comes from, but I have to double-check later this year. Maybe someone here can straighten things out. I have no problem with the 12" and LP having similar groove notations.

2. Substance 1987. I have both the gatefold and non-gatefold LP versions and the groove notation on side A is identical on both, i.e. it includes the dates 21.12.78 – 5.6.87. Can you confirm that this is actually missing from some of the standard LP pressings?

Could be on later pressings perhaps.

3. International. You appear to have missed the standard UK CD pressing (London 0927492262) which came as a single CD with no bonus CD or DVD.

I was under the impression that International was not released in the UK. Are you sure it's not the German release?

Thanks, /TLV

Hi TLV,

I'll get back to you with the extra groove info at the weekend.

As for International, it's a London CD, not a Warners one, but I take your point about it possibly being the German one, which has the same catalogue number - it could be that it is German. I've checked the inlay which states that it was manufactured in Germany, so that ties in too!

Cheers,

Alken

Right, here's some additional stuff:

Blue Monday

On the copy without notation, the run off groove contains:

(a) FAC-73-A1* TOWNHOUSE MAX (b) FAC-73-B1* MAX

Confusion embossed sleeve 12"

I've checked this and I was wrong, it does contain the B-side groove notation (sorry for any "confusion"). However, I have now noticed various differences between this 12" and the non-embossed one.

Embossed:

Groove notation

(a) FAC93A1 GIGI Timtom-cbs (b) FAC93B1 GIGI NOT THE WAY I WOULD'VE DONE IT!

The tracks fill up almost the entire disc. The label is grey-white (like the background of the sleeve) with a yellow square and a mauve square.

On the sleeve, the 93 is mauve (matching the small square on the label).

Non-embossed:

Groove notation:

(a) Mastered by SNB FAC93AII (b) Mastered by SNB FAC93BII

The label is bright yellow and the two little squares are green and red. The tracks do not fill up quite so much of the disc.

On the sleeve, the 93 is pink rather than mauve.

TPK

The copy without groove notation is as follows:

(a) MPO FAC123A2 LAC (b) MPO FAC123B1 LAC

BLT

(a) MPO FAC163A1 (b) MPO FAC163A2

Hope this is useful (?!)

Finally, a couple of other things I noticed too.

World In Motion Advanced DJ 12" (WFACX293)

Although the labels state that the tracks are "World In Motion" and "The B Side", they aren't. It actually contains the "No Alla Violenza" and "Carabinieri" mixes. This is also mentioned on the promo sheet which came with the 12" which makes it quite clear that the mixes on the record are not the ones mentioned on the labels.

Blue Monday BIZZ magazine flexi

This one track flexi contains an edit of the song which appears to be based around the DJ mix. It certainly isn't the standard BM88 7" edit. I haven't got around to timing it or anything though, so I can't offer a time for the track. I don't think this edit is available elsewhere but I could be wrong. Does anyone know?

Ok, going from the top of my head here... (i.e., take it with a grain of salt)

Originally posted by death of art Right, here's some additional stuff:Blue Monday

On the copy without notation, the run off groove contains:

(a) FAC-73-A1* TOWNHOUSE MAX (b) FAC-73-B1* MAX

I'm pretty sure that Townhouse is one of the UK pressing-plants. A1/B1 refers to the first pressing, at least the first pressing from some master-plate. The * afterwards may indicate a reissue, i.e., the first pressing of the reissue... I'm not sure what the MAX stands for.

Embossed:

Groove notation

(a) FAC93A1 GIGI Timtom-cbs (b) FAC93B1 GIGI NOT THE WAY I WOULD'VE DONE IT!

[snip, snip]

Non-embossed:

Groove notation:

(a) Mastered by SNB FAC93AII (b) Mastered by SNB FAC93BII

I don't know what Timtom-cbs nor SNB would refer to - probably the pressing-plant. cbs could be a reference to CBS, in that case it is probably an Australian release.

TPK

The copy without groove notation is as follows:

(a) MPO FAC123A2 LAC (b) MPO FAC123B1 LAC

BLT

(a) MPO FAC163A1 (b) MPO FAC163A2

If memory serves me right, MPO may be a plant in France. If that's the case, it creates a very interesting scenario... Is it the regular tracklisting for BLT?

World In Motion Advanced DJ 12" (WFACX293)

Although the labels state that the tracks are "World In Motion" and "The B Side", they aren't. It actually contains the "No Alla Violenza" and "Carabinieri" mixes. This is also mentioned on the promo sheet which came with the 12" which makes it quite clear that the mixes on the record are not the ones mentioned on the labels.

Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the WiM releases...

The information is duly noted. Though I'm skeptic as to the releases being UK releases.

/TLV

Originally posted by TLV Ok, going from the top of my head here... (i.e., take it with a grain of salt)> Originally posted by death of art> Right, here's some additional stuff:> > Blue Monday

On the copy without notation, the run off groove contains:

(a) FAC-73-A1* TOWNHOUSE MAX (b) FAC-73-B1* MAX

I'm pretty sure that Townhouse is one of the UK pressing-plants. A1/B1 refers to the first pressing, at least the first pressing from some master-plate. The * afterwards may indicate a reissue, i.e., the first pressing of the reissue... I'm not sure what the MAX stands for.

Embossed:

Groove notation

(a) FAC93A1 GIGI Timtom-cbs (b) FAC93B1 GIGI NOT THE WAY I WOULD'VE DONE IT!

[snip, snip]

Non-embossed:

Groove notation:

(a) Mastered by SNB FAC93AII (b) Mastered by SNB FAC93BII

I don't know what Timtom-cbs nor SNB would refer to - probably the pressing-plant. cbs could be a reference to CBS, in that case it is probably an Australian release.

TPK

The copy without groove notation is as follows:

(a) MPO FAC123A2 LAC (b) MPO FAC123B1 LAC

BLT

(a) MPO FAC163A1 (b) MPO FAC163A2

If memory serves me right, MPO may be a plant in France. If that's the case, it creates a very interesting scenario... Is it the regular tracklisting for BLT?

World In Motion Advanced DJ 12" (WFACX293)

Although the labels state that the tracks are "World In Motion" and "The B Side", they aren't. It actually contains the "No Alla Violenza" and "Carabinieri" mixes. This is also mentioned on the promo sheet which came with the 12" which makes it quite clear that the mixes on the record are not the ones mentioned on the labels.

Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the WiM releases...

The information is duly noted. Though I'm skeptic as to the releases being UK releases.

/TLV

Cheers. In response:

Blue Monday

It would make sense for the * to represent a reissue. As is well known Factory kept almost all of the NO 12" available until the label's demise in 1992, much as Mute and 4AD still do today with much of their catalogue. The BM 12" was bought new in 1989 at a time when I used to go to HMV in Birmingham and choose the next single to get, 'cos they had them all pretty much.

Confusion

The "cbs" of Timtom is fairly indistinct and the first two letters run together, so it could even be "dos" or something else, so I wouldn't get too excited about a possible CBS connection. This is the embossed sleeve version, so was one of the first Factory pressings of the single. I think therefore that it's unlikely to be a non-UK issue, but could be wrong. Perhaps we could cross-check with someone else with the embossed version? Anyone help?

BLT

This was bought new in 1989 in WHSmith (a large stationers/book chain) in Truro in Cornwall. Apart from the lack of groove notation it is in every respect a UK issue. I don't know where Factory had their records pressed but even if it was in France for example this is a UK issue to my mind - was there a French issue of this single? Again Factory kept this single available in its UK pressing long after its chart run, etc. WHSmith are unlikely to have gone looking for overseas issues to sell as domestic releases, they're not really that kind of shop - they stocked popular chart records, not imports and rarities, even in the 80s when their record department was better than it is now. I suspect rather that later pressings manufactured to keep the record available simply didn't have the groove notation.

Well, it certainly gets very complicated doesn't it? Let me have any further thoughts on any of this. Anyone else want to join in the fun?

Originally posted by death of art > Originally posted by TLV> Ok, going from the top of my head here... (i.e., take it with a grain of salt)> > > > > Originally posted by death of art> > Right, here's some additional stuff:> > > > Blue Monday>

On the copy without notation, the run off groove contains:

(a) FAC-73-A1* TOWNHOUSE MAX (b) FAC-73-B1* MAX

I'm pretty sure that Townhouse is one of the UK pressing-plants. A1/B1 refers to the first pressing, at least the first pressing from some master-plate. The * afterwards may indicate a reissue, i.e., the first pressing of the reissue... I'm not sure what the MAX stands for.

Embossed:

Groove notation

(a) FAC93A1 GIGI Timtom-cbs (b) FAC93B1 GIGI NOT THE WAY I WOULD'VE DONE IT!

[snip, snip]

Non-embossed:

Groove notation:

(a) Mastered by SNB FAC93AII (b) Mastered by SNB FAC93BII

I don't know what Timtom-cbs nor SNB would refer to - probably the pressing-plant. cbs could be a reference to CBS, in that case it is probably an Australian release.

TPK

The copy without groove notation is as follows:

(a) MPO FAC123A2 LAC (b) MPO FAC123B1 LAC

BLT

(a) MPO FAC163A1 (b) MPO FAC163A2

If memory serves me right, MPO may be a plant in France. If that's the case, it creates a very interesting scenario... Is it the regular tracklisting for BLT?

World In Motion Advanced DJ 12" (WFACX293)

Although the labels state that the tracks are "World In Motion" and "The B Side", they aren't. It actually contains the "No Alla Violenza" and "Carabinieri" mixes. This is also mentioned on the promo sheet which came with the 12" which makes it quite clear that the mixes on the record are not the ones mentioned on the labels.

Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the WiM releases...

The information is duly noted. Though I'm skeptic as to the releases being UK releases.

/TLV

Cheers. In response:

Blue Monday

It would make sense for the * to represent a reissue. As is well known Factory kept almost all of the NO 12" available until the label's demise in 1992, much as Mute and 4AD still do today with much of their catalogue. The BM 12" was bought new in 1989 at a time when I used to go to HMV in Birmingham and choose the next single to get, 'cos they had them all pretty much.

Confusion

The "cbs" of Timtom is fairly indistinct and the first two letters run together, so it could even be "dos" or something else, so I wouldn't get too excited about a possible CBS connection. This is the embossed sleeve version, so was one of the first Factory pressings of the single. I think therefore that it's unlikely to be a non-UK issue, but could be wrong. Perhaps we could cross-check with someone else with the embossed version? Anyone help?

BLT

This was bought new in 1989 in WHSmith (a large stationers/book chain) in Truro in Cornwall. Apart from the lack of groove notation it is in every respect a UK issue. I don't know where Factory had their records pressed but even if it was in France for example this is a UK issue to my mind - was there a French issue of this single? Again Factory kept this single available in its UK pressing long after its chart run, etc. WHSmith are unlikely to have gone looking for overseas issues to sell as domestic releases, they're not really that kind of shop - they stocked popular chart records, not imports and rarities, even in the 80s when their record department was better than it is now. I suspect rather that later pressings manufactured to keep the record available simply didn't have the groove notation.

Well, it certainly gets very complicated doesn't it? Let me have any further thoughts on any of this. Anyone else want to join in the fun?

My embossed one definitely says "TOMTOM-cbs" on the A-side and "Not the way I woud've done it" on the B-side.

Cheers Slippy. Was yours bought new at the time of release or later? I'm not convinced this is anything than a UK issue but I am quite happy to be persuaded otherwise...

Not tim e

?