Is Barney actually any good?

Barney is New Order. NO Barney no New Order simple isn't it. Aren't we all NO fans q e d he is brilliant. Ok this may be not quite true as the other 3 also make significant contributions. For those who don't like his live performances, that's the way it is get used to it, it's all part of the unique charm of a NO live performance.

If you want perfection don't see them live, listen to theier live performances or buy their DVDs. If you want perfection go see the Cure and stop complaining here.

Originally posted by Rocket Mick I am very shy really but have to put a BIG front whenever i meet new people.

Should we call you Jordan really then Mick ?

Originally posted by Low-Life > Originally posted by Rocket Mick> I am very shy really but have to put a BIG front whenever i meet new people.

Should we call you Jordan really then Mick ?

Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch If you want perfection go see the Cure

Quite.

If Barney is no good then why do NO still exist I would guess that 99% of us will pay to go and see NO -OK they are not always perfect but isn't that what live music and all the bootlegs we buy or exchange is all about?:D

Without Barney, no NO.

Quite right -he did keep the band going, so why knock him for the fact that he can't be Ian??

I didn't read many of the replies...sometimes they get a little abstract. ( Don't look at me like that, we all babble) I think the fact of the matter is, Sumner wrote better stuff when he was trying to be as much UNLIKE "Joy Division" as possible. Also I'm sure he abused a substance or two. Also, the subject matter was about overcomming and often succumbing to the oddities and dangers in life.

Nowadays it seems asthough Sumner is sitting in his golf shirt and khakis writing about good times and trying to incorperate "Joy Division" into the "New Order" spectrum. Joy Division (which was happily being enjoyed in its haunting semi-obscurity) and New Order seems like a good ol' bring the kids celebration of love life and partying with our clothes on. BORING.

Yo Sumner! Leave JD alone in the darkness before you give it sunspots and to fans...somebody please buy that man at least a caffinated beverage to get started. I saw a reference to Gillian being on "tea" duty. I won't rant about tea other than it 'ad better be "herbal" tea if you catch my drift.

JD and NO rule still.

Have you ever been a victim in a violent fight When you know it's not true and you know it's not right Got not one ounce or inch of control You got lust for blood runnin' in your soul You know if every person upon this earth Became the image of the mother in a violent birth We could sow the seed, to stop this sand And heal this brutal beat-up land

If there's a place to be why don't you come with me Listen to your father, listen to your brother Take every chance that comes, maybe you'll find someone We don't need to argue, we just need each other

There's a mirror on the table, if you feel you could use it Don't be ashamed, go ahead just do it Protect your cranium, let it explode Put your faith in the mother lode Now if all this seems to be eccentric Be aware be sure I meant it The tunnel of love has got no end I'm well received, but I don't send

having said what i did in my last post, i'd like to add that there's no one else i'd rather listen to than New Order and Bernard Sumner. New Order are an integral part of every day of my life and that would not be true if not for Bernard Sumner.

DON!

the better half keeps getting better...i'm a lucky man. we miss you an shuglet (if you can believe that) and look forward to another visit from you guys.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid having said what i did in my last post, i'd like to add that there's no one else i'd rather listen to than New Order and Bernard Sumner. New Order are an integral part of every day of my life and that would not be true if not for Bernard Sumner.

Could not have said it any better BLT. That about sums it up for me!!

As for the producing, let's not forget all the other stuff out there under the Bemusic moniker...esp the SECTION 25 stuff...me thinks he did a great job there!! Hell, even Ian produced some SECTION 25...so does that make them production hoars?

Bit confused now...do I even want to see what they've become now ? Let's say, theoretically, they play somewhere in the summer/ autumn, it'll surely be far from me and cost me an awful lot of money/ effort. Will what I'll see simply ruin my idea of New Order ? Am I too late ?

Come on guys, they been at it since since 1977. This is longer than most bands. Judging by the past few tours since they reformed, Barney seems to be enjoying himself live. And I will be shouting "NEW ORDER NEW ORDER NEW ORDER" and singing along with Blue Monday when they play it. Even Rock the Shack. 1984 was 20 years ago. Clock aint going backwards but I bet Barney knows when to give it up.

Originally posted by Julijana Zitnjak Bit confused now...do I even want to see what they've become now ? Let's say, theoretically, they play somewhere in the summer/ autumn, it'll surely be far from me and cost me an awful lot of money/ effort. Will what I'll see simply ruin my idea of New Order ? Am I too late ?

It's always worth it, it is a magical experience never to be forgotten, even these days. Some of us just get a bit blase about it all at times, having been used to different sets every night and smaller venues. The buzz you get when they come on stage is still as good as ever.

Barney did this and Barney did that. I thought the question was specifically present-tense. I don't think the new material is as relevant or cutting edge as it was even with Republic.

New Order has gone from Eerie, Haunting, and creative to formulatic and 'plucky'.

Originally posted by Low-Life Any good at what ?As a singer, his voice has improved with age and experience. Probably most important was the discovery that they could write songs in keys that suited his voice, rather than sticking to keys that didn't use black notes as they had with JD and early NO.As a lyricist, Barney is capable of flashes of brilliant insight and simple yet effective structure. He is also capable of absolute garbage. The quality control button sometimes gets stuck ! Let's just be grateful that the live lyrics don't get onto the record, as your lovely Savile sleeves would suffer from Tipper Gore's little stickers.As a guitarist, he's probably a lot more competent than he ever allows himself to seem - all the songs are structured in a way that affords him minimal live work. Some of the JD stuff showed a theoretical understanding (the blues E scale in NDF came straight from a book), but there has been little straying from the basic use of barre chords.As a complete songwriter, he is one of the most innovative and unheralded writers of the last 25 years. Never forget that Barney is the melody man, the provider of most of your favourite tunes. Hooky and Steve have their own roles in the creation of a New Order/Joy Division song, in terms of format, patterns etc, but Barney has been the main tune writer. Some of the stuff is entirely his own work - Temptation for example. Take a look at some of the complicated arrangements on Electronic to hear what he can do - the majority of that album was written by Barney as solo during 1989 before hooking up with Johnny Marr.In a nutshell, he is a genius songwriter and producer, with a real talent for sound creation and development.

Amen to that! You've hit the nail right on the head.

Why the f**k are we debating this? What's the reason we are all on this site?

Originally posted by Justin Lazic Why the f**k are we debating this? What's the reason we are all on this site?

To complete the live recording collection. You ?

I still cant get over this commonly held belief that Bernard is a genius. Not that I neccessarily disagree with it. I just wonder where the hell did this genius come from.

A New Order website that is slating Barney!!!! Do some of you dickheads buy the records/cd's etc just to listen to pick fault with Barney as what other reason can you give. The bloke is a legend and if you don't like him fuck off somewhere else you bunch of twats.

Just had a pint of Boddingtons to calm me down, but do you see my point, how can you be a New Order fan and slate Barney, its like saying The Beatles would have been even better if John Lennon was'nt involved!!

Originally posted by Low-Life > Originally posted by Justin Lazic> Why the f**k are we debating this? What's the reason we are all on this site?

To complete the live recording collection. You ?

If it wasn't for Bernard's musical skills we wouldn't have a live recording collection would we? So I think we're mostly all here for the same reason except those who, so accurately outlined by Mr. Gradi, should grow eyes and realize that neworderonline.com comprises over 2500 registered fans of the band and he who pushes ideas about slagging one of them off makes himself look like a lost f**kwit.

To the below poster, would you prefair it if NO were considered "musical greats of the last century" like pink floyd or some heavy, serious band? NO are a pop band, more than that, they are a great pop band // All of these things make New Order into a sideshow Vegas act instead of the respected band they should be after all these years // Its nice to see barney jumping about and enjoying himself. It makes me want to jump about and enjoy myself. Id hate to see NO regress up their own arses, take themselves so serious that they wont ssay c**t on stage, and top q or uncut's"top bands of the 20th century". Just cause he doesnt act like a genius doesnt mean he hasnt cowritten some of the best songs ever.