New Order and Nirvana Connection

Hey Everyone,

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I picked up the Kurt Cobain book, "Notes"...It is basically a collection of his scribblings from his notebook/journal pre-nirvana and during their success.

Anyway, I noticed that Kurt Cobain mentioned that he was happy that their video they had just filmed had a "violet hue/color, like the New Order video"...I found that interesting and was trying to think of which video he was referring to???

Anyone know? ...Actually, I don't even know what Nirvana video he was writing about...The Cobain journals are extremely difficult to read, because his ideas jump all over the place.

He was just a junkie, could have meant anything

an extremely OVERATED JUNKIE. i would gladly piss on his grave...

as for your actual question...i think he must have been in a daze watching MTV Europe because none of their videos have a Hue or Tint to them that i can remember...

Was he maybe talking about the crap brown tint to the Smells Like Radio Airplay video?

You guys shouldn't be putting down one of the most influencial artists of our time!!! I liked him...

The "Pissed on the grave" comment was a little harsh, jessh!

I am pretty sure I have heard Barney give accolades to the band as well...

Give them credit!

credit for what? they sounded shit then and they still sound shit today. his lyrics are awful even though tortured suburban white kids think he's a poet.

come as you are has got a great easy to play bass riff

and you think Barney's lyrics are of "poet" status...

Kurt C....Don't diss the man...he was a genius and whether suburban kids like him or not...he is one of the greatest ever...He ranks right up there with Ian!!!

I hate nirvana.

Originally posted by Rob Revilo and you think Barney's lyrics are of "poet" status...Kurt C....Don't diss the man...he was a genius and whether suburban kids like him or not...he is one of the greatest ever...He ranks right up there with Ian!!!

you've obviously not had the pleasure to read one of my Rants on Bernard Sumner's Lyrical (in)abilities. no problem, you're deaf and blind...a killer one two punch! (only joking)

Cobain is NOT one of the greatest ever. You're just of a certain age and you believed all the hype that surrounded Nirvana. How many Nirvana T's did you buy at the Mall? Quote me some lyrics from Cobain that rank him with Ian? The only similarities i see is that they were both CHICKEN SHIT bastards who decided to end their lives too soon (well Ian's death was too soon, Cobain should have been aborted!)

Easy tiger(s). Lots of parallels between Nirvana and Joy Division, apart from the obvious one.

All I'll say is that let us thank whoever we believe in up there that MTV wasn't around when Ian Curtis died, as the hype would have been just stupid. It was bad enough as it was with just Radio 1 and the NME and Sounds. Both IC and KB were very influential in shaping what was to follow - and with IC the rest of the band carried on breaking ground. Grohl and Novotel Hotel have proved where the talent lay in Nirvana.....

Originally posted by Rob Revilo and you think Barney's lyrics are of "poet" status...Kurt C....Don't diss the man...he was a genius and whether suburban kids like him or not...he is one of the greatest ever...He ranks right up there with Ian!!!

I remember a poster of 24HPP with the actor that played Ian that said "Genius? Twat?". The difference is that for Ian the answer everybody knows. If it was for Cobain the answer would be the other...

"Grohl and Novotel Hotel have proved where the talent lay in Nirvana..... "

yes, with David Geffen! good point. take three talentless punks and make millions off of angst ridden suburban kids. a formula for success.

Originally posted by Low-Life Grohl and Novotel Hotel have proved where the talent lay in Nirvana.....

What do you mean? I really can't tell the answer.

Shellshock has a blue tinit.

well i for one dont think that kurt was or is one of the greatest but i do think the piss on his grave comment is a bit whack. nirvana did some good tunes,and if the guy was interested in new order then at least it showed he had good taste in music if not in women ie courtney hate.

I, like several of you, will say Cobain was overrated. The band wasn't that good live and the third member, Kris Novocelic (sp?) pretty much has evaporated. They wrote fairly simple songs, instrumentation wise, and Cobain's lyrics were nothing special. Over three albums, their sound changed less than New Order's. New Order developed far more than they did: they made their own sound after JD, Barney's vocals improved, they've made albums with a dancier feel and others with more guitars. However, since I grew up in the early '90s in the US and was under the influence of "grunge" culture until I was about 14, I chose Smashing Pumpkins over Nirvana. Not only did Billy Corgan know more than four chords, but he and Jimmy Chamberlin actually did solos! And, over 3 albums, their sound actually changed. I am biased, I will admit, and I think Cobain was severely overrated. But, I will continue to be biased, for I think SP should have been given more of the attention that Nirvana received in the early '90s. After hearing Smells Like Teen Spirit on the radio a month ago, I can say Nirvana sounds dated. New Order does sound dated, but that's inevitable, when they rely on electronic equiptment of the period. But, Siamese Dream, and even Gish, still holds up after 10 years. What more do I need to say? I'm done.

When grundge was coming out I slowed down on my music purchases. I remember friends talking about Nirvana and Pearl Jam before their break out albums came out. PJ never really did anything for me. SLTS was a rocking bastard and I did enjoy hearing it and the other Nirvana singles whenever they were played on the radio. YET I was not motivated to purchase the album. The unplugged album perked my interest too but, alas, no purchase.

So he marries a drug fiend and kills himself leaving a young child behind.

Nirvana was ok but overhyped. KC not a genius rather a disturbed soul. This week's flavor. Guess grunge brought alternative into the mainstream and killed it.

chris novaselics band sweet 75 was alright, i saw them with L7, i think he's into poltics now in Washington state, foo fighters fucking suck, and nirvana were alright, dont hate them but dont really love them either. i agree that nirvana was overrated. i agree with the blue eyed boy that the smashing pumkins were the best of the 90's. i grew up with that grunge culture as well and did everything possible to avoid it but ended up liking some bands anyways. from that "grunge" era the best bands were soundgarden and alice in chains. both were more talented and better song writers than nirvana.

just realized this is the new order related forum. so new order kicks foo fighers ass and joy divsion kicks nirvanas ass :)

maybe Kurt was talking about Spooky

I would piss on Elvis Presley's grave

As for the whole KC versus IC or whatever, I don't buy into the hype that Kurt was "a genius", I think a lot of Nirvana is recycled punk with a little heavy metal thrown in and not terribly appealing, and I think Dave Grohl's doing much better for himself with the Foos. That said, however, I like Nirvana because they did spearhead the grunge movement which (while not hugely innovative) did stem the tide of overproduced shit coming out of the major labels. And the first five or six songs on "Nevermind" are some of the finest statements of teenage angst to be produced thus far. But at the time I liked Weezer better, and quite frankly I still prefer them to any of the other "grunge acts" (and let's not forget Green Day, fantastic in their day)

Random thoughts:

I don't think it matters if a song is simple; complexity isn't what makes music great.

The funniest thing about grunge is about how it was all invented-- not even as hype to sell bands, but as a prank on a journalist that took on a life of its own.

I was in college when Cobain died. I remember someone commenting in class that it was "the end of the nineties." In 1993.

Finally, What color were Kurt Cobain's eyes? Blew...one blew this way, the other blew that way.

another silly joke about his suicide that isnt funny but i remember from high school what do kurt cobain and trent reznor have in common? head like a hole (dumb joke but i swear i heard it everywhere in school)

reckon the video was probably 'Regret', nice purpley hues in the hotel rooms which does look similar to one of the nirvana vids... 'come as you are' i think. nirvana didn't travel as far as JD soundwise but there was definitely something special going on and wasted talent is always gutting. didn't hooky say in the NME once that kurt had the best voice of his generation.

also courtney lost her virginity listening to Closer, or was that when she shagged Julian Cope??

anyway, has anyone ever commented on the similar record sleevs of the MSPs Design For Life & Ceremony 7" released at similar moments in each bands lives...

Probably gonna get a good text slapping for this but a good connection is after their frontmen both took their lives both bands remaining members made better music

Nirvana - Foo Fighters Joy Division - New Order

Nirvana made one great album; Nevermind. The rest were dull I thought. Foo Fighters are a good 'tunes' band, but their albums are shite as a whole. I'm sure their fans would say the same about JD/NO. It's a question of taste. Kurt Cobain certainly influenced alot of songwriters, as did Ian Curtis. Both bands sparked changes in music. There is no question about that. Curtis was far superior in all departments however.

Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green Probably gonna get a good text slapping for this but a good connection is after their frontmen both took their lives both bands remaining members made better musicNirvana - Foo FightersJoy Division - New Order

Krist Novoselic didn't make better music afterwards; all he did was to become fat, bald, and bitter about Courtney Love.

Nirvana at Reading '92 was one of the best 3 gigs I've ever seen. Anyone who says that Kurt had no talent should try washing their ears out a bit more often...

i haven't listened to nirvana in years, but i've always liked them. i saw them for the first time in 1991, opening for dinosaur jr., in a club with about 200-300 other people. i had never heard of them before and they were great. lots of energy and the crowd were really up for it. nevermind came out a few months later....

anyway, the whole 'kurt is god' thing makes me cringe, but so does putting ian curtis on a pedestal. joy division were a better band, but so what? nirvana had some excellent tunes and i enjoyed them when they were around.

as for purchasing nirvana t-shirts in a mall--i've never done that myself, but joy division t-shirts on the other hand....

I liked Nirvana back in the day (when they were still in operation), but never understood the hype. As someone living within a certain proximity to the whole "Seattle scene," it all seemed damn silly. (See that decent documentary "Hype" for evidence of just how silly.) Anyway, I was never obsessed with them or anything (much more of a Pearl Jam man, myself), but they were fun to listen to. Then years went by and you can only hear the same stupid, simple little songs with stupid, simple lyrics so many times without wanting to kick something very, very hard. Now I can barely stand them, though my dad seems to have acquired a taste for 'em. Anyone who worships or even puts Cobain in the same league as Ian Curtis should seriously pull their head out.

I don't worship either of them, nor do they belong on pedestals but I'd put Kurt Cobain in the same league as Ian Curtis - and I've actually seen both of them. Nirvana's songs may be simple but then again so are Joy Division's and New order's and therein lies the beauty of them.

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green> Probably gonna get a good text slapping for this but a good connection is after their frontmen both took their lives both bands remaining members made better music> > Nirvana - Foo Fighters> Joy Division - New Order

Krist Novoselic didn't make better music.... (just became) bitter about Courtney Love.

One in a long, long, line.

I've heard a lot worse than Nirvana, though I didn't ever buy their records, but I didn't blanch when their music was played at parties, though the knucklehead attitude of some of their 'fans', which apparently bothered Kurt alot, was offputting indeed.

What I like most was the Unplugged thing when he brought the Meat Puppets up to share a televised moment; remembering the hardcore days of 82-84 and having (some) drunken debates about whether or not the Kirkwood brothers brains were fried from either the Arizona sun or drugs made me laugh out loud, never thought I'd ever see 'em on tv that's for sure.

yeah...you might be right...Weirdo...once I watched it..it does have that "violet/blue" hue to it.

No matter what you people think...Nirvana spawned a new movement in music; whether you liked it or not, the band allowed other bands to come out of their shell and succeed!

Come on guys...!!! It got all that Hairband/glam band rubbish off the mtv airwaves!! You have to thank them for getting the Motley Crues, Poisons, Trixters, Warrants, Extremes, and others off the television!!! Anything was better than that crap!!

Black Hole Tears Apart Star

Courtney Love Shows Up For Court

Coincidence?

Nah, JD didn't start new wave any more than the Stiff Kittens started punk.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino come as you are has got a great easy to play bass riff

Come as you are rips the bassline from Killing Jokes '80's'

Cobain wrote some great songs, some lame ones too. He didn't just write lyrics like Curtis did.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis In fairness, Nirvana and Joy Division were entirely different animals.Joy Division in 1980 were little more than a cult band, not really known beyond their own country. Nirvana, on the other hand, were an international phenomenom embraced the world over. We'd be talking about Cobain whether he was still alive today, whereas with Curtis a lot of people probably took note - I'm as guilty as anyone - simply because he took his own life. It was a fantastic marketing ploy, though possibly a tad extreme.

Didn't Wilson once make a comment along the lines of Curtis' death being the best thing to happen to factory, though he later claimed it was taken out of context.Cobains'death was probably the best thing to happen to Nirvana as they'd already slipped into self indulgent wank mode.

Originally posted by The Paradise Man Curtis was far superior in all departments however.

I think KC was a better guitarist;)

I did like and continue to like Nirvana and I think in retrospect they, like Joy Division, suffer from the same misconception. Namely, that they, their music and fans were/are depressing and/or depressed. Now obviously both singers demises indicate a certain amount of depression, the music while heavy and serious makes me feel pretty alive (moreso in the case of JD). They were a great live band as well.

Also, on a personal level, it was kind of cool to see a band so much in the public eye (e.g. interviews w/ the big boys, award shows, etc.) that had alot of the same musical tastes/influences that I did at the time.

Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by Al Jarvis In fairness, Nirvana and Joy Division were entirely different animals.Joy Division in 1980 were little more than a cult band, not really known beyond their own country. Nirvana, on the other hand, were an international phenomenom embraced the world over. We'd be talking about Cobain whether he was still alive today, whereas with Curtis a lot of people probably took note - I'm as guilty as anyone - simply because he took his own life. It was a fantastic marketing ploy, though possibly a tad extreme.

Didn't Wilson once make a comment along the lines of Curtis' death being the best thing to happen to factory, though he later claimed it was taken out of context.Cobains'death was probably the best thing to happen to Nirvana as they'd already slipped into self indulgent wank mode.

There's a section in Mick Middles' book dealing with that, can't remember the name of the interviewer who wrote that but Wilson always said he never said it (and for once, considering the tabloid nature of a lot of British news, I believe him )

I think Kurt's death effectively killed grunge (which might not have been such a bad thing considering all the bandwagon-jumping groups coming out then), and alternative rock devolved into "rage metal" or "rap metal" or whatever you wanna call that shit. With Ian, taking into account the fact that I wasn't even a year old when this happened, there wasn't necessarily a "Punk is dead" vibe (probably because the Clash and similar artists were still around). It would be safe to say that in their time, JD had nowhere near the massive exposure or fame as Nirvana. There was no MTV to constantly play "LWTUA" all day or unplugged specials or any of that, and JD had yet to tour the States.

I always felt sorry for Kurt because he truly was a victim of his fame. A lazy self-serving victim, to be sure, but a victim nonetheless

If i remember rightly it was an interview TW (is it his bday today ?? if so enjoy it Tone) did in The Face, who retracted the comment 20 odd years later

Originally posted by The Haçienda must be (re)Built If i remember rightly it was an interview TW (is it his bday today ?? if so enjoy it Tone) did in The Face, who retracted the comment 20 odd years later

It was indeed in The Face magazine in an article by Nick Kent about the Happy Mondays. Wilson denied ever making the comment and The Face admitted as much 5 years later after which time it was too late to sue them for libel. As for Nick Kent I think Jah Wobble and Sid Vicious had the right idea back at the 100 Club all those years ago...

Originally posted by Philip Collins As for Nick Kent I think Jah Wobble and Sid Vicious had the right idea back at the 100 Club all those years ago...

Ha! Smash!