Why I'm almost certain "60 mph" will fail to make the UK Top 20.

As we all know, "6O mph" has been postponed from its original release date of October 22, to firstly, November 12th and, now, November 19th. (Curiously enough, the second Charlatans single off their new "Wonderland" LP has suffered exactly the same fate...) I wonder why it has been put back yet again? Is their record company London playing silly buggers to stop New Order having hits or something? Cos that's the impression I've been getting ever since the Get Ready débacle when the LP was deprived of its crucial first week Vinyl sales and limped in at #6 in the charts. I mean, look at it this way: when New Order made their welcome appearance on "Later With Jools Holland" that would have slotted in nicely with the single's release that following Monday - punters could then, fresh from having seen them on telly that weekend, perhaps be sufficiently intrigued enough to go out and purchase said single, thus maybe ensuring a healthy first week sales, enough to at least push the single into the top 20. As it is, three weeks later, it's still ONE week off being finally released. By which time, who's still bothered anymore? Certainly not every New Order fan across the land. Why should they? Consider these facts: Whenevr New Order release singles off their albums, very rarely have they performed very well in the charts. The first time this happened was in 1985 when "Low Life" gave us "The Perfect Kiss" and "SubCulture" - both of which did dismally in the chart, TPK debuting at #46 S-C scraping in at #74 (though it did do the impossible and CLIMB - yep, you heard right - climb, to #63 the following week). When the mighty "Bizarre Love Triangle" was released off "Brotherhood" in Oct/Nov 1986 (a month after the parent LP came out), it could only manage #56 before diving out. Now if that came out BEFORE the LP as a trailer, it definitely would have done better. 1989's "Technique" spawned THREE official singles - the first "Fine Time" very nearly made the Top Ten (#11)a couple of months earlier. Simply because it came out BEFORE the album. The second single "Round & Round" when released a month or so after Technique, could only manage #21. When "Run" followed under a new mix and title ("Run 2") a few months later, it soared to #49. And then came "Republic", New Order's biggest-selling studio album ever. "Regret" trailed the LP by a couple of weeks, peaking at #4. Subsequent releases ("Ruined..."/ "Spooky") after the LP could only scrape the top 30 (except "World" which, alone amongst NO tracks released as singles AFTER the LP was out, climbed as high as the top 20 - it made #13). So now we have "Crystal" trailing "Get Ready" and it debuted at #8 - pretty good going then. But now, every New Order fan has probably got the songs on Get Ready, so who's going to rush out and make "60 mph" a top 20 hit?
Who exactly? Not many, I'll bet - unless you all prove me wrong and go out on the 19th and snap up all formats thrice over. (I don't think so!)

The point I'm making is, New Order fans, curiously enough, do not rush out in the same numbers to buy their heroes singles off the LPs in the first week - mainly because the LP already has the tracks on them. That is, UNLESS the single PRECEDES the LP, in which case a pretty good chart position is ensured. The only band similar to New Order whose fanbase DO all buy every single release in equal numbers is Depeche Mode (sorry Muffy), who have now had no less than 36 top 30 hits in the UK - a staggering achievement considering the consistency with which all their records have sold.

So why are New Order fans such an awkward bunch when it comes to (not) rushing out to buy their new releases the week they first appear in the shops ?

Let's have some of your theories.

(oh, another prediction: what's the reckoning that the new Charlatans single will chart much higher than the New Order one come the end of the week beginning 19th Nov. My safe money is on Charlatans: at least top 20; New Order : mid 30's at best. Outside top 40 at worst.)

Charts mean absolutely Nothing. Who gives a Fuck where anything charts? If an undeniable Classic such as BLT didn't break the top 40, how much emphasis should we put on a chart that doesn't reflect how good a song is?

In full agreement with you - Charts DO mean JACK SHIT. I've honestly never bothered with who's in the charts for the past 10 years. I mean, apart from New Order, who are GOD, frankly, I don't bother about chart positions. But what I'm getting at is, being NO-obsessed like so many of us here are, surely it would be nice to see the Order jostling for space amongst al the shower of shite that frequently takes up permanent residence in the upper reaches of the Hot 100. No-one likes to see New Order flop. They are one of the best bands we got, so why should their records show so dismally? I know we can't change the world or make every plain boring conservative joe buy their records, but, like I said, it would be gratifying to see them going high in the charts - just cos it gives us some degree of satisfaction to see that our heroes can occasionally do well in the face of such blatant overriding mediocre naffness and be up there kicking all the young pretender's asses for six.....

Originally posted by Shug To the Fountain of Knowledge (an upgraded trainspotter)Good argument again, although I have to point out that "RUN2" was only a Limited Edition 20,000 release.

Yeah, I know it was, but even if 20,000 NO fans had rushed out and bought it, knowing full well it was a limited edition, it would have theoretically still charted somewhere in the mid-to-low 20's wouldn't it? But it didn't, so what I said about NO fans not bothering with singles lifted OFF albums still holds true.

Latest prediction for "60mph" chart position on 25/11/01 is as follows: Best: #24, Worst #49.

This is post # 723

Good point Matin. It would be nice to see them have a hit. I think the Chemical Brothers collabortion will be successful (hopefully). I would hate for New Order to get sucked in like REM did when they received tons of mainstream attention.

Originally posted by brian geoghagan Good point Matin. It would be nice to see them have a hit. I think the Chemical Brothers collabortion will be successful (hopefully). I would hate for New Order to get sucked in like REM did when they received tons of mainstream attention.

I suppose the Chemical Brothers are the only hope we have left of New Order getting another top ten hit from the Get Ready stable. But then, once again, it could still go pear-shaped, seeing as the last Chemical Brothers hit "It Began In Africa" entered at #8 and dropped out of the top 50 with the same speed that "Crystal" did.. God. I'm such a fucking pessimist aren't I?

How could you Shug?? Blow my cover like that?

Any more defamations of character and my solicitors will be knocking on yer door buddy! And the bailiffs!! Don't mess with Martin. Do you hear?!! :evil:

after True Faith was a hit a saw an advert for TBTHOG in a paper which said at the bottom "Paid for by Pinnacle as NO are too tight too spend any cash on promoting records" hence NO single do shit in the charts

"charts mean nothing" ???

well, maybe not to New Order themselves, but definitely to the record company! I promise that, if 60mph does not enter the charts, there won't be any third single release off Get Ready :(

A lot of people listen to the charts and if 60mph fails to chart new order are missing out on sales. Sales = money and also interest / new fans. If they released say 3 singles off GR and (apart from crystal) they do shite, plus the relatively poor sales of GR will they bother to do any more albums? They might think even the loyal fan base has deserted them, which in the past has been enough to push singles into the top 20.

Originally posted by Marco Pleil "charts mean nothing" ???well, maybe not to New Order themselves, but definitely to the record company! I promise that, if 60mph does not enter the charts, there won't be any third single release off Get Ready :(

Well, that might happen in Germany (which is how I like it really - stop milking albums for singles) if "60 mph" flops, but here in UK I bet they've already got two more potential singles lined up for after this one: I reckon - "Turn My Way" and "Someone Like You" - both which are NOT singles, IMHO. Look, the Chemicals collaboration is due in the New Year, so why can't they just let THAT be the follow-up to "60 mph" and stop bringing out any further tracks from GR as singles? It reeks of compromise - this obligation to HAVE TO milk an LP dry for bloody singles. Just because they did it with Republic. There is one fundamental difference: that is, Republic was a massive-selling LP, a number 1, so four singles off it was probably pretty much the norm. Get Ready, on the other hand is a relative flop. So TWO singles off it should be the absolute max - I mean, do any of you honestly think that lots more singles lifted off this LP will help boost the albums sales - after all this time? I don't think so. The record buying public have VERY short memories these days, just don't overestimate them!!

Originally posted by The Keeper Of The Major Key A lot of people listen to the charts and if 60mph fails to chart new order are missing out on sales. Sales = money and also interest / new fans. If they released say 3 singles off GR and (apart from crystal) they do shite, plus the relatively poor sales of GR will they bother to do any more albums? They might think even the loyal fan base has deserted them, which in the past has been enough to push singles into the top 20.

My thoughts exactly, Keeper. :)

Originally posted by Nicolas LeBlanc Come on, we all know they won't release Somone Like You, they put all the remixes on the 60 Miles An Hour single.But what might happen is what happened from Republic.. releasing 60 Miles An Hour in the UK, and Someone Like You in the US....Since Crystal REMIXED did well on the chart, maybe they think Someone Like You remixes will..Who knows what to think with those guys.Turn My Way will be the hit of the album, if they finally release it.. I'm pretty sure Rock The Shack has a chance too.. but not to the typical New Order fan obviously...

Turn My Way should do OK Stateside simply because of the Billy Corgan connection, but I don't reckon on its UK chances anyway - I mean, even the Chemicals collaboration could be a "make-or-break" thing for both acts concerned, even though I was initially quite confident such a single would go top 5 no problem. Now I'm not so sure. It seems the general public do not have an appetite for New Order anymore. (Even New Order's Later With Jools Holland appearance didn't push the bloody album back into the Top 100 - speaks volumes doesn't it?) Put it this way: I'd be GOBSMACKED if "60 MPH" goes top twenty in the UK.

And if it does, by a twist of fate, I will look pretty foolish indeed......

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by The Keeper Of The Major Key> A lot of people listen to the charts and if 60mph fails to chart new order are missing out on sales. Sales = money and also interest / new fans. If they released say 3 singles off GR and (apart from crystal) they do shite, plus the relatively poor sales of GR will they bother to do any more albums? They might think even the loyal fan base has deserted them, which in the past has been enough to push singles into the top 20.

My thoughts exactly, Keeper. :)

great minds think alike.

Mid twenties I reckon for the first week. Out of the top 50 by the second. I think it will chart simply because its out on all 3 formats and theres enough diehards who will by all 3. I think Depeche were used as a barometer, and their last release, which got about as much promo as 60mph is getting, charted at 19

The chems last release wasn't particuarly commercial (more club orientated) I didn't think. IF they teamed up with Noel again it would probably go top 5

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Mid twenties I reckon for the first week. Out of the top 50 by the second. I think it will chart simply because its out on all 3 formats and theres enough diehards who will by all 3. I think Depeche were used as a barometer, and their last release, which got about as much promo as 60mph is getting, charted at 19The chems last release wasn't particuarly commercial (more club orientated) I didn't think. IF they teamed up with Noel again it would probably go top 5

I reckon we've both hit the nail on the head then: #24 or 26 it is then.
And don't let anyone else tell you any higher.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Mid twenties I reckon for the first week. Out of the top 50 by the second. I think it will chart simply because its out on all 3 formats and theres enough diehards who will by all 3. I think Depeche were used as a barometer, and their last release, which got about as much promo as 60mph is getting, charted at 19

Which just goes to show - Depeche Mode fans are all so faithfull as to keep ensuring all their singles go top twenty (28 times out of 36 over 20 years is a pretty damn impressive tally, if you ask me - something The Order have NO chance in hell of equalling). Here even the THIRD single off their (lacklustre) LP Exciter can still scrape in just like all their others. It frankly defies all odds, strangely enough. (and yep, you're right, the Mode get about as much airplay as NO - which isn't saying much is it?)

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Mid twenties I reckon for the first week. Out of the top 50 by the second. I think it will chart simply because its out on all 3 formats and theres enough diehards who will by all 3. I think Depeche were used as a barometer, and their last release, which got about as much promo as 60mph is getting, charted at 19

Which just goes to show - Depeche Mode fans are all so faithfull as to keep ensuring all their singles go top twenty (28 times out of 36 over 20 years is a pretty damn impressive tally, if you ask me - something The Order have NO chance in hell of equalling). Here even the THIRD single off their (lacklustre) LP Exciter can still scrape in just like all their others. It frankly defies all odds, strangely enough. (and yep, you're right, the Mode get about as much airplay as NO - which isn't saying much is it?)

There seems to be a lot of heated debate on this issue all of a sudden...... so it's only logical to resurrect the thread where you read it first.... harrrrrumph!

Number 29 it is then. Out of the top 60 next week (at 6000 MPH, probably)

There. What Did I tell you?

I see that a lot of you have been hotly disputing the "nature of the charts" in order to investigate the reason why this latest single is such a dud Hit-Parade-Wise. You can therefore debate on - but you won't really understand the reason unless you scroll to the top of this thread and read my analysis on EXACTLY WHY all New Order singles tend to chart the way they do: go on - backtrack your way upwards, and then you will finally understand just WHY "60MPH" has done as unremarkably as it has this week.

TAKE ANOTHER LOOK, ONLINERS....THE ANSWER IS WRITTEN UPLARGE AND AS CLEAR AS THE SUN UP THERE!!!!

I am stunned and struck by your knowledge and statistics Martin. And you know what? You are fookin right!! I was checking some dutch recordshops today...no more copies of crystal(last week there were about 4 in store), but no sign of 60 mph!!So i still haven't heard sabotage. That's why i went to one shop and bloody ordered both 60mph cd's. Fucking assholes!! sweet smoke just a poke