Confusion's subliminal lettering

read about this somewhere recently - cant remember what it was supposed to say now.

Hmmmm - is it an impolite request for Jewish people to go away?

Does it help if you're not colourblind?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by martin fradley> Hmmmm - is it an impolite request for Jewish people to go away?

We have a winner!

I'd forgotten all about this previously - blimey, they really are Nazis, aren't they?!

Depressingly, once you can see what it allegedly reads it all looks a bit obvious - is this Saville's idea of a joke? Or just a "coincidence", like when the cover of the Roses "One Love" supposedly featured a swastika?

it's 'new order' and 'confusion' overlaid and it could also say many other things. you can read any different agenda into it, all of which would be wrong...the end.

Originally posted by johnny james it's 'new order' and 'confusion' overlaid and it could also say many other things. you can read any different agenda into it, all of which would be wrong...the end.

Thats exactly what it said/says,looks abit like SEW FUK IAN too!

I remember the fuore at the time. Couldn't see it then, can't see it now.

Like he says, all I see is CONFUSION with NEW ORDER over the top. Used to have a pad of graph paper at school. Unfortunately my mates weren't impressed with my limited edition souvenier sleeve replicas...

Originally posted by ShugZV© Still, it's always good to have something to talk about.....except maybe Rudolph Hess

I'd forgot about him.

The cover said to me.. BUY ME NOw but i didn't.I actually was given this by a very good friend.What a mate!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Rocket Mick> The cover said to me.. BUY ME NOw but i didn't.I actually was given this by a very good friend.What a mate!

I fell for the Buy Me Now too Mr Rocquette. Both this, and True Faith, were purchased on v.hot summer days then played through on me Mum & Dad's stereo with no basic notion of what I was about to receive.

I thought Confusion was shit first off (TF was alright but I couldn't work out what Hooky did on 63). A.E.I.O.U was an infinitely better song on the same theme at that time though. Still, you have to say New Order tried, and at least attempted to bring dance muzak to Indie w&nkers who otherwise wouldn't have a clue. Have to say though, Confusion did initally sound like a cash-in from a band who'd briefly broached the dance world with BM six months earlier, mind. 20 years on though, I'm not quite so cynical. Bloody hell AL....i absolutely hated this track too for almost 20 years.It was only when the 2001/2 remixes came out that i actually started listening to the original again.And now i really love this track.To say i hated it was an understatement hence the reason a mate gave me his copy.I had NOT bothered to buy it.Still now i have it and enjoy it like most other NEW ORDER singles.Most NOOL's have always seemed to love it from the start and i thought i was in the minority of one.Now we are THE OTHER TWO.Keep it quiet though!

yer i remember the supposed comments at the time it came out and to be honest i thought i could see it,but then again its like looking at them bloody 3d pictures that was popular a while back,u know the one i mean ,them that was a bundle of dots n slashes n shit that was supposed to look like a chicken if u squinted enough for long enough but all you saw was a bunch of dots? and convinced yerself u saw it. always thought it was rubish really and even possibly stirred up by factory themselves to rake in more sales after the sucsess with blue monday. all that said though im very fond of confusion not least cos it showed that they was moving forward musically when they could have so easily gone all formula after blue monday. To this day one of my favorite memories is when i saw this song being played at the hacienda and the dance floor jammed packed with people dancing to it. top tune.

Some good points there AL.Indeed the actually recorded next to nothing whilst in IBEZA (sorry i can't spell) but i agree with how forward looking they were.I was always aware that what they did was for themselves and sometimes they created a genre without even trying.Now people just assume that they tried to jump on the bandwaggon.But we know different.The had their own agenda which was to ENJOY themselves and if us,the fans,enjoyed it well bully for us.This is why events un-nerve me!(sic).I just love the fact that another tour will happen soon and i can meet up with you lot again.Oh its the last time...oh it's the last fcuking time! ;)

Originally posted by johnny james it's 'new order' and 'confusion' overlaid and it could also say many other things. you can read any different agenda into it, all of which would be wrong...the end.

Yer right though... But from the 'f' on it does look like 'füher'!

Originally posted by FAC442 > Originally posted by johnny james> it's 'new order' and 'confusion' overlaid and it could also say many other things. you can read any different agenda into it, all of which would be wrong...the end.

Yer right though... But from the 'f' on it does look like 'füher'! isn't it spelled fuhrer though

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Rocket Mick> Some good points there AL.Indeed the actually recorded next to nothing whilst in IBEZA (sorry i can't spell) but i agree with how forward looking they were.I was always aware that what they did was for themselves and sometimes they created a genre without even trying.Now people just assume that they tried to jump on the bandwaggon.But we know different.The had their own agenda which was to ENJOY themselves and if us,the fans,enjoyed it well bully for us.This is why events un-nerve me!(sic).I just love the fact that another tour will happen soon and i can meet up with you lot again.Oh its the last time...oh it's the last fcuking time! ;)

You not doing Kraftwerk in Manc, Mick? Me and Johnny G were talking about it in the pub tonight and wondered which Norverners will be around?

Yep, Confusion was a record straight from their own agenda. Thought it was shit at the time, and thought Fine Time was shit on first hearing. Looking back though, they were so 'THEN' for their times. However, other people did it so much better in the day. Two cultures I totally embraced at that time, mind, and I can now fully appreciate said tunes, but they were not what I was expecting on either release date. I can see why kids today might think either track is sh1te but then I can listen to Elvis or the Beatles and not understand why either artiste was in any way 'ground-breaking' cos they just sound like regular pop muzak to me. However, Confusion was class in 83. Fine Time was top of its game (but maybe just 3 or 4 months late?) in 1988. If you weren't there, I don't see how (culturally) you can comment. They haven't travelled well, but at least they tried.

I know this is a bit off-topic (sorry!), but this is exactly what I was trying to say about 'Republic' before, how I like it nowadays because I know what it is about, which I didn't at the time and just thought NO were trying to cash it in, which I thought appalling, really.

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by FAC442> > > > Originally posted by johnny james> > it's 'new order' and 'confusion' overlaid and it could also say many other things. you can read any different agenda into it, all of which would be wrong...the end.>

Yer right though... But from the 'f' on it does look like 'füher'! isn't it spelled fuhrer though

Dunno, don't speak german!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Rocket Mick> The cover said to me.. BUY ME NOw but i didn't.I actually was given this by a very good friend.What a mate!

I fell for the Buy Me Now too Mr Rocquette. Both this, and True Faith, were purchased on v.hot summer days then played through on me Mum & Dad's stereo with no basic notion of what I was about to receive.

I thought Confusion was shit first off (TF was alright but I couldn't work out what Hooky did on 63). A.E.I.O.U was an infinitely better song on the same theme at that time though. Still, you have to say New Order tried, and at least attempted to bring dance muzak to Indie w&nkers who otherwise wouldn't have a clue. Have to say though, Confusion did initally sound like a cash-in from a band who'd briefly broached the dance world with BM six months earlier, mind. 20 years on though, I'm not quite so cynical.

To be fair, the cash-in sound was more to do with Baker than New Order. Live performances from the period sound much closer to the Substance version.

RM - chalk up another one who didnt like confusion for ages.

annoying thing was had so many mixes of it it was untrue!

I loved it when i first heard it! One of the first 12" i got and thus got extra HEAVY ROTATION!!!

rah-ta-ta-tata-ta-ta-hey!!!

I like it. Always have done.

why can't why can't why can't wanker wanker wanker...

Al, just wondering what you think of when you think of Balearic? Ibiza in the late 80's was known as a pretty broadminded place for music and I'd say Technique whilst not entirely typical of the sound wasn't that alien to it either. The slower paced dance vibe, chill-out and 80's rock all went. Have you seen 'A Short Film About Chilling'? Filmed in 1990 and follows the Boys Own d.j.'s and promoters around.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Al, just wondering what you think of when you think of Balearic? Ibiza in the late 80's was known as a pretty broadminded place for music and I'd say Technique whilst not entirely typical of the sound wasn't that alien to it either. The slower paced dance vibe, chill-out and 80's rock all went. Have you seen 'A Short Film About Chilling'? Filmed in 1990 and follows the Boys Own d.j.'s and promoters around.

Featuring 808 State, The Farm and A Man Called Adam. Quadrant Park here we come.

Originally posted by Casey Ryback > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Al, just wondering what you think of when you think of Balearic? Ibiza in the late 80's was known as a pretty broadminded place for music and I'd say Technique whilst not entirely typical of the sound wasn't that alien to it either. The slower paced dance vibe, chill-out and 80's rock all went. Have you seen 'A Short Film About Chilling'? Filmed in 1990 and follows the Boys Own d.j.'s and promoters around.

Featuring 808 State, The Farm and A Man Called Adam. Quadrant Park here we come.

Drove down Derby Road earlier. Always strange to equate the madness that went on in there with a some rubble and a couple of advertising hoardings.

If you place acopy of confusion on top of yer telly an take 5 seps back, then drink 5 stella, spin round 20 times, the lettering says HELLO JULIO - try it !

So if the lettering on Confusion is a hidden message to Jews,does that mean Fantin-Latour isnt a basket of flowers and its actually a wreath?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Al, just wondering what you think of when you think of Balearic? Ibiza in the late 80's was known as a pretty broadminded place for music and I'd say Technique whilst not entirely typical of the sound wasn't that alien to it either. The slower paced dance vibe, chill-out and 80's rock all went. Have you seen 'A Short Film About Chilling'? Filmed in 1990 and follows the Boys Own d.j.'s and promoters around.

Nope, not seen the film, sounds interesting. The balearic term just seems a bit too broad with the boundaries not defined enough. I prefer dance music to sound like dance music. I'm trying to think of tunes from that period but perhaps stuff like Fingers Inc and Frankie Knuckles. There was a freebie CD which came with something a couple of years back where Oakenfold was putting together his 'Ibitha Classics'. He'd mixed in the likes of the Woodentops and the Cure's Lullaby to make a 'dance' album. That's just to much diversity for my liking. Plus the fact, of course, I hate the fcuking Cure!!

Blue Monday aside, I still find it hard to equate New Order as 'dance' music as well. Remixes are fine - something like the Pump Panel Confusion is mental in a club - but I find it hard to visualise something like Technique offered up as such. It's just good muzak to jump up and down to.

Isn't it more about the perceived attitude and ambience than the tunes per se - kind of like with the Stone Roses album: that was constanly linked with dance culture but (apart from mani's funk-homage bass now and again) it's certainly not a dance album in the way we know it. So I guess maybe its drugs - both "Technique" and "The Stone Roses" (and some would argue De La Soul's "3 Feet High...") are surely "E" records?

And what is the meaning of "93" ?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by dreamattacker> And what is the meaning of "93" ?

Again, it has right-wing symbolism. It's a reverse of 39, ie. 1939 when the last great war started and the Nazis thought they'd reached a pinnacle whereby they could basically go out and bulldozer the rest of Europe. "93" now signifies that the Nazis are regrouping again to reach a point of power, much the same as 1939, whereby they can try to take over the world once again.

Oh, and anyone who lives at a house numbered 93 is also defo a Nazi.

It's also a number often used by thelemites.

Al ! I was with all the way up to again.

Too complicated for me, where's my Puligny Montrachet

Hated Confusion right from the first listening. Had seen it live a couple of times before it came out on record, didn't quite know why they were doing what they were, it didn't seem to fit with any of the other newer stuff. Resented the way they always played it at Birmingham gigs when they could have done something I liked instead. Eventually began to appreciate the 12" versions in about 1986. Started to appreciate the Substance version as being fairly representative of the live version, then thankfully it began to take a back seat. Haven't heard any of the more recent mixes (unless there's one on Retro, in which case it wasn't memorable).

Have completed a wicked version of it for when we get out there and start playing shows for you all. Possibly my favourite of all the ones I've sequenced.

Oh come on, Al, the most impressionable could take seriously your nonsense. :D I hope Andy Robinson isn't checking the board, otherwise if I was him I'd call my lawyer...

Mick, Al IS Andy Rob's lawyer.......

Originally posted by Low-Life Mick, Al IS Andy Rob's lawyer.......

*But I'm Barney's dentist, so beware!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by dreamattacker> And what is the meaning of "93" ?

Again, it has right-wing symbolism. It's a reverse of 39, ie. 1939 when the last great war started and the Nazis thought they'd reached a pinnacle whereby they could basically go out and bulldozer the rest of Europe. "93" now signifies that the Nazis are regrouping again to reach a point of power, much the same as 1939, whereby they can try to take over the world once again.

Oh, and anyone who lives at a house numbered 93 is also defo a Nazi.

Yes. But if you flip 93 upside-down, and rearrange the numbers you get 63. Clearly a reference to Ms. Monroe killing Mr. Kennedy in January, 1963, or was it not...? Hmm.

/TLV

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Al, just wondering what you think of when you think of Balearic? Ibiza in the late 80's was known as a pretty broadminded place for music and I'd say Technique whilst not entirely typical of the sound wasn't that alien to it either. The slower paced dance vibe, chill-out and 80's rock all went. Have you seen 'A Short Film About Chilling'? Filmed in 1990 and follows the Boys Own d.j.'s and promoters around.

It's just good muzak to jump up and down to.

HOOLIGAN!!!

Originally posted by almanso help me here! i have a hard time understanding plain english and you want me to decode a sleeve with that help? :Dcome on, tell us. is it that hard to say?

It's not exactly plain English, but if you believe the stories then it supposedly says JEWFUKOFF.

It quite clearly doesn't, but when did the truth ever get in the way of a good story...

That first bit is never a "J"

Wasn't Rob G Jewish???

Peter Saville designed the cover,NOT New Order.

He`s the Nazi,havent you noticed those fuckin roll neck jumpers he wears? Whats he hiding under there?

:D

Nah, it can't be - first letter isn't a 'J' by any stretch of the imagination, and the letter that's supposed to be a 'K' doesn't look like a 'K' at all (no line going from the middle to the top right)...

So, basically, it's complete and utter bollox!

l8rs,

Nick ;)

And what about the "O"? It's a D!

Nowfuckoff I can see ( post blunt ), cant see the jew bit .. in fact theres only one f in it ... theres no f in new order Theres no f in milk either,so I aint havin cornflakes today

if you look at the original masters of the confusion sleeve in the saville exhibition it's even harder to see.