Barney's lyrics

I've just been reading through some lyrics... And I was struck by how good they actually were! I don't know if it's because of the late/early hour (3:20 AM), but suddenly everything made sense... I read through the lyrics for 60 mph, a song that I don't like much, and those are really really good lyrics... I think I've said something about them - that they are naïve lyrics, but they are not... Maybe it's because when he's singing them it doesn't make sense?

Hmm I'm the one not making sense.. Maybe I'll delete this message in the morning.

Please don't delete it, S. lady.

I mean, it doesn't happen every day that we have some nice comments about Barney's lyrics... :)

"we" Buster, you mean you and the Lady?

Cos' I still love all the lyrics.

Hey Jeff!

Have you always wanted New Order to turn out to be the Smiths.........???? why?

I think was Jeff means is that, luckily, it didn't turn out to be The Smiths...

Erm.. wadya mean there Klumpsy boy? Should we understand that you don't appreciate this band ??

No, Pitch, it's just that I couldn't imagine New Order turning out to be The Smiths, it would be out of character.

But I do like The Smiths.

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy No, Pitch, it's just that I couldn't imagine New Order turning out to be The Smiths, it would be out of character.But I do like The Smiths.

So do I - you'd probably guessed.. :D Nothing offending, though.

Mozzer is quite a bit of a character, you're right.

My opinion exactly, Jeff.

By the way, Jeff, is "wanker" a term that you picked up here? It's not a word I had ever heard before seeing it used here.

Originally posted by Patrick By the way, Jeff, is "wanker" a term that you picked up here? It's not a word I had ever heard before seeing it used here.

I'd say Muffler & Huntsy are using it a lot, but.. I may be wrong? :p

It's no american-english, is it??

i've always found Barney's lyrics to be quite enigmatic believe it or not!

he did an interview for Electronic some while ago where he mentioned his "insouciant" lyric writing style!

I've heard it a lot and not only here, Patrick.

Klumpy, the reason I asked Jeff is that I didn't think it was a U.S. term.

Pfew!

I am glad that I misunderstood Jeff!

I also like the Smiths, but I am VERY VERY VERY HAPPY the New Order (still... ha ha) are way differing from the Smiths (as they were... ha ha).

When only you start comparing those two... Barrissey and Morney! eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhh.

The lyrics for the songs on Brotherhood are also really, really, good.. but even if the songs are good too (melodywise and so on), there is something that doesn't sound good with that record.. I can't fugure out what it is ...could it be the production?

About Brotherhood, I was complaining here a while ago that to me the mix sounded muddy; the vocals aren't sufficiently separated from the rest. Turning it louder helps, but there is still some kind of problem there.

Just thought i'd mention how terrible i thought the lyrics were for half of Get Ready. It seems that if Barney isn't taking loads of acid (temptation-PCL) or E (Technique) or fighting with the band (Republic) he has nothing to say. Who ever said he writes about love is right but he's writing about things that mean nothing to him and in turn, they mean nothing to us. I know his lyrics don't have to mean anything but it would be nice if they at least made sense. I believe the best lyrics on Get Ready are Primitive Notion followed by Vicious Streak and Turn My Way is decent. The rest are empty rhyme after empty rhyme. Every fucking line on Get Ready rhymes with the one before it (practically). I wish i didn't speak English so I could just enjoy the sound of his voice but Barney's inability to come up with subject matter that means something to him translates into lyrics that are shallow and meaningless. Slow Jam is so bad it's embarassing and who the fuck drives 60MPH and thinks they're going fast? (maybe he was in a school zone). Run Wild is beautiful except for the words Barney says. If this song is supposed to be for S&G's sick child, Barney does a shit job of keeping the same theme throughout the song. How many lines of the song can be attributed to this theory? Cetainly Barney doesn't think singing "I'm gonna live to get high" is appropriate to add to a song dealing with the possible death of a friends child. I think he takes the easiest way out and writes whatever he thinks of first that rhymes with the previous line. "i'm gonna live til i die (very original barney), i'm gonna live to get high" In school we call this plagurism (but we might spell it slightly different). I enjoy hearing Barney's voice but I think he's running out of interesting things to say. Nothing on Get Ready has the impact of Dream Attack or Leave Me Alone and frankly, i doubt if Barney can write a good lyric anymore. He's middle aged with a family and tons of money and he gets along with his band. He has no inspiration lyrically. In fact, the bland lyrics of Get Ready sort of match the straightforward "rock" approach to most of the album. New Order are not trying as hard as they used to and its starting to show. Same set every night, mtv darling guests on their albums (kill Billy Corgan!), multiple releases for one song, never ending new versions of Blue Monday (yet the same boring version in concert). Peter Hook should be reminded of his statement that putting singles on albums was a rip-off.

The only plus to New Order 2001 that I can see is that they sound great together (if only they would play something else now) and they seem happy.

I love New Order but i hate where they're headed.

Anyone here remember Barney's crazy explanation for how he gets his lyrics, around the time of Brotherhood in 1986-1987: he was banging on about this "ball of juice" in his head and how this thing inspires him to write what he feels it tells him to. Honestly - what drugs was he on then? I think this appeared in an interview in Melody Maker around this time (Ted Mico probably wrote the piece) - when his surreal sense of hummous was perhaps at its most extreme. What a wag!

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan Just thought i'd mention how terrible i thought the lyrics were for half of Get Ready. It seems that if Barney isn't taking loads of acid (temptation-PCL) or E (Technique) or fighting with the band (Republic) he has nothing to say. Who ever said he writes about love is right but he's writing about things that mean nothing to him and in turn, they mean nothing to us. I know his lyrics don't have to mean anything but it would be nice if they at least made sense. I believe the best lyrics on Get Ready are Primitive Notion followed by Vicious Streak and Turn My Way is decent. The rest are empty rhyme after empty rhyme. Every fucking line on Get Ready rhymes with the one before it (practically). I wish i didn't speak English so I could just enjoy the sound of his voice but Barney's inability to come up with subject matter that means something to him translates into lyrics that are shallow and meaningless. Slow Jam is so bad it's embarassing and who the fuck drives 60MPH and thinks they're going fast? (maybe he was in a school zone). Run Wild is beautiful except for the words Barney says. If this song is supposed to be for S&G's sick child, Barney does a shit job of keeping the same theme throughout the song. How many lines of the song can be attributed to this theory? Cetainly Barney doesn't think singing "I'm gonna live to get high" is appropriate to add to a song dealing with the possible death of a friends child. I think he takes the easiest way out and writes whatever he thinks of first that rhymes with the previous line. "i'm gonna live til i die (very original barney), i'm gonna live to get high" In school we call this plagurism (but we might spell it slightly different). I enjoy hearing Barney's voice but I think he's running out of interesting things to say. Nothing on Get Ready has the impact of Dream Attack or Leave Me Alone and frankly, i doubt if Barney can write a good lyric anymore. He's middle aged with a family and tons of money and he gets along with his band. He has no inspiration lyrically. In fact, the bland lyrics of Get Ready sort of match the straightforward "rock" approach to most of the album. New Order are not trying as hard as they used to and its starting to show. Same set every night, mtv darling guests on their albums (kill Billy Corgan!), multiple releases for one song, never ending new versions of Blue Monday (yet the same boring version in concert). Peter Hook should be reminded of his statement that putting singles on albums was a rip-off. The only plus to New Order 2001 that I can see is that they sound great together (if only they would play something else now) and they seem happy.I love New Order but i hate where they're headed.

Fuck me, you are SO right! Look at Noel Gallagher as well: There's virtually no difference between the two. I've always thought of Barney as a lazy lyricist, just like King Thunderbird Monobrow himself, some writers may think he's being enigmatic and oblique, but such asinine rhyming just undermines the beauty of every New Order song we should ever care about - check out some of his earlier howlers like "State Of The Nation" for instance (I keep mentioning this one as an example). He doesn't seem to make the effort. And Get Ready IS chock ful of embarrassingly trite non-wordsmithery. What a buffoon indeed.

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan Just thought i'd mention how terrible i thought the lyrics were for half of Get Ready. It seems that if Barney isn't taking loads of acid (temptation-PCL) or E (Technique) or fighting with the band (Republic) he has nothing to say. Who ever said he writes about love is right but he's writing about things that mean nothing to him and in turn, they mean nothing to us. I know his lyrics don't have to mean anything but it would be nice if they at least made sense. I believe the best lyrics on Get Ready are Primitive Notion followed by Vicious Streak and Turn My Way is decent. The rest are empty rhyme after empty rhyme. Every fucking line on Get Ready rhymes with the one before it (practically). I wish i didn't speak English so I could just enjoy the sound of his voice but Barney's inability to come up with subject matter that means something to him translates into lyrics that are shallow and meaningless. Slow Jam is so bad it's embarassing and who the fuck drives 60MPH and thinks they're going fast? (maybe he was in a school zone). Run Wild is beautiful except for the words Barney says. If this song is supposed to be for S&G's sick child, Barney does a shit job of keeping the same theme throughout the song. How many lines of the song can be attributed to this theory? Cetainly Barney doesn't think singing "I'm gonna live to get high" is appropriate to add to a song dealing with the possible death of a friends child. I think he takes the easiest way out and writes whatever he thinks of first that rhymes with the previous line. "i'm gonna live til i die (very original barney), i'm gonna live to get high" In school we call this plagurism (but we might spell it slightly different). I enjoy hearing Barney's voice but I think he's running out of interesting things to say. Nothing on Get Ready has the impact of Dream Attack or Leave Me Alone and frankly, i doubt if Barney can write a good lyric anymore. He's middle aged with a family and tons of money and he gets along with his band. He has no inspiration lyrically. In fact, the bland lyrics of Get Ready sort of match the straightforward "rock" approach to most of the album. New Order are not trying as hard as they used to and its starting to show. Same set every night, mtv darling guests on their albums (kill Billy Corgan!), multiple releases for one song, never ending new versions of Blue Monday (yet the same boring version in concert). Peter Hook should be reminded of his statement that putting singles on albums was a rip-off. The only plus to New Order 2001 that I can see is that they sound great together (if only they would play something else now) and they seem happy.I love New Order but i hate where they're headed.

Phew...Brian, I hope the Order do come on tour to the states because all this stuff about lyrics won't mean a thing when your pogoing down the front to the opening bars of Crystal, Transmission, Regret and Ceremony.

Originally posted by Martin Gray Fuck me, you are SO right! Look at Noel Gallagher as well: There's virtually no difference between the two. I've always thought of Barney as a lazy lyricist, just like King Thunderbird Monobrow himself, some writers may think he's being enigmatic and oblique, but such asinine rhyming just undermines the beauty of every New Order song we should ever care about - check out some of his earlier howlers like "State Of The Nation" for instance(I keep mentioning this one as an example)

No Martin there is a monumental difference between Barney and Monobrow... Barney has a sense of humour whereas Noel is just inane. He seems to be dead serious about everything and probably sees his lyrics as 'profound' and himself as 'genious'. This is generally speaking, I'm not referring only to the latest things they've done.

Nice topic. I must say that i actually like most of the lyrics,wether they make sense or not. There's lots of humour in them and if they are about love well then they are about love. one of my favourites is: "i think you are a pig , you should be in a zoo". I also was a huge smiths fan. excellent music and great lyrics, but i guess Barney is not the same guy as Morse.(thank god for that).

Well, Jeff, I just thought it would be interesting if those of us on this side of the ocean were having our language affected by the influence of the large numbers from the other side that come here.

Interesing topic. I do agree with a lot of whats said about the lyrics to Get Ready, though I think your being a little harsh. Lyrically stuff like PN, VS and 60mph are pretty good, the rest at best average. I've always thought the music was far more important than the lyrics with NO. Barney himself has said he asn't got a particlar message to give to the world + Id rather him write nonsense lyrics than try to force something profund.

RE the drivve at 60mph lyric...I'd always thought it was quite a clever lyric indicating they wouldn't drive at full speed, but a notch below. ie not take the 'relationship' too fast. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

Originally posted by Martin Gray Anyone here remember Barney's crazy explanation for how he gets his lyrics, around the time of Brotherhood in 1986-1987: he was banging on about this "ball of juice" in his head and how this thing inspires him to write what he feels it tells him to. Honestly - what drugs was he on then? I think this appeared in an interview in Melody Maker around this time (Ted Mico probably wrote the piece) - when his surreal sense of hummous was perhaps at its most extreme. What a wag!

Yeah, I remember that piece.

brian, martin i totally agree....barneys never been one of the great lyricists but somehow it didnt matter so much before; he seemed to carry the daftness off with a bit more panache. im not looking for "meaningful" lyrics, or incredible insight(though barney manages that sometimes)or poetry; ive not got some kind of stalinistic attitude towards assessing a lyrics merits. fuck that, id merely like a rest from the often trite, cliched and predictable lyrics found on "get ready".

god, my post seems fucking harsh....despite all that, barney, yure still the cats whiskers..

completely agree that early lyrics can appeal on a deeper level than the on GetReady, look at the lyrics on LowLife for instance...

other lyrics i think are worth noting off the top of my head are Round&Round and Special both of which can be taken on many levels of understanding.

I think many lyrics Barneys done with Electronic are quite sublime as well, the first album is pretty much acclaimed as being of a very high standard (if u forgive the ermm.. "experimental" feel every beat!) B ut who can forget Forbidden City off Raise the pressure?? What an inspired way to start an album with the line -

"There's not a hope, While you're in this kind of mood"

class!!

Originally posted by Jeff White > Originally posted by Patrick> By the way, Jeff, is "wanker" a term that you picked up here? It's not a word I had ever heard before seeing it used here.

actually, the first time I heard the term wanker...it was on a tape made by a drunken Dudley Moore and one of his pals...they talked about metallic penises...wankers...they sang a song about a man jumping from a burning building (they told him to jump into the blanket that they were not holding)...it was actually a very amusing tape, unfortunately, I have no idea what the heck happened to it!

saw an episode of married with children once set in wanker county in the us of a & everyone was called wanker. made it much funnier in the uk & was surprised it was shown at all over here

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy > Originally posted by Martin Gray> Anyone here remember Barney's crazy explanation for how he gets his lyrics, around the time of Brotherhood in 1986-1987: he was banging on about this "ball of juice" in his head and how this thing inspires him to write what he feels it tells him to. Honestly - what drugs was he on then? I think this appeared in an interview in Melody Maker around this time (Ted Mico probably wrote the piece) - when his surreal sense of hummous was perhaps at its most extreme. What a wag!

Yeah, I remember that piece.

Gosh! I'm glad someone does then! Glad because it means people aren't gonna assume I'm making things up again.... I can always count on you for the occasional factual verification Buster! You Rock!!

Originally posted by dave hibell > Originally posted by Jeff White> > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > By the way, Jeff, is "wanker" a term that you picked up here? It's not a word I had ever heard before seeing it used here.>

actually, the first time I heard the term wanker...it was on a tape made by a drunken Dudley Moore and one of his pals...they talked about metallic penises...wankers...they sang a song about a man jumping from a burning building (they told him to jump into the blanket that they were not holding)...it was actually a very amusing tape, unfortunately, I have no idea what the heck happened to it!

saw an episode of married with children once set in wanker county in the us of a & everyone was called wanker. made it much funnier in the uk & was surprised it was shown at all over here

Not half as funny as, back in 1990, when I taught my (then ) 12-year old American cousin the meaning of the word "Wanker" and - in an hilarious echo of the notorious Matt Bianco debacle on BBC1's Saturday Superstore in 1984 - he called into a live dial-in pop roadshow that came to Nevada and told the special guests of the day New Kids On The Block : "Gee you guys are such wankers". The band thought he was complimenting them and thanked him graciously on air, not realising what he meant.... I pissed myself at that one. So now Alex, aged 23 and now happily engaged, has never looked back. What a trooper! Ha ha ha ha

"the lyrics is an observation the way normal people live", just this.

barneys lyrics are ambiquios. i always found them very intriging and understood them and related to them as i was growing up. the ones i didnt understand made me delve deeper into his work and mind which was both scary and fasenating. the worst time i had was questioning life and taking drugs while using new orders lyrics as a guide, now that was brilliant and stupid but not regrettable. remember if you take on some elses mind be prepared as you might not like what you find, as ive found it had a profound effect on me and will haunt me to my death bed...yet strange after being thru what i went thru all the pain and the dark stuff of psyschosis and delusions, they are now the only band i play and the music i listen too...

[Content deleted by melanie on 2/27/2003 7:03:46 AM EDT]

Originally posted by melanie barneys lyrics are ambiquios. i always found them very intriging and understood them and related to them as i was growing up. the ones i didnt understand made me delve deeper into his work and mind which was both scary and fasenating. the worst time i had was questioning life and taking drugs while using new orders lyrics as a guide, now that was brilliant and stupid but not regrettable. remember if you take on some elses mind be prepared as you might not like what you find, as ive found it had a profound effect on me and will haunt me to my death bed...yet strange after being thru what i went thru all the pain and the dark stuff of psyschosis and delusions, they are now the only band i play and the music i listen too...

Blimey!

I do kind of get your drift tho....

I find that half of the time I love Barney's lyrics and half of the time I'm embarassed at how awful they are. (Exhibit A: Lonesome Tonight.) He writes a mess of trite crap and then will toss in a zinger that redeems the song (Exhibit B: Your Silent Face). I don't know, for somebody who never set out to be a lyricist he does a decent job, even if he's Mr. Rhyming Couplets most of the time.

I think part of Barney's problem is that he's not Ian Curtis, who was a devastatingly incredible lyricist, and Barney will always in some sense be at least subconsciously compared to Ian.

As for the complaints about Run Wild-- I agree, although I was under the impression that while the song was inspired by Grace, it was written to not necessarily be exactly about that. It could just as easily be directed to a girlfriend, frankly. And the "Live to get high," while inappropriate for a song about a dying child, may work in the sense that the song is about cheering somebody up ("good times around the corner") and, well, since Grace isn't dying, that might be why B can be somewhat flippant about it.

This is interesting. I had always loved his lyrics up until Republic (which still had some incredible lyrics, but it had an inordinate amount of crap lyrics too). I love some of his stuff on Movement, even though its self-concious and I hate the album itself. And then there is Procession, Mesh, Cries and Whispers, Everything Gone Green, Blue Monday, Thieves Like us (equally cheesy and beautiful, pure Barney), your silent face, leave me alone, sunrise, this time of night, love vigilantees, as it is when it was, broken promise, All Day Long, BLT, True Faith, 1963 Loveless, ALl the way, Vanishing Point, Regret, Special, Everyone Everywhere. There are a lot of tremendous lyrical songs.

Your right, few would compare him to Ian, but on the other hand Barney certainly had a greater lyrical range to his lyrics, if not equal depth, in comparison to Ian. I don't think Ian could write equally well about heartbreak and devestation as he could about joy, and pleasure, and basic fun. Ian's tunes dealt with very specific themes, Barneys lyrics deal with everything conceivable from soccer to lost love, to drugs, to child abuse, to war and everything inbetween. He'll never write anything as consistently magnificent lyrically as Closer, but he can write lyrics, song by song, that are up to the qualities and the standards of the very best songs off of Closer.

And I actually like the lyrics on Lonesome Tonight. :)

Originally posted by DoN i've always found Barney's lyrics to be quite enigmatic believe it or not!he did an interview for Electronic some while ago where he mentioned his "insouciant" lyric writing style!

i think Barney's lyrics are some of the most enigmatic i've ever encountered, in ANY kind of music, especially pop.

the ambiguous political/personal meanings of the songs, particularly around the Power Corruption & Lies era (even the title of the album) are as enigmatic as pop lyrics get, in many ways.

Bloody hell, this thread's a bit of a blast from the past, isn't it??!

Listen to This Time Of Night quietly and alone and the lyrics can almost make you shiver as their so cold and scathing yet at the same time strangely comforting.. Barneys voice was also still quite subdued at this stage with a lot more empathy in his voice than he managed on GetReady i reckon.

His lyrics have a pop strength which other groups' writers don't quite possess--he can get away with practically anything because if it's singable it's a winner. And that is a key in pop music--i mean otherwise how could Fine Time have been a hit single? Blue Monday is a classic dance tune because it set the stage for platitudinal lyrics and virtually every dance act has followed that lead since.

And let's look at the target audience here, who is New Order appealing to? It isn't to the 50+contemplative rock audience who are into Tracy Chapman and Bruce Springsteen, it's about clubs and drugs....and nutters like us all

I've always used the rule of 1/3 with Barney's lyrics.

1/3 are very meaningful (Your Silent Face, Cries & Whispers)

1/3 are silly but good (Crystal, 60MPH, Perfect Kiss)

1/3 are just awful (slow jam, run wild, rock the shack)

From, Will