More E-bay Muppetry (Back For Another Bite Of The Cherry)

FAKE!!

Probably worth £20.

seconded! someone's throwing away a lot of money

oh dear! it sold for £286. he'll be a little pissed off when he realises.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/bootlegs.html

Don't just sit there, report these bastards! I did.

Though it's not inconceivable that the seller could have been duped as well, given that he wasn't shy about displaying the medusa's head on the label.

One can hope that "bungle011" doesn't live up to his handle and didn't pay for it.

--Sam

I would like to remind anyone purchasing Joy Division items of the existence of the following site:

http://members.aol.com/lwtua/bootlegs.htm

Never get ripped off again!

I am considering emailing the guy so he can get a refund!

£286. Fuck Ing Hell.

Originally posted by Slippy http://members.aol.com/lwtua/bootlegs.htm

Nice page. I wish someone had the energy to put something similar together for New Order.

/TLV

Originally posted by The Happy One http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/bootlegs.htmlDon't just sit there, report these bastards! I did.Though it's not inconceivable that the seller could have been duped as well, given that he wasn't shy about displaying the medusa's head on the label.One can hope that "bungle011" doesn't live up to his handle and didn't pay for it.--Sam

Actually, while I agree that the hype and description could be a bit misleading...one could also argue that the seller actually never says that it is the limited edition of 500 or whatever...the seller must have researched this item and realized that although it was a bootleg/fake that it still was somewhat rare. Although it is a bootleg (and a faked ripoff of the original) it still is relatively rare isn't it?? I bought one years ago for 15$ and have seen it only occasionally on Ebay.

Totally agree that this is worth only about $20-30 in the best instance...but it does still seem to be a collectable. Not sure if the seller really deserves to be labeled a "ripoff" at some point if someone is going to spend hundreds of dollars...doesn't it seem reasonable that they would at least look it up...most discographies I have seen clearly call this a boot of the original.

In fact it looks like several people were willing to pay a pretty penny for this....

I fell bad for the buyer but at some point Caveat Emptor also has to apply...the other bidders should be happy that they lost.

dunno about reporting the seller but the buyer is going to feel really really bad very soon...and probably embarrased when he realizes it

anyway it probably is misleading but certainly not criminal.

Well, Ebay is pretty clear on http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unauthorized-copies.html what they don't allow, and is a better citation than the bootleg url I pasted in before...the Sordide Sentimental reproduction, while not an "unauthorized copy of live shows or concerts" (since the material in question isn't live, but a studio recording...a bit of a weakness in how Ebay defines bootlegs), is a pirated copy of a legitimate issue. And the seller eliminated any leg to stand on by not acknowledging this...but think about whether one is or should be able to sell counterfeit paintings...even if the counterfeit itself is collectable.

--Sam

to be fair the seller has a good rep and it's quite obvious from his description that he doesn't really know what it is, so he's not gonna know about all the bootlegs of it. the pics are there for all the bidders to see and they should do a little research.

Originally posted by Hydrapelican > Originally posted by The Happy One> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/bootlegs.html> > Don't just sit there, report these bastards! I did.> > Though it's not inconceivable that the seller could have been duped as well, given that he wasn't shy about displaying the medusa's head on the label.> > One can hope that "bungle011" doesn't live up to his handle and didn't pay for it.> > --Sam

Actually, while I agree that the hype and description could be a bit misleading...one could also argue that the seller actually never says that it is the limited edition of 500 or whatever...the seller must have researched this item and realized that although it was a bootleg/fake that it still was somewhat rare. Although it is a bootleg (and a faked ripoff of the original) it still is relatively rare isn't it?? I bought one years ago for 15$ and have seen it only occasionally on Ebay.

Totally agree that this is worth only about $20-30 in the best instance...but it does still seem to be a collectable. Not sure if the seller really deserves to be labeled a "ripoff" at some point if someone is going to spend hundreds of dollars...doesn't it seem reasonable that they would at least look it up...most discographies I have seen clearly call this a boot of the original.

In fact it looks like several people were willing to pay a pretty penny for this....

I fell bad for the buyer but at some point Caveat Emptor also has to apply...the other bidders should be happy that they lost.

dunno about reporting the seller but the buyer is going to feel really really bad very soon...and probably embarrased when he realizes it

anyway it probably is misleading but certainly not criminal.

Well effectively a bootleg is an illegal copy. Selling an illegal copy is copyright infringement and therefore criminal!

I don't disagree that the act of selling/owning bootlegs is impermissable...but then most of people on this board own them in one form or another...if you've bought or even received as a gift an unauthorized copy of a live recording that makes you just as guilty...just because you didn't pay for it doesn't make it any less wrong. Do you get as upset by live show boots??

Also, selling or trading these on Ebay also violates their user policies as well...no argument there.

That being said...in REALITY (aka the world where we and everyone else has boots of shows) it is not that uncommon that bootlegs are tacitly tolerated by many of the labels/artists (at least as long as its not costing them any lost revenue). Anyway, do you really honestly believe that the fake of Sordide is costing NO anything that they otherwise would have earned? If there was a substantial market for these I'm sure that they would have been rereleased.

My point was not to determine the legality of what the seller was doing but just objecting to painting him as morally reprehensible and the buyer a poor sap who deserves to be protected from him....I just dont think its quite as black and white as some have made it out to be...thats all.

ok...my screed is done for now...lets all just have a and I promise to relax as well :p

I get the impression from the description that the seller has no more clue about the item than the ordinary man on the street (who is, after all, a c-) would. The description about being handed out to execs or whatever is just total bollocks. Let's face it. If you had a blue and white chinese vase and you didn't know what it was and you described it as "chinese vase" with no reserve price, what's the harm in that? If someone mistakenly believes that your "chinese vase" is actually a Ming vase worth thousands of pounds and bids accordingly, that surely is their fault not yours, isn't it? The problem comes when you descibe your vase as "rare", "must have collectable", or whatever.

This buyer, on the other hand, obviously reckons he knows his onions otherwise he wouldn't have bid almost £300. I think if you were going to spend that kind of money on a 7" you would want to be pretty sure you knew what you were doing first (it's a lot of cash in my world anyway - Mr Sultan might consider it pocket change).

So, conclusion:

1. Selling bootlegs is wrong if you pretend they are not bootlegs.
2. Selling bootlegs and not knowing that that's what they are is okay, as long as you don't pretend the item is something more than it is. Let the buyer decide.
3. Spending £200+ on a single is stupid if you don't really know what you're doing.
4. Perhaps he might like the nice Blue Monday 83 CD single too?

Another one up his sleeve, or did the original sale fall through?*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58648&item=4009854687&rd=1

*Note the more "honest" description...

Originally posted by Old Blue Another one up his sleeve, or did the original sale fall through?*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58648&item=4009854687&rd=1

Hmm. Couldn't say! ;)

...and it's still too much ££££££

I've mailed him as well, no way should anyone pay that amount of money for a fake.

You're a bit of an eBay hawk these days aren't you OB?

What are you on the lookout for? Or are you merely providing a complimentary alert service for green NO traders?

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by depthcharge You're a bit of an eBay hawk these days aren't you OB?What are you on the lookout for? Or are you merely providing a complimentary alert service for green NO traders?:\pimp3:

I just like to know what I could make if I ever needed to sell, sell, sell...

Actually, this very day I bought a RIAD cassingle. Still looking for the 1 track K-Klass edit promo CD of that one, though.

Rest assured if I ever see an Aqua EGG, I shall needlessly bid you up on it.

Had to chuckle when I read the sellers description of the sleeve designer's inspiration!

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit Had to chuckle when I read the sellers description of the sleeve designer's inspiration!

both record and cover are in superb condition. It has a grey lined carboard inner and the designer had clearly seen OMD's debut album cover!

Originally posted by Old Blue Rest assured if I ever see an Aqua EGG, I shall needlessly bid you up on it.

Well from the sorry tales I hear, between you and your partner in crime Gilesy you wouldn't know an aqua from blue or green if it jumped up and bit you on your 7".

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by Johnny Giles > Originally posted by depthcharge> You're a bit of an eBay hawk these days aren't you OB?> > What are you on the lookout for? > :\pimp3:

An Aqua FAC53 to wave under your nose

It's PROCESSION - P.R.O.C.E.S.S.I.O.N

It really winds me up this!!!! Benelux had EGG as tha A side grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Actually, 'Everything's Gone Green' is the 'Hard' side, and 'Procession' the 'Soft' side, if you read the run-out groove. There's no way of knowing which is the 'A' side - although I've always assumed it was 'Everything's Gone Green' as that's what's on 'Substance' disc 1, with 'Procession' on the B-sides disc.

Who knows?

Andy

Originally posted by Mr Discography Actually, 'Everything's Gone Green' is the 'Hard' side, and 'Procession' the 'Soft' side, if you read the run-out groove. There's no way of knowing which is the 'A' side - although I've always assumed it was 'Everything's Gone Green' as that's what's on 'Substance' disc 1, with 'Procession' on the B-sides disc.

Actually, the NZ pressing of Procession/EGG shows "FAC 53A" for the EGG side and "FAC 53B" for the Procession side. But I'm not sure that means that EGG is the definitive a-side. NZ may have gotten things wrong.

The UK pressing I have doesn't indicate neither A nor B. Can someone check other pressings?

/TLV

Originally posted by Johnny Giles > Originally posted by Slippy> > > > Originally posted by Johnny Giles> > > > > > > Originally posted by depthcharge> > > You're a bit of an eBay hawk these days aren't you OB?> > > > > > What are you on the lookout for? > > > :\pimp3:> > >

darned edits

An Aqua FAC53 to wave under your nose

It's PROCESSION - P.R.O.C.E.S.S.I.O.N

It really winds me up this!!!! Benelux had EGG as tha A side grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

did I mention EGG??

C'mon, all aficionados know it as FAC53 [ref; Michael, ROCKET]. Get with the programme ;)

Originally posted by TLV > Originally posted by Mr Discography> Actually, 'Everything's Gone Green' is the 'Hard' side, and 'Procession' the 'Soft' side, if you read the run-out groove. There's no way of knowing which is the 'A' side - although I've always assumed it was 'Everything's Gone Green' as that's what's on 'Substance' disc 1, with 'Procession' on the B-sides disc.

Actually, the NZ pressing of Procession/EGG shows "FAC 53A" for the EGG side and "FAC 53B" for the Procession side. But I'm not sure that means that EGG is the definitive a-side. NZ may have gotten things wrong.

The UK pressing I have doesn't indicate neither A nor B. Can someone check other pressings?

/TLV

Southern Hemisphere, you see. Left is right, the water goes down the plughole the other way...

Just had a rummage to find a copy of the Portugese pressing which also has an "A" etched into the run-out groove on the EGG side and "B" on the flip.

Now once you have the backing of Portugal and New Zealand, well... It may as well be an international consensus.

;)

I always referred to it as the Procession 7" because that's what the TLV discography led my impressionable mind to believe...

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by Old Blue Southern Hemisphere, you see. Left is right, the water goes down the plughole the other way...

Hmm, I've always heard that - and I forgot to check it when I was in NZ a couple of years back... I guess I was so mesmerized by the beautiful nature down there.

Originally posted by depthcharge I always referred to it as the Procession 7" because that's what the TLV discography led my impressionable mind to believe...

And since when do you believe everything you read? :D Anyway, it has long been considered that it's the Procession 7", not EGG. I wonder what it was promoted/sold as back in the days. Any "old-timers" remember?

/TLV

well at the saville show I noticed it was referred to as the 'procession' single, although as pointed out substance says otherwise.

Originally posted by TLV > Originally posted by Old Blue Southern Hemisphere, you see. Left is right, the water goes down the plughole the other way...

Hmm, I've always heard that - and I forgot to check it when I was in NZ a couple of years back... I guess I was so mesmerized by the beautiful nature down there.

Originally posted by depthcharge I always referred to it as the Procession 7" because that's what the TLV discography led my impressionable mind to believe...

And since when do you believe everything you read? :D Anyway, it has long been considered that it's the Procession 7", not EGG. I wonder what it was promoted/sold as back in the days. Any "old-timers" remember?

/TLV

WIM has NZ fac53 sleeves in the discography, they are too rare to find especially with stickers, the last time I saw one it was at echo music try there

Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by TLV> > > > Originally posted by Slippy> > http://members.aol.com/lwtua/bootlegs.htm>

Nice page. I wish someone had the energy to put something similar together for New Order.

/TLV

It's been one of my goals.. I'm starting to seriously wonder if there are anybody out there willing to help me with the content on this website !!!

I am always here to help Nic!!

Originally posted by johnny james well at the saville show I noticed it was referred to as the 'procession' single, although as pointed out substance says otherwise.

Substance is all cacked up anyway!

Originally posted by xxSpookiexx WIM has NZ fac53 sleeves in the discography, they are too rare to find especially with stickers, the last time I saw one it was at echo music try there

They are? Hmm, interesting. I think I saw a few of them in NZ (Auckland and Wellington). Oh well. My copy has the yellow sticker.

/TLV