Roger Lyons vs Blue Monday
Archived23 replies · 535 views
Great read that and sure seems very complicated but easier than the OLD way they did things LIVE.
Cheers ROCKET MICK
A very worthwhile read, and it's sure to cast Mr. Lyons in a more positive light, though I really don't agree that sampling the old multitracks is the best way to capture the spirit behind the classic tracks...better to radically rework it or just set it aside.
A few interesting notes:
* Rebecca Boulton is co-managing New Order with Andy Robinson. Anybody know more about her?
* The vocal choir part was sampled, one of the first known instances of that practice, according to Roger. I take it he declines to mention where it was sampled from (I suspect Kraftwerk) to avoid any possible legal scenarios.
* The drum parts were indeed were done on an Oberheim DMX, as countless live gigs from that era seem to suggest ("more DMX thru the wedgies, Ed!" being a particularly popular ad-lib)
* Roger Lyons admits to speeding some of the old tunes up a semitone to make them sound a bit more upbeat. I'm. just. letting. that. one. slide. by. He must have heard some of the same too-fast boots that I've run across. And liked them that way. 
* He's helped out with Ladytron's sound. There's also an FC Kahuna mention in there. And I thought they only existed in the back pages of MM.
* A group of hardcore NO'ites that follow the band round the world go by the appellation "The Vikings" according to Lyons, yet I don't recall hearing of them prior to the article. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. Al, are you one? :)
Anybody has a good OCR software?
Would be nice to publish this online..
Thanks Al, will read it from work tomorrow..
Originally posted by The Happy One * A group of hardcore NO'ites that follow the band round the world go by the appellation "The Vikings" according to Lyons, yet I don't recall hearing of them prior to the article. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. Al, are you one? :)
It means nothing, I have a pin telling I am one, but I only travelled ONCE 5h to see them 
* The vocal choir part was sampled, one of the first known instances of that practice, according to Roger. I take it he declines to mention where it was sampled from (I suspect Kraftwerk) to avoid any possible legal scenarios.
...you need to listen to the radioactivity album for that one
Wasn't that vocal choir sound a voice on the Emulator? Never knowingly heard it in anything other than Blue Monday, mind you.
Originally posted by The Happy One A group of hardcore NO'ites that follow the band round the world go by the appellation "The Vikings" according to Lyons, yet I don't recall hearing of them prior to the article.
It came from a batch of pin badges I had made up for the European Festival tour in 2002. 'New Order on Tour - The Vikings'. Few of the roadcrew took 'em off me, and I think Roger had half a dozen himself! Sound bloke and always happy to talk to fans. Not sure when this article was put together but we ran into him at Kraftwerk in Mancland and his hair was a great deal longer than this pic, v.shaggy indeed.
Appellation? I've never waxed me legs once, thanks! :\ohwell:
Good stuff Al, cheers for sticking this up. Pity the article doesn't mention any other tracks that RL may ben working on for future shows !
Wasn't that vocal choir sound a voice on the Emulator? Never knowingly heard it in anything other than Blue Monday, mind you.
the emulator is basically a crap sampler (compared to current ones)
Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Good stuff Al, cheers for sticking this up. Pity the article doesn't mention any other tracks that RL may ben working on for future shows !
You mean there'll BE further shows?! 
Originally posted by Mr Discography Wasn't that vocal choir sound a voice on the Emulator? Never knowingly heard it in anything other than Blue Monday, mind you.
There was a long discussion about this on Usenet a year or so back. The consensus of that discussion is summarized in the New Order Discography:
Q: Where does the choir sound come from? A: Most likely the choir sound on Blue Monday is the same as the sound on Kraftwerk's track "Uranium" (off the album "Radioactivity", 1975). Whether or not New Order sampled Uranium, or used the same sound that was included with the Emu Emulator, is not fully known. Kraftwerk used a Mellotron to create the sound.
I guess the question about the choir being sampled or not is now answered.
BTW: Great read Al. This stuff, together with anecdotes from the "oldies" and discussion about rarities, are my favorite topics...
/TLV
Originally posted by Ben Interesting paper. And there is still hope to hear them play The Perfect Kiss live again...
Agreed. As long as they amp it the hell up, instead of piss-watering it down (a la True Faith, BLT, and Touched) 
Originally posted by Aleph > Originally posted by Ben Interesting paper. And there is still hope to hear them play The Perfect Kiss live again...
Agreed. As long as they amp it the hell up, instead of piss-watering it down (a la True Faith, BLT, and Touched)
Agreed too. But if they ask Mr Lyon to do the same job as with Blue Monday, Your Silent face or Ceremony (assuming he was involved in creating the live versions of these tracks too), it would be alright! 
Very much appreciated Al.
They want over $20 to send the back issue down this way. I think my colour printer wins the contract.
:\pimp3:
Originally posted by depthcharge Very much appreciated Al.They want over $20 to send the back issue down this way. I think my colour printer wins the contact.:\pimp3:
Does your colour printing machine have any other contacts?
S'all very well sampling the sounds from the original multi tracks but a bit of a cop out. why go see them play if they sound exactly as they do on record? And at every gig for that matter. For Bernard's dancing? I think not. the beauty of live gigs is the unpredictability of it all. Use the machines that make the sounds in the first place including Steve's proper drum kit. if it all goes awry so be it, at least its all LIVE. Oh and wasnt some of the joy of New Order 80-93 the seamless blend of organic acoustic sounds with electronics even if it was a bit iffy sometimes?
"Remember, we cannot return your paintings"
well a lot of the original machines are highly unreliable, lost or broken. they use computers now and it's quite a good idea to sample the original sounds rather than try to copy them. it'll never sound exactly like the record anyway but at least have a good starting point.
They weren't using a moog source or emulators onstage by the late 80's but the sounds from the newer gear then were pretty good and from reliable gear. If you compare the 80's live recordings to the 000's ones theres a marked loss in warmth so i'm not convinced about using the original master samples from hard disk, might as well have a tape running. Wasn't Barney always against pre-recording anyway? Its an interesting idea to do that with blue monday but to be honest its a bit of a bore live isnt it? Blue Monday? when you could have TPK or even Age of consent!
Go buy even a new korg micro or a second hand novation bass station - all reliable gear - i reckon you could get near enough to all the bass lines they've ever used with a few tweaks.
all that said, Roger has obviously done some excellent work and it may yet result in them playing some real suprises from the archive that the new New Order wouldnt have otherwise considered. Everything's gone green in 2005... that would be something!
"Remember, we cannot return your paintings"
To be honest I'd like to see them update and rework the old material rather than mess about with samples and tapes and the malarky. and pretending to be playing some parts which are samples/tapes etc is just sad. like PC 'playing' the piano parts on crystal or BS 'playing' the intro to regret.
i've got the albums for chrissakes, do something slightly different. To be honest i'd rather listen to the kylie take on blue monday than hear a note/sound perfect live version.
