Lads'n'lasses... C O M M U N I T Y ! ! ! ! ! ! !

How come Community comes out today and there's not a word to be read about it anywhere in here?... It's a fuckin great achievement for all of us involved, and I'm very proud to be part of it. So, ROCK ON!

Can we do an Erasure covers album next? Or better yet, can we do an album of covers of Erasure doing covers?

That's cool, don't these thing always happen in the music biz anyway, or is it just the ghost of Factory Records sticking its finger in the pie?

Originally posted by Green That's cool, don't these thing always happen in the music biz anyway, :

No

My hip replacement may be before I'm 40, and I've been putting it off for 5 years already. Football can be a very bone-wearing hobby !

Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society Is COMMUNITY a gay album ?

Does it matter?

Originally posted by Buffer Low > Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society> Is COMMUNITY a gay album ?

Does it matter?

Look, we've had all kinds of arguing going on over on BCD as a result of one of your "prickly" responses to something similar. Don't start it over here. Sometimes you just have to let things go, we all know Seb goes for the wind-up option with some of his posts, don't rise to the bait. No it doesn't matter what sort of album it is, but it also doesn't warrant a response at all.

Thanx for the warning mate.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 My hip replacement may be before I'm 40, and I've been putting it off for 5 years already. Football can be a very bone-wearing hobby !

Between your hips and your knee operations you sound like an unlucky fellow Tim. How tall do you happen to be?

Only six-one, but did the knee badly twice in the space of a year, and it just went downhill from there ! My own fault, should have got fit first before trying to play again.

Yeah I've not gotten any hip or knee problems (but I expect knee problems in the future), but damn I got serious back aches and leg sores recently. Two days after playing soccer and football barefoot for a few hours in the grass and I was still clenching the muscles 'round my vertebrae.

"All I know is.....there were rumours......that he was into field hockey players. (so I applied basically)...And the next thing you know"

may be at ears near you tonight !

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> My hip replacement may be before I'm 40, and I've been putting it off for 5 years already. Football can be a very bone-wearing hobby !

You think Andy Bell played a lot of football?!

I thought rugby was the gay sport of choice?!

Are you not confusing rugger with bugger?

Originally posted by #41 I've got it...a competition...which shall we get our paws on first...Community, or New Order's latest?!?!?!?!

Well I've already paid for one of the fuckers , so that kinda narrows it down for me . I expected the fucker this week , is there a complaints and refunds department ? A pre pay facility gave the impression of profesionalism , they've had a launch party have they not ? What was launched

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 "All I know is.....there were rumours......that he was into field hockey players. (so I applied basically)...And the next thing you know"may be at ears near you tonight !

"And the next thing you know...." Nice one. Don't think they've played that one live yet since reforming. Over at Frankblack.net they have a running tally of all the songs played on the new tour.

Originally posted by Garymac > Originally posted by #41> I've got it...a competition...which shall we get our paws on first...Community, or New Order's latest?!?!?!?!

Well I've already paid for one of the fuckers , so that kinda narrows it down for me . I expected the fucker this week , is there a complaints and refunds department ? A pre pay facility gave the impression of profesionalism , they've had a launch party have they not ? What was launched

There's a couple of promos on Ebay.

That had better be a joke !

Originally posted by #41 I can't afford to add oil to the fire...not until the Saudi's start pumping more for Dubya at least!!!:pEverything I have said so far has been a piss take...sorry if I offended ANYONE!!!even JSB!!!!

I think he actually has left,so the next competition will have to be to find the next JSB. A kind of Twat Idol if you like.

Originally posted by Spotnick Plus, the money raised before the release date helped to produce the albums themselves... hence why people had a "special price".C'mon, I think Mike feels bad enough about this one, he was pretty pissed they weren't released as promised, as you said, he had his release party without the actual album...We learn of our mistakes, but don't put oil on the fire..

So , assuming you have sold enough to proceed with production , when will the disc be released ? If the delay is a direct result of the manufacturers actions/ inaction , then surely you are due some recompense .

This may have been asked elsewhere , but please indulge me ; are the bands on profit share or are they to recieve a performance royalty ? I ask because the motivation I have for buying community is so that the artists involved earn something to further their ambition / career / hobby , however I dont know which method of payment they will recieve , so even if it's been asked , could you tell me ?

Don't know about oil on fire mate , considering the hyperbole and general build up this thing has had for the past few months , I think I'm askin a reasonable coupla questions . So I'm afraid your little yellow fella and his wagging finger , are not gonna put me off .

Originally posted by almanso Q & A- when they´ll be sent? as soon as Mike receive them, not a day longer

• recompense? what do you mean?
• profits for the bands? nah, it´s on the contract. nobody´s getting any money for this.
• can you ask questions? of course you can
• can we answer those questions? that´s what we´re doing

Well thank you Alejo , a quick response , in bold too .

When is Mike due to recieve them ? Recompense = If the people who are pressing your discs have caused a delay , then you ,as the organisers are due some recompense for the inconveniance , either in money or material i.e. some discs pressed for free . Profits for the bands , I would never have bought the disc if I had known the bands were not to recieve a penny , the promotion and links to purchase Community , made no mention of this fact . Perhaps I should not have assumed the artists would recieve a payment , how naive of me . I'm glad I can ask questions and I thank you for your answers , even if one of them has taken me unawares .

The bold was a nice touch , considerate too , my eyes aint so sharp at this time of the morning , thanks

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 That had better be a joke !

Don't you start getting prickly as well.;)

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by Buffer Low> > > > Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society> > Is COMMUNITY a gay album ?>

Does it matter?

Look, we've had all kinds of arguing going on over on BCD as a result of one of your "prickly" responses to something similar. Don't start it over here. Sometimes you just have to let things go, we all know Seb goes for the wind-up option with some of his posts, don't rise to the bait. No it doesn't matter what sort of album it is, but it also doesn't warrant a response at all. Which "prickly" response in particular? You will have to tell me, i've done so many posts, i can't remember them all. Thanx. Cheers mate.

Originally posted by ShugZV© > Originally posted by Garymac> > > > Originally posted by almanso> Q & A- when they´ll be sent? as soon as Mike receive them, not a day longer

• recompense? what do you mean?
• profits for the bands? nah, it´s on the contract. nobody´s getting any money for this.
• can you ask questions? of course you can
• can we answer those questions? that´s what we´re doing

Well thank you Alejo , a quick response , in bold too .

When is Mike due to recieve them ? Recompense = If the people who are pressing your discs have caused a delay , then you ,as the organisers are due some recompense for the inconveniance , either in money or material i.e. some discs pressed for free . Profits for the bands , I would never have bought the disc if I had known the bands were not to recieve a penny , the promotion and links to purchase Community , made no mention of this fact . Perhaps I should not have assumed the artists would recieve a payment , how naive of me . I'm glad I can ask questions and I thank you for your answers , even if one of them has taken me unawares .

The bold was a nice touch , considerate too , my eyes aint so sharp at this time of the morning , thanks

Gee, Crikey. It's all a bit Dangermac in here:D I don't think Baldy has pre-ordered me a copy, but it would be nice to know "roughly" when we hope to see the albums available (seeing is it is my civic duty to buy one ) If we have a date - one of the Cockney or Mancy wide boys can sort out a night out Well at the risk of sounding off message and /or the grumpy voice of nool , I only really saw it as a duty to buy , when I believed the bands / artists etc were gonna share any profit , so ya can have mine when it arrives , I'll post it on , we'll sort out the dollar / bevvie exchange rate as and when . I think I've posted enough on here for folks to know my stance on musicians gettin paid , and I aint comfy at the notion of Community at this point , that fact and the shifting nature of it's release have kinda soured it . I'm all for supportin music and musicians , however I cannot support a record label which intends to pay nobody , regardless of the size or nature of that label , it's philosophy is one I dont want any part of , and at the time of ordering it was a philosophy I knew nothing about . Like I said earlier , my naivette , I thought the artists were gettin a share , I just didn't know how they were gettin a share. Unfortunately I was under the impression that a NO/JD tribute label would be a bit more Factory like in it's contract , ie, after costs and overheads are met , the ' spoils ' are divided up . I know enough musicians who struggle to get paid as it is , so I dont want to add to that scenario , and yes some will say " but it's only an amateur label " , I'm sorry I dont believe any of those involved took an amateur approach , be they amateur , semi-pro or professional . Just my own stance this, my personal take on things ,sorry, but there you go

Originally posted by Spotnick > > > > > > C'mon, everybody that followed the project since day 1 knows about those things

I joined these boards in Dec 03 , so I can assure you not everybody knows about these things , there is no mention of it on the link to purchase the disc Incidentaly , considering at one point the three principal characters involved , yourself , Mike and Alejo , were hoping to secure flight tickets as a result of the events myself and Tim were planning ( a situation on which I made my position very clear ) , then it would be reasonable for me to assume this was a project, whose intention at some point, would be makin money. If you recall , the only way I wanted our live events to work ,( hence the refusal of the flight tickets ), was the plan to put any profits back to those involved at a musician / artist level or to re-invest in a bigger / better event

Good point actually - as a Musicians' Union member I am entitled to payment for all live and studio work that is subsequently sold on. Was the issue of royalties to Warner Chappell ever sorted ?

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Good point actually - as a Musicians' Union member I am entitled to payment for all live and studio work that is subsequently sold on. Was the issue of royalties to Warner Chappell ever sorted ?

Exactly , this is the performance royalty I mentioned , is it the same as a mechanical royalty ? Or is that another issue ? You mention Warner Chappell Tim , what is that situation regarding ? I've not seen this mentioned before . I'm very rusty on M.U. Policy though

]

But then again, splitting so-called "profits" in 16 will give a ridiculous amount to each band.

.

THAT has gotta be the single most stupid reason I have ever read for NOT payin a musician , the subtext of which seems to be , we'll keep all the money, we dont want to upset them with a small amount , and surely the e.p. is an even easier thing to split ?

Essentialy , the artists involved are gonna earn the same amount of cash as they would if this was a free download ? Or available as a ' boot ' ( that the right term ? in this case ) Like I say, that is not a scenario I would ever support

Originally posted by Garymac > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> Good point actually - as a Musicians' Union member I am entitled to payment for all live and studio work that is subsequently sold on. Was the issue of royalties to Warner Chappell ever sorted ?

Exactly , this is the performance royalty I mentioned , is it the same as a mechanical royalty ? Or is that another issue ? You mention Warner Chappell Tim , what is that situation regarding ? I've not seen this mentioned before . I'm very rusty on M.U. Policy though

Basically, Warner Chappell (having bought out BeMusic and Fractured Music) are entitled to receive royalty payment on each of their tracks recorded that makes it onto the album. Depending on the deal negotiated between WenOrder and Warner Chappell (and I am assuming here that as we've got this far, a deal has been struck since I mentioned this right at the beginning of the project and was assured it would be taken care of), Warner Chappell could also expect to receive a percentage of the profits from this venture. If they haven't been contacted and the copyright issue agreed, there is a very real danger that each of the artists on the record could be faced with a copyright infringement claim by Warner Chappell as soon as the album is released. As none of the artists will be receiving a penny (this was a competition to be on the album, the prize being elected to the final tracklisting), this could cause a few problems to say the least, with all of us suing WenOrder's company ! There is also the issue of these tracks being played on radio (and that includes college radio) - both the performers and the writers are entitled to receive payment.....

As for the EP, that should be an entirely different matter, and I'm ever so slightly concerned about the legal aspects of this. There's quite a bit of innocence and naivite floating around these parts it seems when it comes to the music business.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by Garymac> > > > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> > Good point actually - as a Musicians' Union member I am entitled to payment for all live and studio work that is subsequently sold on. Was the issue of royalties to Warner Chappell ever sorted ?>

Exactly , this is the performance royalty I mentioned , is it the same as a mechanical royalty ? Or is that another issue ? You mention Warner Chappell Tim , what is that situation regarding ? I've not seen this mentioned before . I'm very rusty on M.U. Policy though

Basically, Warner Chappell (having bought out BeMusic and Fractured Music) are entitled to receive royalty payment on each of their tracks recorded that makes it onto the album. Depending on the deal negotiated between WenOrder and Warner Chappell (and I am assuming here that as we've got this far, a deal has been struck since I mentioned this right at the beginning of the project and was assured it would be taken care of), Warner Chappell could also expect to receive a percentage of the profits from this venture. If they haven't been contacted and the copyright issue agreed, there is a very real danger that each of the artists on the record could be faced with a copyright infringement claim by Warner Chappell as soon as the album is released. As none of the artists will be receiving a penny (this was a competition to be on the album, the prize being elected to the final tracklisting), this could cause a few problems to say the least, with all of us suing WenOrder's company ! There is also the issue of these tracks being played on radio (and that includes college radio) - both the performers and the writers are entitled to receive payment.....

Thanks for the reply Tim , some potential horrific scenarios here , if the t's aint crossed and the i's dotted , I thought that a performance of a track should generate a royalty to both performer and author . And hasn't it already recieved some college radio play ? Or am I crossing wires here , Kamar is a radio dj isn't he ?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Which is why ShugZV's gonna burn this for me. I wouldn't want you all falling out over where my monies should go too!

One expects your monies to go barwards fella , barwards

Originally posted by Garymac Thanks for the reply Tim , some potential horrific scenarios here , if the t's aint crossed and the i's dotted , I thought that a performance of a track should generate a royalty to both performer and author . And hasn't it already recieved some college radio play ? Or am I crossing wires here , Kamar is a radio dj isn't he ?

Yep, he is. I brought this up at the time. Nowt so deaf as ears that don't want to hear, as Fred Elliott might say, I said Fred Elliott might say. While it's always nice to get your records played on the radio, I'd be happier if it was all watertight before they got played. Sometimes I wonder how well this whole thing has been thought through, if it isn't the changing of the rules as we went along, it's the failure to meet the legal and contractual obligations.....

I will wait till kingdom come to get the Community LP and EP, even though i have never bought anything on-line before. Will see how i go.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by Garymac> > > Thanks for the reply Tim , some potential horrific scenarios here , if the t's aint crossed and the i's dotted , I thought that a performance of a track should generate a royalty to both performer and author . And hasn't it already recieved some college radio play ? Or am I crossing wires here , Kamar is a radio dj isn't he ?

Yep, he is. I brought this up at the time. Nowt so deaf as ears that don't want to hear, as Fred Elliott might say, I said Fred Elliott might say. While it's always nice to get your records played on the radio, I'd be happier if it was all watertight before they got played. Sometimes I wonder how well this whole thing has been thought through, if it isn't the changing of the rules as we went along, it's the failure to meet the legal and contractual obligations.....

Well I hope nobody gets there fingers burned , well meaning is not really a term in Warners lexicon , one would imagine . What about the lads who have a record contract , I certainly hope there are gonna be no negative aspects for them .

Good stuff on the copyright Mike, and thanks for keeping us in the picture on the delays.

What's the plan now on the UK distribution ? You didn't get back to me about us taking a batch to sell here.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Basically, Warner Chappell (having bought out BeMusic and Fractured Music) are entitled to receive royalty payment on each of their tracks recorded that makes it onto the album. Depending on the deal negotiated between WenOrder and Warner Chappell (and I am assuming here that as we've got this far, a deal has been struck since I mentioned this right at the beginning of the project and was assured it would be taken care of), Warner Chappell could also expect to receive a percentage of the profits from this venture.

I don't remember all the details of the discussion we had over at the Community-forum, but I believe that the licensing issues were resolved. The magic number is 500. For a release of 500 copies or less, only a simple license is required. AFAIK, that type of licence can easily be secured through some centralized agency/company, which then pays Warner-Chappell and other publishing companies. IIRC, this was done for Community.

As for playing the songs on the radio: that's not the headache of the label, is it? I would imagine that it's the radio-station who is responsible to report what's being played. For small stations, there's often a flat-fee to be paid. At least as far as I know.

If there is a profit for Community, I'd imagine that it'd go back into NOOL. After all, we are a community... ;)

/TLV

And of course my dial-up is so slow that Mike replied before me... Oh well.

Mike: if you're interested, I could send a copy to the Swedish radio (national broadcast) - they're pretty good at playing "different" music.

/TLV

I think to be fair it has to be a bit more professional than that, it ain't a case of handing over a batch of CDs to sell down the market ! Any attempt at distribution with a view to increasing sales would need to be properly structured, assuming selling the item is a priority ?

I think that Wen, Alejo and Nick thought that this would be a cool thing to do, probably never even thinking of things like profits.

I, for one, would like to thank them for doing it. This project was a great idea and produced great results. These guys put in a lot of effort to make this thing happen. I can't wait to have my copies, but I can understand that things have come up to delay the delivery.

Unless I'm wrong, nobody involved in this is in the music business. So they're learning along the way. Why don't the complainers try to cut them a little slack.

Thanks again, guys. The whole ride (up and down) has been fun!

As regards the delays, I'd just like to say that it doesn't bother me too much. When I placed my order, it did occur to me that things might not go exactly to schedule. This is not meant in a bad way, just, as has already been mentioned, this was a first for nearly everyone involved, so it was always a possibility. And as it happens, the delays are out of Mike's hands anyway. I don't doubt that it will be worth the wait.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Which is why ShugZV's gonna burn this for me. I wouldn't want you all falling out over where my monies should go too!

You are such a tight arse ! WHERE@S MY F*CKIN' MONEY!!!?

Originally posted by manumatic Unless I'm wrong, nobody involved in this is in the music business.

Speak for yourself honey. I have and always will be in the biz......

Its my life, you bitch!!!!! :bag:

Originally posted by Doggy Speak for yourself honey. I have and always will be in the biz......Its my life, you bitch!!!!! :bag:

Sorry. I MEANT those putting the project together - NOT the contributors themselves. Unless, of course, you are helping the guys put this CD together. If that's the case then I'm incorrect, and apologize.

Bloody hell...

Well, I reckon all of my questions have been dealt with , thanks for the prompt reply and refund , WenOrder

I think we should show a litle patience as to when Community is being released, i don't care how long it takes, just as long as it does comes out. i'm prepared to wait.

Sure, red 'x's are always lovely.;) Page temporarily unavailable at this time though, though I used the good ol' cut and paste method as well.

Just kidding, really, here's congratulation post to the work that you three have done on this project, in the grand scheme of things, waiting another week or two wasn't gonna do me any harm. Massive cheers

FOOKIN ELL !!! i,ve just read the last four pages of this post from start to finish,took me quite a while ! what the f**ks happening ? why all the bickering and nastyness? stupid question really. f**king hell ,i dont think some people actually realise all the hard work that has been put in by the guys to get this project started and finished. i didnt have anything to do with this project,didnt vote etc. but i have watched from the original concept to the nearly finished article. there was never any question in my mind that i would not buy the album & ep. it does exactly what is says on the tin - community! a neworderonline community project for the neworderonline community ! An outstanding tribute to one of the best bands in the world! everyone who has worked on this project deserve to be honoured,in deed they will be honoured,every time we play the community album & ep. this should be a very proud day for all the peoples involved in this project and for neworderonline ! to the people who have been backbiting,bitching,moaning and sniping then i say this . **** off to another site. other sites would simply not put up with any of this bitching.

to the people who havent bought it; buy it!

it has been made for you by your online friends,people who you communicate with everyday on neworderonline.

thats me done,peace!

p.s look forward to community 2 next year!

What can I say!: "Good call as people used to say all those years ago" ;)

I'm itching to get my hands on it. Soooo happy now I preordered :D

And Mike, Almanso, Nicos...well done!!!

:barf:

(Sorry, just a little too excited there... )

Good grief, what a low thread this is overall... I mean, we joined on just for the sheer fun of re-doing a song we love, that belongs to a band we love... and it was just to say "We did it!" to pay tribute to a band that meant a lot to us. Would George and I have done an album of New Order music alone? Or even have covered a song without this tribute?? Not certain. We KNEW from the beginning there wasn't "payment" in terms of money, but it was exposure enough to be on the compilation for us. George has been on compilations a few times, one on Invisible Records, one on EST (no longer around) records, and both release dates were a year and a HALF past the release dates, so in all considerations, this compilation came off like clock-work, and everyone should be immensely proud of their accomplishments.
AND George gave a lot of time in mastering the CD AND didn't get paid for it because... he loves New Order and was just interested in being such a part of this whole project... just to have George Cicci from Singularity Studios MORGANTOWN F***ING WEST VIRGINIA do this was cool enough... :) So......

1. We knew... no money.
2. I know the battle over this is over, but just felt incensed to add a few cents worth.
3. Generally speaking... this project as an "amateur" project went out on time (or close enough!)
4. We've enjoyed ourselves! If we were to be paid and THEN were not compensated, well... that'd be a different matter, but it wasn't. Sometimes, art for art's sake is ok. NOT ALL THE TIME, but sometimes... We know that ALL TOO WELL. Cheers!

...just to have George Cicci from Singularity Studios MORGANTOWN F***ING WEST VIRGINIA do this was cool enough...

Hang on to that ego there !

Rach, well said, seconded ( and thirded on behalf of my silent hairy partner ( that's tune partner !!)). For us it was about time we got something put out under our own name, and somehow the fact that it is a NO/JD song is just trippy as we would not be makin tunes without the boys effect on us.

Det, dude, think you picked her up backwards mate, think she was more meaning it was great to have $RANDOM_DUDE from $RANDOM_ARSE_END_OF_NOWHERE_BACKWATER do an international release. She can dry her eyes though....cos if the universe ever needs an enema...it'll be going right here in Bangor N. Ireland. :-)

Oh and while we're here, how funny is it to be talking about adequate compensation, and good business standards, and professionalism, and proper music industry practice..... "McFLYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!"....read the URL folks....and take just a moment to let the name "New Order" float around your head to see if it links itself with any of the above concepts.

Guys, again, thanks for doing this. This was a great project. I can't believe we'll hav the CDs in our hands soon. (tear)

Originally posted by Steve Campbell Oh and while we're here, how funny is it to be talking about adequate compensation, and good business standards, and professionalism, and proper music industry practice..... "McFLYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!"....read the URL folks....and take just a moment to let the name "New Order" float around your head to see if it links itself with any of the above concepts.

Just what I was thinking. Compensation? Musicians Union rates? It's a fan project. Hats off to the organisers for a job well done.

will most definitely NOT be using this one as a coaster.

thanks guys. can't wait!

I'm very happy to be on the cd. :D