Rivals with New Order?

Surprised nobody on this thread has mentioned the pile of crap that is U2.I havent got a problem with The Cure but surely if any New Order fan should hate a band it would be U2.They took Joy Divisions sound, diluted it and made millions out of it.Bongo has even accepted they owe their career to JD.Hooky has touched on this a few times in the past also.Like Tony Wilson said of the 1985 Live Aid gig - "Bono was good but Ian would have done it much better".Unlucky Bongo!!

Originally posted by Voice Of Treason . Surprised nobody on this thread has mentioned the pile of crap that is U2.I havent got a problem with The Cure but surely if any New Order fan should hate a band it would be U2.They took Joy Divisions sound, diluted it and made millions out of it.Bongo has even accepted they owe their career to JD.Hooky has touched on this a few times in the past also.Like Tony Wilson said of the 1985 Live Aid gig - "Bono was good but Ian would have done it much better".Unlucky Bongo!!

Bongo, I love it I'm a big fan of the Great Pop Things comic strips, and credit Capt. Beefheart for coming up with that one. Seems like Bongo, just before Rattle And Hum, rang up the Captain to collaborate with them on the album and Beefheart, retired from the music biz, rang up his manager and wanted to know who this Bongo guy was.

I like the cure, a lot. At no point in my life was there a comparison or a "contest" between bands. I couldn't care less about that stuff. I just love good music.

I think the cure should lose the makeup and hair now. They are a well respected band that has transcended the "80's band" stereotype. Continuing with the hair and crap is silly now.

the cure v. new order? i'm torn. radiohead v. new order? radiohead. but then again thom & co. rock the socks off any british band with any current relevance. i love new order - but my love for them figures to be more ridden with sentimentality . musically though, no one can touch radiohead at this moment.

I thought this went back to the mid 80's when The Cure er.. "borrowed" substantial amounts of Blue Monday and "Love Vigilantes" to make their cover versions called "The Walk" and "Inbetween Days"

Originally posted by Adrian Ko the cure v. new order? i'm torn. radiohead v. new order? radiohead. but then again thom & co. rock the socks off any british band with any current relevance. i love new order - but my love for them figures to be more ridden with sentimentality . musically though, no one can touch radiohead at this moment.

not sure if they are going off the boil or going to be disappearing up their own arse at some point. I agree around Kid A/Amnesiac time they were superb and their live work was brilliant, the perfect mesh of electronics and guitars, flipping between the two, messing with the gear. Like an early New Order!

but after they have deconstructed everything they almost need to find a niche again, you can't continue to be 'different' you are going to run out of ideas and just take anything (aka Morning Bell #2)

Originally posted by Spencer Packer Guess what else...I also love those boys from Basildon called Depeche Mode! Curse me now! I am evil! How can I possibly like three different british bands?

I was in Basildon yesterday. It really is a shit hole.

a bit like this place: http://www.sheppeyscum.com

What a shite thread.

Should have took my advice on that Gays and goths forum.

maybe some of these bands like The Cure were jealous that New Order succeeded even after Joy Division, succeeded with a totally leftfield indie label run by a fool, succeeded without the makeup and posturing and doing the normal publicity and standard interviews, succeeded without MTV.

I don't dislike The Cure, Robert Smith is a fine songwriter and had nice records in the 80s, thou I don't listen to them anymore. Smith should have retired after he made all that money with the mediocre Wish, cause he was descending into total self-parody. Smith has painted himself into a corner and can't get out.

This rivalry between the Cure and New Order is really fucking stupid and childish, and it seems to me that its mainly a UK thing.

Here is the US, people who love New Order also generally also love The Cure, Depeche Mode, PIL, Talking Heads, ect.

Not many people consider the Cure to be a Goth band here. The Cure in the Us is really popular amongst a lot of indie kids and college students. They are considered to be a very important and hugely influential band here.

The same goes for New Order and Depeche Mode. its thier music that matters. The 3 of the bands have been very influential and are now regarded as godfathers of indie and alt rock.

I love New Order, with a passion. But The Cure do ahve a lot mroe varitey in thier music, just listen to Pornography, Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me, Disintigration, and Bloodflowers. All are very different albums.

Robert Smith is a far superior lyricist to bernard Sumner. Martin Gore from Depeche Mode is also a far better lyricsit and a brilliant songwriter as well. Take any DM song and play it on piano or acoutstic guitar and it will sound beautiful. You cant do that with a lot of New Order songs.

New Order made great dance music that was amazingly emotional and had a lot if interesting electronic experimentation going on.

Depeche Mode combined industrial sound palletes with classic pop songwriting to create and incredibly complex and diverse sound. Listen to Black Celebration and Violator. The songwriting and production qualities of these records are amazing.

The Cure and Robert Smith wrote tons of amazing emotional songs, songs that speak of fragile beauty, love, loss, and aging, getting old. Disintigration and Bloodflowers are deep, emotional albums that take me on a journey and remind me of the pain I ahve felt in my life, but also how I grew from it. Thousands of others feel thios way too.

For those of you that say New Order are better than Dm and the Cure because they are on an indie label and made it in the US are also wrong.

DM is signed to Mute, an indie label. The Cure was signed to Ficiton, and indie label.

Depeche Mode sold out the Rosebowl with no MTV or radio support in America. Same with the Cure. And yes, New Order did it too.

Having seen DM, New Order, and The Cure live, NO are definately the weakest of the three.

A lot of you dont even have good reasons to dislike DM or the Cure. You are all like small minded ignorant homophobic jock thugs, the type of people that the intelligent gay dance club members of New Order prolly regar d as ignorant pricks.

"Oh, lets slag off the Cure because fat Bob is fag! Lets slag off Depeche Mode cause they wear make up! Oooooooohhhhhh! We are so manly and macho, lets go dance to a band that takes its inspiration from gay disco, NEW ORDER!"

Please.

And I am sorry, but I dont see how the Cue and DM rip off New Order that much. Soemtimes there are similarities, but thats cause all three bands share influences and mine the same territory.

I dont think True Faith and Enjoy the Silence have anything in common other than being great dance tunes with good lyrics.

And if you are gonna accuse The Cure and DM for ripping new Order off, youd better start accusing New Order of ripping of Kraftwerk and Giorogio Moroder.

Also, Depeche Mode started experimenting with electrincs and synths before New Order did. In 1980, DM were a full fledged synth band. Before New Order were. Yes, Dms early records arent that good, but Black Celebration and Violator and Music for the Masses and Exciter are moer well produced and emotional and coherent than any New Order album with the exception of technique.

New Order are a great singles band. Dm are a great albums band. The Cure are somewhere in between.

All three bands are amazing, and here in the US, we judge new order, DM, and the Cure on the basis of their MUSIC, not what they look like.

Seriously, people, grow up a little.

By the way, Ive got big teased hair, and I am the songwriter in a band thats influenced by new Order, The Cure, JD, and Dm, as well as Nick Cave, Patti Smith, Talking Heads, PIL, ect.

Im also a respected and successful photographer.

And I am from a workign class family. Blue collar all the way. And you know what, my beer guzzling football loving factory working uncle loves New Order, the Cure, Depeche Mode, Iggy Pop, and The Pixies. Imagine that. Being blue collar and workign class doesnt mean you have to be a macho asshole.

But, I digress. I love you all, and your comments make my day more interesting. And Temptation makes me cry sometimes. Seriously, it reminds me of an ex girlfriend.

Please excuse all of my typos.

Zachery

WOOPS!

I meant to say up there that the members of New order love gay dance club music. Not that they were gan dance clubbers. I know they are all married and what not.

My typing really sucks.

If this wasn't such a tired subject (including basically all of the points you've mentioned), you would've just opened up a whole can of something or other. I agree with you on some points but not others (e.g., DM are a great album band? PLEASE.). Too bored to go on....

Take any DM song and play it on piano or acoutstic guitar and it will sound beautiful. You cant do that with a lot of New Order songs.

Try playing "Master and Servant" on a piano. Now try playing "Bizarre Love Triangle". No offense, but you on crack, boy.

Also, Depeche Mode started experimenting with electrincs and synths before New Order did. In 1980, DM were a full fledged synth band. Before New Order were.

True, but Depeche Mode were pure synth-pop. New Order were more electronica and techno-rock than DM were. Later on they also became more influential on house. DM, on the other hand, went more industrial and hard-edged. So basically, the two bands started from completely different places and took completely different paths, so why are we even comparing them?

Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by I Invented NewOrder> Hey...while we're at it, let's talk about how great P. Diddy is?!?!?!

can we, please? :D

i quite like the cure, but on this site it appears that they, as my students would say, 'have been served.'

I need to see that awful movie You Got Served

Originally posted by Mr Ben > Originally posted by Adrian Ko> the cure v. new order? i'm torn. radiohead v. new order? radiohead. but then again thom & co. rock the socks off any british band with any current relevance. i love new order - but my love for them figures to be more ridden with sentimentality . musically though, no one can touch radiohead at this moment.

not sure if they are going off the boil or going to be disappearing up their own arse at some point. I agree around Kid A/Amnesiac time they were superb and their live work was brilliant, the perfect mesh of electronics and guitars, flipping between the two, messing with the gear. Like an early New Order!

but after they have deconstructed everything they almost need to find a niche again, you can't continue to be 'different' you are going to run out of ideas and just take anything (aka Morning Bell #2)

I agree, I was a big fan of Kid A and Amnesiac, but their more recent album pretty much is pure shit. Thom will eventually get tired and break up the band and make some strange solo albums. That'll be the end of Radiohead.

Originally posted by Ghost is luminous I like the cure, a lot. At no point in my life was there a comparison or a "contest" between bands. I couldn't care less about that stuff. I just love good music.I think the cure should lose the makeup and hair now. They are a well respected band that has transcended the "80's band" stereotype. Continuing with the hair and crap is silly now.

So The Cure should pull what KISS did in the 80's?

Originally posted by Smack My Finch Up oh for goodness sake...why do we keep going round and round about this one???fine...some of you like the cure...you kids are entitled to like what you want...some of us don't like the cure, and a bunch of people telling me how great they are isn't going to make me, or anybody else on here change our minds...could we possibly beat this dead horse any more...fooking hell, we've beat it so much it's turned into Michael Jackson...

The question is, who would you rather leave your kid next to, Fat Bob or Michael Jackson?

just how fat IS Bob? any good pics on the net?

from what i've seen he Bob looks like one of his poser fans now, unable to step out of costume. its all come full circle.

how about a friendly contest between Barney and Bob? see who can get back into shape? maybe Tony Wilson can make a show about it

I really don't get all of the rivalry stuff. Surely arguing about who is better live, on single, on album (etc) is a little bit pointless because a lot is down to personal preference in the end.

I admit I’m one of the people who have always considered the Cure to be a bit gothic, but that probably is down to a lack of understanding on my part because I, admittedly, don’t know a great deal about them and they are not my kind of band.

I really couldn’t say whether they are musically any better/worse than New Order or Depeche Mode because, like I’ve already said, I don’t know that much about them but I do know that, regardless of whether they are superior lyrically, live (etc), I’d personally rather watch or listen to New Order every time.

That’s just my own preference though. Fair play to those who love the music of all three.

I’m not sure how these bands keep getting compared, or viewed as rivals, because I personally don’t regard their musical styles, or images, as similar at all. I suppose it’s probably because they are all from the same musical era and have been around for a long time.

At Subhuman

quote:

Take any DM song and play it on piano or acoutstic guitar and it will sound beautiful. You cant do that with a lot of New Order songs.

Try playing "Master and Servant" on a piano. Now try playing "Bizarre Love Triangle". No offense, but you on crack, boy.

Well, yes you are right there. Master and Servant isn t a very good song, and Bizzaree Love triangle does sound good on piano.

But other DM songs, like Never Let Me Down Again, Walking in My Shoes, Home, The Bottom Line, World Full of Nothing, In Your Room, and The Sweetst Perfection all sound bautiful on piano.

Martin Gore writes all of DMs songs on piano or acoustic guitar. Hence most of them tanslate.

In LA I saw Martin Gore perform a Piano version of Enjoy the Silence that was beautiful.

New Order, DM and The Cure are all fuckign brillaint for different reasons and I love them all equally.

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by AgentWood> > > > Originally posted by I Invented NewOrder> > Hey...while we're at it, let's talk about how great P. Diddy is?!?!?! >

can we, please? :D

i quite like the cure, but on this site it appears that they, as my students would say, 'have been served.'

I need to see that awful movie You Got Served So you can learn to break dance?

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Smack My Finch Up> oh for goodness sake...why do we keep going round and round about this one???> > fine...some of you like the cure...you kids are entitled to like what you want...> > some of us don't like the cure, and a bunch of people telling me how great they are isn't going to make me, or anybody else on here change our minds...> > could we possibly beat this dead horse any more...fooking hell, we've beat it so much it's turned into Michael Jackson...

The question is, who would you rather leave your kid next to, Fat Bob or Michael Jackson? Is there really a contest? Robert Smith is not a child molester and has not had extravagent amounts of plastic surgury. If he was, don't you think Barney would've said, "When I was a very small boy, Robert Smith played with me"? Since this is NOOL, this seems rather appropriate for the moment:

does anyone get tired of 6000 long threads...i think not, becuase this is one of them

my opion, is that, everyband sucks and so do you for likeing them, have great day!;)

What's this rivals business. Let's go with contempoaries. Why has no one mentioned the Psycadelic Furs yet?

fuck all this retarded argument. really. fuck it all to hell. n.o. don't compare to radiohead. entienden mis amigos retardados?? you don't think so? well, go to hell then...

OK, my 2 penn'th........... Musically the Cure and New order have some common ground ( as do NO and Depeche, the Fall, and any number of Brit bands of the era), BUT the main difference is.

NO: turn up for gig in whatever clother were easiest to reach crawling out of the shower that morning, if it's an important gig, comb your hair ( anyone who wants to argue this, kindly review PFD before engaging your keyboard).

Cure: Spend 6 hours i hair and another 3 in make-up, throw a J-lo if the image aint just so, Fop about with airs and graces, behaving so pretentiously, that even Morrisey would be saying "Jesus, yer man's a right C*nt". OH and don't forget loads of stae school dramatic looks and romantic hand gestures.

In short The cure had cool ( if you were into that sort of thing) and New Order didn't need cool, they simply didn;t know what cool was, and didn't need to care cos they pretty well defined it. I've never been a fan of all the bunk in the music biz[1], and NO had none of it.

OH, and the Cure nosedived faster then NO, it took NO until 2001 to make a rough album, the Cure were blowing goats by the late 80's.

But yeah, I still have starin at the sea round here somewhere.

RE: Depeche, same again, they learned to suck to0 quick after some blindingly good tunes.....and they did that NO rip off....err the one where the synth basically pretends to be Hooky.

[1] Unless it's done right, like for instance the ZTT label that had FGTH, Art of Noise and Propaganda ( and in later years 808 state)

Originally posted by Spencer Packer "America is not the world".

OMG, shut up, they'll hear you. Can you still say that over there???????? Aren't you worried you'll end up in camp X-ray under the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act?

Well done though, I'l remember you the next time I feel like saying anything about "all yanks......" :-)

i love The Cure, i love New Order/Joy Division. i think there is nothing wrong with that... i think i agree with one of the other posters that many people can't stomach Robert Smith's signature look and doesn't really give the music a chance. i'm not talking about the hit singles one would hear on the radio but a lot of The Cure's output on albums are excellent. i'm sure i'm gonna get replys like "well... i've heard enough of The Cure to make a decision that i don't like them.. bla bla bla" but knowing "Friday I'm In Love," "Love Song," "The Walk," and "Inbetween Days" is not enough.

i'm sorry but i just don't agree that if i like one band i can't like the other one...

/rant :)

anyway... i think both Barney and Robert are great lyricists, just in different styles. Barney is definately the more oblique and cryptic... Robert is more poetic and straightforward. mind you both songwriters had their share of really bad lyrics though... ;)

Originally posted by Steve Campbell > Originally posted by Spencer Packer> "America is not the world".

OMG, shut up, they'll hear you. Can you still say that over there???????? Aren't you worried you'll end up in camp X-ray under the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act?

Well done though, I'l remember you the next time I feel like saying anything about "all yanks......" :-)

Don't even get me started on the Patriot Act. The US Attorney General John Ashcroft, the father of the Patriot Act is a damn fool!