Rivals with New Order? — Forum Archive

5 Jul 2004, 21:43

Alomanso,

All of the New Order songs you mentioned can be played on piano, its true, And acutally your reptty presumtuious,not too mention arrogant, to think that I wouldnt know that; Because I have tried to play a lot of NO sonsg on piano. I am a musician myself.

And if all you know of the Cure is stuff like Love Cats and Friday Im in Love, you dont know anything about he Cure. Most of thier singles are not even close to the best of their work.

For good Cure lyrics, check out songs like "Disintigration", "The Figurehead", "The Same Dee Water As You", "Want", "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea, "End, "Where the Birds Sing" and "39" and you'll find soem really complex and emotional well written amd metaphoric lyrics.

As for NO, I think Barny can be hot or mis, lyrically. But when he is on, he is brilliant. "True Faith", "Blue Monday", "Sunrise", Bizarre Love Triangle, All the songs on Technique, "The Perfect Kiss, "Regret", and "Ruined in a Day" all have good lyrics.

Z

6 Jul 2004, 00:36

The Cure aren't. You will still die.

6 Jul 2004, 01:15

Originally posted by Zachery Starkey Alomanso,

ok, first spell my nickname right

All of the New Order songs you mentioned can be played on piano, its true, And acutally your reptty presumtuious,not too mention arrogant, to think that I wouldnt know that; Because I have tried to play a lot of NO sonsg on piano. I am a musician myself.

good for you! :clap: :rolleyes: presumptuous and arrogant, ah? it wasn´t my intention but now that you mention it i could be all that since i´ve been playing all NO catalogue on my piano and guitar since i was 10. so go figure!

And if all you know of the Cure is stuff like Love Cats and Friday Im in Love, you dont know anything about he Cure. Most of thier singles are not even close to the best of their work.

for your information not only i have ALL cure records but i also have some singles too so i know what i´m talking about. i used to be a huge cure fan after i became a NO fan. AND i used to play cure songs on my piano when i was 7 too so i can say i have experience in that subject too. now who´s presumptuous and arrogant now? :brow:

For good Cure lyrics, check out songs like "Disintigration", "The Figurehead", "The Same Dee Water As You", "Want", "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea, "End, "Where the Birds Sing" and "39" and you'll find soem really complex and emotional well written amd metaphoric lyrics.

i know all those songs and their lyrics but Smith´s lyrics never apealed to me. sorry. :shrug:

6 Jul 2004, 01:30

Originally posted by Zachery Starkey Alomanso,All of the New Order songs you mentioned can be played on piano, its true, And acutally your reptty presumtuious,not too mention arrogant, to think that I wouldnt know that; Because I have tried to play a lot of NO sonsg on piano. I am a musician myself.And if all you know of the Cure is stuff like Love Cats and Friday Im in Love, you dont know anything about he Cure. Most of thier singles are not even close to the best of their work. For good Cure lyrics, check out songs like "Disintigration", "The Figurehead", "The Same Dee Water As You", "Want", "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea, "End, "Where the Birds Sing" and "39" and you'll find soem really complex and emotional well written amd metaphoric lyrics. As for NO, I think Barny can be hot or mis, lyrically. But when he is on, he is brilliant. "True Faith", "Blue Monday", "Sunrise", Bizarre Love Triangle, All the songs on Technique, "The Perfect Kiss, "Regret", and "Ruined in a Day" all have good lyrics.Z

Z ? Zzzzzzz more like :sleep:

6 Jul 2004, 01:54

Can someone explain why it matters whether you can play something on a piano or acoustic guitar or not?

We're not in the middle of a 'real music' debate are we?

6 Jul 2004, 08:40

Originally posted by DC We're not in the middle of a 'real music' debate are we?

Not with The Cure and Depish being mentioned :eek3:

:D

6 Jul 2004, 08:56

Originally posted by DC Can someone explain why it matters whether you can play something on a piano or acoustic guitar or not? We're not in the middle of a 'real music' debate are we?

sure, Bob Smith and Gore write (wrote) in more of a traditional songwriting style most of the time than Barney, no big mystery there that they might be easier to translate to piano/ acoustic guitar/ bagpipes, etc. maybe Barney didnt want to write that way, or couldn't, i dunno.

I've always prefered the NO/ JD and The Fall's awkwardness and quirkiness

6 Jul 2004, 11:52

Originally posted by ShugZV© > Originally posted by DC> > We're not in the middle of a 'real music' debate are we?

Not with The Cure and Depish being mentioned :eek3:

:D

what about PSB?!?!?! :ignore:

oh...and your favorite band....Erasure!!!! :uhoh:

6 Jul 2004, 16:22

Funniest thing in this thread so far, though I'm sure it wasn't intentional is that:

Alejo said he was playing 'Cure' songs on the piano since he was 7, but he was playing 'New Order' on the piano at the age of 10.

Doesn't that make you wonder if perhaps you have to be more mature or have a greater understanding of the subtleties of composition before you 'graduate' to New Order? :laugh:

Keep going, Alejo, I LOVE your version of 'Angel Dust' - PLEASE carry on with the New Order covers, rather than Cure stuff!

:beer:

6 Jul 2004, 19:43

That Sheepyscum link is a riot.

I was going to reply that my dog can fart better lyrics than Martin Gore. Smith has written a lot of shit since Disintegration as well as a few gems. Sure, the Cure perform better live than NO. Who gives a fuck?? But when NO is hot, they are heaven.

I only listen to the cure live in concert, not even on the stereo anymore.

6 Jul 2004, 19:43

That Sheepyscum link is a riot.

I was going to reply that my dog can fart better lyrics than Martin Gore. Smith has written a lot of shit since Disintegration as well as a few gems. Sure, the Cure perform better live than NO. Who gives a fuck?? But when NO is hot, they are heaven.

I only listen to the cure live in concert, not even on the stereo anymore.

7 Jul 2004, 02:32

To me New Order are the only band mentioned on this thread that have consistently created and recreated their own (musical) world with every release. Virtually everything they've done could only have been done by them, and has something new and unexpected about it.

The Cure are, and really always have been, a pretty conventional rock band. Bob's pop stylings do work out from time to time (Close To You, In Between Days - yes, yes - it's a rip off - so what?) but are in the main pretty unconvincing - e.g the excruciating Lovecats, or Hot Hot Hot.. I enjoyed the first 3 albums, but you get the sense that they're more comfortable doing a 7-minute dirge and since around 1989 they've really been just another rock b(r)and. Take away Bob's voice and it could be anyone.

I love v.early Depeche Mode. Dreaming Of Me is fucking fantastic - sounds like they just learned to play the synths that day and are still in wonder at being able to string a couple of chords together. When Vince Clarke left they went downhill fast - essentially they have nothing whatsoever to say and their attempts at quasi-'industrial' stylings coupled with Gahan's cliched rock star antics are deeply boring. A truly dreadful band,

So back to New Order - who else has done what they have done. I think the only artists who have defined their own world to the same extent would be Brian Eno, Bowie's 'Berlin' albums and Kraftwerk. But they're not really 'rivals'. Actually the idea of 'rivals' is daft.

Wait... I forgot the PSBs - pop genius all the way. Still good, yet they've stagnated a little over the last decade. The first 15 or so singles are absolutely amazing though.

7 Jul 2004, 03:53

Originally posted by DC To me New Order are the only band mentioned on this thread that have consistently created and recreated their own (musical) world with every release. Virtually everything they've done could only have been done by them, and has something new and unexpected about it. The Cure are, and really always have been, a pretty conventional rock band. Bob's pop stylings do work out from time to time (Close To You, In Between Days - yes, yes - it's a rip off - so what?) but are in the main pretty unconvincing - e.g the excruciating Lovecats, or Hot Hot Hot.. I enjoyed the first 3 albums, but you get the sense that they're more comfortable doing a 7-minute dirge and since around 1989 they've really been just another rock b(r)and. Take away Bob's voice and it could be anyone. I love v.early Depeche Mode. Dreaming Of Me is fucking fantastic - sounds like they just learned to play the synths that day and are still in wonder at being able to string a couple of chords together. When Vince Clarke left they went downhill fast - essentially they have nothing whatsoever to say and their attempts at quasi-'industrial' stylings coupled with Gahan's cliched rock star antics are deeply boring. A truly dreadful band,So back to New Order - who else has done what they have done. I think the only artists who have defined their own world to the same extent would be Brian Eno, Bowie's 'Berlin' albums and Kraftwerk. But they're not really 'rivals'. Actually the idea of 'rivals' is daft.Wait... I forgot the PSBs - pop genius all the way. Still good, yet they've stagnated a little over the last decade. The first 15 or so singles are absolutely amazing though.

:clap: :clap: Not very often you'll find me agreeing with people on here - but every now and then there's an exception.....except for The Depeche Mode thing, I only ever liked the odd song, which is the reason I only have 101 and Violator. Cure cracking singles band - never thought much of their albums. I have almost all the PSB singles to 1992. I agree these bands aren't rivals, just also rans :lol:

And Jeff - please stop mentioning them horrible bastards Erasure. Vile, Horrible, Purile SHITE;)

7 Jul 2004, 04:51

Almanso,

Sorry I misspelled you name, I am not very good at typing.

Well, sorry I havent been playing New Order songs on piano since I was 7.

I am stepping out of this argument now, as I like NO, DM, and the Cure equally. So I said my piece already.

7 Jul 2004, 05:12

Blimey I got some applause!

Erasure - yes they're pish, with the exception of the majestic 'Sometimes'- a pink-pop/electro zeitgeist thingy which was, in retrospect a false dawn. Bah.

7 Jul 2004, 14:27

You are all like small minded ignorant homophobic jock thugs,

But Shug isn't really Scottish.

8 Jul 2004, 01:47

Originally posted by James Thomas > You are all like small minded ignorant homophobic jock thugs,But Shug isn't really Scottish.

Nah - or small minded. But I am a homophobic bigot:D

Where did that quote come from JT? My only post was a sensible one fer a change, so I find it hard to believe it was aimed at muggins here :confused2:

8 Jul 2004, 02:54

Originally posted by James Thomas > You are all like small minded ignorant homophobic jock thugs,But Shug isn't really Scottish.

:rofl: :laugh: :nod:

8 Jul 2004, 03:18

:nonono:

Originally posted by Zachery Starkey A lot of you dont even have good reasons to dislike DM or the Cure. You are all like small minded ignorant homophobic jock thugs, the type of people that the intelligent gay dance club members of New Order prollyregard as ignorant pricks.

How does one become a member of the 'intelligent gay dance' club? Sounds interesting. I'm sure Shug would've be first up to get his card stamped. :eek3:

And how can a band who've put out electro, country & western, acid house, pop and rock records have LESS diversity than the Cure?!

8 Jul 2004, 03:31

I've always thought that Zachary Starkey was fulla shit anyway:D

8 Jul 2004, 03:47

Disturbingly so for someone who is only 16, though I suppose we all think we know everything at that age :evil4:

8 Jul 2004, 04:26

from not the nine o'clock news "Gerald" sketch 1981 about a gorilla that had been brought to England & now spoke English being interviewed on a chat show Gerald - "what do i spend my money on? well I expect you think I spend it all on carpet shampoo on bananas. I do spend 990% of it on that but I'm also partial to a bit of Johnny Mathis." Geralds 'owner' - "rather partial? you're not kidding, when a chiold is born blaring out all hours...." Gerald - "listen, the production quality on that album is amazing"

compare & contrast the talking Gorilla defending Johhny Mathis with this extract

Originally posted by Zachery Starkey Depeche Mode combined industrial sound palletes with classic pop songwriting to create and incredibly complex and diverse sound. Listen to Black Celebration and Violator. The songwriting and production qualities of these records are amazing.Zachery

p.s. I like enjoy the silence, but other Depeche Mode stuff leaves me cold, both with & post vince clarke.

I have seen the Cure live twice, they were ok in 89, not as good as the New Order concert I saw later that year. They were boring as you like in the XFM concert a few years later - it was all extended dirges. I have in the past owned the following Cure albums (they have dropped the "the" from their name now) Japanese Whispers, head on the door, disintegration (have a signed copy - someone make me an offer!), kiss me kiss me kiss me, entreat, standing on the beach I have heard enough to know that they son't do it for me.

8 Jul 2004, 04:27

he bloody does eat daffodils you know!

8 Jul 2004, 04:28

Originally posted by Adrian Ko the cure v. new order? i'm torn. radiohead v. new order? radiohead. but then again thom & co. rock the socks off any british band with any current relevance. i love new order - but my love for them figures to be more ridden with sentimentality . musically though, no one can touch radiohead at this moment.

Adrian - think you should check out the Hope of The States album, you will problee like it.

8 Jul 2004, 10:08

Well, perhaps all this hulabaloo about the new Cure album will only HELP New Order when they put out their next album. And perhaps it'll even inspire the band to get the album done faster so they'll be able to sell more units while the current "retro" trend in rock is going on; after all, if Morrissey and Fat Bob can sell lots of records to "the kids," then the Order probably can too (esp. if they punch up the "we used to be Joy Division" angle). :rolleyes:

8 Jul 2004, 11:36

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope if Morrissey and Fat Bob can sell lots of records to "the kids," then the Order probably can too (esp. if they punch up the "we used to be Joy Division" angle).

That idea is probably the best thing I've heard...It seems that everyone nowadays is "inspired by" or "sounds like" Joy Division. How about those lads who are Joy Division?

8 Jul 2004, 15:50

[...It seems that everyone nowadays is "inspired by" or "sounds like" Joy Division. How about those lads who are Joy Division?

I thought they tried that on the last album.

8 Jul 2004, 16:27

pssssshh....i don't care whom no are rivals with, whom they hate, or dislike!

i'll make my own mind up on what i listen to! :clap:

8 Jul 2004, 18:58

Homophobe?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Most of my gay and lesbian friends listen to Fleetwood Mac, the Grateful Dead and Phish. Personally, I do not care for Neil's voice.

9 Jul 2004, 11:32

Nothing wrong with liking the Cure. They're good (as are PetShopBoys, the Smiths, etc.) just not great like New Order. The Cure have one masterpiece, Disintegraton, while NO have four (P,C & L through Technique).

Now I'm really going to piss some of you off...

I love Moby. Even Animal Rights :D