Morrisey and New Order is their any history between then?

I get the impression by some of Hooky's comments that the two don't realy get on.

Is it partly do with Marr splitting up to the Smiths to form Electronic with Barney?

Hooky was there on sunday night according to someone on Morrissey Solo. Not aware of any history between the bands. But they did co-headline the festival of the tenth summer at the g-mex in 1986.

I never knew they both played at the same venue, although that was before the Smiths split.

It was just some comment Hooky made on the second DVD of 24HPP. I am probably just reading too much into it.

I wondered if any NO members where at Move.

As well as Hooky, Ir has been mentioned that Steve Morris was at the Cure.

the smiths and new order also played together at the royal court in liverpool once (miners' benefit)

I read in a music mag many years back that Morrissey was upset at Marr joining Sumner in Electronic. Apparently Morrissey despises dance music with a passion and said something along the lines of he 'couldn't understand why he would work with someone who couldn't sing and had little musical talent'... rich coming from a twat like him!

Yep, warbling, sackless wonders despise dance music. Moz was really upset when Barney kicked him out of bed and told him that the 20 was on the dresser.

The whole anti-synth/keyboard attitude blows chunks. Pretty easy stand for him to make when he had one of the world's best guitarist backing his moaning laments.

And the rumors about him in the US. "His wife/GF left him and took his kid and he has not seen them in over 5 years. That is his inspiration, the muse of his inspiration, the saddness in his soul."

Saw the cover of Quarry. He looks like Dukasis on the tank. Instead of holding a Thompson he should have been holding a Glock against his temple.

its funny... new order, the cure, and the smiths, and the fans all have some sort of hatred or rivalry between them... but then depeche mode, and the fans dont seem to have anything against any of them... its kind of funny really...

sooner than you think

There's a half-decent story that The Smith's "Oscillate Wildly" is Marr basically sticking two fingers up at Moz for his luddite anti-synth/dance/anything-after-Oscar-Wilde attitude. Stevn Patrick has also said some less than pleasant things about Joy Division, too....

Let's face it. Morrissey is and always has been a bitter and twisted sad fucker who occasionally makes a half-decent vocal track/lyric, and who was always jealous of Bernard's ability to make good records with bad lyrics and singing.

As Popey(e) has already said, "Sooner Than You Think" was the answer to "How Soon Is Now".

mozza has resented jd/no for many years and its got nothing to do with synth/dance music either. its due to the fact that they easily took the spotlight from him,they was his big competitors at the time in manchester and i guess he wanted total admiration and couldnt share it with anyone. on new order he was quoted as claiming that they was "miserabilists" ,coming from morrisey thats rich. to make matters even worse he was being interviewed in the hacienda at the time of the comments. ive quite liked a few of morriseys tracks,but at the back of my mind ive allways thought,hmmmm hes a twat though. the judge in his royalties claim which he lost called him a greedy greedy man,from his actions over the years id say he was a greedy greedy man in many respects.

I think the bitterness just spoils things a bit though. I love the Morrisey/The Smiths and Joy Division and New Order.

I think the snyth pop thing is lame, yes you can argue its not traditional music, but you can achieve things with snyhtesisers you could never do otherwise.

I think Morrisey is misserable, but I think its fair to call him a twat but then Ian Curtis dosn't come across that well in his wife's book either.

Curtis was undoubtedly a bit of a twat as well (who isn't ?), but remember he doesn't have right of reply to the book.

I understand the book is one sided, and sadly Ian Curtis can never reply. But some of the stuff he did (stated as fact) was easily as bad as some of the stuff Morrisey has done.

I think they are both twats and both genius. I hate Tony Wilson so much I actually kind of like him.

Can't understand how anyone who didn't lose money on his whims can actually hate AHW. Sure, he's been responsible for some rather big mistakes down the line, but he's also masterminded quite a lot. I can understand how Bernard felt the way he did on Liar, but not why an ordinary member of the public can feel so strongly.

Morrisey is just like Gallegher (however you spell it) brothers. They like nothing different, new, fresh, or anything that anybody else seems to enjoy. They are good artists but to me guys like that ( Matthew Good too ) really hurt their music because when they sing something emotional it sounds like BS because in real life they are complete jerk offs. It's a shame I think.

Originally posted by ShugZV© I have a recording of Mozzer reviewing An Ideal For Living on Radio 1, very interesting it was.Basically said he didn't see the point in Joy Division / New Order, but they were good for Manchester, something along them lines.If I can be arsed tonight I'll write down the main parts of the interview and post it the morra. There were a couple of other people giving their views as well, maybe Mark Eh eh Smith and someone else - ma memory's gash!

There was also some programme on BBC2 at the time where Morrissey and George Michael were guests as I remember the book was slated and morrissey said he thought JD were overrated. George Michael said Closer was one of his favourite albums especially the second side. Or was that just a very bad dream I had, somebody please confirm.

Dreaming about George Michael is always bad, but yes he did say that about Closer. He's also said so in a newspaper interview.

As did Jason Donovan, he's a very big JD/NO fan, which reminds me, where did Kylie get her kebabs from? Jason's Donovan (donnervan, get it, pure class!)

indeed as mentioned above they all played together at the royal court in 86...all in aid of degsy hatton.

interstingly the encore was quite a rocking version of maggies farm..it was played by a mixture of all 3 bands who played on the night..( no,smiths and the fall ). bernard and mozzer both refused to come out....perhaps they were chewing the cud over a nice cup of tea;)

Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by ShugZV© I have a recording of Mozzer reviewing An Ideal For Living on Radio 1, very interesting it was.Basically said he didn't see the point in Joy Division / New Order, but they were good for Manchester, something along them lines.If I can be arsed tonight I'll write down the main parts of the interview and post it the morra. There were a couple of other people giving their views as well, maybe Mark Eh eh Smith and someone else - ma memory's gash!

There was also some programme on BBC2 at the time where Morrissey and George Michael were guests as I remember the book was slated and morrissey said he thought JD were overrated. George Michael said Closer was one of his favourite albums especially the second side. Or was that just a very bad dream I had, somebody please confirm. Mozza was actually quite supportive of both New Order and the book on that programme (8 Days A Week) - it was Tony Blackburn who wasn't (tho' he did get confused between Joy Division and the Sex Pistols) and George Michael didn't like the book because of Paul Morley's involvement tho' he said that Closer was one of his favourite albums (he could even name The Eternal and Twenty Four Hours as being from side 2 so I don't think he was making it up). The Mozman found the diary part to be very interesting but he couldn't understand the bits between the chapters but he said that he supported New Order "albeit with some reservations".

actually bernard did come out at the end at the liverpool miners' benefit gig, it was a bit of a fiasco though as the audience pelted them all with bottles etc. I remember seeing bernard sat on a guitar amp strumming away, oblivious to all of it.

Originally posted by Jackson Withrow Morrisey is just like Gallegher (however you spell it) brothers. They like nothing different, new, fresh, or anything that anybody else seems to enjoy. They are good artists but to me guys like that ( Matthew Good too ) really hurt their music because when they sing something emotional it sounds like BS because in real life they are complete jerk offs. It's a shame I think.

Careful when using BS here. For a good 2 seconds I thought you referred to good old Mr Sumner.

Worlds biggest muppets:

Morrisey bono err ive run out.

THe older george michael gets, the more i respect him as a performer, which is more than can be said for morrisey. i prefair wham to the smiths, in fact, i even prefair noel and "our kid" to the smiths. Savilles book has a nice piece on wham!

Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths

Originally posted by henke 7 Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths

Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.

Originally posted by Ian MadManc > Originally posted by henke 7> Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths

Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.

Factory had signed the Bunnymen ? Dig that history book out again Ian !

Originally posted by Ian MadManc > Originally posted by henke 7> Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths

Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.

Although before that Johnny Marr said it was imperative that the Smiths DIDNT sign to factory.

Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch > Originally posted by Jackson Withrow> Morrisey is just like Gallegher (however you spell it) brothers. They like nothing different, new, fresh, or anything that anybody else seems to enjoy. They are good artists but to me guys like that ( Matthew Good too ) really hurt their music because when they sing something emotional it sounds like BS because in real life they are complete jerk offs. It's a shame I think.

Careful when using BS here. For a good 2 seconds I thought you referred to good old Mr Sumner.

Yikes, I will keep that in mind next time!

Originally posted by Ian MadManc > Originally posted by henke 7> Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths

Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen. And, yet, Factory signed some utter shite, like the Happy Mondays

Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> > > > Originally posted by henke 7> > Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths>

Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen. And, yet, Factory signed some utter shite, like the Happy Mondays

I take it you're not a Mondays fan then!!! I personally loved them but suppose they were the sort of band you either took to big time or didn't get at all.

I can never seem to get into the Monday's either, some of its ok, but I much prefer New Order and the Smiths.

I am sure the Buneymen were signed to Factory in their early days as well as James.

In the end Marr did have a an album and a few singles on Factory, Electronic:)

Does anybody know what Johnny Marr is upto these days?

Bunnymen were on Zoo in Liverpool that's why they were at that Leigh festival with JD and others Factory meets Zoo halfway.

just by reading this. i have like a bitter taste towards the smiths now......

Johnny Marr WAS playing with his band the healers, a 70s rock influenced band who i thought were really good. Not sure if they are still going, as his drummer zak starkey is now playing with Oasis. Not heard much from Marr since he finished the tour last year.

Probably doing something with the Pet Shop Boys...

Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.

There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters.

In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:

Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511 Morrisey playing at the Move Festival

Oh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.

Originally posted by Julie > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> > > > > > > Originally posted by henke 7> > > > > > I take it you're not a Mondays fan then!!! I personally loved them but suppose they were the sort of band you either took to big time or didn't get at all.> > >

I liked some of the Mondays stuff but Shaun Ryder's voice really pissed me off! AND probably most of their records that I did like had been radically danced up by Paul Oakenfold/Steve Osborne and whoever else... I don't think the group themselves made such a great contribution towards the rave scene of the late 80s/early 90s, more the producers remixing their tracks for them. WAY overrated

Originally posted by Uncle Liam ....his drummer zak starkey is now playing with Oasis. b]

Maybe Oasis should get the son of 'The Quiet One' to play guitars as well and Julian or Sean to sing...then the band would almost be 'reincarnated' karma-wise. Anyone noticed how spookily George Harrison Jr ( wats-his-name? ) looks like his dad?

Originally posted by Ian MadManc Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters. In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511Morrisey playing at the Move FestivalOh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.

Blondie were magnificent when I saw them here in Newcastle. I know some people, a good bit older than me, that had been fans in the 70s and didn't bother going to see them cos they didn't think they would be up to much, but I had a brilliant time.

As for Morrisey, i'm only just starting to appreciate his music now. I've never really paid that much attention to his solo stuff in the past but sometimes it takes a while for things to click with me. It also took me a good while before I started to appreciate the Smiths but i'm glad I kept an open mind about it. I loved New Order's music instantly but it doesn't always happen like that for me.

Has anyone else noticed the uncanny similarity between Track 7 on Morrissey's new album ("How Could Anybody Possibly Know How I Feel?" from "You are the Quarry") and a certain Joy Division track about epilepsy...

... he can't hate JD/NO too much if he's gonna swipe their riffs so obviously.

Originally posted by Julie > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.> > There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters. > > In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:> > Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511> Morrisey playing at the Move Festival> > Oh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.

Blondie were magnificent when I saw them here in Newcastle. I know some people, a good bit older than me, that had been fans in the 70s and didn't bother going to see them cos they didn't think they would be up to much, but I had a brilliant time.

As for Morrisey, i'm only just starting to appreciate his music now. I've never really paid that much attention to his solo stuff in the past but sometimes it takes a while for things to click with me. It also took me a good while before I started to appreciate the Smiths but i'm glad I kept an open mind about it. I loved New Order's music instantly but it doesn't always happen like that for me.

Me and my mate were drunk when he booked the Blondie gig, after dancing to Atomic in a club we decided to book to see them. It actually turned out to be brilliant and they are very good performers for their age.

It took me a long time to get into the Smiths/Morrisey as well but seems to have grown on me. I kind of got into Joy Division and New Order via Rob Gretton.

He was a nieghbour of mine and when he passed away it emerged he was the manager of New Order so I started listening to some of their stuff (true faith) expecting it to be crap. I actually really liked it and got quite a few New Order stuff. I didn't get into JD until 24 Four Hour People. I initialy thought they were goth punk band and didn't listen any of their stuff. When I heared Transmission/She's Lost Control/Attompshere and LWTUA on that film I instantly bought their albums and have been 'hooked' ever sence.

When you look back in retrospect; I think Morrissey/The Smiths leave a more prolific legacy. NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music. Personal attitudes toward Morrissey aside, the guy is a brilliant songwriter and The Smiths have influence exponentially more artists than NewOrder...

I think if there was a New Order and Morrissey Survivor...Morrissey and The Smiths would win.

come on, Moz would be the first to go. Steve or Gillian would win.

The Smiths were a great band and very prolific - loads of great singles & b-sides as well as albums and also fantastic live. Moz solo - very poor except for some of the first album that featured one Vini Reilly.

Couldn't stand the Mondays, they just didn't fit the Factory aesthetic of 'cool classyness' - they were just a bunch of brain dead yobs that got lucky.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid come on, Moz would be the first to go. Steve or Gillian would win.

Of course the Moz would lose; he'd refuse to eat any of the bugs or rotting fish.

Originally posted by Rob Revilo NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music.

I beg to differ; the guitar lines stand the test of time, but Mozza's wailing can get tiring very fast. If you've heard him cry once, you don't really need to hear again. New Order has such a variety of music that it is hard to get tired of all of their music from Movement to GR.

I think the whole Mozza vs. Barney thing is a bit overdone and we really shouldn't be engaging in such a destructive activity...

Who am I kidding? They do that all the time over at Mozza-Solo (bastards ruined the old JD message board I used to go to. I will never forgive them for that one)!

I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Rob Revilo> NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music.

I beg to differ; the guitar lines stand the test of time, but Mozza's wailing can get tiring very fast. If you've heard him cry once, you don't really need to hear again. New Order has such a variety of music that it is hard to get tired of all of their music from Movement to GR.

I beg to differ with the wailing; I actually like Mozza's vocals, they're imbued with a certain weird beauty. Punk was all about people who can't play or sing starting bands, and Mozza is a fine example of that. He wouldn't really have any business onstage prior to the punk era and JD, but now...

As for legacies being more relevant: what was relevant yesterday is old news tomorrow. I put no stake in that whole relevance arguement.

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p

Is there a tainted love between the two? I don't think so, as a fan of both myself ;), and you are just being too shy about the link. Some of you fans are too ooh to be ah.

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p

Is there a tainted love between the two? I don't think so, as a fan of both myself ;), and you are just being too shy about the link. Some of you fans are too ooh to be ah.

It's as serious as the divide between Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young fans and Crosby, Stills, and Nash ones

:p

Originally posted by Rob Revilo When you look back in retrospect; I think Morrissey/The Smiths leave a more prolific legacy. NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music. Personal attitudes toward Morrissey aside, the guy is a brilliant songwriter and The Smiths have influence exponentially more artists than NewOrder...I think if there was a New Order and Morrissey Survivor...Morrissey and The Smiths would win.

I disagree with you about who was more influential.

I love the Smiths (and Morrissey is still worth hearing) and they were very influential but you tend to see it manifest itself in bands with indie guitars and/or moaning vocalists.

There are bands that have tried to sound like New Order but that's not the whole story. I believe New Order influence/d a wider range of music styles. Think of all the rock bands that later used electronics. To a certain extent, they also influenced many dance acts to embrace more rock elements.

I'll leave it to others to list examples of these bands as there are so many (and some were crap).