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Originally posted by Ian MadManc > Originally posted by henke 7> Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths
Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.
Although before that Johnny Marr said it was imperative that the Smiths DIDNT sign to factory.
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch > Originally posted by Jackson Withrow> Morrisey is just like Gallegher (however you spell it) brothers. They like nothing different, new, fresh, or anything that anybody else seems to enjoy. They are good artists but to me guys like that ( Matthew Good too ) really hurt their music because when they sing something emotional it sounds like BS because in real life they are complete jerk offs. It's a shame I think.
Careful when using BS here. For a good 2 seconds I thought you referred to good old Mr Sumner.
Yikes, I will keep that in mind next time! 
Originally posted by Ian MadManc > Originally posted by henke 7> Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths
Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.
And, yet, Factory signed some utter shite, like the Happy Mondays 
Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> > > > Originally posted by henke 7> > Wasn't there some bad blood between Factory and The Smiths>
Yes Rob Gretton declared that their demo was sh*t and refused to sign them. Quite odd since they had signed Echo and the Buneymen.
And, yet, Factory signed some utter shite, like the Happy Mondays
I take it you're not a Mondays fan then!!! I personally loved them but suppose they were the sort of band you either took to big time or didn't get at all.
I can never seem to get into the Monday's either, some of its ok, but I much prefer New Order and the Smiths.
I am sure the Buneymen were signed to Factory in their early days as well as James.
In the end Marr did have a an album and a few singles on Factory, Electronic:)
Does anybody know what Johnny Marr is upto these days?
Bunnymen were on Zoo in Liverpool that's why they were at that Leigh festival with JD and others Factory meets Zoo halfway.
Johnny Marr WAS playing with his band the healers, a 70s rock influenced band who i thought were really good. Not sure if they are still going, as his drummer zak starkey is now playing with Oasis. Not heard much from Marr since he finished the tour last year.
Probably doing something with the Pet Shop Boys...
Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.
There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters.
In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:
Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511 Morrisey playing at the Move Festival
Oh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.
Originally posted by Julie > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> > > > > > > Originally posted by henke 7> > > > > > I take it you're not a Mondays fan then!!! I personally loved them but suppose they were the sort of band you either took to big time or didn't get at all.> > >
I liked some of the Mondays stuff but Shaun Ryder's voice really pissed me off!
AND probably most of their records that I did like had been radically danced up by Paul Oakenfold/Steve Osborne and whoever else... I don't think the group themselves made such a great contribution towards the rave scene of the late 80s/early 90s, more the producers remixing their tracks for them. WAY overrated 
Originally posted by Uncle Liam ....his drummer zak starkey is now playing with Oasis. b]
Maybe Oasis should get the son of 'The Quiet One' to play guitars as well and Julian or Sean to sing...then the band would almost be 'reincarnated' karma-wise.
Anyone noticed how spookily George Harrison Jr ( wats-his-name? ) looks like his dad?
Originally posted by Ian MadManc Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters. In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511Morrisey playing at the Move FestivalOh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.
Blondie were magnificent when I saw them here in Newcastle. I know some people, a good bit older than me, that had been fans in the 70s and didn't bother going to see them cos they didn't think they would be up to much, but I had a brilliant time.
As for Morrisey, i'm only just starting to appreciate his music now. I've never really paid that much attention to his solo stuff in the past but sometimes it takes a while for things to click with me. It also took me a good while before I started to appreciate the Smiths but i'm glad I kept an open mind about it. I loved New Order's music instantly but it doesn't always happen like that for me.
Has anyone else noticed the uncanny similarity between Track 7 on Morrissey's new album ("How Could Anybody Possibly Know How I Feel?" from "You are the Quarry") and a certain Joy Division track about epilepsy...
... he can't hate JD/NO too much if he's gonna swipe their riffs so obviously.
Originally posted by Julie > Originally posted by Ian MadManc> Just a word of wisdom. Never let personal opinions spoil your music. In otherwords Morrisey is a twat but he makes great music (in my opinion) so if you like the music listen to it.> > There are one or two things I don't like about New Order but they are exellent musicisians and thats all that matters. > > In fact the two happiest moments for this year are:> > Barney playing with the Doves at FAC511> Morrisey playing at the Move Festival> > Oh and of course Blondie at the Apollo.
Blondie were magnificent when I saw them here in Newcastle. I know some people, a good bit older than me, that had been fans in the 70s and didn't bother going to see them cos they didn't think they would be up to much, but I had a brilliant time.
As for Morrisey, i'm only just starting to appreciate his music now. I've never really paid that much attention to his solo stuff in the past but sometimes it takes a while for things to click with me. It also took me a good while before I started to appreciate the Smiths but i'm glad I kept an open mind about it. I loved New Order's music instantly but it doesn't always happen like that for me.
Me and my mate were drunk when he booked the Blondie gig, after dancing to Atomic in a club we decided to book to see them. It actually turned out to be brilliant and they are very good performers for their age.
It took me a long time to get into the Smiths/Morrisey as well but seems to have grown on me. I kind of got into Joy Division and New Order via Rob Gretton.
He was a nieghbour of mine and when he passed away it emerged he was the manager of New Order so I started listening to some of their stuff (true faith) expecting it to be crap. I actually really liked it and got quite a few New Order stuff. I didn't get into JD until 24 Four Hour People. I initialy thought they were goth punk band and didn't listen any of their stuff. When I heared Transmission/She's Lost Control/Attompshere and LWTUA on that film I instantly bought their albums and have been 'hooked' ever sence.
When you look back in retrospect; I think Morrissey/The Smiths leave a more prolific legacy. NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music. Personal attitudes toward Morrissey aside, the guy is a brilliant songwriter and The Smiths have influence exponentially more artists than NewOrder...
I think if there was a New Order and Morrissey Survivor...Morrissey and The Smiths would win.
The Smiths were a great band and very prolific - loads of great singles & b-sides as well as albums and also fantastic live. Moz solo - very poor except for some of the first album that featured one Vini Reilly.
Couldn't stand the Mondays, they just didn't fit the Factory aesthetic of 'cool classyness' - they were just a bunch of brain dead yobs that got lucky.
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid come on, Moz would be the first to go. Steve or Gillian would win.
Of course the Moz would lose; he'd refuse to eat any of the bugs or rotting fish.
Originally posted by Rob Revilo NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music.
I beg to differ; the guitar lines stand the test of time, but Mozza's wailing can get tiring very fast. If you've heard him cry once, you don't really need to hear again. New Order has such a variety of music that it is hard to get tired of all of their music from Movement to GR.
I think the whole Mozza vs. Barney thing is a bit overdone and we really shouldn't be engaging in such a destructive activity...
Who am I kidding? They do that all the time over at Mozza-Solo (bastards ruined the old JD message board I used to go to. I will never forgive them for that one)!
I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Rob Revilo> NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music.
I beg to differ; the guitar lines stand the test of time, but Mozza's wailing can get tiring very fast. If you've heard him cry once, you don't really need to hear again. New Order has such a variety of music that it is hard to get tired of all of their music from Movement to GR.
I beg to differ with the wailing; I actually like Mozza's vocals, they're imbued with a certain weird beauty. Punk was all about people who can't play or sing starting bands, and Mozza is a fine example of that. He wouldn't really have any business onstage prior to the punk era and JD, but now...
As for legacies being more relevant: what was relevant yesterday is old news tomorrow. I put no stake in that whole relevance arguement.
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p
Is there a tainted love between the two? I don't think so, as a fan of both myself ;), and you are just being too shy about the link. Some of you fans are too ooh to be ah.
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> I think, personalities aside, you can indeed be a fan of both the Smiths and New Order...but you can't be a fan of both Kajagoogoo and Soft Cell. Those two fan bases should never mix :p
Is there a tainted love between the two? I don't think so, as a fan of both myself ;), and you are just being too shy about the link. Some of you fans are too ooh to be ah.
It's as serious as the divide between Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young fans and Crosby, Stills, and Nash ones 
:p
Originally posted by Rob Revilo When you look back in retrospect; I think Morrissey/The Smiths leave a more prolific legacy. NewOrder's music, although awesome, doesn't stand the test of time as well as The Smiths' and Morrissey's music. Personal attitudes toward Morrissey aside, the guy is a brilliant songwriter and The Smiths have influence exponentially more artists than NewOrder...I think if there was a New Order and Morrissey Survivor...Morrissey and The Smiths would win.
I disagree with you about who was more influential.
I love the Smiths (and Morrissey is still worth hearing) and they were very influential but you tend to see it manifest itself in bands with indie guitars and/or moaning vocalists.
There are bands that have tried to sound like New Order but that's not the whole story. I believe New Order influence/d a wider range of music styles. Think of all the rock bands that later used electronics. To a certain extent, they also influenced many dance acts to embrace more rock elements.
I'll leave it to others to list examples of these bands as there are so many (and some were crap).
