As a wee lad I have never heard Division/Order on vinyl, but I heard the sound quality is better. Is this true? What are the advantages of vinyl over compact disc (if any)?
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Vinyl vs CD
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Wot he said.
But I still can't help listening to Movement and the JD albums on vinyl - seems to me that the tonal quality is better, though it may be that I'm going slightly deaf in my old age...
Vinyl for me every time. Not only the sound, but also each 12"/lp sized PS sleeve is a work of art.(mostly)
There have been several threads on this topic. Somebody, please show the link to them. Coz it's been a big talk about it. :p
Is it true Atmosphere on CD pales in comparison to its vinyl sibling?
BTW the crux of this thread is whether or not I should put the time and money into investing in a record player and vinyl.
It is also important to invest in a decent CD player. Trust me playing cds on a dvd player just doesn't do it.
trying to not get technical here, but my answer would be "depends". remember the technology available at each time a record was released. Movement was made FOR vinyl taking care about the range of frequencies that a vinyl could stand. Movement on CD was digitalized and not recorded specifically for that source so it wouldn´t sound the same (in fact it doesn´t). Get Ready, on the other hand, was recorded to sound well on CD, although i never heard the vinyl to compare.
in the production time everything´s taken into consideration to make the songs sound one way and not other way. Hannett worked on Movement knowing that the product would be a vinyl or a cassette. if he knew it would be released on CD i´m sure he would have worked the sound parameters differently.
that´s the short answer. maybe someone like Bentley could give us a more technical one.
I haven't heard New Order on vinyl, but I own a few of their albums on cassette, and the quality is rather muddy.
Originally posted by Digital Mike Binoche All crap get some live tpaes instead
I did the live collection thing with Smashing Pumpkins back in high school. You've really got to search for decent quality gigs, and most of the stuff sounds cleaner on the albums, anyway.
Originally posted by TOKOLOSHE MAN http://www.outersound.com/osu/djing/cdvinyl.htmlhttp://www.mio.co.za/article.php?id=152http://www.underconsideration.com/speakup/archives/001227.html
These seem to be from a DJ's point of view. And speaking from a DJ's point of view about CD vs vinyl's soundquality: Who really thinks that the drunk, horny, and sweatty people on the dance floor really care about (or can hear) the diff between CD and vinyl?
CDs are good because they fit in my pocket. Vinyl smells good.
Check out the Shanling series of CD-players if you're are saying that vinyl played on your $300 turntable sounds better that on your $30 CD-walkman...
/TLV
IMO, vinyl sounds noticeably better, more bass, much more 'fuller' sound, more detail - play the original 12" Ceremony and you will appreciate what I mean. I have a semi ok CD player with pre/power amp setup - got a turntable last year and didn't regret it at all. Its great to play some of those old NO 12 inchers as they were meant to sound. Go for it!
Originally posted by Wasimple Is it true Atmosphere on CD pales in comparison to its vinyl sibling?BTW the crux of this thread is whether or not I should put the time and money into investing in a record player and vinyl.
When i originally posted a thread in whats in your jd/no collection i told the guys i had no vinyl.
They then "shamed" me into buying a few recs.
I bought a few 7s to start with now my collection has really grown.
i have nearly everything no/jd + related that was released on vinyl (standard issues+ a few promos).
You cant beat the sound of the old crackly vinyl,much better than cd.
I now find myself minus record player but still have all the vinyl.
I wouldnt get rid of any of my recs unless absolutely neccessary( see another thread!).
my advice to you is get yourself a good turntable and get the entire jd/no + related back catalog and enjoy!
Dont pay too much for the vinyl though!
regards
Another heads up for Vinyl here, luckily I own almost everything JD/NO released. The obvious downside is that I have had to buy two copies of three or more items, Technique got played to death...literally, totally wore it out and it was more warped than Rocket Mick and Hibster rolled into one by the end of 89.
Unluckily for me - the record player is on it's last legs, crackling from both speakers and the speed has totally gone on the turn table.
I am coming round more to CD's these days though, there are several CD's I have played recently where the sound is so much better, I've heard stuff I originally never picked up on from the vinyl. Having said that, there's nothing quite like putting on the early 12" records or Factus 8 and relaxing with a lager and a smoke;)
CD has better audio definition for later releases as Almanso mentioned.
but Vinyl has nice sleeves and the opportunity to do the whole "gatefold" thing which looks fantastic.
Originally posted by almansonemesis Movement on CD was digitalized and not recorded specifically for that source so it wouldn´t sound the same (in fact it doesn´t). Get Ready, on the other hand, was recorded to sound well on CD, although i never heard the vinyl to compare.
I pretty much agree with your point; I've have Get Ready both on CD and on the German vinyl print and although there's not much difference, it still sounds better on CD to these ears.
And yeah, Movement sounds better on vinyl to me too, not to mention Unknown Pleasures or Closer. Vinyl distorts the overall sound a bit, I guess some think that it's not an accurate medium then. Personally I love that slight distorted effect that it gives; people like Ian Curtis or Bob Dylan sound like they're in the same room with me when I listen to them on vinyl. No CD can ever really do that.
CD over vinyl every time. This despite the fact that my vinyl collection outnumbers my CD collection by at least 50 to 1 (mostly 12" singles about 5% of which I use for work and the remaing 95% of which I'll probably never listen to again!). I didn't even bother wiring up my Technics 1210 Mk II when I moved house in Feb.
It's simple, the quality, and most notably the volume, diminishes on a 12" piece of vinyl the more tracks that appear on it. Any rookie DJ's who have tried playing an LP out in a club will confirm this! So while a 12" single with 1 track per side can sound as good as a CD, albums with 5 plus tracks per side just aren't as good.
If your using a crap CD player and a good turntable then obviously this could lead you to believe that vinyl sounds better. If there of comporable quality though then there's no debate.
think they both have good and bad points-vinyl being that it scratches easily,cd that they seem a little less special than getting home and opening/playing a new piece of vinyl for the first time (probably cos i had the agony of waiting to get home on the bus before i could hear it when i was a kid,as apposed to nowdays i can buy it and bung it straight on in the car).
Cheers for the responses. I'll look for a decent not too expensive record player.... anyone know where to look? ;)
Originally posted by Digital Mike Binoche Ebay, go for a Linn Sondek - awesome
Correct. Then get a top notch moving coil cartridge, make sure it has a good tone arm and get it serviced. Then stick it on a Mana Acoustics separation stand.
Look what you have done, got me interested in a turntable now. Fancy the Pro-ject Debut III or Goldring GR1. Ebay search to follow
who cares? in a few years we'll all be listening to them with the chips that will soon be planted in our heads and connected to a worldwide wi-fi system, anyway.;)
CDs. record players are a pain in the ass to jog with. anyway, the crackling sound is charming when listening to pre-1960 albums but completely unnecessary when listening to more recent music.
I have managed to completely destroy my turntable some years back, and have never gotten around to fixing it. These days I have all NO songs that I have also on cd, so there's never been any real need to get it fixed. This has a great bonus,
it has saved my vinyl collection.
Now I can not stress enough the importance of a decent sound system, inc amp, cd player, and speakers, to achieve great sound.
Just saying that cds sound crap because you play them on an inferior cd player is missing the point. You need a decent source, crap in- crap out.
Yes you can achieve that great bass sound on the original Ceremony on cd, that is if you were lucky enough to get a transferred copy.
What you're hearing in vinyl that's pleasing to the ear is a subtle amount of distortion... I think someone's already touched on this point already. You get a similar distortion from analog tape as well which many find as being "warmer." Mastering for vinyl has some different considerations such as excessive out of phase information or off balance bass information that might cause issues while the stylus is tracking. I would imagine most projects then were mastered to the standards of the day whcih differ quite a bit to todays products. Also, bear in mind that in order to allow for more grooves on a record(longer playing times), a standard was adapted that cut the lows at 50Hz and boosted the highs at 15kHz (by 17db each...or somewhere around there). A phono preamp applies an opposite curve on playback to re-equalize the record.
CDs tend to sound a little cleaner and have been attributed as a "cleaner" sounding medium. As with vinyl, the better your playback system, the better sound you'll get out of each. I think someone has already touched on that as well.
Whichever one pleases you more is the one you should go with. I own both and enjoy both. I do know one thing for certain... mp3's deserve a special place in hell right beside 8 track tape.
Originally posted by Kevin Smith > Originally posted by Digital Mike Binoche> Ebay, go for a Linn Sondek - awesome
Correct. Then get a top notch moving coil cartridge, make sure it has a good tone arm and get it serviced. Then stick it on a Mana Acoustics separation stand.
And then, remortgage yer house :p
Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one?
Dare I say that even the Retro one sounds not that impressive!
Retro Confusion is the fucking shit 
Here's the thing: in my position I would have to somehow get my hands on a fair bit of money and go out of my way to get a record player and the necessary vinyl. In one word (and not 'maybe' or 'depends', is it worth it?
Originally posted by A severe young man Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one? Dare I say that even the Retro one sounds not that impressive!
Confusion 83 will never sound good. Always too muddy. Confusion 87 is the way to go, even on CD and cassette.
Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be > Originally posted by A severe young man> Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one? > > Dare I say that even the Retro one sounds not that impressive!
Confusion 83 will never sound good. Always too muddy. Confusion 87 is the way to go, even on CD and cassette.
Ironically NO tried to update Confusion and it resulted in Confusion 87, which now sounds soooo out-of-date, while the original version still has its charms.
Anyway I made my own CD with the Confusion 12" tracks, made the front- and backcover and here you go - Confusion CD :) (I really didn't even bother to get rid of the vinyl hiss, though hardly audiable). Sounds grrrrrrrreat! 
Originally posted by A severe young man Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one?
If I'm not terribly mistaken, the only Confusion '83 version that has ever surfaced onto CD is the Rough Mix (Arthur Baker's Breakin' compilation and Retro)... Not that much to choose from :)
Originally posted by Bentley Whichever one pleases you more is the one you should go with. I own both and enjoy both. I do know one thing for certain... mp3's deserve a special place in hell right beside 8 track tape.
Mp3s are perfect when wanting portable music. Try go jogging with a CD-Walkman, or even worse: a portable turntable ;)
Originally posted by AgentWood who cares? in a few years we'll all be listening to them with the chips that will soon be planted in our heads and connected to a worldwide wi-fi system, anyway.;)
I thought that was going to be used by some... high authority (*cough*Bush/Ashcroft*cough*) to force propaganda onto people. 
/TLV
In fact, some good vinyl's records are great than poor and average CD records, but to take an SQ beter than an CD, you must have to take an phono calibrated, with a good capsule and good pre-amp and amp.
Now, whith new digital formats (DVD-Audio, SACD), and digital records (in studio) I did'nt like vinyl for new records.
I've spent way too much money on both turntables and CD decks for the price to be swaying me either way, but CD's. Always
Technics CD deck, Nad amp, Mission speakers for music made with instruments, Denon/Denon/Monitor for electronic music. The first setup gives a richer sound than vinyl can, and the second one just seems to give an all-round better sound than vinyl can.
Originally posted by TLV > Originally posted by A severe young man> Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one?
If I'm not terribly mistaken, the only Confusion '83 version that has ever surfaced onto CD is the Rough Mix (Arthur Baker's Breakin' compilation and Retro)... Not that much to choose from :)
Originally posted by Bentley Whichever one pleases you more is the one you should go with. I own both and enjoy both. I do know one thing for certain... mp3's deserve a special place in hell right beside 8 track tape.
Mp3s are perfect when wanting portable music. Try go jogging with a CD-Walkman, or even worse: a portable turntable ;)
Originally posted by AgentWood who cares? in a few years we'll all be listening to them with the chips that will soon be planted in our heads and connected to a worldwide wi-fi system, anyway.;)
I thought that was going to be used by some... high authority (*cough*Bush/Ashcroft*cough*) to force propaganda onto people.
/TLV
As Wasimple mentioned above, Confusion (1983 12") is featured on Retro Compact Disc 1.
Originally posted by Andy > Originally posted by TLV> > > > Originally posted by A severe young man> > Ha, who can tell me which CD version of Confusion (1983) sounds better than the vynyl one?>
If I'm not terribly mistaken, the only Confusion '83 version that has ever surfaced onto CD is the Rough Mix (Arthur Baker's Breakin' compilation and Retro)... Not that much to choose from :)
As Wasimple mentioned above, Confusion (1983 12") is featured on Retro Compact Disc 1.
Hmm, after a second listen to both tracks I have to agree. It's been quite a long, long time since I listened to the 12", and my memory thought that the two versions (12 inch vs. Rough Mix) were more different. To my ears, the Retro and Breakin' tracks are as different as Temptation 7" and Temptation (Something Wild soundtrack), i.e. more of an edit than mix. My bad.
/TLV
Actually, if I were the music industry, I'd put albums on CARTRIDGE of ROM memory, direct digital recording, loseless format...
Would bring back a small part of the 8 tracks days 
Seriously though, it should be done, and each mp3 player should have an expansion slot to accept those cartridges...
So, WTRIWYH.... what they record is what you get ;)
But maybe I have bad ears, but 320 kbps mp3 files and my iPod, I seriously don't miss the vinyl days....
Originally posted by Spotnick Actually, if I were the music industry, I'd put albums on CARTRIDGE of ROM memory, direct digital recording, loseless format...Would bring back a small part of the 8 tracks days
Every heard about SD (Secure Digital) cards? At least my Rio S35 mp3 player has an expansion slot for these stamp-sized solid-state memorycards. Or MemoryStick or CompactFlash for that matter.
I fully agree with you that we are moving towards solid-state (no movable items) storage. HD-based players will probably only go so far for portable media (e.g., iPod). Who really needs 400GB of mp3s (or some other format) when riding the bus? The problem with solid-state today is price. Today the price is roughly 1USD/10MB, meaning about 10USD for an average coded CD - and that's just the cost of the media...
Also, I agree that a correctly encoded mp3 with a good bitrate (I use 256kbps with the Lame encoder) sounds good enough for my damaged ears, and works for ripping a regular CD. However, a high bitrate takes care of the dynamic range (the diff volume highs and lows in the music) but the frequency range is still limited to ~20kHz (using a sampling freq of 44.1kHz). Sure, most can't hear freqs above 15kHz but one of the arguments for vinyl is that we can feel higher freqs...
To tie this to some New Order content: please release all the albums again (at lest the ones from the 80s) properly remastered.
/TLV
