Brotherhood of mud...?

Listen chaps, I believe the best way to listen to music is with a revealing source. In my case a Linn turntable and a Marantz CD17 KI signature cd player. Input them to a 'staight line' amp, (Cyrus Pre & Power in this case), output to revealing speakers, Tannoy P80's. Linn interconnects and speaker cable, and bobs yer aunty with balls. Everything on the disc will be revealed, as it was meant to be, for sure. As for the Beatles instrumentals, buy the mono vinyl if you want to hear it as intended, the pseudo stereo cd re-releases are crap!

Originally posted by Huntsman I once visited Scotland and was able to purchase several 'downtown hookers' for 11 pence... which left ample for a bag of salty chips to round of what was, it must be said, a beautiful evening.It was only the next morning that I felt a bit 'under the weather' as I could not for the life of me scrub them damn stains out of me best briefs... which to this day remind me of that very evening where I purchased 2 'street girls' for only 11pence... and was capable of obtaining salted chips with the leftover penny... which to this day still feels like money well spent.

Heavens Hunts, that sounds like a typical Saturday night out for the Mufftickler, cept last weekend I ventured through to Edinburgh where my 12p bought me the company of 12 charming young 'ladies of the night'. And still enough for me fast black home the very next day! But not a chip in sight!

Hey Muffy, this is fun. you could get to 1000 today if we keep going in circles about turntalbes. it sounds like you have a pretty good set up at your place. I like to play with the sound to see what i can get. That's where you and I are differing here. You are a purist. "This is how it should sound, according to the artist who made the recording" and I like to fuck with the sound until it pleases me. Sometimes i adjust the balance all the way to the left so only the speakers in my kitchen and bathroom play. Sometimes i like to boost the low end and cut the highs (when listening to Global Chillage by Irrisistable Force) and sometimes i like to turn on my effects processor and get wiggy with the Theives Like Us instrumental. It's an audio amuzement park in my place someday's. You should stop by for tea. I have Tetley and Earl Grey (and some hippie tea for chilling out!) do you take cream and sugar?

No wait, let me guess. You like your tea straight just like nature intended. No gloss, no fuss, just the pure brewed tea. Right?

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan No wait, let me guess. You like your tea straight just like nature intended. No gloss, no fuss, just the pure brewed tea. Right?

Yes, you're right Brian. Each to his own. I like my tea sweet but not too milky, not such a purist when it comes to tea! I like lots of oil on my weed though, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I think we can work through our relationship problems over a cup of tetley, a spliff, and Brotherhood on the decks. I would secretly adjust the treble to ensure your enjoyment but I won't add milk to your tea.

OK, back to the original subject. While trying to finalize my top two last night, I listened to about the first three tracks from Brotherhood, as well as many from PCL, Low-Life, and Substance.

I will say it again: there is something seriously wrong with the sound on Brotherhood. Perhaps muddiness is not the right word. Maybe mushiness is more like it. There is a very disturbing lack of separation or distinctness between the various sound elements: vocals, drums, guitar, bass, etc. It's like they've all been mixed together in a large bowl and then poured through a straw. Another word for it might be claustrophobic.

With the opening track Paradise and even the second track Weirdo being so jangly and up-tempo its quite evident that theres something not quite right somewhere along the line....

However some people obviously appear not to have experienced this phenomena with their copies of the hood. I'll endeavour to mp3 the first track off my cd and if it retains its essential elements as discussed i'll post it up on a link for analysis.

I think we may have misled people by calling it muddiness. If that word indicates lack of range, as Muffy suggests, that isn't really the problem. It is hard to understand how others don't experience this.

I've listened to Brother Klumpy twice today, one time through the speakers and one time with the cans on and still I remain confused by the question of bad sound. I can only surmise that some rogue record company tosspot employed an el-cheapo mastering plant to produce a run of the album and they cocked it up big time. Maybe the best way to research this would be to swap copies, so Patsy, as all round sensible guy of the forum, remind us once again please of this zit on the good face of the Brother in the New Year and i'll despatch to you what I believe to be a good copy of the album and maybe we can get to the bottom of this once and for all.

Originally posted by Shug The only thing that pisses me off about the sound is when you do a compilation from the albums - and the sound quality of everything else is more polished - so you go from a clear loud sounding track such as Vanishing Point - then the quality and noise goes down when listening to As It Is ... pisses me off a bit at work because of the sound of machinery makes it harder to hear the Brotherhood tracks

Again Shugster, no such probs for me. I have a compilation of my own which starts off with As It Is and Broken Promise and the levels are fine. The only complaint I have of sound levels on any Order album is that Low-Life is mastered too quiet, if memory serves me it's a full 5db below the rest, and that's a lot!

Originally posted by Muffy I've listened to Brother Klumpy twice today, one time through the speakers and one time with the cans on and still I remain confused by the question of bad sound. I can only surmise that some rogue record company tosspot employed an el-cheapo mastering plant to produce a run of the album and they cocked it up big time. Maybe the best way to research this would be to swap copies, so Patsy, as all round sensible guy of the forum, remind us once again please of this zit on the good face of the Brother in the New Year and i'll despatch to you what I believe to be a good copy of the album and maybe we can get to the bottom of this once and for all.

Well, Muffy, that sounds like a sensible procedure although involving a burden on you. But if you're willing, sure.

Let's do it Patrick, it's research, we may be eligible for a government grant. Or even a tax deduction for expenses in the name of science!

I'm working on a couple of sponsorship deals for this at the moment... I'll keep you informed. (Nike showed interest at around 3pm but backed out... with any luck the Colonel KFC himself might support it).

I remain fixed on this:

that a) Both Muffin the Mucus and I have superb copies of Busty Bloopers b) that others such as Pastie have dog eggs of ill repute.

The aformentioned trans-atlantic BrotherBusty swap is the only way to determine who is calling the kettle black.

May the best male win.

Pringles on the phone.... I'll be back shortly.

Originally posted by Muffy Let's do it Patrick, it's research, we may be eligible for a government grant. Or even a tax deduction for expenses in the name of science!

I'll be happy to lend my ears in the name of science, Muffy, such as they are.

Originally posted by Huntsman I'm working on a couple of sponsorship deals for this at the moment... I'll keep you informed. (Nike showed interest at around 3pm but backed out... with any luck the Colonel KFC himself might support it).I remain fixed on this:thata) Both Muffin the Mucus and I have superb copies of Busty Bloopersb) that others such as Pastie have dog eggs of ill repute.The aformentioned trans-atlantic BrotherBusty swap is the only way to determine who is calling the kettle black.May the best male win.

Keep, in mind, Huntsy, it is always possible I have lousy hearing, but nonetheless I'm a willing volunteer.

Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Muffy > Let's do it Patrick, it's research, we may be eligible for a government grant. Or even a tax deduction for expenses in the name of science!

I'll be happy to lend my ears in the name of science, Muffy, such as they are.

Ok Patsy, after the New Year hols are out of the way let's get it on.

My ears are at the ready, Muff-man.

If I may go back to the original subject; I think the reason Brotherhood sounds muddy is the way the drums sound on side one (the 'guitar' songs). It's like Stephen is using cardboard boxes :) On side two the sound is better I think.

what like a hollow "dead" sound ?

playlist it next to something like Regret, Crystal or even something older like Shellshock and the difference is evident (well on my version anyhow)

Theres really no excuse especially when the opening track actually sounds better on my 316dvd!!!!

Perhaps it's the right English word, but drums sound 'flat', no 'body'. On LL (especially in Love Vigilantes and Sunrise) the drums sound much clearer. So I think it is a production issue. I agree that Regret and later stuff have a better sound quality, but most music from the nineties sounds better (technically wise) than music from the eighties. The NO songs with drum computer (like Shellshock) have always had better sound quality.

Hey guys, have you tried EQing? Perhaps take a (E)Qtip to your ear...

....i've had the devil round for tea!

Just one more observation after listening to large chunks of PCL and Low Life and all of Brotherhood, to me it seems now that the largest part of the problem that I'm hearing now on Brotherhood relates to the mixing of the vocals; they sound buried, somehow. I remember when Huntsy said a while ago that he sang along to Brotherhood, my response was how can you sing along when you can't hear the words.

I remember reading at the time that NO used analogue equipment to record the album to deliberately get that sound... I also remember at the time thinking this was quite strange for a `dance' band... but I didn't know NO that well back then...