Guilt is a Useless...question

Is it just me or does that nice snapping sound punctuating the lyrics of this song (you know the one I mean, it's also at the very end) sound like a can of beer opening?

I can just imagine Barney in the studio: "Put some more echo effect on that can of Stella!"

I don't know Dave. The song is crap and I can't even force myself to listen to it. Just listen to those creepy female backing vocals. Ew!

I gave into tempation, and am listening to the album now.

I think guilt is a useless emotion is fantastic. the crack noise you refer (along with loads of other effects) to is on Lu Conts (great) Gwen Stefani remix.

I really think this song is great. Like what the b-side to republic should've been had the band been more together at the time. Pity there isnt more hooky though.

They fouled up with those "I need your love" backing vocals. Is that Dawn Zee? It sounds more like a computer or a gremlin.

Originally posted by NObabe I don't know Dave. The song is crap and I can't even force myself to listen to it. Just listen to those creepy female backing vocals. Ew!

Agree...Some of the less immediate songs are growing on me, but the more i listen to this one the more i cringe.

Don't know which one's worse: Fast Synth or Guilt is blah blah. The song was meant to be crap.

the females vocals are so cliche and generic it makes me cringe... and the beats and synths during the "chrous" also seem so cliche also, not New Orderish but meant to fit in with all the other faceless songs in the genre really makes me cringe also ...

obviously this was what New Order wanted, but they are trying to be something else that they are not... to fit in with the bland mainstream club sound... it just comes across as bland and tacky... almost a generic faceless track at first listen.

.... but if you listen a few times and get used to it, there IS a good, energetic song in there.... it's just a shame that New Order was willing to give away their individuality that much to try to fit in with the bland faceless crowd:(

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Question: is this the shittest New Order song title ever? Absolutely awful.

Probably up there with Slow Jam and Rock the Shack in the cringeful name stakes. Who did they think they were, The Kings of Leon?

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by A Siren's Touch Hahaha, once again coming from a chick who just don't get it when it comes to techno!I do agree when it comes to the name of the song though... eeesh!

This chick DO get it when it comes to lawyers.

actually i think i get it now... the "Guilt" in the title is the guilt about releasing the song as produced... the idea is that being guilty about the track is useless, New order is just going to go ahead and have fun, everybody can piss off

It's not A useless but AN useless

I really like "Guilt is a useless emotion". I think it will draw in lots of new fans and is great remix fodder. Maybe too hip for some of the more old New Order fans, I dunno. Either way, I don't know if I would make it a single but it's catchy and would be great for DJs.

Fast Synth is an USELESS track

ooseless?

Of course it's a beer can opening noise! Barney was in the studio and probably yelled out something like, "this track needs more Stella!" (As you suggested Dave).

Anyways Guilt is what it is, a cliche dance song that sounds amazing. Still my favorite track on the album.

Great avatar, Tristan!

Originally posted by Jackson Withrow I really like "Guilt is a useless emotion". I think it will draw in lots of new fans and is great remix fodder. Maybe too hip for some of the more old New Order fans, I dunno. Either way, I don't know if I would make it a single but it's catchy and would be great for DJs.

hip? its much more modern than 80s dance if that is what you mean, but most USA urban "hip" club scene DJs would normally never play such a vocal/ beat styled track except to be ironic, thou "Guilt" should get play in the "all-gay" clubs where they play the effete diva stuff.

it's really not a bad track... just a bit too much, and New Order diluted... you could almost say its so dorky its cool from that viewpoint

Originally posted by A Siren's Touch Hahaha, once again coming from a chick who just don't get it when it comes to techno!I do agree when it comes to the name of the song though... eeesh!

Techno?

Originally posted by Spotnick I'm not surprised that many people don't like this track.Obviously, those people probably don't like remixes too.This is probably the best dance track New Order did since 1987 (not counting remixes here!)Didn't like it at all at first, but this rapidly became of of my favorites...

So Guilt is better than certain tracks off of Technique?

NOTHING is better than technique.

I do hope they play this song live. It is one of my favourite on the album. Is Dawn now a member of the band like Phil?

Another Question: Which song was played by Hooky in the DJ sets?

Originally posted by Clockwork C Another Question: Which song was played by Hooky in the DJ sets?

In the press release Hooky talks about playing Working Overtime in his sets and "people loving it"

IMHO - when I first heard this song I was completely in love with it. But having listened to it more and had a chance to reflect, I really think now that the rest of the song is brilliant (i.e. hooky's bass at the start of the 2nd verse is a quintessential NO moment), but the chorus is pure cheese. The lads should have rewritten the chorus or taken it out or something. The female vocals just ruin it, but even without them musically that whole section of the song just falls apart.

I HATE the backing vocals, ruin a decent song

I hate fast synth and backing vocals. It sounds like very worst Electronic song.

I am new, and I don't get you people.

Why the hate for female backing vocals? I think they sound great.

It doesn't in ANY way sound like PSB or Electronic (Hey Joe and Hey Now sound WAY more Electronic than Guilt).

And the title sucks, but it is a well-done, catchy electro-dancepop song. It adds a well-appreciated shot of diversity to the album.

Originally posted by Thataboy Why the hate for female backing vocals? I think they sound great.

Its because I'm sexist. I'm glad Gillian's out of the band n'all.

"I want your lurv" sounds like its coming from a bleeding gremlin never mind Ms Zee.

I think it sounds as a dance track from the early 90's but this cheesy chorus synths needs to be replaced for a remixed version single. It could work well in the dance scene.

Originally posted by Wasimple > Originally posted by Thataboy> > Why the hate for female backing vocals? I think they sound great.

Its because I'm sexist. I'm glad Gillian's out of the band n'all.

"I want your lurv" sounds like its coming from a bleeding gremlin never mind Ms Zee.

Yeah i agree.The backing vocals i don`t mind really but they are a bit um.. kind of like a creepy , mad stalker woman.A bunny boiler?

I hated it at first listening and I'm not into this kind of pure night-club music. But I must admit that, in this style, it is a very good track, a powerful dance-floor killer. So, IMO, it should not be released as an album track, but only as a single, like NO did during the 80s, e.g. with BlueMonday. This format would perfectly suit its content and match the DJs' habits. This track and its remixed sequels may well be among the disco hits of the spring (at least in Europe).

Originally posted by Spotnick I'm not surprised that many people don't like this track.Obviously, those people probably don't like remixes too.This is probably the best dance track New Order did since 1987 (not counting remixes here!)Didn't like it at all at first, but this rapidly became of of my favorites...

Well, I love GOOD remixes and also LOVE good dance tracks. This one is not that bad IMHO, but it sounds a bit like "OK, we have to do one f**king dance track for the f**king new album". Too much simple and these chords F G Am are not that creative - maybe the most common in dance tracks ever.

In my opinion it's a not a 'bad' track per-se. It's just that it's dwarfed by the standout quality of most of the other tracks and seems a little out of place what's essentially a Britpop album (With John Leckie and Stephen Street taking turns on the boards is it really that surprising?). I think they could get a better dance track out of a good Dracula's Castle remix though.

Originally posted by pumped full of drugs > Originally posted by Jackson Withrow> I really like "Guilt is a useless emotion". I think it will draw in lots of new fans and is great remix fodder. Maybe too hip for some of the more old New Order fans, I dunno. Either way, I don't know if I would make it a single but it's catchy and would be great for DJs.

hip? its much more modern than 80s dance if that is what you mean, but most USA urban "hip" club scene DJs would normally never play such a vocal/ beat styled track except to be ironic, thou "Guilt" should get play in the "all-gay" clubs where they play the effete diva stuff.

it's really not a bad track... just a bit too much, and New Order diluted... you could almost say its so dorky its cool from that viewpoint

Already had a DJ (DJ Muff to hint that it wasn't a gay club either!) play it at a bar/club called the Fox. Everybody else who was on the dancefloor seemed to get into it. Most of them though probably weren't New Order fans. I've said it once, I will say it again, this site contains New Order's harshest critics.

Yeah, Guilt is getting the best response out of people I know... I guess most people are are just brooding goth holdovers from 1983, and this (like Krafty) is just a bit too upbeat for them ;)

Where is this fast synth-line that they're talking about? I can't find it.

Originally posted by NObabe > Originally posted by Wasimple> > > > Originally posted by Thataboy> > > > Why the hate for female backing vocals? I think they sound great. >

Its because I'm sexist. I'm glad Gillian's out of the band n'all.

"I want your lurv" sounds like its coming from a bleeding gremlin never mind Ms Zee.

With a name like Wasim Younis you better watch out or else Homeland Security will be at your door very soon!

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by NObabe> > > > Originally posted by Wasimple> > > > > > > Originally posted by Thataboy> > > > > > Why the hate for female backing vocals? I think they sound great. > > >

Its because I'm sexist. I'm glad Gillian's out of the band n'all.

"I want your lurv" sounds like its coming from a bleeding gremlin never mind Ms Zee.

With a name like Wasim Younis you better watch out or else Homeland Security will be at your door very soon!

I'm from bleeding Putney!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Spotnick> Obviously, those people probably don't like remixes too.>

I don't think that's entirely true, Nic. I'm liking this track more each day but it's not really a very good dance track, is it? It's just a bit girlie and the track's got no bollocks whatsoever. Sounds like the PSBs till Hooky finally makes an appearance. To me it sounds like dance music for people who ain't really into dance music. Synths do not necessarily equate to 'dance' music. Be interesting if they play this one live, but then I'd hope they'd arrange it a bit better with more oomph from the start and certainly Hooky appearing much earlier in the mix.

Talk about pulling the carpet from under your feet. I agree 100% with this post and was about to post exactly the same sentiments. Those who are really into dance probably feel this track comes up short, as evidenced by several posters here. It definitely has a PSB feel to it, Raise the Pressure even. It's a NO track your chick will probably love.

Unfortunately the dance music world has evolved a long way since NO were part of the pioneering crossover phase and they themselves admit they find it hard to keep up any more. For me, the classic NO dance tracks were driven by electro-style components and have a more organic, ballsy quality to them. Less cheese. I don't mind this track but I get the feeling it has a short shelf life and has been a little overrated by some here in all the excitement.

Put it up against something like Out of Control and there's just no contest.

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Originally posted by Ally3000 Ah fuck it. I really like the track... I love the intro vocals "Just another day in the week..." up until the "I need your love" which even still I can tolerate as compared to all the fuck ups on Get Ready it's Shakespeare. It's a good dance tune, I think it was obviously written in mind for something to dance to at the Hacienda. Take it as it was meant, with a pile of salt; it's not Ceremony nor was it meant to be. Just a good dance tune. It's incredibly remixable, the lyrics about "love" may piss some fans off but that's frankly their problem. It's obviously just a glorious electro/house New Order tune and if this is the direction they're taking from now on then I'd like some more. It's better than the utter samey-rock shite of Slow Jam/Rock The Shack in any case. Anyone who says otherwise basically doesn't like dance music and I would readily question their validity as a New Order fan. How can you like the band and not dance music? They're as electronic as any of the other 1980s electro-music pioneers.Did anyone notice that Barney's comparison of "Love" in the intro verses are pretty similar to his ones in the chorus of Crystal? I.e. "Here comes love/It's like honey, you can buy it with money" vs. "Real love can't be bought, it is wild and it can't be caught/Real love can't be sowed, it's another colour than gold".Weird eh? Ally.

First off, you are not in position to 'question a fan's validity'.

I actually prefer it to the tracks you mentioned but that is only because RTS is a pile of wank. The song is decent until that absolutely horrible "I need your love" line, not so much the line itself but the execution. It is in no way a 'glorious tune' - I hope I am still a valid fan Ally. ;)

Perhaps I just misunderstood. It seemed to me as though you said anyone who doesn't like Guilt... is not a NewOrder fan. Which is bollocks. But if you are refering to NewOrder's electronic past in general than yes if you don't like that you probably don't like NewOrder.

Originally posted by Ally3000 It's obviously just a glorious electro/house New Order tune and if this is the direction they're taking from now on then I'd like some more. It's better than the utter samey-rock shite of Slow Jam/Rock The Shack in any case. Anyone who says otherwise basically doesn't like dance music and I would readily question their validity as a New Order fan. How can you like the band and not dance music?

Sorry dude but this statement is absolute rubbish.

I've been into dance music for, a rough guess, longer than 90% of members of this forum. I accept that "Rock the Shack" wasn't the most popular NO track ever but I can tell you that seeing the band kicking out the jams playing it live will probably walk all over any sort of 'live' performance of "Guilt..".

Feel free to state your opinion but questioning the validity of fellow NO fans for having alternative viewpoints is asking for trouble.

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by Spotnick Go back 3.5 years in time, I'm pretty sure the same discussion was going on about Someone Like You...

Someone Like You pisses over Guilt imo.

Originally posted by Spotnick Go back 3.5 years in time, I'm pretty sure the same discussion was going on about Someone Like You...

Someone Like You pisses over Guilt imo.

Originally posted by depthcharge

I've been into dance music for, a rough guess, longer than 90% of members of this forum. I accept that "Rock the Shack" wasn't the most popular NO track ever but I can tell you that seeing the band kicking out the jams playing it live will probably walk all over any sort of 'live' performance of "Guilt..".

*Well, maybe Rock The Shack isn't the best example, I don't know if they'll play it again as they clearly perceived a cold reaction from the audience when they played it on their last tour, though it's weird they haven't learnt the lesson and came with Working Overtime this year, which is, basically, an even more retro B side of Rock The Shack... But it's true that you can be a New Order fan without liking their dance tracks, though they're missing a lot... Myself have been first a Joy Division-only fan, then I started liking Movement, then some of the guitar tracks like Leave Me Alone... Then one day I've had the enlightment and Blue Monday became my favourite song, and actually the most of my best songs are now dance or electronic: Perfect Kiss, True Faith, Vanishing Point... But many people are stuck at an earlier stage, they usually prefer Joy Division, or are mainly fans of other guitar bands like The Smiths, and are also New Order fans but don't like the more dance stuff... they may like songs like Krafty though, because even if there are a couple of electro sounds they are just secondary and it remains a rock song... their favourite songs usually are on Side A of Brotherhood, and then stuff like Run, Everyone Everywhere, the most of Get Ready (which actually has been loved by many old Joy Division fans who stopped following the band in the last 20 years) etc.

Originally posted by Mick Aneworderfan *Well, maybe Rock The Shack isn't the best example, I don't know if they'll play it again as they clearly perceived a cold reaction from the audience when they played it on their last tour, though it's weird they haven't learnt the lesson and came with Working Overtime this year, which is, basically, an even more retro B side of Rock The Shack...

Different tracks are received differently in different parts of the world. I caught several of their GR tour shows and RTS rocked it here. The likes of Blue Monday and Touched had a rather tired air about them.

The band consciously wanted to include a pure dance number for this album given how favourably some of the dancier tracks were received on the last tour. Unfortunately, GIAUE is a long way from the quality of BLT or TPK.

:\pimp3:

Well I really like "Guilt....", and I am right.

Well that bloody solves it then, doesn't it.

Lock the thread!

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by depthcharge Well that bloody solves it then, doesn't it.Lock the thread!:\pimp3:

Right on bro!