Are Lyrics Important?

Obviously Barney's been slated for some of the less than inspirational lyrics on Get Ready. The thing is, I don't think it makes a great deal of difference whether the lyrics are good or pap - on NO or any other band for that matter.

If I want opinions I'll read one of those big papers, or if I want clever word play I'll read a poem or something. The uninformed opinions of the average rock/pop star mean jack to me.

Anyone else feel the same?

Yeah, me snake. For me it's the music that moves me, not some 'change the world' speel from an 'are'nt I so important' pop star.

Isn't there enough about us, to be moved by both?

Personally, NO to me can get away with naff lyrics because their music is so good. Bernard usually comes up with remarkable melody lines which masquerade the lyrical content. When all said and done though, his melodies coupled with a great lyric really hits the spot.

So in essence I don't mind it when their bad so much, but when there good that really stands out.

Doctor, doctor, I can feel a 'best lyrics' thread coming on!

Good lyrics are not necessary for a good song, but good lyrics can be an enhancement, and NO have been capable of memorable lyrics. Leave Me Alone wouldn't be the same without the lyrics. Temptation wouldn't be the same without "Oh, you've got green eyes" etc. Face Up wouldn't be the same without "Guess what I'm gonna do to you." I've recently several times mentioned "You search your empty brain in vain" from This Time of Night. "It's never enough until your heart stops beating" from Shellshock. The lyrics are very important to Close Range.

I could go on and on. So I disagree, Seb.

So what ruins 'Rotten Snack' and 'Slow Death' Patrick?? Is it bad music or bad lyrics??

Originally posted by Muffy So what ruins 'Rotten Snack' and 'Slow Death' Patrick?? Is it bad music or bad lyrics??

Slow Death, Muffy, contains an almost inconceivable marriage of bad music and even worse lyrics. It's truly superhuman in being bad on every level.

Although I like RTS, I think that for those who don't it's the music rather than the lyrics that they find offensive.

On We All Stand Retching, it's definitely the music.

Well Patty, the one thing that really guiles me about The Shithouse song is the very dire melodic melody line of the verse from our Bernard. It is truly catastrophic and could lead to war. This dirty singing with a horrible dose of 'I've been to Timbuktu and was unable to bargain a man down to only 3 groats for his donkey' is absolute tik pip.

Throw me a Lifeline on the other hand, is beauty for the masses.

Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Muffy > So what ruins 'Rotten Snack' and 'Slow Death' Patrick?? Is it bad music or bad lyrics??

Slow Death, Muffy, contains an almost inconceivable marriage of bad music and even worse lyrics. It's truly superhuman in being bad on every level.

Although I like RTS, I think that for those who don't it's the music rather than the lyrics that they find offensive.

On We All Stand Retching, it's definitely the music.

For me with Slow Death it's the bad lyrics but I think the tune itself has a certain appeal and it could have been a much better song had the lyric been better. With RTS it's the fact that it just does'nt have that something that identifies it as a NO track, it sounds exactly like a Primal Scream track, a bad one! With We All Skip This One it's the slow plod of the music, definately.

Pantomime Horse have you ever listened to the Peel Sessions 'We All Can't Wait to Sit Down and Drop our Instruments in Favour of a Light Snack'?... because if you haven't, then you might be speaking out of line.

I say this purely to broaden your New Order search engine capabilities. With any luck some may back me up on this... the Peel a Potato version is better, and that's the truth (and if it isn't it should be).

SuperiorMonkeyBall you know when you mentioned to me to listen to MoleHunt with the lights out and a strong pipe in my hands?... well do the same with 'We Are About to Commence This Song - Parental Guidance is Advised'. I think you'll appreciate it more.

LIght up a decent cigar, swig a flaggan of the finest brandy and relax. You'll soon see that the horrible dithering of the tempo makes way for a true belter. It must be appreciated for its unique'ness... wherea the Shithouse effort has no redeeming feature other than the 15 seconds of drum machine at the beginning.

Slow Jam Tarts is just absolutely a horrid waste of my own listening ability and doesn't deserve any more comment, except to reaffirm its total and utter dog turd - the white turds that you used to see when you were small.. a particularly cacka variant.

Well, Huntsy, as somebody pointed out (was it you or was it Muffy?) I ranked RTS #9 on GR, so I confess it's usually in the skipped column for me and as a result I'm a little at a loss to discuss it in detail.

But of course one of the things we do agree on is that everything about Leave Moe A Lien is perfect.

Originally posted by Huntsman SuperiorMonkeyBall you know when you mentioned to me to listen to MoleHunt with the lights out and a strong pipe in my hands?... well do the same with 'We Are About to Commence This Song - Parental Guidance is Advised'. I think you'll appreciate it more.LIght up a decent cigar, swig a flaggan of the finest brandy and relax. You'll soon see that the horrible dithering of the tempo makes way for a true belter. It must be appreciated for its unique'ness... wherea the Shithouse effort has no redeeming feature other than the 15 seconds of drum machine at the beginning.Slow Jam Tarts is just absolutely a horrid waste of my own listening ability and doesn't deserve any more comment, except to reaffirm its total and utter dog turd - the white turds that you used to see when you were small.. a particularly cacka variant.

It's been done baby, many, many times. It's a song in the wrong place at the wrong time, as someone else recently said, placed as it is between two belters. Maybe if it had been a b-side it would have been better recieved, though I admit, once the first minute is over you sort of get into it a bit.

I wonder why it is that you don't seem to see the white poopy-doos on the pavements anymore, are the nations pooches being fed a better brand of horsey these days do you think?

Yes P, I get a real mule type kick at the fact I have a transatlantic likeminded thespian who digs the Bone song.

The word 'perfect' is a fine and truuly apt description and if you'll permit me, I would like to use it in future conversation.

Well, Muffy, I guess it is true that on Slow James it is really the lyrics that rise to an unmatched level of badness.

There is a reason that dogs don't produce white dollops these days and I've temporarily forgotten why. I'm going to ask me bird who has a memory over 20GB... which is sometimes unfortunate as you can imagine... for instance she claims I was shouting 'There shooting at us Johnny' the last time I couldn't manouvere correctly due to excess beverage intake. (which is out of character for me - I usually stick to pepsi max and light snacks).

Maybe we could start a 'how many ways to slag Slow Shite' thread just for you peoples.

I tapped out the topic info (I'm actually doing some work today..woohoo) in a bit of a rush and reading again it doesn't quite portray what I was trying to say. The lyrics can form part of the music and sound brilliant and memorable..Pattys 'You've got green eyes' suggestion is spot on...Great to sing along to and helps make the song the giant it is.

...but if you took the Lyrics to Temptation out, and wrote them on a piece of paper, they don't sound nearly so profound. a similar example on GR maybe Turn My Way, where the chorus lyrics go great with the tune - but seem a bit Shit if you just spoke them for example.

Huntsy, the only version of We All Run Screaming that I know is the PCL one. I will keep in mind your suggestion.

Yes, the knowledge that we share an awe for Linoleum is comforting, and we may agree to agree that "perfect" is perfect for it.

....still making no sense to anyone. ummmmmmm.....

I think the lyrics work on GR because they fit nicely with the songs (I'm ignoring Slow Jam completely when I talk about GR) despite the fact a monkey could have written more thoughtful meanderings

Well, yes, Seb, I agree that the music without the lyrics would still be something, whereas the lyrics without the music are just marks on a page.

Originally posted by Patrick Huntsy, the only version of We All Run Screaming that I know is the PCL one. I will keep in mind your suggestion.Yes, the knowledge that we share an awe for Linoleum is comforting, and we may agree to agree that "perfect" is perfect for it.

Before reading views on this site I always though WAS weren't too bad. Its a bit of a plodder but sets the scene nicely for the rest of PCL I'd always thought.

Worst NO song thing I can think of a the mo is Soviet of Electronic. Shit, how bad was that. Sounded like a 4 year old playing on a woolworths 5.99 keyboard

Originally posted by Patrick Well, yes, Seb, I agree that the music without the lyrics would still be something, whereas the lyrics without the music are just marks on a page.

I've read more than a few 'marks on a page' that have made me weep in my time Patsy, as i'm sure you have too.

Where's Buster these days?

I 'reckon he's living in the French forum for good, occassionally coming out to say hello. Its upsetting I think, as the whole gangs in on this thread which is beautiful.

Snake... the comment about Soviet does a disservice to Woolies, for £5.99 you can get a far superior sound quality.

He(Buster) posted at 7.11 est on the cack thread

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by Patrick> Well, yes, Seb, I agree that the music without the lyrics would still be something, whereas the lyrics without the music are just marks on a page.>

I've read more than a few 'marks on a page' that have made me weep in my time Patsy, as i'm sure you have too.

Well, yes, Muffy, you're right about that.

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by Patrick> Well, yes, Seb, I agree that the music without the lyrics would still be something, whereas the lyrics without the music are just marks on a page.>

I've read more than a few 'marks on a page' that have made me weep in my time Patsy, as i'm sure you have too.

Do bank statements count?

Originally posted by Huntsman I 'reckon he's living in the French forum for good, occassionally coming out to say hello. Its upsetting I think, as the whole gangs in on this thread which is beautiful.Snake... the comment about Soviet does a disservice to Woolies, for £5.99 you can get a far superior sound quality.

I can't even remember which one Soviet is, and the lyrics are missing here. Can you remind me, Huntsy?

Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Huntsman> I 'reckon he's living in the French forum for good, occassionally coming out to say hello. Its upsetting I think, as the whole gangs in on this thread which is beautiful.> > Snake... the comment about Soviet does a disservice to Woolies, for £5.99 you can get a far superior sound quality.> >

I can't even remember which one Soviet is, and the lyrics are missing here. Can you remind me, Huntsy?

It's the shit thing without any lyrics

Originally posted by Shug I go along with the first few posts - because the music is that good - the lyrics don't bother me that much. It's usually some knobend at work who slags the lyrics - and when you try to explain why New Order are so far above everyone else - with their illustrious history and their beliefs - all you get is...well how many Number 1's did they have It's these ignorant fuckers that really get on my tits, if it was all about Number 1's and getting as high up in the charts as you can - why fucking bother?When you've got some twat who can get to Number 1 - by recording a "song" from his fucking bedroom - is this what it's all about?.....don't fucking think so

Nice one Shugster, I knew I could rely on you

Sorry guys, I don't post much on either forum right now (french or english). Well, I'd rather say 'as much", seeing as my post count still goes up and, right now, it's mainly because of the English one.

But work don't leave me a lot of space right now to post and this week I'm sick as hell and my vision is blurred, can't hardly read the other's posts...

Thanks for the concern anyway...

And, by the way, I like the live version of "We All Stare" on PFD...

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy But work don't leave me a lot of space right now to post and this week I'm sick as hell and my vision is blurred, can't hardly read the other's posts...Thanks for the concern anyway...

Sounds a bit dodge mate :(. get well soon anyway ;)

Have you been to a doctor, Klumpy? One time I had double vision and it turned out to be meningitis.

Forgive me for rudely interrupting, but...

isnt NO's appeal largely down to Barneys enigmatic lyrics and delivery? Part of their huge appeal is that they dont 'sound' like other bands. So what if the lyrics are a few verses short of a chorus ( !) sometimes less is more - draw your own conclusions to what he is gettin at in the lyrics and you wont be disappointed. :)

Well yes, Inta Don, the delivery is VERY important. Every time I hear Bono wailing away, I think this is why I love NO.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. I'm going to the doctor in a few hours (couldn't get an apoitment sooner)...

As for the lyrics, I don't care that much because English isn't my language.

I know this is a very important factor because crap French lyrics can really get on my nerves...

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy Thanks for the kind words, everyone.I'm going to the doctor in a few hours (couldn't get an apoitment sooner)...

Buster if you were in this country (UK), you'd have to wait weeks to see a doctor!!

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by Buster Klumpy> Thanks for the kind words, everyone.> I'm going to the doctor in a few hours (couldn't get an apoitment sooner)...

Buster if you were in this country (UK), you'd have to wait weeks to see a doctor!!

And then they'd give you the wrong diagnosis

Nice country you have...

I thought the common practice was to prescribe a course of antibiotics, then when they don't work,refer you to a specialist,you wait 4 months for an appointment, by which time you either get better or are rushed into casualty, I say rushed, there's not much point rushing, as you'll still have to wait 10 hours to be seen, I'm gonna change my name to M. Gray today.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© I thought the common practice was to prescribe a course of antibiotics, then when they don't work,refer you to a specialist,you wait 4 months for an appointment, by which time you either get better or are rushed into casualty, I say rushed, there's not much point rushing, as you'll still have to wait 10 hours to be seen,

.....while you wait in the cold on a trolley!!

worst thing about it is paying a couple of hundred quid National Insurance, every bastard month, without a choice, when you know youre just going to end up with a shite service if a service at all. i've not actually visited a quacks for over 3 years and am not signed up to one at the mo. Yet I'm still paying tonnes of my hard earned dosh so it can go towards compensation claims coz the Docs haven't been trained properly in the fucking first place. Makes me very angry.

Oi Briggsy, if you're paying a couple of hundred quid a month NI you must be taking home over £2000.00 go private ya cunt.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Oi Briggsy, if you're paying a couple of hundred quid a month NI you must be taking home over £2000.00 go private ya cunt.

have you ever tried livin' in London mate? I'm a lucky bastard, my rent is only £400 a month, and that based in Elephant and Castle which is about on a par with Peckham - sharing a house with 4 other people. then you've got the £80 a month travel card, the Student loans, the extortionate council tax, etc etc

It aint quite £200 quid I pay either, I was exaggerating for effect.

Let's get this straight... is Buster seeing a doctor the same day he realised he was ill?... how unfair is that?

In the UK its easier getting into Lord of the Rings 2 weeks before premier night.

:hat"

Let's get this straight... is Buster seeing a doctor the same day he realised he was ill?... how unfair is that?

In the UK its easier getting into Lord of the Rings 2 weeks before premier night.

He sounds like he's whinging that he's had to wait for a couple of hours

Originally posted by Seb Briggs > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©> Oi Briggsy, if you're paying a couple of hundred quid a month NI you must be taking home over £2000.00 go private ya cunt.

have you ever tried livin' in London mate? I'm a lucky bastard, my rent is only £400 a month, and that based in Elephant and Castle which is about on a par with Peckham - sharing a house with 4 other people. then you've got the £80 a month travel card, the Student loans, the extortionate council tax, etc etc

It aint quite £200 quid I pay either, I was exaggerating for effect.

Well as long as you where exaggerating for effect Snakey, I'll gladly let you continue to fight it out with us proles for err, non-existant health care.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs He sounds like he's whinging that he's had to wait for a couple of hours

I wasn't whining, Seb, just telling. I guess, judging from what you're all telling, we're pretty lucky, here, in Belgium...

Originally posted by Patrick Good lyrics are not necessary for a good song, but good lyrics can be an enhancement, and NO have been capable of memorable lyrics. Leave Me Alone wouldn't be the same without the lyrics. Temptation wouldn't be the same without "Oh, you've got green eyes" etc. Face Up wouldn't be the same without "Guess what I'm gonna do to you." I've recently several times mentioned "You search your empty brain in vain" from This Time of Night. "It's never enough until your heart stops beating" from Shellshock. The lyrics are very important to Close Range.I could go on and on. So I disagree, Seb.

have to agree almost word for word with patrick True Faith lyrics also...could probably find dozens more, but maybe its just New Order???

Thanks Jim.

i agree with patrick on this. are lyrics important? yes and no! ridin' fences all day.

Buster, We All Stand is a great performance on PFD. We should try to get to the bottom of the Close Range lyrics soon. I think they are very interesting. As for the lyrics in general, i feel like barney's relying too heavily on chorus' and obvious rhymes. songs in the good ole days didn't necessarily repeat the chorus over and over and every line didn't rhyme. you can guess the song titles now adays by listening to the chorus and nothing else. why did they change Dream On to Close Range? And Run this River DRy to Sabotage? Probably so they could keep from having every song title in the lyrics. Barney's lost his edge for song writing. he used to pull out the Enigmatic lyrics (low-life is the best for lyrics) and now it's all "i'll be there for you when you want me to, i'll stand by your side like i always do, in the dead of night it wll be alright, cuz i'll be there for you when you want me too" it's catchy but stupid like so many of the new songs. Why do they write stadium rock now? will they tour with U2 because Boner likes LWTUA? Barney already has the "Thank You ---insert town name here---" down and Hooky would wet himself to strut in front of the audience The Edge gets to enjoy. If they do, they should wear their Touched costumes and find sponsorship with Geritol and Pop Tarts (sugar frosting).

I agree some of the lyrics on Grrready are pretty lax, i mean even the acclaimed Crystal bemuses me...

"Here comes love, it's like honey you can't buy it with money," what the bloody hell is all that about!??? just go down your local deli or tesco's for a jar of honey mate :)

something more like - 'here comes love, its not funny when you buy it with money' would have been more suitable perhaps..?

C'mon Barney wheres that jagged knife gone you used to cut your lyrics on...?

Do we have to rehash the Crystal lyrics for you Inta? Those are two seperate phrases. Read it like this for more enjoyment and less cringing.

Here comes Love - it's (love) like honey You can't buy it (love) with money. Didn't you take any poetry classes in college?

The real problem is not what the pronouns signify but the words he chooses to convey his message. They are so boring an predictable. I knew the words to Get Ready a week after i got it. Write some of the Get Ready lyrics on paper and see if you would be satisfied with the outcome. Like i said before, i prefer lyrics to be disjointed (Karl Hyde- Underworld) rather than sugar coated and predictable. The glorious music keeps me listening to Get Ready but I hope they put at least one instrumental on the next (fingers crossed) album. Why no instrumentals on Get Ready? Another sell out if you ask me. Speaking of sell-out the book i refered Jerry Bible thumper to has an interesting quote from Barney "I consider selling out to be the point where you no longer use the standards you started out with" thats a bit parphrased but the meaning is the same. Well, since Republic, New Order have been major sell out's according to their own words. Remember Hook claimed that it was a rip-off to include singles on albums and i'm sure if they would have been presented with the idea of releasing 3 different singles with only 2 real songs on all 3 and loaded with horrible remixes in the early days, they would have said "Fuck off" now it's standard NewORder practice. Rip off fans, Play greatest hits shows note for note night after night etc...I love them still but they are now SELLOUTS. They will never indulge in another masterpiece like Perfect Kiss of Blue Monday because they are too mainstream and not adventerous enough to pull it off. They need other people (chemical brothers) to do the interesting bits for them. Other sad but true stories later in the day.....

true, but bear in mind they are gettng on a bit - as Barney said he wants to leave the dancey adventurous stuff to new groups, and rightly so - afterall they've been knocking about for 25 odd years. I was jsut very grateful to get the chance to see them live, and add a few more cracking tunes, such as Crystal,PN and TMW to my collection

Geaux Hagen

I kind of get your poetry drift...

on the other hand i still aint got a fuckin clue why he's harping on about not being able to buy honey ;)

but hey - thats half the appeal!!!

Remember, the lyrics he sings aren't the real lyrics: "I'm a man in a rage With a girl half my age."

Originally posted by Patrick Remember, the lyrics he sings aren't the real lyrics: "I'm a man in a rageWith a girl half my age."

"Here's comes my love Her names Bunny I just bought Her with money I'm not alive anymore She shot me in the head!"

Personally, I do not listen to NO for the lyrics, although there are lots of good ones that Barney's done over the years. The lyrics on Movement to me seemed like they were an idea about what Ian would've written were he still there, and those circumstances would dictate that the results would seem forced. I believe Barney has admitted that much in the past, but Movement is the one NO album where I just get lost in the music.

I don't find many of Barney's lyrics embarrassing for the most part, with only a couple of exceptions (RTS, for one), but no one is perfect in that regard. I also glad that he doesn't go for the clever style ala XTC and Squeeze, but the simple and straight forward style of the words helps embellish the intended emotions.

Also, I'm glad that Barney doesn't go for the Mac/Bunnymen approach and overload the song with lots of words. The one thing that sticks in my mind is hearing the Bunnymen's song The Game, and wishing that Ian would shut the hell up and let Will play some guitar.

shug its not a bad opening line but it goes seriously downhill after that..

Actually Shug, it's the chorus that gets to me. All I can think of when I hear the word Shack is the basketball player for the Lakers, Shaquille O'Neal. Agree that the opening line is great, but I just don't need that Shaq image rolling around in my ahead more than it already is.

Originally posted by Shug VG & Green...and nearly everyone else....I think we're just going to have to agree to differ on this one;)

I quite like it Shug. Far better than the dismal Slow Jam

Green, your statement about Mac/bunnyman loading his songs with lyrics sounds a lot like whats wrong with Slow Jam. Too many words in that song and none of them are any good (except him wanting a beer).

Originally posted by Shug I wish people would fucking lay off Rock The Shack - I for one - fucking love the song, and as fer the lyrics "I've been accused of everything, from Timbuktu to Old Berlin" Give Barney a bit of credit here - I think that is a great fucking opening line...seriously

Shug's got a point here...not that Shock the Rock is one of my favorites on the album, but the words, in some parts of the song, can certainly be relevent probably for the whole band

I'd have to admit the song is growing on me a bit, definitly not top five, but it has been shuffling up the rest of the album tracks for me