Q Review

Seb Briggs wrote: I find it hard to fathom what people want from New Order nowadays. As I've said elsewhere, they won't do another monster like True Faith or Temptation I doubt. The;re getting on for 50 feckin years old now. From what I've heard of WFTSC it's good pop music and far better than most of what else is doing the rounds in the music world nowadays.

It's prompted me a bit to visit some other old NO albums that I haven't heard for a while, and I've come to the conclusion in many cases they're not actually THAT good. Did people when they were released seriously salivate over tracks like Chemical, Avalanche, State of the Nation, We all stand, half of Brotherhhod, all of Movement? Technique in my opinion is the only great album they've done. I reckon this one, from what I've heard will not be far behind those albums. In all honesty NO are a singles band more than anything else.

Like Sebs says, they are (and always have been) frequently a bit wank. But like I drunkenly told someone in the pub the other day, it's like a long-term relationship: you still love 'em, even though they're sometimes embarassing and piss you off a lot of the time. Though you might have strayed, you couldn't imagine your life without them. And when they get it right, they hit you in the heart like no-one else ever could.

For me, at least, there's still this appeal....

[Removes heart from sleeve ]

Ally3000 wrote:

Grahame Ferguson wrote: This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Bollocks! This is one of the most laughable posts I've seen on here for a while. "The silent majority"?? So everyone who views the site regularly but doesn't post a hell of alot is in this illustrious "silent-but-we-think-the-new-album-is-duff" group? (Am I misunderstanding here?) It's not a "duff" album to alot of people on this board, including I'm sure a serious amount of "silent lurkers". Defending that the new LP deserves only 2 stars in the piss poor rag that is Q is incredible. Also, no-one was asking you to write an essay as to why you like Q, simply state a few of its strengths as opposed to its weakenesses which are all too apparent as over three members in this thread (including me) have stated. Simply saying "it makes me happy" as in for myself "a nice bit of toast makes me happy" isn't the most "pin pointed" of responses. Not meaning to sound bitchy but I like nailing down my points, however if you consider the "Q of today" a good mag then that's up to you and I respect that.

However and to be honest refusing to give the new material the band have produced a "decent" chance (i.e. might it be that the new album is a grower?) is entirely your loss. Lots of people on here are really enjoying WFTSC, and find Krafty a good single that will dent the charts and expand the band's influence. Indeed alot of people have panned "Krafty" simply because it sounds optomistic, but that on it's own is a shit reason to pan any song. Writing off the new LP as "duff" and simply looking forward to the 102043th live rendition of Temptation and Blue Monday is the most boring attitude I've come across from a New Order fan. Why look forward to the live gigs if you cannot enjoy the new material they produce on record which will most likely make up a large part of the set? Granted you're under no obligation to love the new LP, but I'm convinced anyone writing off all 11 tracks from this new album as a "2 out of 5" effort have got their heads up their arses. But that's not really my problem, only their loss.

All in my humble opinion of course,

Ally.

I gave up essay writing when I graduated ten years ago (2:1 in Sociology from Glasgow Uni, robbed of a first!). Hence I cannae be bothered defending to somebody why I like Q feckin Magazine!!! As I said I like it cos it entertains me. No more, no less. Apologies for not intellectualising that to your satisfaction. I probably couldn't deliver four paragraphs on why I like toast come to think of it. Bet you could!

Sorry if that makes me un-cool and sorry if I just don't get how the "Q of today" is so much worse than it was in the past. On that note I remember Q when Paul Mcartney, Led Zep and Fleetwood Mac were regular cover stars. Is this the era you're refering to?

Anyway back onto toast. Here's one for you....

"Toast is nice and the toast eating experience is enhanced by the application of a generous helping of Flora Lite."

Discuss.

NB There's a 5000 word limit Ally.

Grahame Ferguson wrote:

Ally3000 wrote:

Grahame Ferguson wrote: This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Bollocks! This is one of the most laughable posts I've seen on here for a while. "The silent majority"?? So everyone who views the site regularly but doesn't post a hell of alot is in this illustrious "silent-but-we-think-the-new-album-is-duff" group? (Am I misunderstanding here?) It's not a "duff" album to alot of people on this board, including I'm sure a serious amount of "silent lurkers". Defending that the new LP deserves only 2 stars in the piss poor rag that is Q is incredible. Also, no-one was asking you to write an essay as to why you like Q, simply state a few of its strengths as opposed to its weakenesses which are all too apparent as over three members in this thread (including me) have stated. Simply saying "it makes me happy" as in for myself "a nice bit of toast makes me happy" isn't the most "pin pointed" of responses. Not meaning to sound bitchy but I like nailing down my points, however if you consider the "Q of today" a good mag then that's up to you and I respect that.

However and to be honest refusing to give the new material the band have produced a "decent" chance (i.e. might it be that the new album is a grower?) is entirely your loss. Lots of people on here are really enjoying WFTSC, and find Krafty a good single that will dent the charts and expand the band's influence. Indeed alot of people have panned "Krafty" simply because it sounds optomistic, but that on it's own is a shit reason to pan any song. Writing off the new LP as "duff" and simply looking forward to the 102043th live rendition of Temptation and Blue Monday is the most boring attitude I've come across from a New Order fan. Why look forward to the live gigs if you cannot enjoy the new material they produce on record which will most likely make up a large part of the set? Granted you're under no obligation to love the new LP, but I'm convinced anyone writing off all 11 tracks from this new album as a "2 out of 5" effort have got their heads up their arses. But that's not really my problem, only their loss.

All in my humble opinion of course,

Ally.

I gave up essay writing when I graduated ten years ago (2:1 in Sociology from Glasgow Uni, robbed of a first!). Hence I cannae be bothered defending to somebody why I like Q feckin Magazine!!! As I said I like it cos it entertains me. No more, no less. Apologies for not intellectualising that to your satisfaction. I probably couldn't deliver four paragraphs on why I like toast come to think of it. Bet you could!

Sorry if that makes me un-cool and sorry if I just don't get how the "Q of today" is so much worse than it was in the past. On that note I remember Q when Paul Mcartney, Led Zep and Fleetwood Mac were regular cover stars. Is this the era you're refering to?

Anyway back onto toast. Here's one for you....

"Toast is nice and the toast eating experience is enhanced by the application of a generous helping of Flora Lite."

Discuss.

NB There's a 5000 word limit Ally.

Grahame is spot-on. I think the "Q" of today is pretty shit, but it was so much worse in the past when it was a byword for what I will politely call Tedious Grandad Rock.

I got the Q special on Electronic music (with DepechMode on the cover) - that was quite good; packed full of articles on bands I liked or remembered fondly. & it was amazing how often NO were mentioned - I dont think there was 1 major article which didnt mention them somewhere, ant these are decent sized articles that you can really get in to

Besides that, I dont buy Q more than 1 a year at this stage - the '100Best' thing gets damn boring after a few years! there seem to be precious few decent articles in it nowadays - they must be saved for the 'special editions'

I stopped buying Q the moment they gave 'Room On Fire's Strokes five stars and hailed it as classic...

That record turned out to be one of the crap of 2003..even Strokes themselves admitted it.

Elitist point of view my arse, even my 65 yo uncle Casper knows good music whenever he hears one, as he'd be seen dancing to I Told You So recently

Q mags? what a bunch of wankers who got off to U2 bollocks on regular basis

Trust your ears instead

[end transmission]

well ive been a jd/new order fan since day dot,and ive just heard the new album. and quite frankly i couldnt care less what sort of review it gets in any mag let alone in q magazine,i think wftsc is possibly one of if not the best example of new orders range and breadth of styles of music to date. in fact ive just had a bunch of people dancing away to guilt is a useless emotion and they dont even know who new order are? so to the posters in ere that are whining (not as good as "insert new order track or album of your choice here"). just go n fuck off,in fact before you go kiss my arse,in fact kiss my arse whilst im holding open both cheeks. new order are for once bending over backwards to apease their fans,they want rock,they want pop,they want electro,they want gigs in uk,states,mars,orions belt ect ,and for once its looking like its all on offer ,so give em a break,go n buy the album,i may have d/loaded it but i will certainly be parting with my cash went it comes out.

mike powell wrote: well ive been a jd/new order fan since day dot,and ive just heard the new album. and quite frankly i couldnt care less what sort of review it gets in any mag let alone in q magazine,i think wftsc is possibly one of if not the best example of new orders range and breadth of styles of music to date. in fact ive just had a bunch of people dancing away to guilt is a useless emotion and they dont even know who new order are? so to the posters in ere that are whining (not as good as "insert new order track or album of your choice here"). just go n fuck off,in fact before you go kiss my arse,in fact kiss my arse whilst im holding open both cheeks. new order are for once bending over backwards to apease their fans,they want rock,they want pop,they want electro,they want gigs in uk,states,mars,orions belt ect ,and for once its looking like its all on offer ,so give em a break,go n buy the album,i may have d/loaded it but i will certainly be parting with my cash went it comes out.

I'm sensing a fascination with men kissing your batty (as you "hold open your cheeks"). Very descriptive. Some may say too much information. Have you ever considered contributing to the letters page of "Honcho" magazine? Prick.

I've never read Q. Aren't magazines a bit 20th Century?

Couple of points.

Attempting to speak on behalf of a silent majority strikes me as a bit off. As I'm sure silent majorities everywhere will agree.

Accusing people of lacking objectivity when they're able to demonstrate it, is also slightly awry. I'm able to do so on a track by track basis and an album by album basis. I don't much like Jetstream, I Told You So or Working Overtime. I don't like much of Republic or Get Ready.

Hank Wiseass© wrote:

Attempting to speak on behalf of a silent majority strikes me as a bit off. As I'm sure silent majorities everywhere will agree.

Well, I had to un-lurk at some point, might as well do it now I think 2 stars is harsh, but 5 would be a exaggeration just as much. There, a once-part of a silent majority with yet another opinion to add to the mix.

Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

Seb Briggs wrote: Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

I'm too young to be old skool!!! Technique is my favourite album by any artist ever. Full stop. I want buried with it. Regret is my favourite NO track ever but Republic is my least favourite album. Contradictions, eh?!

I'm in agreement with you that WFTSC is better than Republic but to me that's not saying much. Get Ready was above average but not great. Having re-visited it recently though I'd have to say it's better than WFTSC but not by much. In fact I find both albums very simialr.

And yes I think musically WFTSC is a poor album and I believe that history will judge it to be so. But as we all need to keep in mind this is all about opinions which, as a wise man one said, are like arseholes...everybody's got one!

The new album is OK...no more no less.

They will never replicate the beauty of Technique.

Its great they are still producing good music,creating lots of interest and playing gigs/festivals.

I struggle to find the time or motivation to catch them live now. I travelled all over watching the Order during 85-89...I went to some of the best venues and had some of my best times. I am 37 this year and would hate standing in a big field 3 miles from the stage. If they announced they were playing the Leadmill or Rock city i might just move my butt;)

Love this site..it rekindled a dying flame that was my love of New Order...I just hope they bow out at the right time.

Future Music has a SYSTEM 7 feature

I've never taken much interest in the opinions of Q Magazine, but then again I've never taken much interest in the opinions of the music press full stop. Most of them are either fresh from swallowing their university thesaurus or are cynical old hacks with damaged noses.

I prefer to trust my ears and the opinions of people whose judgement I value, and have to say that I disagree with some of my learned colleagues on this one. I like the new album, I appreciate their trying to be a little different on some tracks (different for them that is, bog-standard filler fodder it may be, and disappointing by their standards). I gave up worrying about the quality of the lyrics a long time ago, and somehow it sort of appeals to me that they have pinched riffs and ideas off other bands for once.

This may be a tad controversial at this early stage of the record's lifespan, but I would place it only behind PC&L in my favourite NO albums.

I think it's fair to say WFTSC is inconsistent, with some good but not great tunes.

Krafty is a definite grower, but I doubt the album will draw in new listeners.

I like it, but it has required me to perserver longer than I suspect a casual listener would, which can't be good.

I like it, but I don't love it like I love Technique.

If Krafty hits number one, I'll headbutt myself in the ahole.

Magazine reviews are pretty subjective anyway so I wouldn't bother too much about the 'Q' review of WFTSC.

I haven't heard the album in full yet, only bits and pieces from it, but what 'Q' magazine have got to say isn't going to inform my opinion in any way. I'ts like the comments on here, some have slated the album but others regard it highly (again completely subjective). There's nothing wrong with that but you've got to take it all for what it is, personal opinion.

Those who don't like it should, either, give it a chance and see if it grows on them (loads of people seem to be suggesting it's a grower) or give it up as a bad loss and move on.

I'd admittedly be a bit worried if everyone was slagging WFTSC off, but that's not happening thankfully. I suppose 'Q' ratings will probably have more of an impact upon casual listeners who allow these kind of reviews to influence their choices. I'm sure most NO fans are going to buy WFTSC when it comes out anyway.

I've certainly still got high hopes for it, regardless of what others think

Im dead curious like others on here to see how NME rate it as they gave the Genius award last month.I like the album but i doubt if most reviews will give it much more than 6 or 7 out of ten and some probably less than that.there are 2 or 3 songs i would rate as "goose pimplers" on the album - Whoes Joe ,WFTSC and Turn.Now if the rest of album was goose pimply i would expect every journo to give it a full rating.Krafty i love although theres something about the chorus that doesnt quite cut it.But the rest of the track is great.Songs like Road To Ruin i enjoy listening to but if you wanted to you could decsribe as bland dad rock.I will not be at all surprised of many journos (and probably some of my friends too!) decsribe the album as average.But i enjoy (most) of it.

Spotnick wrote:

You find Shellshock better than Krafty for instance?

Absolutely. Shellshock's a killer!!!

Spotnick wrote:

Ok, it might not be the best tune, but damn it, in my mind it's better than Shellshock, State of the Nation, Spooky, Ruined In A Day, World, Fine Time, World In Motion and 60 Miles An Hour...

No way, all of the above are better than Krafty... Just had to think about Spooky one second, but even that rules out Krafty.

Listen to the 12" Extended mix and you'll recognize just how boring it is. It's one of the lamest bass riffs Hooky played so far! And there are way better songs on WFTSC than Krafty. Who's Joe for example, and Dracula

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Could anyone point me to a thread or link to Qs latest cash for questions ? I remember the ones from '99, they were quite funny, but I haven't seen anything on the new ones yet. Otherwise, I've read several issues of Q over the past year, they didn't seem good enough to start buying it. I've only heard 4 songs thus far, but it can't be that bad of an album, especially compared to what's in the stores nowadays.

Just dig back here 2 or 3 weeks. It's there.

I believe one should not, can not review this album properly after one or two listenings. This album requires time to reveal its true greatness. Time is something most reviewers don't have.

Speaking as a fan of New Order since day one (I followed JD until the end), I find WFTSC to be on the whole a very good album indeed, and for me it just edges out Get Ready, which itself was a strong release. Most of the tracks are growers, so first listenings can be very deceptive. I wasn't keen on Krafty when I first heard it, but now I recognise its strengths. I think there's a tendency for New Order fans to want to be blown away on a first listen, but the qualities on WFTSC take time to emerge. Be a little patient, and those beautiful melodies and arrangements will become so apparent. Who's Joe? now gives me the same thrill as when I first got into Bizarre Love Triangle. WFTSC is full of wonderful moments of pure New Order. I can't wait to hear what they release in 18 months' time!

Don`t these magazine journos recieve copies months before their reviews get published?.Surely they have the album (and countless others, granted) to assess a long time before making their minds up on what review to give?.They have a lot of albums to review but they have enough time to have more than one listen.

Fans do lose sight that everyone has their OWN opinions and interpretations of songs. Hell I'm glad to hear the diversity in the reviews...I have only heard maybe 4 songs myself but I am certainly not going to be influenced by mag reviews or fans reviews for that matter. Just looking forward to the releases and make up my own mind. Like grandpa used to say, "If everyone liked the same thing we would all be married to grandma"!

Finally got round to reading this review today. I have no problem with the reviewer thinking the LP's a bit shit; what I do have a problem with is the tokenistic nature of the review, the lazy 'sounds-a-bit-like-Technique' comparison, and the total inability to give the reader any idea what the record sounds like. The article on JD is equally wank. My 13-year-old sister would be embarrassed to put her name by that kind of 'journalism'.

Oh, and of course music journalism is subjective: being 'objective' about pop music is as pointless as alcohol-free vodka.

On the other hand, the new Mojo contains some fantastic piccies of the band, and one of Natalie Curtis looking (perhaps unsurprisingly) like an exact hybrid of her mum & dad. The article is fantastic as well, containing my all-tme favorite anecdote about the band, featuring as it does kebabs, Annik Honore and an "i-ron-ing board".

Seb Briggs wrote: Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

Well Snake, it's like this. An old fart like me, who's been hangin' on the Order's every beat for over 25 years now, expects a little more. Admittedly, maybe i'm expecting a little too much for these ageing heroes to be able to maintain their true greatness, but it's true to say that I expect at least one or two songs on any new album they deliver to blow my socks off straight away - and certainly to have grown on me some after the 30 at least times i've heard them. The title track, WFTSC, is easily the best track on the album. Not a bad song, but in no way great! Every album up till now has been great - with the exception of Get Ready. Even Republic does it for me, a very under-rated album. Yes, I do think WFTSC is poor musically, but maybe that's down to my inability to digest 'pop music', there's no edge to any of it and Christ almighty, lyrically the album makes me cringe unbelievably. I'll still buy it, but only to get my hands on what is going to be a lovely hidden extra that most will never find!