Q Review

Spotnick wrote:

Muffy wrote:

I think you'll find Ally baby that the new album is indeed a prize duffer of gargantuan proportions. Krafty is - without a shadow of a doubt - easily the worst New Order single ever

Worst single ever?

You find Shellshock better than Krafty for instance?

Ok, it might not be the best tune, but damn it, in my mind it's better than Shellshock, State of the Nation, Spooky, Ruined In A Day, World, Fine Time, World In Motion and 60 Miles An Hour...

And I could find others in the 80's I'm quite sure of it.

Nic, you'd better get back on the tablets! Your brain has clearly turned to custard again! The Busted track Thunderbirds Are Go is better than Krafty! And that's a factoid!

Holy smoke, all the old skeletons are marching out.

What's this covert business you're referring to el Muffo?

:\pimp3:

I never read Q but applaud their sense... although two stars is ludicrously high for this bomb of a release...

This record is truly ghastly and the final nail in the coffin of this lots' creativity... there isnt one single track here that doesnt make me cringe... and not one single moment of beauty

Its really an Electronic record with a few guest stars... an overworked effort by aging popstars who cant really get it up to do good popsongs and dont have the balls to experiment... the tuneless voice is right out in front where the glare of day shows it for what it is... uninspired and tone deaf...

The slashing conventional rock guitars neuter any potential excitement and the amazingly unimaginitive use of electronics provides no respite whatsoever from the monotony...

For me its not a matter of if this improves on Get Ready... both records are utterly forgettable and of no nutritional value whatsoever... they are the work of a band who no longer has any of the things that made them special or important and now relies on a pathetic pastiche which clueless fans mistake for excitement...

I suppose my only response is to laugh and agree with my friend when he says "hey man, that band has always been Genesis; you just wouldnt admit it"

And then there were three...

Ajw

Al Jarvis wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: This record is truly ghastly and the final nail in the coffin of this lots' creativity... there isnt one single track here that doesnt make me cringe... and not one single moment of beauty

AJ, 24hrs ago you were still claiming 'lack of ownership' and asking for copies of 'this bomb' over at alt.music.new-order, so how come you've suddenly got an opinion?!

Or are you forming one before you've heard the music?!

Bless.

Wasn't it 24 hours prior to that, that he pledged never to post on here again?

AJ Wells wrote: ...they are the work of a band who no longer has any of the things that made them special or important and now relies on a pathetic pastiche which clueless fans mistake for excitement... Ajw

All well and good AJ, everyone is of course, entitled to their opinion. But if you're going to have an elitist sneer at NO fans who may have found something in this album, well, you're looking for a fight.

I wouldn't mind hearing which artists you do actually rate highly so we can appreciate what talanted musicians really are capable of. Who knows, maybe one day we too will have the analytical skills required to appropriate their work.

:\pimp3:

I'm a silent lurker who thinks the album is sub-par. Loads of filler and I'm gobsmacked by the lack of lyrical depth. Does every song have 'sea' in it?

The first half, musically, is definitely superior and as good as any of NO's and the offshoots' 90s output. But Jetstream is, for mine, the greatest atrocity they've ever committed to tape. An absolute stinker.

I too am an ex-Q devotee who, like Ally, is baffled by the endless pointless lists and dumbing down of a once great mag. 2 stars might be a bit harsh but not by much.

I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Muffy wrote: Even Republic does it for me, a very under-rated album. Yes, I do think WFTSC is poor musically, but maybe that's down to my inability to digest 'pop music', there's no edge to any of it and Christ almighty, lyrically the album makes me cringe unbelievably. I'll still buy it, but only to get my hands on what is going to be a lovely hidden extra that most will never find!

You don't like WFTSC and that's fine. But when you talk up Republic and then complain that Sirens has no 'edge', what's that all about? I went searching for this edge in Republic but couldn't penetrate the layers and layers of over-production, backing vocals and diluted bass. As Hague drifted them into PSB territory, surely there was never a less edgy-sounding NO album?

And what's this Easter egg you're referring to Muff? Or do you need to know some secret anti-Sirens' handshake to be in on it?

:\pimp3:

Lots of intersting opinions on this subject.

I am "Old Skool" as most post 90s Order fans say.

People love New Order for various reasons.

For post 90s people to question the "Old Skool" opinion is not fair and so is the juxtaposition.

I have stated that nothing will ever capture the magic of 85-89...But that doesnt mean I am right.

Al Jarvis wrote: "gobsmacked by the lack of lyrical depth" - can someone quote me a New Order lyric which HAD depth?! All Day Long got deep but was a bit cringeworthy. True Faith? (That's just Morning Night and Day, surely?). Confusion? We All Stand? Blue Monday, even?

The only 'lyrical depth' New Order have ever possessed was with Procession, imho, but it's hardly fcuking Dostoyevsky now, is it? The only bands I've ever enjoyed for purely lyrical reasons of late are the likes of GLC and the Streets, and that's cos they make me larf. I don't expect New Order to make me larf. I expect neutral lyrics about relationships (maybe), drugs (me), etc.

The cringeful lyric issue has had me thinking recently, in light of another selection of dazzlers on WFTSC.

They seemed to be getting worse in the GR-Sirens era but then I stopped and thought that maybe they weren't, and maybe they've always been like this. Throwaway, essentially. And the reason they seem worse is just that we're all a lot fcuking older, wiser and more critical. When I was singing along with Barney on Low-life or Brotherhood the lyrics were actually just as disposable but I was young and didn't know better or care. When you're older, you're more cynical, you've heard a million more songs and are more exposed to all manner of cliches and lazy rhymes.

Bernard is never going to be another Ian, or even a Thom Yorke or Wayne Coyne so I just hope he minimises the really hackneyed couplets and keeps the lyrics oblique and interpretational. When they're at their best, the music is so sweetly textured and dense that the nature of the words is almost insignificant.

:\pimp3:

PAUL TROWELL wrote: Lots of intersting opinions on this subject.

I am "Old Skool" as most post 90s Order fans say.

People love New Order for various reasons.

For post 90s people to question the "Old Skool" opinion is not fair and so is the juxtaposition.

I have stated that nothing will ever capture the magic of 85-89...But that doesnt mean I am right.

for the record, i became a fan in 87, after i heard True Faith. I had heard BLT and Blue Monday but wasn't a fan until True Faith. My favorite era though, is the 81-85 era.

The only utter crap thing they've released is the Ruined in a Day ltd. edition single where all 5 remixes sound the same.

So I'll throw in my opinions briefly and to the point since I'm going to be late for work.

Krafty - What the fuck is wrong with you people? Worst single ever? It's freaking brilliant! I really, really, sincerely love this song. I'm speechless.

60 mph - shit. lazy. corny.

crystal - shit. boring.

get ready - amazing. one of the best things they've done. And yes, I love Rock the Shack. And yeah I see the contradiction since it has two of their worst singles on it, but the album just works for me.

Technique, P, C & L - Their two best albums.

Low-Life, Brotherhood - Great, but really overrated by NO fans. I mean, cmon, we were all probably pretty young when we got into those albums. Dont get me wrong, they're great, but they have flaws too that I think fans overlook.

WFTSC - haven't heard, but some of the songs I've streamed sound great, some mediocre for NO.

Ok I really have to go.

And I agree with previous posts, Radiohead and U2 are the most overrated, pompous plagiarists ever and the fact that no music journalists have the balls or perception to point this out makes me want to smoke crack.

Ally3000 wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

Shug ain't "old school" - he's fucking younger than me!!! Me and the Shuglet are the babies of this board, and don't you forget it!!!

I guess the main difference between you and me is that my first "new" New Order album was Republic....

So when your first 3 albums as a fan are Republic, Get Ready and WFTSC, you are quite happy with this album.

Maybe it's different for people following them since the early 80's, I can agree with that...

Actually, I still have problem with some songs off PC&L and Low-Life to be honest... and don't get me started on Movement.

Amazing how New Order can please different types of people at different levels, isn't it?

You make a good point Nic. Listen to PCL without We All Stand and tag BM after 586, what a difference. With Low-Life ditch the edit of TPK and listen in this order: Elegia, Sooner, Subculture, Face Up, LV, This Time Of Night, Sunrise, and then TPK 12". Sublime!

Ally3000 wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

For a while Ally you've been teetering on the brink of personalising what has (up 'til now) been a good debate. Temper your negative/offensive language when you're refering to other posters wee man. So much anger and agression isn't good for your health and may come back to bite you on the arse one day.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Who exactly are you refering to as 'jaded old fucks', you mis-shapen fannyrash??!! Should we all be sucking each other off as we proclaim them Kings of the Universe for producing an average pop album?? WFTSC is, like it or not, way below the standards they have set for themselves. That of course is my own personal opinion. Those of us who are not proclaiming this album as the Second Coming do so because it is not to our taste. And by the way, a fan is a fan is a fan. Regardless of length of service.

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

Everybody has favourites Ally, even you. I don't recall dishing out any orders to anyone at any time compelling them to either love or hate the new album. Your sweet self, and Mr Mis-shape seem intent on becoming offensive just because some don't hold the same opinion as you do about a pop record. God knows what you'd be like if this was a political forum, though if memory serves, the trapeze artist is American, which explains a lot. And as a wise man has just said, be careful what you say and how you say it, making enemies is always pointless.

It's all so fecking subjective - New Order mean all things to all men.....Movement is my favourite album, tying with PCL - suppose that makes me old school, and hey I have followed them for the past 23 years..... But that doesn't make my 'opinion' any more worthy than someone who came in when they liked Republic. Music or Art aint like that. Lyrically, they were untouchable on Movement and the singles EPs that followed up to about '84, and patchily thereafter. OK, they were aping Ian's lyrics on Movement etc, but they sounded great and a tad intellectual and open to interpretation- certain detached coolness .... . Having said all that, I think i will like WFTSC - haven't heard the whole album, only 4 songs but I think the 4 I have heard beat most of Get ready, all of Republic, and, dare I say it, several on Technique.

Each and every new Order album has moved on from the last.....some people interpret that 'moving on' as a drop in 'quality' - however you measure that. I remember placing Low Life on it's day of release on the turntable and thinking, this ain't PCL, or Movement, it was soooo different then....but its a classic NOW....its all perspective and context.

Enough bullshit for now.

FIVE HATES SIX-you are gonna LOVE  IT.Best thing i have heard since being RELEASED myself.I am INNOCENT  m' LUD.

NOT ARF!

Rocket Mick

Muffy wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Who exactly are you refering to as 'jaded old fucks', you mis-shapen fannyrash??!! Should we all be sucking each other off as we proclaim them Kings of the Universe for producing an average pop album?? WFTSC is, like it or not, way below the standards they have set for themselves. That of course is my own personal opinion. Those of us who are not proclaiming this album as the Second Coming do so because it is not to our taste. And by the way, a fan is a fan is a fan. Regardless of length of service.

who the cap fit...let them wear it!

actually, Muffy, you made some good points. i just can't see how someone can not like this album. I also can't see why a person who thinks every New Order song after Movement is shit, continues to post 8000 times to a New Order message board more that 20 years after the band released somthing they liked! This does not refer to you Muffy.

OFF TOPIC

Biznotic, what's your obsession with Digital Mike?

Who cares? I remember they gave technique 3 stars when that came out. Idiots.

also, Muffy, Mis-Shapen Fanny Rash is now my favorite put-down ever!

JOHN BARRETT wrote: Who cares? I remember they gave technique 3 stars when that came out. Idiots.

Pretty accurate score in my book.