B.Sumner, please reade this.... — Forum Archive

9 Mar 2005, 01:01

Matt Person wrote: God you must not have been a fan of Joy Division

Hi all I'm new here but I know so much about JD and NO it's not even funny. I personal opinion is that these 4 guys (JD original lineup) never wanted to be real rockstars. Ian Curtis wanted fame, not to be a musician. That's why he plays one chord on LWTUA. Now ponder this > Did Ian Curtis intend to get as many fans as he did? No. His dance (which he didn't want to be very popular) brought in tons of fans, increasing the popularity of JD and him, putting on stress and whatnot causing him to have an affair with a german girl and hang himself (I assume you all know the story)

Actually it is funny, the inaccuracy you have picked up already at such a tender age!

He played one chord on LWTUA because that was the guitar part that Bernard wrote for the song. He played one chord on quite a few songs, they were the parts Bernard wrote for him.

His dance was a dance he was doing long before he was in a band, it was his way of dancing. Believe me it didn't make the band more popular, there was very little talk in 1979/80 of the dance itself to be fair, more of his unsettling stage presence. There weren't tons of fans either, the biggest single gig attendance was 1200, many gigs even in 1980 were attended by no more than 100, and the record sales from 1978-80 would indicate they weren't as popular then as they have become now.

Epilepsy was one of the prime stress causers I would have thought, not his style of dancing (which incidentally both mimicked his epilepsy and allowed him to disguise any small fits he may have had while performing live).

The "german girl" was in fact Belgian.

9 Mar 2005, 15:06

Bernard wrote that mainly because that's really all he could play. An how is it now that Bernard plays guitar for a lot more of the song then in the JD version? I don't want to start a whole debate, Annik's heritage is my mistake, sounded German :P He was very self conscious about his condition and the dance, I can tell you that for a fact.

9 Mar 2005, 15:56

Oh, I could just kill myself if I didn't know how to dance well.

9 Mar 2005, 15:56

Oh, I could just kill myself if I didn't know how to dance well.

9 Mar 2005, 16:19

Crumbs!

9 Mar 2005, 17:55

Rob's just a dick.

9 Mar 2005, 18:18

I'm sure the autocue reads, dance here, & whistle now. :D

9 Mar 2005, 18:19

Matt Person wrote: God you must not have been a fan of Joy Division

Hi all I'm new here but I know so much about JD and NO it's not even funny. I personal opinion is that these 4 guys (JD original lineup) never wanted to be real rockstars. Ian Curtis wanted fame, not to be a musician. That's why he plays one chord on LWTUA. Now ponder this > Did Ian Curtis intend to get as many fans as he did? No. His dance (which he didn't want to be very popular) brought in tons of fans, increasing the popularity of JD and him, putting on stress and whatnot causing him to have an affair with a german girl and hang himself (I assume you all know the story)

This put Barney in a tough spot. He was chosen to sing becuase, well, he played the least really. Most of JD and early early early NO was Hooky and Stephen with Bernard coming in at the height points to add the feeling of urgency in their songs. He didn't want it in the first place but he was given the job of frontman.

So here we are. If he doesn't feel secure in the position he's in, let him take whatever precautions HE FEELS is nessecary for the show to run smoothly. Now, what kept Joy Division concerts so cool was the fact that at any second the whole place could go into havic (sometimes it did) but NO is more polished then JD.

Yeah, will, if you sticked with me have a cookie. I'm 13 so I've never seen a JD or NO concert, but own a tape of a JD conert from 1980 and have seen clip upon clip of NO Film. G'day

Matt

You're only 13? :eek: Nice to see (and a little worrying :laugh: ) you're into the band so young but to me your opinions seem a little flawed and forthright. I'm sure you've read up on JD but never assume anything about your own knowledge on this board; there are fans that are fountains of information on here. I've been a fan for a decade, read a serious amount and I still learn bits and bobs from reading posts here and hearing gig stories. Declaring that you "know so much" cuts zero ice I'm afraid. Btw, you're not a "goth" teenager obsessed with Ian's suicide and have blood drenched photos of him on your wall are you? I hate them :nonono: :laugh:

Firstly, I do think Ian wanted to be a musician. There is enough evidence to suggest he was utterly fascinated by music (particularly Punk when it arrived) and had extensive likings of Iggy Pop, the Velvets, MC5 etc. as well as insisting the rest of the band listen to Kraftwerk, this surely led on to the groundbreaking Blue Monday. He liked buying his records and clearly wanted to be someone who made and played songs. Fact. It just so happened that his unique style of poetry went hand in hand with writing lyrics to a punk/rock song. Ian was an unassuming guy (with a documented provocative side) by most accounts, he was definitely not into lusting after fame as say..Bono or Robbie Williams. Those two (OK the latter has credibility) court the tabloids, mouth off, do alot of self-promotion etc.... I don't think Ian was capable of that. He wanted to be recognised sure, but that was about it. Also, as oldMonkey pointed out, the "german girl" was actually from Belgium. As for Ian's guitar playing, he was not a natural guitarist. He simply filled a void and played a chord or two while Barney was busy with the synthesisers, end of. Nobody cares about Ian's guitar playing because his lyrics were his main contribution and they are still some of the best and most original lyrics ever written 25 years on. Does anyone really care if he was a beginner at guitar? Not me anyway.

However I do agree with the "stop the bitching" aspect towards Barney's somewhat controversial autocue. It doesn't bother me and as you say if it's something he wants and feels comfortable with in a gig environment then that's good enough for me. It's a shame some fans get so pissed off by it. Granted when I first saw it I thought it was a little weird, but it didn't ruin my night(s) when I saw them in 2001 nor the 5 11 live DVD (It was ruined anyway :laugh: ). About the only argument I favour towards removing it is the return of Barney's swear-ridden ad libbing. Sometimes genius, sometimes absurd and most definitely interesting when the crowd had pissed him off in some way. (Not sung but his spoken rebuttal to a static German crowd during Get Ready's tour "you only like fucking marching music" was really funny)

As for being a JD fan, I was memorising the lyrics to everything off Permenant 1995 before I knew of their link to the best (and the same) band in the world: New Order

Ally.

9 Mar 2005, 18:45

Ronald Kirsch wrote: I'm sure the autocue reads, dance here, & whistle now. :D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

9 Mar 2005, 22:35

Matt Person wrote: God you must not have been a fan of Joy Division

Hi all I'm new here but I know so much about JD and NO it's not even funny. I personal opinion is that these 4 guys (JD original lineup) never wanted to be real rockstars. Ian Curtis wanted fame, not to be a musician. That's why he plays one chord on LWTUA. Now ponder this > Did Ian Curtis intend to get as many fans as he did? No. His dance (which he didn't want to be very popular) brought in tons of fans, increasing the popularity of JD and him, putting on stress and whatnot causing him to have an affair with a german girl and hang himself (I assume you all know the story)

This put Barney in a tough spot. He was chosen to sing becuase, well, he played the least really. Most of JD and early early early NO was Hooky and Stephen with Bernard coming in at the height points to add the feeling of urgency in their songs. He didn't want it in the first place but he was given the job of frontman.

So here we are. If he doesn't feel secure in the position he's in, let him take whatever precautions HE FEELS is nessecary for the show to run smoothly. Now, what kept Joy Division concerts so cool was the fact that at any second the whole place could go into havic (sometimes it did) but NO is more polished then JD.

Yeah, will, if you sticked with me have a cookie. I'm 13 so I've never seen a JD or NO concert, but own a tape of a JD conert from 1980 and have seen clip upon clip of NO Film. G'day

Matt

Since you are 13, I think we can all forgive you being so naive.

Welcome to NOOL.

9 Mar 2005, 23:10

586 you avatar gives the impression that Ian Curtis was LEFT handed, he was not - please sort it out

10 Mar 2005, 03:43

Just a little disconcerted that a supposed link between ecstacy and acute memory loss means Bernard uses an autocue so he must have consumed vast quantities of said drug. No evidence of either is there? What is this - The Sun newspaper?? :rolleyes:

10 Mar 2005, 04:03

Mulv wrote: Just a little disconcerted that a supposed link between ecstacy and acute memory loss means Bernard uses an autocue so he must have consumed vast quantities of said drug. No evidence of either is there? What is this - The Sun newspaper??

Indeed, and why is everyone under the impression Barney was so much more of a caner than the likes of Hooky and Steve?! It was probably the Pernod - that stuff is lethal! :laugh:

10 Mar 2005, 04:05

Mulv wrote: Just a little disconcerted that a supposed link between ecstacy and acute memory loss means Bernard uses an autocue so he must have consumed vast quantities of said drug. No evidence of either is there? What is this - The Sun newspaper??

a) Bernard himself gave the reason for the autocue as having burned his brain out on too much ecstacy, so I understand

b) Bernard himself has admitted to rather overdoing his use of ecstacy in at least one interview

c) The Sun has tits on page 3, this site has tits all over the place!

10 Mar 2005, 04:19

New York 1982? Ibiza 1988? OK we can presume.

But lame excuse for old age I reckon :evil4:

10 Mar 2005, 18:32

Ole Blue "Monday" Eyes wrote: 586 you avatar gives the impression that Ian Curtis was LEFT handed, he was not - please sort it out

I know he wasn't. But it always causes people to ask about it, so that's why I've kept it up there, just for the fun of it. But I'll go ahead and change it.

10 Mar 2005, 18:41

Ecstasy... Ecstano...

10 Mar 2005, 19:02

oldmonkey wrote: FFS - you people!

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a classical concert on the telly, or maybe even been to one. The naughty musicians there even have the music written down in front of them, and turn the pages as they are going along!

Brilliant point. What is the issue? Politicians have teleprompters, classical musicians have sheet music...no big deal!

It makes for a more spontaneous show, either way, when the lyrics change from performance to performance. It's not canned!

12 Mar 2005, 20:51

Just because your name is Rob doesn't mean you're suddenly the band's manager, so quit bitching about every little thing.

12 Mar 2005, 23:50

derp to you all :crazy:

4 Apr 2005, 21:23

Cant type much as I broke my wrist. No I'm not a goth, although I'm upset with my life I'm happy now. I went through a depression though and Ian (and Adrian Borland of The Sound) is what turned me away from suicicde :)