bring back the old order!

What, you mean like in "Confusion?" Or "Fine time?" or "The perfect kiss?"

If you can't hear the increase in live drums over the last few albums, then you're not listening very hard.

Maybe they should just break up? Would we all be happy then? No. So who cares, its good music. And music thats basically better than anything else coming out these days. So we should leave them alone, we don't need to know everything about everything, & how & why they do things.

P.S. the new album is killer fun to play jam with!

Hey Paul Paul Paul Paul, look, I've got news for you: I actually think that Waiting For The Sirens Call is even better than Low Life! The shock! The horror! Much better, in fact... maybe you just need to listen to it some more times without prejudice. The best example is I Told You So. I just liked this track, but after repeated listenings through headphones it's grown a lot, I totally underrated it, it's almost a masterpiece... the rhythm, that sort of electro-banjo, the keyboard, the guitar... it's one of the most exciting songs they've ever made, as inventive and different to their other songs as Fine Time. And to be so exciting at 50 is a huge achievement, isn't it? Plus, there's plenty of other good songs, Low Life was great, but WFTSC has better productions, and overall better songs, if you take away the heavyweight Perfect Kiss from the competition, which was included as a frustrating edit on the album, anyway... Love Vigilantes? Alright, what about the title track of the new album...

Paulie, I have been a New Order fan for longer than you have been alive, so please when you disagree with an opinion, I think you should at least look at it before you dismiss it.

BTW it nearly always was Barney who wrote the lyrics, and the melodies.

Please consider that on this album,Steve's drumming is mellower, because the songs are mellower.

look paul paul (if that really is your name),we all know that you are really steve moriss,posting up on ere to get support to get your ideas recorded. mind u after the other 2s efforts im not suprised barns n hook have relegated u to making the tea.oooof get out of that baldwin.

jesus christ. a lot of you newbies are a bunch of fucking crybabies. if i didn't know better, i'd mistake you for a bunch of 40+ year old brits. if you have a problem with how new order do things, find some other band to gripe about. may i suggest the oh-so-trendy indie rock scene? all those fans ever do is bitch and complain about missed notes and being a bunch of pretentious artsy cunts. piss off.

Fuck I'm never going to see them again until they bring back Ian.

no, i'm serious. a lot of you people need to wash the sand out of your respective vaginas before you grow a pearl.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: no, i'm serious. a lot of you people need to wash the sand out of your respective vaginas before you grow a pearl.

Never a truer word has been spoken. We should ask Spottty to put this up right under the conduct rules.
But now I must go and strangle a newbie.

I'm sure the triumvirate of 49-year-olds will be more than glad to take all of your constructive suggestions about how to run their band as soon as you eat the peanuts out of their shit.

for a while after Get Ready came out, i was bummed about the shift in sound. it felt like i had lost my best friend. after living with the NEW order, i realized i hadn't lost a friend at all, that friend changed, like i've changed and it was unfair for me to expect them to remain the same. i have a great appreciation for the new songs and almost all the songs since 2001. There are only a few songs from the last 4 years i don't like to listen to...the same cannot be said for the "holier than thou" era's: 81-85 and 86-89. Both of those era's contain many more songs that i find appalling then the current era of tunes. you either adjust your perception of who you think New Order should be or be pissed off that they don't sound like they did on LowLife or PCL. Steve had a great line in an interview when he said he had to stop the jam session because they were treading ground they've already walked; "Wait, we've done this one before...it's on Low-Life".

newOrder is dead, long live NEW Order!

its like ...2005!, New Order can't go back into a time machine... either enjoy the new album or ignore it... of course its not the same, they never will be able to go back to the way it was... as far as dinosaur bands 20 years past their prime creativity, WFTSC isnt bad at all IMO, have a little fun

Hey Paul Paul, you've even, as they say, Pissed off the Pope.

By no means am I veteran here, but I know when to keep my pie hole closed and respect the people that have put in a ton of hours to provide me and other "fucking yanks" with a great place to get news and opinion about our favorite band. Old Monkey, Steve0, Ally, Pope, Rocket, Nick, and even the guy - I believe from the UK - who emailed me the Krafty single. Great group of fans.

And I agree with so many others: Stops living in the past. Grow up and move on. So the sound has changed/evolved and they have a new member for the first time in 25 years. This isn't Little fucking River Band or the goddamn Doobie Brothers who have ads for new members every 6 months so they can tour the fucking fairs all summer.

Learn to like it or go crank some REO. It's really that simple.

Sheesh! Granted, paul paul is a little obstinate (and more than a little smug, I'd say), but it's only his opinion. The attempts to make his opinion "fact based" (the percentages and whatnot) are ludicrous, sure, but I don't think it's fair to be quite so harsh on the guy and bring it down to the level of personal insult.

paul paul wrote: lets hope they bring out a new lp pretty sharpish and that stephens contribution will be greater than it is on the WFTSC.

someone needs to tell barney that new order is not 80% him and 20% hooky.

it is 25% barney, 25% hooky, 25% stephen and 25% gillian.

also, we dont need phils laddish guitar rock wank polluting new order, if he wants to hang around, fine he can go and make the tea while the real band write and play on the records.

rant over.

i prefer electronic music to rock music and nothing irritates me more than obnoxious, guitar wielding ego maniacs who play terrible music (This means you John Squire post 90). you're absolutely off the mark with your comments about Phil-lian. his contribution to the album is understated and classy. if you think this album is primarily from the hands of Bernard, you obviously haven't been reading the press recently. bernard has stated that he'd go off to write the lyrics and when he'd come back with lyrics to 1 song written, they'd have music for 3 more ready for him. your percent breakdown shows a real lack of knowledge on how bands make music together. we all need to rant once and a while, but try and rant on something you can back up. from my count, phil has exactly 1 solo on this album. could be more, but only 1 i can pick out as obviously different to Bernard's playing style. the question is: Who's ripping off Marr? Phil-lian or Bernard?

The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

Ally3000 wrote:

Jim Ferguson wrote: Sheesh! Granted, paul paul is a little obstinate (and more than a little smug, I'd say), but it's only his opinion. The attempts to make his opinion "fact based" (the percentages and whatnot) are ludicrous, sure, but I don't think it's fair to be quite so harsh on the guy and bring it down to the level of personal insult.

Jim, nice of you to chuck in a lifeline for him. But I speak as I find (and very much so) in this case. His posts are riddled with arrogance and he writes as if he's New Order's judge and jury. The arrogance involved here is incredible and readily warrants labelling of a "muppet/idiot". Actually I'm adding "twat" to that as I review this thread he started in the first place. I wonder if when Barney makes a cup of tea, Hooky and Steve are actually 25% each responsible for it? Laughable, how dare he dictate the dynamic of how NO songs should be written. Even to seasoned fans how New Order write their songs is still a bit of a mystery... allocating 25% to each member is such an incredibly simpleton way of looking at it and having a misguided rant about it without the pertinent facts openly deserves ridicule.

Ally.

I fully endorse these views but would also point out this thread has been top draw entertainment.

There are 5 members of New Order, Barney, Hookey, Phill, Steve and Auto Cue.

I love the NEW New Order, predictable sets, and encores and perfect lyrics.

Just wish they could play Blue Monday twice in the set, as they did in Tiffany's in 83.

I Love Blue Monday wrote: There are 5 members of New Order, Barney, Hookey, Phill, Steve and Auto Cue.

I love the NEW New Order, predictable sets, and encores and perfect lyrics.

Just wish they could play Blue Monday twice in the set, as they did in Tiffany's in 83.

You're not even trying anymore are you, Mike? The least you could've done is mentioned that you have a bootleg of that '83 show.

depthcharge wrote: The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

Class response, Charge-o-meter - summed it up beautifully CTB

Pope yes I do tee hee

depthcharge wrote: The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

paul paul wrote:

depthcharge wrote: The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

Yeah, great pre-programmed computer drumming. Maybe you're just not "in the know," but there are no live drums on The Perfect Kiss.

Ally3000 wrote:

Jim Ferguson wrote: Sheesh! Granted, paul paul is a little obstinate (and more than a little smug, I'd say), but it's only his opinion. The attempts to make his opinion "fact based" (the percentages and whatnot) are ludicrous, sure, but I don't think it's fair to be quite so harsh on the guy and bring it down to the level of personal insult.

Jim, nice of you to chuck in a lifeline for him. But I speak as I find (and very much so) in this case. His posts are riddled with arrogance and he writes as if he's New Order's judge and jury. The arrogance involved here is incredible and readily warrants labelling of a "muppet/idiot". Actually I'm adding "twat" to that as I review this thread he started in the first place. I wonder if when Barney makes a cup of tea, Hooky and Steve are actually 25% each responsible for it? Laughable, how dare he dictate the dynamic of how NO songs should be written. Even to seasoned fans how New Order write their songs is still a bit of a mystery... allocating 25% to each member is such an incredibly simpleton way of looking at it and having a misguided rant about it without the pertinent facts openly deserves ridicule.

Ally.

ally i respect your passion and commitment to the band, you have obviously posted here for years and hold the band very close to your heart.

but i am also a fan, have been for 15 years and i cannot honestly say that the band that once defined an era are currently writing tunes on the level of true faith, perfect kiss, temptation and BLT.

take the three tunes i mentioned there for example. the drumming on all of those is a highlight, and its exactly the sort of thing thats missing from the later work.

its also my opinion that the removal of gillian and the downgrading of steve's role is exactly what barney is comfortable with at this stage of the NO's career. He obviously has problems working within a group in which everyone has an equal say otherwise he would not have shown the commitment that he did to electronic in the 90s.

im sorry you don't agree with my views ally, but thats all they are, views on the bands current output. what exaclty is wrong with judging a group of creative artists? predictably i suppose, you see the removal of half the band as being a cause for no concern. but your tirades come accross as personalised and childish. how old are you by the way?

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

paul paul wrote:

depthcharge wrote: The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

Yeah, great pre-programmed computer drumming. Maybe you're just not "in the know," but there are no live drums on The Perfect Kiss.

stop being so pedantic. the pre-programmed drums by steve (happy now??) are a vital ingredient to a great song.

Let us remember that any New Order is better than no New Order !!

It is only a few years ago that they had 'split up' and that was it. Fortunately they did not - and the greatest band in the world are playing and recording in 2005 - now that is pretty cool. I could never have imagined that 20 years ago.

As many people have already said - people / groups change and evolve. It would be pretty boring if they re-hashed Low Life or Technique every few years.

Whatever anyone thinks WFTSC / Krafty are great, alive, vibrant , pure New Order ( that is an 'ideal for living' remember - what is was always about ). I have always said that you can tell a New Order record immediately from the first few beats - I can do that with this new record - which means to me that the magic is still alive !!!!!