bring back the old order!

Steve doesn't really play live drums. On the last tour he was playing roland v-drums (except for a triggered yamaha kick). Obviously this simulates acoustic, but lets be honest, as far as I know he has always tried to be a human drum machine (he's no Keith Moon). To suggest that his lack of playing "live" drums is a significant change from 80's era new order is ridiculous. Almost every single they've had features programmed drums, and I don't think he's actually played an acoustic (i.e. non-electronic) kit since about 1985. As far as I can tell, roughly half of Low Life is programmed.

As far as WFTSC, it sounds to my ears like he's playing his v-drums on about 50% of the tunes. And he personally took credit for coming up with the riff for "Working Overtime".

If you pay attention to Steve's style, the greatest change occurred between JD/Movement and PCL. He virtually stopped playing toms. What's cool on WTSC is that he actually remembered he has a ride cymbal to use, which I don't believe I've heard since Unknown Pleasures.

In other words, this whole debate seems pretty silly. Musicians change, and each New Order album is wonderfully unique, reflecting the time and era in which it was written.

Meister Baister wrote: Steve doesn't really play live drums. On the last tour he was playing roland v-drums (except for a triggered yamaha kick). Obviously this simulates acoustic, but lets be honest, as far as I know he has always tried to be a human drum machine (he's no Keith Moon). To suggest that his lack of playing "live" drums is a significant change from 80's era new order is ridiculous. Almost every single they've had features programmed drums, and I don't think he's actually played an acoustic (i.e. non-electronic) kit since about 1985. As far as I can tell, roughly half of Low Life is programmed.

As far as WFTSC, it sounds to my ears like he's playing his v-drums on about 50% of the tunes. And he personally took credit for coming up with the riff for "Working Overtime".

If you pay attention to Steve's style, the greatest change occurred between JD/Movement and PCL. He virtually stopped playing toms. What's cool on WTSC is that he actually remembered he has a ride cymbal to use, which I don't believe I've heard since Unknown Pleasures.

In other words, this whole debate seems pretty silly. Musicians change, and each New Order album is wonderfully unique, reflecting the time and era in which it was written.

im sorry perhaps you misunderstand me. i am not quibbling over the difference between live drumming and programmed drum machines, i am saying that while before steve could be relied on to provide unique and distinctive drum patterns which were integral to making new order what they were, the new album's drum sounds are no more interesting that what you would find on any electronic album.

That's a valid point. And to some extent I agree. He certainly doesn't seem to have as much presence. But I think that relates more to the mix than a real change in his playing style. In my opinion, if you listen to the guitar oriented tracks New Order has written in the last 20 years, his style has change very little since Low Life (the tempo has slowed a bit - but that's what happens when you start approaching 50). What is different is that he is way back in the mix. Listen to Love Vigilantes - there are four big cracks on the snare and the rest of the song follows what is a very simple rhythm - but he's loud and is the foundation for everything (the same goes for the rest of Low Life). On the guitar orientated tracks on WFTSC he's playing similar rhythms, but there's alot more sound obscuring his drumming.

It would be a fair criticism to say that "new" new order tracks are over-produced. But in my opinion, almost every album today (regardless of genre) makes that mistake.

Oh how I love a good old barney!! Haven't laughed so much for yonks! Bottom line though guys, you either like the new album or you don't! Why in hells name does it have to be analysed down to who contributed what and whether Stevo's drums are programmed or not?? Strip to the waist now and fight like bitches!

Muffy wrote: Oh how I love a good old barney!! Haven't laughed so much for yonks! Bottom line though guys, you either like the new album or you don't! Why in hells name does it have to be analysed down to who contributed what and whether Stevo's drums are programmed or not?? Strip to the waist now and fight like bitches!

i think the point about the drums is a pertinent one. i question steves involvement with this record precisely because the drumming is so bland and generic, just like an electronic record in fact.

like it or not distinctive and inventive drumming was as big a part of new order as hooky's bass or barneys vocals up to and including technique. i will say that songs like true faith and the perfect kiss draw at least 25% of their power from the drumming.

now the drums on this record could have been played by anyone, you dont even notice them half the time.

what is so frustrating to me is that barney made such a big deal about wanting to go off and do solo records, and yet now he claims to have returned and all we get electronic mk2 with hooks bass running through it! personally i think the rift never really healed post-republic, and that steve has just accepted a session man role in order to keep barney happy and the whole thing going.

paul paul wrote: well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

Hmmm. The only actual drumming performed on the song is Hooky. The rest is programmed, probably by Steve. One of NO's finest beats for sure. So what's your point?

As I said before, you'd do worse than to check your research before you log onto these forums and start stirring shit up. Facile comments like "I'm not the only one who doesn't rate WFTSC as highly as LL or Technique" won't do you any favours. Tell us something new. If you showed some respect and looked back over recent threads you'd see that almost no one here believes this is their best album yet. You'd also see that there was plenty of disappointment over Gill's exit and Phil's formalisation into the band.

There are many fans here who've been into the band as long as you and plenty for even longer. Most are accepting that the band are not what they once were - it's a given - no one's challenging you on this. It's just that some of us have decided to move on and show interest in the newest evolution of the band. If you're not interested, log-off, pop Low-Life on repeat and go stew in your gross disappointment.

:\pimp3:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

paul paul wrote:

depthcharge wrote: The other point being if you're going to log onto a New Order website, slate the band and offend their fans, you'd want to make sure your arguments were water-tight.

Well Paul's are far from that.

All the great New Order songs are hallmarked by Steve's live drumming? Untrue. Try The Perfect Kiss, Blue Monday and Bizarre Love Triangle for a start. Don't come much bigger than those.

Republic was all Steve and Gillian? Wrong again. It's well-documented that it was Barney slaving over the Apple well after the others had split, trying to meld something out of the fractured recording sessions.

I'd also debate what you perceive were the levels of output from the members over the years. Have my doubts for instance, that Gill was responsible for 25% of the material on any given album.

Many of us wish that the original line-up was still in place but it's no longer realistic. So we have the choice of exploring what the new line-up is doing or jumping ship. If it's not for you, so be it, move on. We sure as hell won't miss any more miserable cases here bemoaning change and offending others.

Absolute rubbish since Technique eh? Not you is it Tony?

well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

Yeah, great pre-programmed computer drumming. Maybe you're just not "in the know," but there are no live drums on The Perfect Kiss.

Hooky certainly plays live drums on it.

depthcharge wrote:

paul paul wrote: well if you can't hear great drumming on the perfect kiss then your ears need testing.....

Hmmm. The only actual drumming performed on the song is Hooky. The rest is programmed, probably by Steve. One of NO's finest beats for sure. So what's your point? :\pimp3:

i have said elsewhere that my issue is not whether the drumming is live or programmed, it is simply not a factor in the current new order output. before the drumming was key, in most cases as vital as hooky's bass and barneys vocals. in some cases it was the most important thing. remove that from the equation and you are doing as much to the band as removing hooky's bass or barney's vocals. of course they lost the vocalist once before, and they changed their name....

Is this the most anal NOOL thread ever.....???

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Is this the most anal NOOL thread ever.....???

Probably, but at least it's amusing, eh?

Nothing wrong with a bit of anal every now and then. Sure Muffy will vouch for that.

:\pimp3:

you people are the reason why i need help..... DERP

Seems like paul paul signed this forum for one thread only.

But, who can ask for a band to play exactly the same music for 25 Years? They have grown older. Have differnt taste them selfs now.

We had the same discussion at The Chameleons forum when they got together and made new music a couple of years ago.

Rian wrote: Seems like paul paul signed this forum for one thread only.

But, who can ask for a band to play exactly the same music for 25 Years? They have grown older. Have differnt taste them selfs now.

We had the same discussion at The Chameleons forum when they got together and made new music a couple of years ago.

Try listening to Status Quo, they did it for far longer. Soon to appear on Corrie I say, Soon to apppear on Corrie.

James Thomas wrote:

Rian wrote: Seems like paul paul signed this forum for one thread only.

But, who can ask for a band to play exactly the same music for 25 Years? They have grown older. Have differnt taste them selfs now.

We had the same discussion at The Chameleons forum when they got together and made new music a couple of years ago.

Try listening to Status Quo, they did it for far longer. Soon to appear on Corrie I say, Soon to apppear on Corrie.

But, is that good or bad?

Nice one JOHNNY.Could be!

I'm not convinced. The arguments are a bit short, and there's been no mention of the world against (not that I have bothered reading most of the shite). I recognise the e-mail address though, so maybe.....

Is a band ever a true quartet, creativity-wise? Do you really think B, P, S, and G split up an album in 25% chunks? I seriously doubt it. At the same time, I won't argue that the post-Technique albums are anything to go crazy over.

The best years of NO are probably behind them, but I always thought that 50% of NO is better than 95% of the crap out there. From the new album, WFTSC, Krafty, and Turn are really fine tunes. And the more I listen to Get Ready, the more I really like it very much. I think GR is far superior to Republic.

I guess what I like least about the newer albums are the lyrics. I miss the nonsensical words..."Up down turnaround please don't let me hit the ground"...and songs like Love Vigilantes, but hey, I'll always have Love Vigilantes on Low-Life. And that's good enough for me.

hummm... I think Paul Paul is just trying to reach 50 posts in one thread... an ideia for his next post: "and shouldnt some fcuking third world guy be listening to an latin american band???"

yy

Paul Paul's real name is Andrew. He has double identity here on NOOL.

mike powell wrote:

mind u after the other 2s efforts im not suprised barns n hook have relegated u to making the tea.oooof get out of that baldwin.

*Hey, Superhighways is an excellent album, as good as Twisted Tenderness or Monaco... Wow, post #500 already, glad to be back...