Thoughts on Siren after living with it for a few days...

Ok I have run through this thing a couple of times and if you lower your expectations incredibly, Siren, Krafty and the verses in a couple of the dance tracks (particularly the latter one with the cheesy female voices) are not bad... actually the intros to several songs have potential, but the interest is abandoned in favor of predictable chord changes and structures... I do like the heartbeat one that starts out aping "Now that we've found love what are we gonna do with it" but that chorus is just hideous...

The real test of a NO record is if the hairs on the back of the neck stand up at all... mine stood during the first listen of much of Republic and I had no response at all to Get Ready... this one is much the same, although the lovely verse of Siren did get a minor response... but thats it for this one... and a NO record without standing hairs is like erotica that doesnt get you hard... you can rationalize it as whatever else you want, but it doesnt provide the intended response...

Ajw

I list Whoes Joe ,Waiting For The Sirenss Call and Turn as true hairstanders.Or goose pimplers .The rest of the album after a few weeks is still fun and a joy to listen to.Listening to stuff like Ruined In A Day and World off Republic the other night i came to realise how pissed off and uninterested the band sounded on some of that album.Waiting For The Sirens Call is way more inspired and naturally invigorating.

To use your own metaphor, you're talking about pornography, not erotica. The new album is very good (aurally erotic enough for me), even if it's no money shot like Low-Life. If Get Ready didn't give you any shivers but Republic did, I'd say you should visit a good ear doctor...or maybe just a Viagra prescription.

Dr Kirsch reccomends keep listening, and it will happen.

it occurred to me this morning about what i don't like about new order since 1993. i was listening to the postal service, and realized how their sound is just refreshingly indie and not some overproduced monstrosity. i realized that new order was becoming that way when i first heard republic in 93. i loved regret when it came out, but listening to world (price of love), spooky, young offender, etc. made me think that there was something wrong with their synths. gone were the quirky and unpredictable sounds that you could find in techno music at that time.

i admired "get ready" because of its rock-y-ness. but now that they've come back to synths again (except for Here to Stay), i just can't get into this current sound.

hope it doesn't sound this way live.

I've used nearly all my love, I didn't have to try

Mr. Wells...

I have to agree with you somewhat here.

The new lp HAS grown on me a bit, but not like their classics.

I still recall going insane listening to Every Little Counts for the first time on vinyl. Hearing Chemical the first time. Hearing Sunrise for the first time. Hearing Thieves Like Us for the first time. You remember where you were....

Personally, I think it is Sumner's voice that has waned on me. It all sounds like the 2nd Electronic lp now. His voice got too good, too standard. I liked the New Order that was always on the verge of falling apart. Like Joy Division, there was that sense that at any moment something would break.

But, with the past 2 New Order lps, I have found Sumner's vocals to be too professional, too polished, with a certain inflection I cannot describe but is not classic New Order.

I just don't dig it as much. The reason I enjoyed Behind Closed Doors was because his vocals were back to the more experimental, honest, non-professional feel.

Siren is a great LP, but it is not a classic LP. I play it, I enjoy it, but like Wells says, it doesn't INSPIRE.

And those first New Order LPS inspired, inspired many of us to get into music ourselves. Will this lp get some 17 year old out of bed and into a punk band?

doubt it....

Tarbox23 wrote: Mr. Wells...

I have to agree with you somewhat here.

The new lp HAS grown on me a bit, but not like their classics.

I still recall going insane listening to Every Little Counts for the first time on vinyl. Hearing Chemical the first time. Hearing Sunrise for the first time. Hearing Thieves Like Us for the first time. You remember where you were....

Personally, I think it is Sumner's voice that has waned on me. It all sounds like the 2nd Electronic lp now. His voice got too good, too standard. I liked the New Order that was always on the verge of falling apart. Like Joy Division, there was that sense that at any moment something would break.

But, with the past 2 New Order lps, I have found Sumner's vocals to be too professional, too polished, with a certain inflection I cannot describe but is not classic New Order.

I just don't dig it as much. The reason I enjoyed Behind Closed Doors was because his vocals were back to the more experimental, honest, non-professional feel.

Siren is a great LP, but it is not a classic LP. I play it, I enjoy it, but like Wells says, it doesn't INSPIRE.

And those first New Order LPS inspired, inspired many of us to get into music ourselves. Will this lp get some 17 year old out of bed and into a punk band?

doubt it....

name a band that is as inspirational 25 years after they started as they were in the beginning of their career? low-life is so good because of the memories you have with that album, not on the merit of the songs. to quote an influential band, Times Change. don't come to newOrder looking for an "inspirational" or "shiver inducing" record, it's not gonna happen again. \

on the topic of Bernard's vocals, my opinion is exactly opposite to yours. i love his voice now and place the change all the way back at True Faith. Bernard is probably happier with his voice now. Thieves Like Us is nearly ruined by his terrible vocals. Same for Face-Up and loads of other older tracks. He just didn't have a clue how to sing. There is something to be said of that fragility in his voice but jezus, he's nearly 50! He's not going to wail like a banshee anymore.

i don't look to newOrder for inspiration anymore, just the company of an old friend. a security blanket to keep me warm. i've got tons of other artists that inspire me now so i don't need N.O. to fill that roll anymore.

I'll weigh in.

Two problems for me:

1. not enough layering, personal preference. I tend to like the Baroque sound of earlier editing from the 1980's, and the quicker tempos, but that's expected as the blokes have aged and traded youthful energy for a fuller richness in this latest production

2. I wish they'd turn up the synths a bit on their editing, and add in some more sythns. The lush synths are what's missing in my opinion from the triple success of Barney's vocals, Hooky's base, and the lush synths.

Other than that, this album is definitely richer than all their other albums, broader and more quirky than Get Ready, which was a "conservative" comeback album relying upon the Joy Division element which has the most umph in their legacy. It for me is the Electotherhood album, with the Technique duality and slickness.

It takes some getting used to and it doesn't grab at the heartstrings. Yet nothing usually does when you have years of emotional attachment to certain songs. As a fan, however, the albums have never grabbed me. There are no Joshua Trees for me with New Order. Even Substance, my favorite album, is a collection of songs, many of which haven't aged well with me, but who's brighter moments make it the best in my book. Ceremony and Temptation were never on any album and Temptation was a remix. Perfect Kiss and BLT were remixes and True Faith was the only new song. The B-sides were excellent, 1963, and Lonesome Tonight absolute gems to me that haven't been touched since. Technique is my favorite true album, but it doens't even touch Substance for me. Here's to another substance 2 (some amazing remixabilty is on WFTSC), with some remixes of the new stuff, a new song or 2. They have some good B-sides from GR and HTS as well they can add on.

I've been listening to the album for one month now and this is what happened meanwhile... (I'd be really interested in reading similar comparisons from those of you who've been hearing it for more than three weeks) 01 Who's Joe? - February vote: 9 - March: 8 It's still a great track but a bit too heavy in the perspective of the album, and it shouldn't have opened it (Krafty should have). It can happen I skip it because I can't wait to hear the next track. 02 Hey Now What You Doing - Feb: 9 - Mar 9 This is the next track... as good as one month ago, even more important when I think I can skip a song to reach it... 03 Waiting For The Sirens' Call - Feb: 9 - Mar: 9.5 I have to use half marks to show how this song further improved with me, it wasn't easy to love this chorus because it follows such a superior verse, but now I really like it, and I love the final too... 04 Krafty - Feb: 8 - Mar: 9 It grows and grows and grows! I like it even more now I've seen the video. It's just this huge love anthem and I hope to see fans at concert jumping and singing along the chorus... just give me one! more! day! one more daaaayy! Yeah, it works and it's just unbelievable I was disappointed at first, now I think it could even become a 10... 05 I Told You So - Feb: 7 - Mar: 10 Talking about growers... I'm almost worried this song has become my favourite of the album and one of my all time favourites! It's just a masterpiece, it takes time to understand this work of genius, but after a while I can finally enjoy its immense beauty... That metronomic sequenced banjo is wonderful, the whole production is excellent, it's one of those songs they wanted to be all sunny and positive, but actually comes out very dark and naughty for me, there's something beautifully scary in this song, the whole sound of it, I just picture a druggy freak which could be Shaun Ryder lost on crack in some island near the Barbados writing a fuck off letter to his former girlfriend, something like a sequel to The Beach movie... 06 Morning Night And Day - Feb: 9 - Mar: 9 Perfect to follow I Told You So with its dark beginning following the dark ending of the previous track, but then kick starting a pumped up faster beast... 07 Dracula's Castle - Feb: 8 - Mar: 7 I still like this track, but, like Who's Joe, sounds a bit heavy and out of place between two much better songs, so it's another I can skip... 08 Jetstream - Feb: 9 - Mar: 9 Still an excellent pop single with a wonderful production. 09 Guilt Is A Useless Emotion - Feb: 10 - Mar: 9.5 The not so special chorus brings it down from my number one spot, but I still think overall it's a fabulous song (also with a top production) and features Bernards' most inspired vocal moment of the whole album, when he sings "Just another day in the week..." 10 Turn - Feb: 9 - Mar: 9 Still my fantasy number one in America... 11 Working Overtime - Feb: 6 - Mar: 6 Still a decent B side but a silly way to end an excellent album I love even more than one month ago...

Peter Brown wrote: I'll weigh in.

2. I wish they'd turn up the synths a bit on their editing, and add in some more sythns. The lush synths are what's missing in my opinion from the triple success of Barney's vocals, Hooky's base, and the lush synths.

I liked this point.

Recent-era NO has seen the synths tweaked down and the guitars tweaked up, resulting in a rockier, guitar-driven sound. For me, classic NO has a slightly dancier quality. It's always been an exquisite dance/guitar interplay but the synths have won out in classic albums like Technique, LL and PC&L. The synths still exist in WFTSC tracks but they bubble just beneath the surface a bit.

Don't know whether this is the result of the Gill/Phil interchange, the revivial of indie rock or whether Barney still has the "I've bought this spanking new guitar and I'm determined to use it" outlook he had in GR.

Even memorable Sirens' tunes like WFTSC could do with slightly different levels, for mine. There are some sweet synths in there but these ears would love to hear them higher in the mix.

:\pimp3:

I love this album, its really grown on me. I think it has great "sing along with" ability. I also love guitar more than anything. Synth has grown on me lately. My only real problem is that for the most part Hooky's bass seems a bit hard to hear, maybe its just song quality issues. I do think this album has a great balance though. The beautiful interplay between the different elements (guitar, bass, vocals, synth, etc.) work beautifully I believe. This album to me shows a band who know how to write a incredible song, and are ace musicians.

AJW seems to be changing his tune - bit like NO

Those choruses starting to grow on you? :D

To be honest I haven't heard WFTSC as I am eagerly waiting for it to come out! But since we are talking about albums that have "made my hair stand up" and "inspired me" - can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities? Hans Jugger - always looking for good music to check out

New Order fans, eh?? Pissed off 'cos the singer has learned to sing and the sequencers don't break down any more....

Al Jarvis wrote: If Republic made the hairs on your neck stand-up, Mr Wells, then I should imagine the likes of Low-Life and PC&L might've had the same effect as young Popey's signature -

Nice one, Al! Can I just make another "money shot" reference? :D

I'm suprised AJW rated Republic so highly. PCL and Lowlife are surely NO finest moments (technique is a trifle overrated imo). It's inevitable later stuff would pale - middle age comes to us all. The only other records ever to affect my neck hairs would be the first two massive attack lps.

I love SONG TO THE SIREN , Liz is great

can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities?

The Stills' "Logic Will Break Your Heart" really did it for me at a lot moments - especially after seeing them live in Seattle. The beginning of "Changes Are No Good" really rips.

Thoughts on Siren after living with it for a few days: Very good! Thoughts on Siren after living with it for a month: Fucking Great!

LE Roberts wrote:

can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities?

The Stills' "Logic Will Break Your Heart" really did it for me at a lot moments - especially after seeing them live in Seattle. The beginning of "Changes Are No Good" really rips.

Thanks for the tip I will be checking it out - like the title! HJ

Tarbox23 wrote: Mr. Wells...

I have to agree with you somewhat here. ...

Personally, I think it is Sumner's voice that has waned on me. It all sounds like the 2nd Electronic lp now. His voice got too good, too standard. I liked the New Order that was always on the verge of falling apart. Like Joy Division, there was that sense that at any moment something would break.

But, with the past 2 New Order lps, I have found Sumner's vocals to be too professional, too polished, with a certain inflection I cannot describe but is not classic New Order.

I just don't dig it as much. The reason I enjoyed Behind Closed Doors was because his vocals were back to the more experimental, honest, non-professional feel.

yeah - how dare they have a singer who can actualy sing! has he been practising or something?

Hans Jugger wrote: To be honest I haven't heard WFTSC as I am eagerly waiting for it to come out! But since we are talking about albums that have "made my hair stand up" and "inspired me" - can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities? Hans Jugger - always looking for good music to check out

*Well, my second favourite band are the Pixies, but if we're talking about hair standing up there's one album which 100% does the job: PREFAB SPROUT : Swoon It's amazing, so beautiful, daring, touching, inventive... no other album has ever been like this. Prefab Sprout will make many other great albums, but when they made this debut they had that genius and naivety you can only have on your first album...

Al Jarvis wrote: If Republic made the hairs on your neck stand-up, Mr Wells, then I should imagine the likes of Low-Life and PC&L might've had the same effect as young Popey's signature -

Well of course it goes without saying that every prior NO release was a spine tingling hair raising event... I am lucky to be ancient enought to be able to remember the first touch of the needle after rushing home from the shop on release day of every single and record from Transmission onwards... and PCL is the most important record to me in so many ways that I probably dont even realize them all... I'm sure you dont want me droning on on how special those records were to me; the point was that I felt that way even about Republic (which is often slagged off as weak but to these ears just sounds like a mature version of the original band) but that nothing since the breakup save Behind Closed Doors has provided any of those tingly moments...

Ajw

Mick Aneworderfan wrote:

Hans Jugger wrote: To be honest I haven't heard WFTSC as I am eagerly waiting for it to come out! But since we are talking about albums that have "made my hair stand up" and "inspired me" - can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities? Hans Jugger - always looking for good music to check out

*Well, my second favourite band are the Pixies, but if we're talking about hair standing up there's one album which 100% does the job: PREFAB SPROUT : Swoon It's amazing, so beautiful, daring, touching, inventive... no other album has ever been like this. Prefab Sprout will make many other great albums, but when they made this debut they had that genius and naivety you can only have on your first album...

Yes the early to mid period Sprouts were lovely indeed... Love Breaks Down is a wonderful sappy popsong that still sounds great... I even like the mid period stuff like Jordan and Langley Park... the latter period work is another story however...

Ajw

AJ Wells wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote: If Republic made the hairs on your neck stand-up, Mr Wells, then I should imagine the likes of Low-Life and PC&L might've had the same effect as young Popey's signature -

Well of course it goes without saying that every prior NO release was a spine tingling hair raising event... I am lucky to be ancient enought to be able to remember the first touch of the needle after rushing home from the shop on release day of every single and record from Transmission onwards... and PCL is the most important record to me in so many ways that I probably dont even realize them all... I'm sure you dont want me droning on on how special those records were to me; the point was that I felt that way even about Republic (which is often slagged off as weak but to these ears just sounds like a mature version of the original band) but that nothing since the breakup save Behind Closed Doors has provided any of those tingly moments...

Ajw

Behind Closed Doors is the only NO song since 1993 that gives you tingly shivers?!

That song is awful. I think you'd be a better Fleetwood Mac fan.

Mick Aneworderfan wrote:

Hans Jugger wrote: To be honest I haven't heard WFTSC as I am eagerly waiting for it to come out! But since we are talking about albums that have "made my hair stand up" and "inspired me" - can anyone suggest any other albums by other bands that have had these qualities? Hans Jugger - always looking for good music to check out

*Well, my second favourite band are the Pixies, but if we're talking about hair standing up there's one album which 100% does the job: PREFAB SPROUT : Swoon It's amazing, so beautiful, daring, touching, inventive... no other album has ever been like this. Prefab Sprout will make many other great albums, but when they made this debut they had that genius and naivety you can only have on your first album...

Cheers Mick, I have heard "When Love Breaks Down" by Prefab Sprout and now you have mentioned Swoon, I will try and get hold of it - much appreciated HJ

It's weird I'm getting this replies only now... Well, Swoon is really different from the most known songs of the following album like When Love Breaks Down, it's much less commercial... Steve McQueen (released as Two Wheels Gold in America) is a record made of beautiful pop songs, Swoon is the weirdest and most touching experiments you can hear in music history. Balancing perfectly the work of the brain with the work of the hearth, daring and amazing inventiveness with beauty and melody, the genius with the sensitivity. Check the ambitious and heartbreaking wonder of songs like Couldn't Bear To Be Special, I Never Play Basketball Now or Technique (great song title too, I've tried to name a band of mine Technique because it referred to New Order AND Prefab Sprout, but was voted out and then discovered it already existed)... And to think it didn't include their best song ever, the earlier single Radio Love... Anyway I think that you should give a chance to the latest albums too, they require much more attention, but you're rewarded after all. I know it's a paradox, but it's unbelievalby easier to like the weirdest songs by Prefab Sprout, because they immediately hit you with those emotional and spectacular chord changes and the melodic intuition, so it's then harder to appreciate much more conventional songs like those on Andromeda Heighths or The Gunman... On these last albums, Paddy McAloon seems to search for the perfect pop song by the most traditional standards, though always at peerless high level, once you get the immense beauty still present in those songs you're going to love them as well. If you still want to hear the most experimental Paddy, then check his solo album, I Trawl The Megahertz, the only true song, Sleeping Rough, is guaranteed to reduce to tears the toughest of the hooligans, and the rest is a wild instrumental journey through talk radio. The saddest fact of the whole story is that Paddy has decided to stop music, not because of his well known horrible sight problems (repeated retinas detachements), but because he's disappointed by EMI's promotion of his latest works! And you can't blame a lack of inspiration, since he'd have already a couple of new albums ready... Weird, wonderful and unique genius!

Bo Bo Bee, Bo Bee, Bo Bo Bo Bee, Bo Bee, Bo I couldn't bear to be special, I couldn't bear, couldn't bear. I couldn't bear, right ?

Think of all the things that grew up here, Long before we moved here; all of it good and strong, And all of it gone. After that last unholy row

• I never, erver play, basketball now. It joins a list of things I'll miss like fencing foils And lovely girls I'll never kiss.

Verse and chapter they unfurl, - and sprinkle it upon the world. Technique ! Their eyes don´t fill with wonder when you speak. And I loathe the stilted way you made me speak. Without recourse to lying distortion or cheating.

Its very enjoyable reading other NOOL'ers discussing my second favourite band - Prefab Sprout