WFTSC Alternative Album Cover?

What do you make of this WFTSC cover found on Amazon.com.  [^o)]

Is it a bunch of crap or is it another version of the cover?  If you click on the picture it also gives you a back view with song titles.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007TF0T0/ref=m_art_li_64/002-7784574-2568059?v=glance&s=music

wow...that is weird...

I wonder if that is Barney's yacht?

Weird indeed. New Order entering their Jimmy Buffett stage....

It be a slow way to meet any sirens on any of those boats.

Yeah, I saw that too the other day. Me thinks  it's a disgruntled New Order fan working at Amazon.com who doesn't very much like the "No" cover art and decided that their choice would be better? Or, is it possible that the "No" cover is a big scheme with the "real" cover unveiled at the last minute?

I can make out the name on one of the boats as either Paradise or Mr. Disco    

Spotnick wrote:

Nice finding...

Now, was the other one a joke on us just to mess with bootleggers or what?

P/S: Sorry if the edit I did of the original looks like it didn't get edited at all ;)

Could this be the cover that was pulled due to the tsunami tragedy ?  Looks more like Key West than the Indian Ocean.

I don't have a clue on how to paste pictures to threads, so the edit looks fine with me.  

Lake Effect wrote:

Spotnick wrote:

Nice finding...

Now, was the other one a joke on us just to mess with bootleggers or what?

P/S: Sorry if the edit I did of the original looks like it didn't get edited at all ;)

Could this be the cover that was pulled due to the tsunami tragedy ?  Looks more like Key West than the Indian Ocean.

I don't have a clue on how to paste pictures to threads, so the edit looks fine with me.  

I thought the original was some asiatic woman under a Balihai-style waterfall?

On VH1 Classic they were showing the NO orange cover that everyone else has seen...so I doubt that is a fake one.

The photo for the cover which never happened is in the Time Life book - The Great Photographers..

She is not Asian and she is not under a waterfall..

erm it has to be someone havin a laugh surely?.clapped out looking old boats

The Krafty image is from a book called OK OK OK - it just had to be this one for all the above reasons

• there is another album cover contender in the book too.  There were many..

PS How did you know about that Little Chef?

I thought the Krafty cover was exclusive for the single only, not taken from somewhere. And does anyone actually know if that boat yard is actually going to be WFTSC's cover? Makes sense in a way, Barney liking boats and all.

Spotnick wrote:

Howard, since you designed most of the recent New Order artworks... is there any truth in the boat cover or not?

Plus you just confirmed the tsumami theory, right?

Nice to have somebody this involved on the site!

Before the album is released I couldn't possible say yes or no and ruin all your fun..

I'm assuming that the "No" sleeve is a slip cover, and that this is the booklet cover in the jewel case.

Howard. gis a job, I could do that.

HowardWakefield wrote:

Before the album is released I couldn't possible say yes or no and ruin all your fun..

So Howard, are you here because you are a fan or to gauge our reactions to your work (or both).

If you ARE a fan, how does it feel, being able to work for a band you respect in that way?

Ursaminorjim wrote: I'm assuming that the "No" sleeve is a slip cover, and that this is the booklet cover in the jewel case.

Had the same thought myself.

Anythings's better than orange on white... So bring up this rusty ships as a cover. I like that one.

Old Blue wrote:

Ursaminorjim wrote: I'm assuming that the "No" sleeve is a slip cover, and that this is the booklet cover in the jewel case.

Had the same thought myself.

That's a good theory. Allthough I don't like that much of those slip cardboard sleeves. It protects the jewel case nicely but it's, after all, kind of useless and impractical. And if the case was this, what would be the cover on the Vinyl like? Like in Interpol's new album, "Antics" the cover in vinyl was the same as on that slip cover..

I guess New Order is the only band whose fans are so on to the sleeves and the artwork

there is a link (http://www.jasonfulford.com/OK.html) who shows some pic's from the OK OK OK book. The krafty photo inspiration is there.

Asuming there is another album cover contender in the book, the pic showing a airplane (besides the highway pic) could be used for jetstream.[*-)]

Rodrigo

So there is still a chance that a cat could make it on the front of the new album ...

Its better then the "No" cover!

Rodrigo wrote:

there is a link (http://www.jasonfulford.com/OK.html) who shows some pic's from the OK OK OK book. The krafty photo inspiration is there.

Asuming there is another album cover contender in the book, the pic showing a airplane (besides the highway pic) could be used for jetstream.[*-)]

Rodrigo

Anyone remember me posting a thread about the WFTSC sleeve before we saw the orange NO? I said the sleeve was of an aeroplane-thats the same photo in the above link!!!

Perhaps it'll have a flippable jewelcase slip.

"Anythings's better than orange on white... " (Andy "Access Denied")*

Well, the ad that was in Mojo looked pretty great. There were only some very slight changes (the color was more golden-brown on off-white than safety orange on bright white, the "No" was justified center, and there was no band name/album title text on it), but it made a WORLD of difference.

I'm still thinking it's a slipcover, but maybe the jewel case inserts are individual cards (à la "Low-life" or Sonic Youth's "Experimental Jet-Set, Trash and No Star") instead of a booklet? That'd be nice.

*for some reason, the quote feature's giving me grief.

Spotnick wrote: How about having the album released with multiple covers? so mad collectors would buy more than 1 copy just for the artwork?

No way. I only do that for Saint Etienne and Pet Shop Boys. ;)

See what I mean about the trouble with the quote feature? What the hey!

Spotnick wrote: How about having the album released with multiple covers? so mad collectors would buy more than 1 copy just for the artwork?

Nonononononono, not a good idea. I still haven't good all colours of the Procession 7"...

pull your finger out then!

there's a complete set on e-bay at the moment...

Spotnick wrote: How about having the album released with multiple covers? so mad collectors would buy more than 1 copy just for the artwork?

just like Iron Maiden sort of thing.

any kind of album cover is ok with me as long as i have my cd. now stop complaining and be thankful for what you've got

hibster wrote:

pull your finger out then!

there's a complete set on e-bay at the moment...

I've got 6 colours already, do I really need to buy the complete set for 80+ $?

BTW: brown, orange and one of the blue's missing, ... but I have a portuguese one... If anyone wants to help me out, just send a mail...

I see a ship in the harbor...

Spencer Chow wrote: I see a ship in the harbor...

Just so's you know, Ally - the image with the boats is not the "original" withdrawn cover.

Well, I don't know about anybody else but I've braced myself for Ally's next response.

I'd put a pan of chips on in case we were in for a longy.

I'm only jesting Ally 5,000.

I'd only put a slice of toast in.

Spotnick wrote: If you read this thread completly, you'll see that the real New Order designer is posting in it, and HE DIDN'T DENY IT.

Assuming, of course, that HowardWakefield isn't an alias.

Well, if that IS the withdrawn cover then the world's absolutely fuckin' retarded.

So, Howard - spill already. What's the cover?

once again - that is NOT the withdrawn cover

it may be the replacement cover, that's what Howard won't say but at no point is it suggested that is the withdrawn sleeve.

The withdrawn image was taken in 1955. Peter took the picture of the boats... and no, it's not the cover.

Then how'd it end up as the cover on Amazon.com?

This whole cover/artwork -thing is about to reach some institutional measures... which is nice!

in the new issue of mojo, there's a small article about peter saville and his joy division/new order covers, and that he wanted to do a recreation of the P,C&L cover, but using real flowers for WFTSC.  apparently, the band didn't like it at all, so that's where they arrived at the NO cover.  too bad.  i think that would have been a great idea.

The withdrawn image is not going to be in the booklet at all. When we were asked not to use it, we decided it could not be used anywhere as would not fit in with the rest of the images that Peter took. It's in the Time Life book I mentioned earlier if you are interested...

Someone bring that image please! I'm too curious to see it... This is a great idea, showing a basic part of the artwork only to reveal the rest when you get the actual CD in your hands... I've always said the "No" cover wasn't a good idea unless it was a layer like the PSB Bilingual cover, though I still wonder why such a plain font (even if I understand the concept is to look basic and everything...). Love the Krafty sleeve though.  BTW it's great to have here the disciple of GOD (God Of Design)!

Sorry, after reading the whole thread I'm lost a bit. Can someone please summarise the real deal?

as far as I understand there are four covers in discussion

1. a picture from 1955 which noone of us has seen yet, was meant to be the real cover, got withdrawn for unknown reasons

2. the amazon-picture of the two boats, taken by Peter Saville, status unknown

3. the PC&L flower reminiscence by Peter Saville, withdrawn cos the band didn't like it

4. the orange NO-cover, most likely the one we will see. Chosen because Saville and the band didn't come together and some cover had to be chosen.

Is this so far correct?

1. Supposedly a picture of an Asian looking woman in a lagoon, withdrawn following the tsunami.

2. From what Howard Wakefield has said, I'm guessing it's an image that will be in the CD booklet - but not the actual cover.

3. I think I read that Barney in particular didn't like that idea.

4. Replacement for 1. May be the actual cover, may be a slipcase. It's definitely the cover of the promo.

Old Blue wrote:

1. Supposedly a picture of an Asian looking woman in a lagoon, withdrawn following the tsunami.

2. From what Howard Wakefield has said, I'm guessing it's an image that will be in the CD booklet - but not the actual cover.

3. I think I read that Barney in particular didn't like that idea.

4. Replacement for 1. May be the actual cover, may be a slipcase. It's definitely the cover of the promo.

Alternative 3 would be so inappropriate for this album.

Well, then it would be nice to see pictures of 1. and 3.

Any chance to see them? Howard?

I'm not sure if the basket of flowers option ever got past the idea stage before being dismissed. I think Sav said that he was thinking of recreating the PCL sleeve using real flowers - not that he'd actually done it.

Much as I like the simple typography which appears on NO's material, I would be pleased to see some kind of water based chariot for WFTSC.

An image, perhaps with suitably minimal type, would be very fitting.

I happen to have a copy of the Time Life book Howard's refering too, there's a handful of images dated 1955 none with an asian women or a waterfall... my guess until Howard puts this to bed is either the Cartier Bresson or Robert Frank.

There's another photo by Bill Brandt one of his signature nudes i.e. shot using a wide angle lens and a small aperture to create distortion...and another titled Black Sun by Minor White.

That's about it dated 1955.

EE circa 1955...

HowardWakefield wrote: EE circa 1955...

Are you free to say where the photo of the boats was taken?

I think Henry Bakewell only posts once a day P - if your lucky he may return at midday tomorrow to post a response.

You may have to curtail one of your legendary coffee breaks though.

huntsman wrote: I think Henry Bakewell only posts once a day P - if your lucky he may return at midday tomorrow to post a response. You may have to curtail one of your legendary coffee breaks though.

I don't take coffee breaks, H. Coffee consumption is an integral part of my day, seamlessly interwoven with everything else.

Although I vaguely recall that I may have used the term as a euphemism for something else not long ago.

It took an additional post to clear that one up P. I like to keep you on your tootsies.

It's good to know that someone is paying attention and keeping me honest.

huntsman wrote: I think Henry Bakewell only posts once a day P - if your lucky he may return at midday tomorrow to post a response. You may have to curtail one of your legendary coffee breaks though.

Apparently he isn't free to speak, or doesn't care to.

I heard he makes exceedingly good cakes. Perhaps Mr. Kipling himself has put a gagging order out on Henry? - if the recipe to Cherry Bakewells gets out it could shake the foundation of human society to the core.

Perhaps he doesn't want anyone to know he's been to Key West.

There's always the possibility that a dolphin performing at a show will appear on the cover.

Yes, there is always that possibility, particularly if ITYS is released as a single.

Good work on the cover Howard. It can’t be easy to be involved in one of the few album sleeves that people seem to care about, but it must be fun all the same. Working with Peter Saville must be endlessly fascinating – more so than viewing his work, I love hearing him talk, or reading him – although someone here said that he likes taking off David Brent on a regular basis (oh, shame).

Whatever happened to “The Apartment” – has it been kept in more or less the original shape it was left, or did its new owner overhaul it. I was very impressed after viewing some photos of it on Ben Kelly’s website recently.

4 WFTSC related questions:

Will the “No” be orange like the Observer Music Monthly advert, or the gold of the Mojo advert?

Why did you drop the Avant Garde typeface used early on for Krafty? – Was it in order to keep “continuity” across the albums and singles because of the switch to the “No” that we (well, at least me) all know and love after the Tsunami?

What was the name of the Time Life photography book? (There are several listed in my college library, and yes, those study breaks are far too long).

Did you have anything to do with the IPOD that Warner Bros Germany is giving away?

Your questions answered:

The colour is Orange Pantone 021.

The Avant Garde was changed after the Elisofon image was withdrawn to suit the 'No'

The book title is The Great Life Photographers

We had nothing to do with the iPod.

PS

the apartment was dismantled after we left - I don't think the new owners got it...

PPS

Yes, Peter does a good David Brent / Paul Whitehouse impression.

So who is going to find the "Elisofon image" from The Great Life Photographers for us?

By, you've got to be quick to catch Henry Bakefield haven't you!

He was in like Flint there. You wait all day then 3 questions are answered at once, typical.

Oops I thought Howard was talking about 'Time Lifes Great Photographers' not 'Time Lifes Great Life Photographers' so my money's on this image:

I'm probably wrong though

That'll do.

Bang some white-out text top left and we'll be smoking.

I thought there was supposed to be a woman and a waterfall?

If we ask Clockwork Orange nicely, he (or she) may point the question to Cherry Bakewell who'll storm a response back before its even been posted.

huntsman wrote: If we ask Clockwork Orange nicely, he (or she) may point the question to Cherry Bakewell who'll storm a response back before its even been posted.

Are you suggesting, H, that there are two apparently separate and distinct posters here who are really one and the same person?

This is calling the kettle black, but perhaps.

If we analyse Cherry's activities during the threads he seems to react only to rumour busting questions. For instance, I'd stand no chance asking why potatoes are sometimes soft in the Winter time. My guess is that he simply would not respond.

It could be that the quick-fire Q and A session of some 4 hours ago was simply a robot and human posting as one.

huntsman wrote: This is calling the kettle black, but perhaps. If we analyse Cherry's activities during the threads he seems to react only to rumour busting questions. For instance, I'd stand no chance asking why potatoes are sometimes soft in the Winter time. My guess is that he simply would not respond. It could be that the quick-fire Q and A session of some 4 hours ago was simply a robot and human posting as one.

Nevertheless, it's nice to be getting some inside information, whatever the story may be.

If anyone has the inside info. - its JG.

Check the stats. P. Waterfall and babe exonerated.

Do keep with it.

Thanks for answering those questions Howard.

Just as well that, as Brent says, you “Can be a funny man and a great boss – its not mutually exclusive”. It really is a pity that the Apartment wasn’t kept. It just looks sublime from the images I’ve seen of it.

Although what you do with Peter is Design, rather than Art, it does have an Impact – if only for the fact it is mass-produced. After school, and being quite unsure of myself (profession wise anyway :)  ), at the age of 18 I decided on a course of Mechanical Engineering for the wrong reasons- stability, vague technical aptitude, etc (alas I am but ¾ of the way through it, but being the stubborn type, want to finish). At that stage didn’t have the balls to follow what I was talented rather than good at, and go do what I really wanted to do – which was Architecture.

In college I got involved in various campaigns and groups of a socialist ilk, and really into social theory (including, stupidly - Situationism). When I got into New Order and started mopping up the back catalogue, I really found myself more and more drawn to the Sleeves. I really found reading and listening to Peter inspiring (yes, and that’s a powerful word to use in the sphere of fandom). His words and works (esp. in the book) imparted an appreciation and enthusiasm for design that I hadn’t given enough thought to until then. The book seemed to tie in everything from Baudrillard to the Bauhaus in a manner that I hadn’t considered – being more interested in the social rather than the “Art” end of any theory. I decided to read a little more about whatever Art was available in Dublin before moping about the galleries, and really began to take Art and Design theory (and history) a lot more seriously.

In short, the book didn’t change my life, but just shifted my focus. If I have a “most important” or “most formative” book, it is “Designed by”.

Unlike you and Peter, I’m not really interested in perusing a career in Graphics (my sense of colour isn’t great). However, I have recently started seriously compiling a portfolio with the aim of furthering my studies in Architecture. The sketches and ideas now go into a little white box, and some even make it into proper drawings and models.

If the man himself ever has doubts, you can tell him that he has helped lift one head out of the sand (or that he has created another monster).

Anyway- from what I gather you probably have a long night of work ahead of you. Good luck with the rest of your career, and if the actual album (rather than the 300x300 pixel jpeg we are looking at and commenting on) is anything nearly as good as 316, then I for one will be a happy “punter”.

Well that just about clears up any questions we had.

HowardWakefield wrote: The photo for the cover which never happened is in the Time Life book - The Great Photographers.. She is not Asian and she is not under a waterfall..

Waterfall denied; Asian denied. Woman not so clear. "She" could be a ship of course.

Cloaks and Daggers indeed.

Clockwork is a very efficient posting mechanism.

huntsman wrote: Cloaks and Daggers indeed. Clockwork is a very efficient posting mechanism.

Things haven't been this lively since the days when you could edit your own posts without being caught.

It's a hoot.

I'm half expecting Steve Morris to post up his weekend shopping list.

huntsman wrote: It's a hoot. I'm half expecting Steve Morris to post up his weekend shopping list.

Or Ana hers.

They should collaborate.

... catch you tomorrow.

Sleep tight.

What the shite?

I go away for a day and suddenly Lil' Pat and Mr. Huntington have their own ASK ROCKET thread? Will wonders never cease? (Yes.)

So is Elisofon the name of a photographer or a camera or what?

Johnny Giles wrote:

patrick wrote: So is Elisofon the name of a photographer or a camera or what?

Eliot Elisofon was an influential American photographer.

Now, brown bread.

Thanks, JG. And was that picture of ships (not the Key West one) in fact done by him?

JG's probably going to close this thread soon, so if anyone has anything they need to get, can they go and get it now because you won't be able to get back in when the bell goes.

huntsman wrote: JG's probably going to close this thread soon, so if anyone has anything they need to get, can they go and get it now because you won't be able to get back in when the bell goes.

JG, or HW?

I did wonder if I should have written HW.

It's almost midday, he may turn up as Clockwork Orange still has a full remit of unanswered questions.

huntsman wrote: I did wonder if I should have written HW. It's almost midday, he may turn up as Clockwork Orange still has a full remit of unanswered questions.

I need my daily fix of brown bread crumbs. Or perhaps pumpernickel.

Tahiti not Spain...

Hey Howard...what's Peter Saville up to these days?

It's too bad NO didn't want to go with the reconstruction of the PC&L cover...I thought it would've been a great idea.  Why didn't the band go for it?

Johnny Giles wrote:

Patrick - This has been answered by HW a few pages back, no woman, no waterfall.

*Yeah but what about that article linked on this forum which revealed the true reason behind the artwork change? Was it totally made up?

almanso wrote: i think i found it. if is not the cover then it´s one of the images took by Elisofon on the South Seas of Tahiti that are inside this magazine. but i couldn´t find any of those on the net. http://www.2neatmagazines.com/covers/1955cover/1955-Jan-24.jpg January 24th, 1955

That sounds like the right thing. Right year. Now all we need is for someone to find the actual photo.

donello wrote:

Hey Howard...what's Peter Saville up to these days?

It's too bad NO didn't want to go with the reconstruction of the PC&L cover...I thought it would've been a great idea.  Why didn't the band go for it?

The biggest problem is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the content of this album.

Another problem is repeating the cover is not original and can be confusing for people less familiar with New Order, who might believe, looking quickly in a  shelf of a record store, that WFTSC is just another version of PCL and not a different album released, my God!, 22 years later!!!

I agree with the decision of not doing it, I'd just like to know the true cover of the new album and knowing how they went from that to the actual cover which is now in the shop... it's not that they slightly modified it or thought at a different concept with a picture, it would look like they gave up on doing a proper cover at all, almost as if that "No" stands for "No, we won't do another cover if you don't want the one we made...". I know I'm inventing everything, but it would look like a protest against the ultra-PC paranoia of Warners...

You are getting closer now... Cross reference this image you found with the Time Life book I mentioned earlier and you have cracked it...

If you are looking at the right spread - it is not the horse!

The artwork is INSIDE the booklet.

Sorry for the late reply.

Probably you won't remember when I wrote on the Ceremony ML that I was going to burn down the fookin record shop because Get Ready was taking more than three weeks to arrive...

Well, this time I didn't even want to try, I was already prepared to order it online... today I entered a record shop for an entirely different reason, I was just looking for a CD of an Italian band, but what do I hear pumping on the store stereo?!

So goodbye love, you were not real...

Hey but this is Dracula's fookin Castle!

I know the girl of the shop is a New Order fan so I just tell her "This is a great album, isn't it?"

And she says "Yes really, I adore it!"

I wasn't even thinking at the German (hence European) release which happens before the English, I asked her if it was the MP3 or one of those promo copies which have been sent even here in Italy to record stores, DJs and journalists.

She replies, "No, it's the CD!" and shows me the CD case.

I just smile and say "What, earlier than in UK?"

I immediately notice that, on the side of the cover, you can see in transparency a really nice rainbow shade, and that makes the whole thing prettier.

Yes, the cover is the one we already know.

The rainbow shade is the piece under the CD which has an image a bit similar to Peter Saville's wasted paintings...

Anyway I buy the CD, taking it from a listening post with at least 20 CDs at the centre of the main room of the store.

At home I play it, noticing an overall obvious better sound quality than the MP3 files that we've been hearing in these weeks... songs like Hey Now What You Doing sound even better on the CD, but anyway I think there aren't any differences between the songs, nothing seems changed so the MP3 files didn't come from an early promo CD at some sort of stage before the final mix, but probably from one of those CDs they send to many people when the record is already finished.

While I play it I carefully explore the booklet.

Now read if you really don't prefere to discover it yourself, I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, it's been beautiful for me to discover every page without knowing how it was...

page 1: the cover (all the words on the booklet have been written in orange on white, the CD itself too)

page 2: the cover folds inside like a book, and there's the first photo, it's sort of dark but there's just this lonely parassol with ads (one I think it's Nestea) closed on what's likely to be a seaside and clouds in the sky.

page 3: only the title

page 4: only the titles (the back cover of the CD case is the same but with the label info and the barcode added)

page 5: now I really like this picture, there's a rose out of focus, and behind it a suburban building similar to the one where the young couple of the video of Krafty go...

page 6: a rabbit

page 7: credits: Notice that the backing vocals of the title track are not credited, while all the others are (usually Dawn). Now we could even think it's Gillian?!

A sound engineer called Cenzo Townshend appears on most tracks, do you know anything about him?

page 8: this just looks like some technical equipment

page 9: other credits. The other vocalist with Dawn Zee on Guilt is Beatrice Hatherley. Keyboards and programming by Max Quayle... I'm proud one of the assistants is of Italian origins, Marco Migliari...

page 10: Art direction Saville, photography Saville (interesting he brought them) and Anna Blessman. Design Wakefield.

page 11: the harbour which appeared on Amazon and was thought to be a possible alternative cover... I think the seaside of page 2 is just placed on the right of what we see on page 11, which is kind of weird as it should be the other way round... the back cover folds inside like in page 2, hoping it didn't cost too much or they'll loose money like with Blue Monday...

page 12: only the numbers of the barcode...

The side of the CD case reads like this:

code title NEW order

All in all not a bad artwork once you have it in your hands and see it as a whole discovering the details.

I'm still not entirely convinced about the "No", but I admit it was instantly recognizable between all the other CDs in the shop, it's just really different... you walk there and all of a sudden you notice this huge "No", you just have to look what it is... the colour is alright... the rainbow shade on the left makes it prettier... and the booklet is just fabulous, almost as good as Republic... overall the photos have a melancholic feeling... the closed parassol, the rabbit, the  old quiet harbour... but the rose in the suburb is an element of beauty and hope...

Too bad I don't have a scanner, but it's also really beautiful to discover it yourself...

What looked like a poor idea on my computer is actually very beautiful once I have it in my hands... I'm just happy to see that big orange "No" on my desk... I take back my skepiticism and admit this is a great artwork. Well done Mr. Wakefield...