A lot of old ground and a few new insights. No mention of any live shows here, although the interview is a few weeks old now.
Peter Hook - New Order, Band in Motion *After a lengthy eight year absence that gave every impression of a permanent split, New Order unexpectedly re-emerged in 2001 with a fresh take on their existing formula. Now, in 2005, the band have cemented their return to form with a brand new album Waiting For The Sirens' Call. And so the hit machine that is New Order trundles on relentlessly.Twenty five years after the death of their leader Ian Curtis left Joy Division high and dry, the remaining members have carried his legacy to undreamed-of heights. As New Order they broke free from the shackles of the traditional guitar, bass, drum sound to successfully create a bridge between the disparate worlds of post punk new wave and dance music. They survived the closure of The Hacienda club, the bankruptcy of their label Factory Records and a torturous touring schedule which conspired to silence their head drilling beats following 1993's Republica album. Peter Hook has been there since day one and has seen it all. In this week's X-Press Interview the bass player speaks down the line from Hannover where the band were about to be honoured for their longevity at the German Dance Music Awards. By ROBERT PENNEY**Are you looking forward to the Dance Music Awards tonight?**We've reached that stage in our career when everybody gives you Lifetime Achievement awards and you can't tell whether it's a good thing or a bad thing (laughs)! They are just saying "Well, you're too old! Your LPs aren't good enough for a Best LP award but have a Lifetime Achievement award instead!" (laughs). No, it's good. I'm being a bit facetious. I'm looking forward to it.**For a while there it looked like the band weren't going to play together again, what changed?**Well, in 1990, when it got really bad with Factory Records and The Hacienda, we were just playing and doing what we do best. Our affairs just weren't being handled very well and we were dragged into it. I think it's quite a natural thing that you turn on the people that are the closest to you when things go wrong. That's exactly what we did. Basically we were just so fed-up that the only thing we all wished for was escape. I think we all thought if we escape the New Order cash cow, then they'd have to do something about it and sort it out, which is exactly what happened. Factory then realised that we weren't going to carry on making records and they started sorting everything out. Unfortunately it had gone too far and Factory went bankrupt and The Hacienda went bankrupt. They just couldn't sustain it any longer and basically the four of us went our own sweet little separate ways. Speaking for myself I quite enjoyed it. I had a great time with Revenge and Monaco but Rob Gretton, our manager, god rest his soul, was never satisfied with how we finished, because we had never said anything to each other. We just walked away and never contacted each other for five years. So he was fed-up with people asking him what was happening, so he got in touch with us in 1998 and said "Well, you sort it out because I need to know just so I can tell everybody that you aren't going to do anything". So we all had a meeting. Funnily enough it which was the first time we'd all met in five years and it was very, very nerve-racking but we got through it. Once all the problems with Factory and The Hacienda were gone, you realised the thing that was important to you was New Order, the music. There was still a chemistry and there was still something in New Order. So basically it was like going home for Christmas. You dread it but once you get there you soon settle in, don't you? So we just carried on basically and started again. We tried a few gigs to see it was still going to work. It did, so we decided to make another record.**Speaking of settling in, how is (new band member) Phil (Cunningham) doing?**He's doing alright, I think he had the nous to know that he wasn't going to come in and change New Order and make it an R&B band or something. But in all fairness to him he's fitted in really well. He's contributed a lot and he's helped to write. He's now a full writing member of New Order.**There was a quote from Phil that for this album the band actually threw away ideas for being too 'New Order-y'. Was that really the case?**Yes, it was. You see what happens is, Phil, while he's a fan of New Order, doesn't know all the songs. So what happens is when we write a song that sounds like an old New Order one, Age Of Consent or a Joy Division one, we say "Oh, it sounds too 'New Order-y', we'll have to get rid of it." Meaning it sounds like one of the old ones, which obviously Steve and Bernard understand but Phil didn't, you see. We were having to play then and then go "No, listen you can't do that one, it sounds like The Village or Leave Me Alone". But he was saying (adopts over-exaggerated Manchester accent) "Nooo man, but it's a great riff, let's use it!" and we were saying "No we can't, Phil, it's too New Order-y!" I think now he's grasped that concept.**Parts of the new single Krafty were originally written for Hybrid (Welsh dance trio). Were they OK with you keeping it for yourself?**It wasn't really written for Hybrid, it was written with Hybrid. I did a song with Hybrid and there was a middle bit, but they only used three bars. I listened to the riff and thought "That's too good, that!" I just took it back and the boys knew and they just said "Yeah!".**How did New Order's appearance on the Gwen Stefani solo album come about?**That didn't work out very well, actually, the Gwen Stefani thing. What happened was, we were asked to play on the track The Real Thing. First of all they wanted us to write with them, which didn't happen because we were too busy. Then they sent us a track and said "Could you play on this if you fancy it?" Basically Bernard tried the backing vocals and the A&R man was insistent that I play bass on it. So I worked very hard, played bass on it quite well, and they didn't use it. So I was really pissed off. What had happened was that Nellee Hooper (producer) and Spike (Mark 'Spike' Stent', mixer) had led me up the garden path. So I wasn't exactly very happy with the way it turned out. I've spoken to Gwen about it and she apologised. It wasn't exactly the most fruitful of collaborations but we've been talking about doing something in the future. **What did you make of Kylie Minogue's Blue Monday remix?**I thought it was absolutely fantastic, I know it's a nod off Cathy Dennis, but at the Brit Awards, where it was first shown, I wasn't aware that she'd done it. My manager had forgotten to tell me about it. So I was just sat there watching the telly and it just came on and I nearly fucking fell off my chair (laughs)! It's pretty good actually because it's given us a new lease of life to play it live. Now we merge Kylie's song into our version of Blue Monday, so we actually play a medley for that.Are you still working on getting David Beckham to rap on the remix of World In Motion?(Laughs) Err... No. The FA (The Football Association) wouldn't let us redo the song. Well, they couldn't stop us redoing the song but they could stop David Beckham appearing on it, which is what they did. Somebody else had an official FA football club song that the players were on and they didn't want the competition, so the FA wouldn't let him do it. Which is a great shame because we had great plans for doing a proper bangin' 2004 mix. But maybe next time.**Football songs have a reputation for being generally pretty crap. How does it feel to have recorded probably the best one ever in World In Motion?**The thing about that is, it was such a perverse thing to do that it really appealed to us. The guy at the FA, who was in charge of this department, if you like, he was fed up with all those Chas 'n' Dave-type sing-alongs. He was a New Order fan and it was his idea actually. I can't remember the guy's name now but he contacted us and said "Listen, I'm sick of all this bloody Chas 'n' Dave stuff, how about doing a proper record?" He asked (Factory label boss) Tony Wilson if New Order would fancy it. Because New Order being the way they are, they always do the thing that is most unlikely. So we did it and it was fantastic! I mean we didn't get much help from the FA or the players really, but that made us more determined. As you say, I think it's one of the best ones. It certainly paved the way for Three Lions (comedians David Baddiel and Frank Skinner's UK hit record with the Lightning Seeds for Euro '96), which I think is very much like it (World In Motion). Lo and behold, as soon as Three Lions appeared the FA realised the importance of having a hit football song and gave them everything and gave us nothing. We didn't even get a football!How do you feel about the Hacienda being turned into a block of flats?(Laughs) I'm delighted to be honest. For the simple reason that if somebody had carried on with it, then it would have been like seeing your girlfriend out with another bloke. It was so special to us and to Manchester, it was the best thing in the world. It's a funny thing, because if you could do that with all your exes it would be great, bury them all at the bottom of the garden. It would be wonderful. It would certainly take a lot of the pain out of relationships wouldn't it? No, I don't mind that all actually. To be honest with you it always gives me a little wry smile whenever I drive into Manchester to know that the Hacienda will always be there. It's like the biggest gravestone.**What did you think of the 24hr Party People film? Would you say it was a fair representation of the Factory era?**Yeah, well, the thing was it was done by Michael Winterbottom from a sort of surreal and light-hearted way of looking at the whole thing. Ian's death was treated quite seriously which was a bit of a shock for all of us because none of us had really confronted that part. But no, I really enjoyed it. The strangest thing is that what I most enjoyed was the parts that they got wrong (laughs)! When it was wrong that's what tickled me the most. But I did enjoy it and I think he (Winterbottom) did very well. It's a laugh. If you didn't laugh, you'd cry.It must be weird watching somebody play you in a filmNo, it was quite nice actually. It's nice while you're alive innit? You've got to look on the bright side haven't you and take the compliment. It does look like this other film about Ian Curtis' life (Control) is getting very close to being filmed. I'm in two films now and I'm still alive! I'll have to bloody watch myself, won't I?**Do you think Ralf Little was a good choice to play you in 24 Hour Party People?**Yeah. It's quite funny really, because I just noticed the other day he's got the same birthday as me (actually their birthdays are five days apart). Which is quite a weird coincidence because he worked with my ex-wife (Caroline Ahern, UK actor/comedienne wrote and starred with Little in The Royle Family TV sitcom) so I'm sure that gave her a few chuckles (laughs)! But no, he was alright. I met him and he seemed quite nice and quite genuine. The only thing they got wrong was that I don't smoke. They had me down as a smoker, that bit about me going through Ian's pocket and all that crap. That was actually Steve (Morris). He said "Well, Ian would fucking do it to me if I was having the fit." And he's right, Ian would have done it to him if he was having the fit, he absolutely would.Like The Cure, it seems that New Order pick up a new generation of fans as they go along. Would you agree with this?(Laughs) Without the lipstick, yeah! Can you believe he's wearing that fucking lipstick at 49?**And the backcombing is looking bad now...*Oh yes, it's very difficult backcombing at 49, I'll tell you. I'm a fan of The Cure apart when they rip off New Order, because sometimes they rip off us off without the grace behind it. I am a fan though. The thing is, as you get older you get a bit more easy-going because in the old days there was a lot of competition and competitiveness.Do you notice at your shows that a lot of the audience are quite young? Many of them would only just have been born when you were making these albumsYeah, there's a lot. You kind of learn to spot young fans. On the last show I did with Monaco in Manchester I was watching these two kids and I thought "Oh, these two are definitely fans, they're definitely going to come over." I was having a drink outside the pub after the gig. I thought they were Monaco fans because they were really young. So anyway, they come over and one of the girls goes "Do you mind if we talk?" and I said "Yeah, of course you can" and she went "What was Ian Curtis really like?" I thought, fookin' hell! She was only 16 and was a huge Joy Division fan. It absolutely flabbergasted me at the time. I thought fookin' hell, if your music can last that long and still move people. One of the funniest moments I remember is when my daughter first moved into college and they were all putting posters up on the walls and helping each other hold them up to get them straight. Her flat mate was putting up a poster of Unknown Pleasures and my daughter went "Oh, me dad was in that group" and this girl started shrieking going "Your dad was in that group?!! Oh my God!" My daughter was just so used to it, she'd just taken it completely for granted and she'd never even thought about it. She phoned me up and said "Oh my God, what were your group like dad?!" (Laughs) It's funny isn't it, as life goes on you get little strange things like that, but the greatest thing in the world and what you want as a musician is to reach people. Me and Steve Morris were talking about this the other day, I don't do anything to promote Joy Division, apart from playing the tunes, but it's quite weird that it's still there and it's still so current and still so important. Like I was at the Brit Awards two weeks ago and Joy Division got nominated for Love Will Tear Us Apart, a song we wrote in three hours, which is unbelievable after 25 years. Robbie Williams did win it in the end and he actually came over and apologised for winning it. (In a special award for the best British song of the last 25 years, Love Will Tear Us Apart came second to the Robbie Williams song Angels)A lot of current bands are influenced by Joy Division and New Order, which may be why you're noticing younger fans at your shows. The thing is, if I was a musician I'd be really pissed off if someone compared me to another band all the time. But maybe these musicians should try harder. But no, it is a compliment and I do acknowledge it even though I'm being given a bloody Lifetime Achievement award, even though the fucking thing makes which makes you feel so old. Can't they give you something that makes you feel young?
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