The future of NOOL

Let's decide.

Best POLL in ages.Voted 2nd.Someone else has realized that THE WRITTEN WORD IS A LIE.Bring back FUN! But don't tell DIGGY MIKE!:D

I have refrained from posting since Monday, but I will make an exception for this.

Thank you, Hank, for raising this question.

And here opens the hornets' nest.

It's a tricky one.

Every time a new generation of NOOLers sign up they inevitably rehash all the old tired threads that we've worn out ad nauseam over the years. How many times have you listed your least favourite NO song, stated a case for The Cure ripping off NO or been involved in a Republic Survivor thrill-fest? No question of the boredom for the rest of us but if the answers aren't covered in FAQs then the NOOBs do have rights to discover more about the band.

On the other hand, there are a couple of seasoned posters who've recently felt harried out of town because they sometimes stray too far from the topics at hand. A real shame for mine, because their unique way of looking at issues made for entertainment that kept a lot of punters coming back to these forums. Laughs in a forum are seriously underrated. Granted, they could have been a bit more judicious in their selections of threads. I've certainly been guilty of thread detours and I can see why some get peeved that their serious dissertation on Ian Curtis's Orwellian lyrics has ended up in a friendly chat about egg sandwiches in Redcar.

At the end of the day there has to be a balance or you run the risk of marginalising some NOOLers, they disappear into the ether and the forum is a lot worse for it.

:\pimp3:

More humour. More alternative ways of looking at the world of New Order (and the world not of New Order). Less repetition of questions asked and answered and topics raised several times on the same page/within the previous 24 hours.

More breasts. More alcohol/whatever floats your boat. Less having to quickly hide the fact you are posting on NOOL when at work when the boss comes round.

Wasn't the off-topic forum created after the exact same argument in the past?

I agree with everything you said Depthy - but would also like to say that in my opinion, the levels of thread hijacking that have gone on recently have showed a certain lack of respect to the original poster.

And I'm sure no-one needs to have flounced off in a lame hissy fit. Everyone's input is justified and welcome. All of the recent banter would make a welcome addition Behind Closed Doors - those "What Are You Blah Blah Blah..." threads are getting really boring now.

8 liars can't be WRONG!:D

Old Blue wrote: Wasn't the off-topic forum created after the exact same argument in the past?

I agree with everything you said Depthy - but would also like to say that in my opinion, the levels of thread hijacking that have gone on recently have showed a certain lack of respect to the original poster.

And I'm sure no-one needs to have flounced off in a lame hissy fit. Everyone's input is justified and welcome. All of the recent banter would make a welcome addition Behind Closed Doors - those "What Are You Blah Blah Blah..." threads are getting really boring now.

Fair call OB.

Although "lame hissy fit" maybe a little harsh, there's been some unkind sentiment floating about that not everyone wants to be part of.

:\pimp3:

OK - I apologise if that sounded harsh. It wasn't meant that way.

Some of us feel that drifting conversations are really what we like best about NOOL, a happy aside to on-topic issues which can sometimes prove rather repetitive, and that those who find such drifting conversations not to their taste can fairly easily simply ignore them. Some of us feel that there is nothing wrong, and really everything right, when a discussion that begins with New Order is able to follow whatever twists and turns the inventive minds of our diverse worldwide membership happen to pursue. Thus, to say “if you want pointless chit-chat, that’s what Behind Closed Doors is for” is not really an adequate response.

Cheers!

Patrick wrote: I have refrained from posting since Monday, but I will make an exception for this.

Thank you, Hank, for raising this question.

Refrain no more Patrick. Keep posting Sir, good obs are hard to come by.:)

PHD wrote:

Patrick wrote: I have refrained from posting since Monday, but I will make an exception for this.

Thank you, Hank, for raising this question.

Refrain no more Patrick. Keep posting Sir, good obs are hard to come by.:)

Sorry but PATRICK has got eyes like an old wounded soldier and HUNTSMAN is Absent Without Leave.Wish they would DISCHARGE DEPTHCHARGE though!:D

PHD wrote:

Patrick wrote: I have refrained from posting since Monday, but I will make an exception for this.

Thank you, Hank, for raising this question.

Refrain no more Patrick. Keep posting Sir, good obs are hard to come by.:)

Thank you very much for your comment, PHD. I am certainly encouraged by the response to this thread.

David Hasselhoff is amusing, entertaining, frequently nonsenical and off-topic. But I realise putting the same picture it's like regurgitate tired old on-topics, uninspiring, same old same old waffle ad naseum.

So, I promise I'll find another picture of the same quality, just wait!

Old Blue wrote: Wasn't the off-topic forum created after the exact same argument in the past?

I agree with everything you said Depthy - but would also like to say that in my opinion, the levels of thread hijacking that have gone on recently have showed a certain lack of respect to the original poster.

I agree. Especially as the "musings" which often take over the original thread are usually about as funny as a boot in the baws.

oldmonkey wrote:

More breasts. More alcohol/whatever floats your boat. Less having to quickly hide the fact you are posting on NOOL when at work when the boss comes round.

Barneys done his best to oblige over the last 15 years, do you want more?

Who likes minty toothpaste?

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Some of us feel that drifting conversations are really what we like best about NOOL, a happy aside to on-topic issues which can sometimes prove rather repetitive, and that those who find such drifting conversations not to their taste can fairly easily simply ignore them. Some of us feel that there is nothing wrong, and really everything right, when a discussion that begins with New Order is able to follow whatever twists and turns the inventive minds of our diverse worldwide membership happen to pursue. Thus, to say “if you want pointless chit-chat, that’s what Behind Closed Doors is for” is not really an adequate response.

Cheers!

I agree!! You all were new here at one point and probably did the same thing!! Who the fuck died and left anyone one in here king/queen of the NOOL castle?? Everyone who signs up for this deserves the chance to speak and conversate with other New Order fans...That's the joy of freedom!! You can choose what you want to talk about. The threads should ideally start with some reference to New Order but hay man a little chit chat here and there is normal...Get over it!!

Have a nice daaaayyy!!!

e

Rorschach wrote: Who likes minty toothpaste?

Gold.

:\pimp3:

FAC103 wrote: I say we should all get drunk and post like our good man Shuglet used to do...

remember the days when we couldn't even read what he was trying to type???

ahhhh...memories...frigging PRICELESS!!!

I would certainly vote for a drunk posting night!

Can we make it a rule that every thread MUST be hijacked?

Personally, I don't mind. Humor always wins out for me.

If you want idle chit-chat, that's what Behind Closed Doors is for.

If you want to make friends online with pointless banter because you've got no friends at home, go ahead and post 1000 times a month about nothing in particular but do it BCD! I don't come to NOOL to make friends or idle chit-chat. I come because i love the band and i want information about the band, past, present and future. I also can't help but laugh at the hordes of pathetic men (boys) who make fools of themselves lusting after every woman that dares post here. Without fail, women posters are the focus and flash point for horny, unstable men who've been so unsuccessful with women in real life, they've taken to flirting online with someone they've never met. Perhaps the saddest, most pathetic thing about NOOL.

Now back to more important matters like: What does 1963 mean? Must have been a few hours since we discussed that one.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I also can't help but laugh at the hordes of pathetic men (boys) who make fools of themselves lusting after every woman that dares post here. Without fail, women posters are the focus and flash point for horny, unstable men who've been so unsuccessful with women in real life, they've taken to flirting online with someone they've never met. Perhaps the saddest, most pathetic thing about NOOL.

Right, Brian, female noolers should be banned. What gives you the right to call anyone unstable?

sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: If you want idle chit-chat, that's what Behind Closed Doors is for.

If you want to make friends online with pointless banter because you've got no friends at home, go ahead and post 1000 times a month about nothing in particular but do it BCD! I don't come to NOOL to make friends or idle chit-chat. I come because i love the band and i want information about the band, past, present and future. I also can't help but laugh at the hordes of pathetic men (boys) who make fools of themselves lusting after every woman that dares post here. Without fail, women posters are the focus and flash point for horny, unstable men who've been so unsuccessful with women in real life, they've taken to flirting online with someone they've never met. Perhaps the saddest, most pathetic thing about NOOL.

Now back to more important matters like: What does 1963 mean? Must have been a few hours since we discussed that one.

Congratulations on your 1963rd post

e

Hey JEFF i see you just got a mention!:D

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

it's not just about Beatrix and it's not about just talking/chatting to her/any girl. it's the one-liners riddled with gradeschool sexual innuendo's and thinly-veiled sexual come-on's. if it were strictly chatting, like you would with a guy, it wouldn't bother me but when i see the same sexually charged messages following female NOOLers around, it disturbs me.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

If it is, I have bad news: she is Mike. Just like that in that movie, "Victor, Victoria"

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

Some of us like her for her many other good qualities.

Yes, Big, you all must be pretty miserable to talk to such stupid girls who occasionally appear here. Who the hell are New Order anyway? It's people like BLT make me leave this place.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

obviously they don't teach "Reading for Comprehension" in your neck of the woods.

Patrick wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

Some of us like her for her many other good qualities.

I've never seen you post any sexually inspired messages to any girls that post here Patrick. I wish more women would post here because it's good to get new/different perspectives on New Order. If you don't fit the profile of a guy who posts lude, inappropriate messages to female members, then i'm not speaking about you.

again, i'd like to state, in case other people who can read but not comprehend words, i'm not speaking about any one female member or any one male offender. this was a general complaint about a pattern of offensive/pathetic posts directed towards women at NOOL.

I think it's natural we don't have many women here. he band is old and a bit undergorund nowadays, the members are not exactly hot anymore...

How many men you would hope find in a Timberlake forum?

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: it's not just about Beatrix and it's not about just talking/chatting to her/any girl. it's the one-liners riddled with gradeschool sexual innuendo's and thinly-veiled sexual come-on's. if it were strictly chatting, like you would with a guy, it wouldn't bother me but when i see the same sexually charged messages following female NOOLers around, it disturbs me.

Something I am probably as guilty of forgetting as anyone else is that something that one person (or one group of people) finds funny will not seem at all funny to someone else. At best unfunny; sometimes even offensive. This point is deep at the heart of the issue being discussed here.

There is an excellent diversity of cultural backgrounds here and by no means are all of the people on the English language threads posting in their first language. Given this, and the fact that I know I’m not the only one to enjoy a drink when I’m posting at night, it's a wonder that this thing works at all.

I find a lot of the posts on here are really really funny. Other things I read here are irritating or boring, other things are informative and thought-provoking. Occasionally someone posts something that makes me angry. I am sure that everyone else feels the same, but everyone will find pleasure in different things they find here.

Ally3000 wrote: I'm not too bothered really. Some of the off topic chat can be entertaining and enforcing a "strictly New Order only" policy would probably be a bit fascist. I've gotten to the point where if I see a thread veering off topic or I read one that blatantly doesn't belong in Digital Republic to begin with (see 95% of Spike's output) I just ignore it. It's up to Spotnick & WenOrder to judge and shift threads that are seriously off-topic to Behind Closed Doors, including this one really. A bit of chatter in the replies shouldn't be a problem, it all adds to the sociability of the place IMO!

Patrick's posts can be quite entertaining, I couldn't really see the point of some of them to begin with but they've grown on me now except when he goes into one sentence "speed-convs" with Huntsman over "favourite pizza topping?" that last four pages, with depthCharge playing devil's advocate

Ally.

i'm quite happy to have both Patrick and Huntsman posting here again. some off-topic derailments spice up the occasional on-topic thread. the whole point of the BCD forum is to give those who desire, a place to talk about anything and nothing, usually at the same time.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

obviously they don't teach "Reading for Comprehension" in your neck of the woods.

So I ask you for clarification of the point you made, and you respond with an insult like that?

Ally3000 wrote: I'm not too bothered really. Some of the off topic chat can be entertaining and enforcing a "strictly New Order only" policy would probably be a bit fascist. I've gotten to the point where if I see a thread veering off topic or I read one that blatantly doesn't belong in Digital Republic to begin with (see 95% of Spike's output) I just ignore it. It's up to Spotnick & WenOrder to judge and shift threads that are seriously off-topic to Behind Closed Doors, including this one really. A bit of chatter in the replies shouldn't be a problem, it all adds to the sociability of the place IMO!

Patrick's posts can be quite entertaining, I couldn't really see the point of some of them to begin with but they've grown on me now except when he goes into one sentence "speed-convs" with Huntsman over "favourite pizza topping?" that last four pages, with depthCharge playing devil's advocate

Ally.

Well, thank you, Ally. I am glad you have enjoyed some of my contributions. I appreciate your passion about things.

It was actually DC and me who were talking about pizza toppings, and it was really a metaphor in any event.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: it's not just about Beatrix and it's not about just talking/chatting to her/any girl. it's the one-liners riddled with gradeschool sexual innuendo's and thinly-veiled sexual come-on's. if it were strictly chatting, like you would with a guy, it wouldn't bother me but when i see the same sexually charged messages following female NOOLers around, it disturbs me.

Something I am probably as guilty of forgetting as anyone else is that something that one person (or one group of people) finds funny will not seem at all funny to someone else. At best unfunny; sometimes even offensive. This point is deep at the heart of the issue being discussed here.

There is an excellent diversity of cultural backgrounds here and by no means are all of the people on the English language threads posting in their first language. Given this, and the fact that I know I’m not the only one to enjoy a drink when I’m posting at night, it's a wonder that this thing works at all.

I find a lot of the posts on here are really really funny. Other things I read here are irritating or boring, other things are informative and thought-provoking. Occasionally someone posts something that makes me angry. I am sure that everyone else feels the same, but everyone will find pleasure in different things they find here.

very true B.I.O. Posts can be interpreted in many different ways. in fact, it seems most of the things i find offensive, don't seem to bother the women posters on NOOL. i don't know of any occasion when a female member has complained about sexual harrassment. it's a personal thing with me that i find extremely offensive.

Patrick wrote:

Ally3000 wrote: I'm not too bothered really. Some of the off topic chat can be entertaining and enforcing a "strictly New Order only" policy would probably be a bit fascist. I've gotten to the point where if I see a thread veering off topic or I read one that blatantly doesn't belong in Digital Republic to begin with (see 95% of Spike's output) I just ignore it. It's up to Spotnick & WenOrder to judge and shift threads that are seriously off-topic to Behind Closed Doors, including this one really. A bit of chatter in the replies shouldn't be a problem, it all adds to the sociability of the place IMO!

Patrick's posts can be quite entertaining, I couldn't really see the point of some of them to begin with but they've grown on me now except when he goes into one sentence "speed-convs" with Huntsman over "favourite pizza topping?" that last four pages, with depthCharge playing devil's advocate

Ally.

Well, thank you, Ally. I am glad you have enjoyed some of my contributions. I appreciate your passion about things.

It was actually DC and me who were talking about pizza toppings, and it was really a metaphor in any event.

A good example of one man's humour not being funny to someone else.

In P and DC's case, they were very likely the only two men in the world that were amused. Does that mean it's not funny? Or valid?

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

obviously they don't teach "Reading for Comprehension" in your neck of the woods.

So I ask you for clarification of the point you made, and you respond with an insult like that?

what needed clarification in my post. wasn't it obvious i wasn't talking about simple chats with women? my post was quite obviously concerned with sexually motivated posts and not simple chit-chat. i thought that was very clear in my message and your statement made it obvious you either didn't read or didn't comprehend my post.

P, good to see you back, mate. If only H decided to return ... We miss you intelligent guys! DC's posts look so lonely without yours. ;)

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

very true B.I.O. Posts can be interpreted in many different ways. in fact, it seems most of the things i find offensive, don't seem to bother the women posters on NOOL. i don't know of any occasion when a female member has complained about sexual harassment. it's a personal thing with me that i find extremely offensive.

If I have ever posted anything the sounds like I'm being a "little boy chasing girls" then I assure everyone that it was intended as humour, a parody of such behaviour. I'd be very sorry if I thought that anyone was offended by anything I'd written (including yourself BLT). If we accept that light hearted banter has a place here, we need to be realistic about the prospects of being misinterpreted from time to time, and do our best to limit offence that may occur.

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: P, good to see you back, mate. If only H decided to return ... We miss you intelligent guys! DC's posts look so lonely without yours. ;)

Thank you very much, M. Perhaps if H happens to look at this thread, he may decide to return.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

So anyone who speaks to Beatrix on here is doing so because she's a girl?

obviously they don't teach "Reading for Comprehension" in your neck of the woods.

So I ask you for clarification of the point you made, and you respond with an insult like that?

what needed clarification in my post. wasn't it obvious i wasn't talking about simple chats with women? my post was quite obviously concerned with sexually motivated posts and not simple chit-chat. i thought that was very clear in my message and your statement made it obvious you either didn't read or didn't comprehend my post.

Possibly a conversation that proves my point, possibly one of us is wrong. In either case, I apologise.

I have two cents as well...

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Some of us feel that drifting conversations are really what we like best about NOOL, a happy aside to on-topic issues which can sometimes prove rather repetitive, and that those who find such drifting conversations not to their taste can fairly easily simply ignore them.

A few off-thread-topic-postings are Ok, I'm guilty myself. What can be a little bit annoying is when there are pages after pages with a "seemingly pointless" dialog of one-liners in a hijacked thread.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

I think they don't stick around because they actually don't obsess as much as we guys (exceptions exist).

/TLV

Everyone do the ostrich!

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Some of us feel that drifting conversations are really what we like best about NOOL, a happy aside to on-topic issues which can sometimes prove rather repetitive, and that those who find such drifting conversations not to their taste can fairly easily simply ignore them. Some of us feel that there is nothing wrong, and really everything right, when a discussion that begins with New Order is able to follow whatever twists and turns the inventive minds of our diverse worldwide membership happen to pursue. Thus, to say “if you want pointless chit-chat, that’s what Behind Closed Doors is for” is not really an adequate response.

Beatrix Kiddo?! Liked NOBabe better... ;) Anyway I totally agree!

TLV wrote:

A few off-thread-topic-postings are Ok, I'm guilty myself. What can be a little bit annoying is when there are pages after pages with a "seemingly pointless" dialog of one-liners in a hijacked thread.

Maybe we can agree on this. Sounds reasonable to me.

His (Late) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Can we make it a rule that every thread MUST be hijacked?

*Hey Pope, isn't it about time you "upgrade" to brand new Pope BeneDick XVI?!

TLV and Daver tie for the most accurate summation of the state of NOOL.

*taking a break from the discussion to DO THE OSTRICH!!!*

Daver wrote: Everyone do the ostrich!

Is it safe to pop my head up and just say.... Let's be friends everyone.:D

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: If you want idle chit-chat, that's what Behind Closed Doors is for.

*Alright, but I don't really have time to follow that forum as well, unfortunately. Now, here we're talking about threads that start on topic of course... if it happens they end off topic it just happens and there's nothing wrong, and it's often a funny aside, as Miss Kiddo said... I like how threads flow naturally and I wouldn't like any repression of that, it's just nice to follow the stream... Of course sometimes they become uninteresting, but then I just have a quick look and scroll and let the others have fun without bothering...

I don't come to NOOL to make friends or idle chit-chat.

*Uh, maybe you should just consider that chit-chat online is quite different from what happens with your usual friends, especially if they don't care about New Order... it's just different, you can't say we need chatting here cos we've got no friends in our real lives cos it's just totally different and one thing doesn't certainly replace the other...

I also can't help but laugh at the hordes of pathetic men (boys) who make fools of themselves lusting after every woman that dares post here. Without fail, women posters are the focus and flash point for horny, unstable men who've been so unsuccessful with women in real life, they've taken to flirting online with someone they've never met. Perhaps the saddest, most pathetic thing about NOOL.

*Oh come fookin on! Sit down and relax! You know what, I've really had a couple of girls known on Italian mailing lists, so you know, talking to them, sometimes, it's not as useless as you'd say! ;) But that's another point, of course. Here we're talking about an international forum and we all just know that it's quite unlikely that a guy living in Tennessee will ever meet NOBabe in Serbia, so just for this very reason, everyone kniows that there's no real "flirting online" here. It's just chatting and there might be some jokes about sex and stuff but if you get disturbed from them you must seek help from a good therapist. The new Pope would be proud of you. BTW I'm sure the most of us have no problems with girls in real life and we just talk to girls on the forum for a friendly chat...

TLV wrote: I have two cents as well...

A few off-thread-topic-postings are Ok, I'm guilty myself. What can be a little bit annoying is when there are pages after pages with a "seemingly pointless" dialog of one-liners in a hijacked thread.

/TLV

What is "seemingly pointless" to one person is centrally important to someone else. The actual topic of the thread may "seem pointless" in some cases.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: sorry Beatrix, but i think i've seen this with many women before you came here. this isn't about you or any other girl that posts here. i was pointing out a painful cycle that continues to repeat itself everytime another girl decides to post here. ever notice how the girls don't stick around for long? take a break from your busy posting schedule to go back through the archives to see for yourself.

*OK, bring some examples please. I don't have the time to browse the archive to find what might have upset you, but maybe you have, and you should anyway, being the person with the problem. And please, next time something upsetting happens don't keep it all inside yourself and share with us your concerns, so we might clarify at the moment and save the time, it's no good to come up with this issues when you can't cite examples... Also, I don't think that what you wrote is encouraging girls to post here, they might be afraid their posts look to be provoking...

Wise words, Parma Mick!

Btw, who's that guy from Tennessee?

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I've never seen you post any sexually inspired messages to any girls that post here Patrick. I wish more women would post here because it's good to get new/different perspectives on New Order. If you don't fit the profile of a guy who posts lude, inappropriate messages to female members, then i'm not speaking about you.

*I'm sure the most of the girls are able to defend themselves if someone posts lude and inappropriate messages. They might also just have a laugh and you shouldn't be too disappointed...

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Wise words, Parma Mick! Btw, who's that guy from Tennessee?

*Thank you. I don't think anyone's from Tennesse here, that's why I used that state to make an example about no one in particular, just living on the other side of the planet from you... ;)

Rocket Mick, the Henry Kissenger of New Order online

Mick Aneworderfan wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Wise words, Parma Mick! Btw, who's that guy from Tennessee?

*Thank you. I don't think anyone's from Tennesse here, that's why I used that state to make an example about no one in particular, just living on the other side of the planet from you... ;)

That's okay. I was only joking about the guy from Tennessee. As for the other side of the planet, anything is possible, my friend. ;)

Oh, alright Maya And if anyone REALLY wants a STRICTLY on-topic place for New Order go to Ceremony Warren will protect you from any off topic garbage

Spotnick wrote: Woah...

People, you take this too seriously...

There is one thing you need to understand... when you start having personal conversations completely unrelated to the thread itself, you kill that thread, as simple as that.

I was curious to see a thread that was going on for 20 pages about a specific topic, but to notice this thread was actually 18 pages of personal discussions within a few people.

I don't mind, but we do have a chat room (is the link still there?) for this kind of thing, or we have the off-topic forum.

It's nothing against the people themselves, it's just a reminder that it's not polite to hijack threads... especially when it's a topic that interests you, having to go through 20 pages for something that should be 2 or 3 pages is sometimes a pain.

From the community standards:

Disruption… Posts which intend to disrupt the topic of conversation or steer the topic away from the focus of the forum and related news. Disruption can include harassment, multiple posting of the same post and posting completely off topic messages.

It's nothing against you, but you are welcomed to use the off-topic forum as you like to avoid disruption...

And I'm not mad when saying this... I understand some people mike like it, but you can simply start your own threads when you are about to disrupt... ?

The Voice of Reason spoke

Totally agree with you.

Spotnick wrote: Woah...

People, you take this too seriously...

There is one thing you need to understand... when you start having personal conversations completely unrelated to the thread itself, you kill that thread, as simple as that.

I was curious to see a thread that was going on for 20 pages about a specific topic, but to notice this thread was actually 18 pages of personal discussions within a few people.

I don't mind, but we do have a chat room (is the link still there?) for this kind of thing, or we have the off-topic forum.

It's nothing against the people themselves, it's just a reminder that it's not polite to hijack threads... especially when it's a topic that interests you, having to go through 20 pages for something that should be 2 or 3 pages is sometimes a pain.

From the community standards:

Disruption… Posts which intend to disrupt the topic of conversation or steer the topic away from the focus of the forum and related news. Disruption can include harassment, multiple posting of the same post and posting completely off topic messages.

It's nothing against you, but you are welcomed to use the off-topic forum as you like to avoid disruption...

And I'm not mad when saying this... I understand some people mike like it, but you can simply start your own threads when you are about to disrupt... ?

When you are about to disrupt? The whole point is that the thing is unplanned. I'm sorry, Nic, but you obviously are missing the entire point.

What chatroom, Nic?

Spotnick wrote: Quite possible Patrick... I'm having health problems since last friday and I'm not too well, but it's getting better, so I'm not "all there" since then.

I don't mind the off-topic posts, but when it becames bigger than the topic itself, I believe it might become a problem...

I'm sorry you're not feeling well, Nic. I hope you feel better soon.

As you may have perceived, this is a very sensitive subject for a great many people.

Spotnick wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote: What chatroom, Nic?

http://www.neworderonline.com/ChatRoom.aspx

I haven't checked it for a while though... might not work, I don't remember if the link is in the Community menu yet or not.

Does work. Didn't know about that. We should maybe use it from time to time.

Sorry you're not well, Nic.

nic makes total sense.

I hate seeing a thread here about something I am interested in, seeing it is 4 pages long and getting all juiced up, then finding that the 2nd reply on page 1 is someone hijacking the thread and then like 4 people have a little talk for 2 pages about some restaurant or toothpaste (!) or whatnot and thus nobody ever answers or relates back to the original interesting thread topic.... and then i get in trouble for starting up a new thread about the topic, when one of those 4 idiots tells me to go read the thread down below about the very same topic that they ruined...

and, BLT, I hear ya about the lame flirts... seems like the second there is a new girl here, there are the same 3 or 4 guys who hijack whatever thread she has posted to and are making the weakest 'jokes' etc etc... it is embarrassing as a male to watch.... and like you say, it is sad that new order fans are like this... most of us get out and about and know how to treat the ladies properly without getting all drooly.

bottom line: nic has it right, we should start a new post if we are gonna hijack... how hard is it? for example, i have been trying to get info about the nyc show, but the threads often go off into neverland, and then there is no central post to follow for info... i am sure this has happened to others with other situations.... sorry i posted so much, this just pisses me off.... we shouldn't need rules or anyone getting pissed off, we should just be friggin adults and be polite to each other by having some basic respect, whether it is with women or offtopic rants... and if we want to be drooling drunk punks, we can go to BCD!!!

eh? :)

p.s. can't the moderator just move threads to BCD??? if the thread begins offtopic??? other forums do this effectively...

p.s.s. this IS an issue... mainly because of the traffic here, and the expense of this site to run, and if we can all make it a bit more efficient (and no, efficient does not equal assholish nazi ocd types as the poll assumes) we can keep it better organized, more informative for new folks, more relevent, and show Cure forums etc just how a REAL forum with smart folks runs....

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: it's not just about Beatrix and it's not about just talking/chatting to her/any girl. it's the one-liners riddled with gradeschool sexual innuendo's and thinly-veiled sexual come-on's. if it were strictly chatting, like you would with a guy, it wouldn't bother me but when i see the same sexually charged messages following female NOOLers around, it disturbs me.

Something I am probably as guilty of forgetting as anyone else is that something that one person (or one group of people) finds funny will not seem at all funny to someone else. At best unfunny; sometimes even offensive. This point is deep at the heart of the issue being discussed here.

There is an excellent diversity of cultural backgrounds here and by no means are all of the people on the English language threads posting in their first language. Given this, and the fact that I know I’m not the only one to enjoy a drink when I’m posting at night, it's a wonder that this thing works at all.

I find a lot of the posts on here are really really funny. Other things I read here are irritating or boring, other things are informative and thought-provoking. Occasionally someone posts something that makes me angry. I am sure that everyone else feels the same, but everyone will find pleasure in different things they find here.

very true B.I.O. Posts can be interpreted in many different ways. in fact, it seems most of the things i find offensive, don't seem to bother the women posters on NOOL. i don't know of any occasion when a female member has complained about sexual harrassment. it's a personal thing with me that i find extremely offensive.

and thats the nub of the issue Brian, you seem to be stating that your own personnal viewpoint should take precedence on this site.

I would guess that the number of female posters on this site has stayed fairly simliar over time, posters like VelocityGirl & April may have left but new female members have joined and some of the girls seem to have been here since the year dot (Agentwood & Shelly spring to mind. ) I also think that the number of men who have joined & left would be fairly comparable in terms of %'s.

In the UK NO are a very male band, as attendance at any concert will show & as someone else said, the internet does seem to be a man thing in the main ( from personnel experiance my wife and her friends, they would rather chat on the phone or in person rather type into a screen) and that could the reason for the relative low number of females here

I find this to be one of the best run boards i visit on the net and wouldn't want it to change at all (luddite that i am)

Tarbox23 wrote:

p.s. can't the moderator just move threads to BCD??? if the thread begins offtopic??? other forums do this effectively...

....

Seb is the biggest culprit half the time - especially when April is around!!!!! ;)

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: it's not just about Beatrix and it's not about just talking/chatting to her/any girl. it's the one-liners riddled with gradeschool sexual innuendo's and thinly-veiled sexual come-on's. if it were strictly chatting, like you would with a guy, it wouldn't bother me but when i see the same sexually charged messages following female NOOLers around, it disturbs me.

Something I am probably as guilty of forgetting as anyone else is that something that one person (or one group of people) finds funny will not seem at all funny to someone else. At best unfunny; sometimes even offensive. This point is deep at the heart of the issue being discussed here.

There is an excellent diversity of cultural backgrounds here and by no means are all of the people on the English language threads posting in their first language. Given this, and the fact that I know I’m not the only one to enjoy a drink when I’m posting at night, it's a wonder that this thing works at all.

I find a lot of the posts on here are really really funny. Other things I read here are irritating or boring, other things are informative and thought-provoking. Occasionally someone posts something that makes me angry. I am sure that everyone else feels the same, but everyone will find pleasure in different things they find here.

very true B.I.O. Posts can be interpreted in many different ways. in fact, it seems most of the things i find offensive, don't seem to bother the women posters on NOOL. i don't know of any occasion when a female member has complained about sexual harrassment. it's a personal thing with me that i find extremely offensive.

and thats the nub of the issue Brian, you seem to be stating that your own personnal viewpoint should take precedence on this site.

where did i state my viewpoint should take precedence? must be UK education that's failing in the comprehension dept. i'm stating that i find it offensive and frankly embarrasing for the Guilty Partners.

Thought you would be watching Footballers Wives SHUG?

The reason I'm reading this right now is that I'm honestly hoping Patrick and Huntsman will decide to come back but hey all I can see here is BLT replies to every freaking post of this thread. How OFF TOPIC!

I think the whole system of ranking members according to how many posts they do may be a big factor-- they may feel the need to post ANYTHING to get to the "next level."

But what's worse? The forum being taken over by seasoned veteran NOOLers who may think they know everything and have no need to post -OR- The forum being taken over by New Order Newbies who ask questions and provide pre-mature input so that the veteran NOOLers can correct them.

It really doesn't matter much though; nobody should take forums that seriously anyway...

Patrick wrote:

TLV wrote: A few off-thread-topic-postings are Ok, I'm guilty myself. What can be a little bit annoying is when there are pages after pages with a "seemingly pointless" dialog of one-liners in a hijacked thread.

What is "seemingly pointless" to one person is centrally important to someone else. The actual topic of the thread may "seem pointless" in some cases.

And you post in such a thread because...?

/TLV

ShugZV© wrote:

38 EE's wrote: Thought you would be watching Footballers Wives SHUG?

:topic: :D

To clarify this SHUGZV,if you are watching FOOTBALLERS WIVES,which i am for the FIRST time,there was an advert featuring NEW ORDER singing MORNING NIGHT AND DAY which is available free from the GUARDIAN on SATURDAY.For those of you with a family life this will mean you can read this paper at your leisure.ME,i will be getting READY to go out that evening.Its great when your straight!YEAH :D

TLV wrote:

Patrick wrote:

TLV wrote: A few off-thread-topic-postings are Ok, I'm guilty myself. What can be a little bit annoying is when there are pages after pages with a "seemingly pointless" dialog of one-liners in a hijacked thread.

What is "seemingly pointless" to one person is centrally important to someone else. The actual topic of the thread may "seem pointless" in some cases.

And you post in such a thread because...?

/TLV

Because someone makes a comment that I want to respond to.

Is the concept of spontaneity so hard to understand?

Can someone recap whats going on here please? ;)

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote: Is the concept of spontaneity so hard to understand?

Rocket Mick did 12 months for this

GUILT IS A USELESS GUY FROM CHORLEY!:D

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote: Is the concept of spontaneity so hard to understand?

Rocket Mick did 12 months for this

For an off-topic post?

DoN wrote: Can someone recap whats going on here please? ;)

Well NEVILLE got sent off for being a big girl,SHUGZV was allowed to WRITE NEW SONGS ON HIS COMPUTER.And i was just having a beer!:D

I seems that Hank has presciently sorted out the two sides rather well.

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote:

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote: Is the concept of spontaneity so hard to understand?

Rocket Mick did 12 months for this

For an off-topic post?

It was a post he hit the poor chap with

LAMP HARD and i hate CHELSEA too!:D

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote:

ShugZV© wrote:

Patrick wrote: Is the concept of spontaneity so hard to understand?

Rocket Mick did 12 months for this

For an off-topic post?

It was a post he hit the poor chap with

Now I understand.:D

Rocket Mick wrote:

DoN wrote: Can someone recap whats going on here please? ;)

Well NEVILLE got sent off for being a big girl,SHUGZV was allowed to WRITE NEW SONGS ON HIS COMPUTER.And i was just having a beer!:D

And Scholes excuse? On second thoughts I dont want to know..

Pass me the beers and play NewOrder music to my ears

and thats a song for Shug

Johnny Giles wrote:

Hank Wiseass© wrote: Let's decide.

As you've started this thread Hank, surely its only fair you indicate which way you're leaning on the subject ?

Right, I'm off to spam BCD with endless tripe about a popular band I like, New Order.

My gripe is with the faceless snides who fire of e-mails to whinge to Seb and Nic. It seems to happen whenever Huntsman and Patrick get together. Yes, some of the threads may veer of topic but why anyone is so precious about their thread that they can’t get by without resorting to whining behind people’s backs is beyond me. Legitimate gripes that are about perhaps improving the NOOL experience for all and are done so out in the open aren’t something I’m rallying against.

There’s a split between the need for information that might have some value and relevance to the band and more general posts that coexist amongst these. The nature of these boards isn’t always conducive to this coexistence but as long as the vast majority are happy, why should a vocal minority dictate the agenda?

BCD was created to appease the whiners, when the majority were happy with the way things were. Again it’s arisen when hardly anyone seems to have a problem that they’re prepared to bring out into the open. People feel put off from contributing and as though there's a need to tread on egg-shells and apologise for doing the very thing that made this site popular in the first place.

You're all on my doodoo list right now.

Enjoy

eCKoH

Once again, thank you, Hank, for providing a voice of reason.

As has been said there is only so much you can talk about a band as lazy as NewOrder without repeating yourself. New albums and gigs give us more to waffle on about but half the time we end up bickering over completely inane shite cause their aint nothing new to discuss!

To state the obvious, the current vote is 23 to 3 in favor of spontaneity. That is not close. There have been some complaints about the phrasing of the question. If I were on the other side of this question, I would have had no hesitation in voting for what I believed in regardless of how the question was phrased. I think the conclusion is fairly clear. The overwhelming majority have registered their view on one side of the issue.

Tarbox23 wrote: nic makes total sense.

I hate seeing a thread here about something I am interested in, seeing it is 4 pages long and getting all juiced up, then finding that the 2nd reply on page 1 is someone hijacking the thread and then like 4 people have a little talk for 2 pages about some restaurant or toothpaste (!) or whatnot and thus nobody ever answers or relates back to the original interesting thread topic.... and then i get in trouble for starting up a new thread about the topic, when one of those 4 idiots tells me to go read the thread down below about the very same topic that they ruined...

Bizarrely this all happened inside 49 posts and yet you still found time to contribute to every contoversy I can recall here in the last two years.

Careful; you don't know who he really is.

regarding sexually suggestive posts: i'm no fragile flower and i can give as good as i can get if i so choose. boys will be boys, doesn't bother me. you can talk about my T&A as long as you want...just don't dare insult my intelligence, or i'll bite your head off!

as far as spontaneity in posts, i get a bit bored with strict, dry trainspotter threads which seem to have been devised by john calvin himself. however, it's also rather tiring when i read the first page or so of a thread, post, then discover that my post seems to be coming out of nowhere as the topic has veered so off-course. perhaps it's my own fault for not reading the whole thread, and i'm often as guilty as the next person when it comes to wandering off topic, but maybe some 'zooming out' and then 'zooming back in' is in order to bring threads full circle?

AgentWood wrote: regarding sexually suggestive posts: i'm no fragile flower and i can give as good as i can get if i so choose. boys will be boys, doesn't bother me. you can talk about my T&A as long as you want...just don't dare insult my intelligence, or i'll bite your head off!

Careful, it's sensitive down there! Now I'm in trouble! But really, AgentWood, I love you for your intelligence.

I always 'freewheel' between both forums and enjoy both forums equally. In times of concerts or new releases this site and its forums are a great source for getting all the info one wants or needs. The 'veterans' on here are, to me, a valuable source of information, stories and facts . Me, i'm not too bothered with threads being 'hijacked', usually i find that, before being 'hijacked', a question is often dealt with properly. For me the highlight on this forum are the often priceless conversations between H. and P. Please come back

It did occurr to me that you might be able to work out my stance without too much prompting but I did want to clear up a couple of the points Ally raised.

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Quite possible Patrick... I'm having health problems since last friday and I'm not too well, but it's getting better, so I'm not "all there" since then.

I don't mind the off-topic posts, but when it becames bigger than the topic itself, I believe it might become a problem...

I'm sorry you're not feeling well, Nic. I hope you feel better soon.

As you may have perceived, this is a very sensitive subject for a great many people.

Yes, and that surely doesn't mean that any of you should get the hell out of this website.

It simply means that you must find a way to make your the spontanious messages are not disrupting the discussion in a particular topic some people are having.

It's hard to accomodate everybody, but I also hate it when I'm trying to find the message thread of a specific topic, it's difficult to keep up.

Plus, do you think people who subscribed to this topic are happy to get all the not related chating messages?

As I said, it's hard to please everyone, and this is what I'm trying to achieve.. so let's find a solution together, and it shouldn't be kicking people outta here, that's for sure.

I don't think any of us ever have the intention of "deliberately disrupting" a thread. As I said in an earlier post, what tends to happen is that one of us sees a specific post that we want to respond to, and the course of the discussion happens to take a turn away from the original topic.

The point has been made that most of the time the strictly on-topic discussions tend to get rather repetitive. There are not really an unlimited number of things that can be said that are strictly on-topic.

And we are not talking about finding a cure for cancer here. It is not as though going off-topic has interfered with the progress of scientific research. New Order are unquestionably my favorite band, and have been for twenty years, and I am as interested as anyone in finding out when new releases will be available, what the members of the band have said in interviews, how new releases have been reviewed, and similar things. But there is really only so much that can be said on those subjects.

I very much appreciate your expressing the sentiment that you don't want to drive anyone away, Nic.

My purpose at the moment is simply to make sure that there is a thorough airing of the points of view that some of us hold.

Good to see you're still engaging in NOOL, P.

All I can get out of H these days is a series of photos of small animals in quaint poses. It could be terminal this time.

:\pimp3:

In some respects I have a certain hardiness, DC. I've grown accustomed to your little jabs and would rather miss them if I followed H's example.

I do think we may have seen the last of H at NOOL.

He has more self-control than I do.

He has left these shores forever to embark upon his own Odyssey. Fare thee well, critter.

:\pimp3:

Most squirrels I've met prefer slightly larger boats for fishing.

He'll be back.. he always is!

P, hopefully H will follow your good example ... errr I mean for deciding to come back here not for larger boats.

Only time will tell, M. All we can do is wait and hope.

Patrick wrote: Most squirrels I've met prefer slightly larger boats for fishing.

For heaven's sake Pats, we're speaking in metaphors again aren't we? Don't take it so literally. I don't even know if they can operate a rod.

:\pimp3:

Patrick wrote: Only time will tell, M. All we can do is wait and hope.

I hope so too. I find it pleasing that his presence can still be felt here, even as he hibernates.

depthcharge wrote:

Patrick wrote: Most squirrels I've met prefer slightly larger boats for fishing.

For heaven's sake Pats, we're speaking in metaphors again aren't we? Don't take it so literally. I don't even know if they can operate a rod.

:\pimp3:

Oh, I know that, DC. I considered commenting on the wondrous and unbelievable feat of obtaining a photograph of a squirrel holding a fishing rod. But then I decided to go in a different direction. A brief and temporary thread hi-jacking, if you will.

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote: In some respects I have a certain hardiness, DC. I've grown accustomed to your little jabs and would rather miss them if I followed H's example.

I do think we may have seen the last of H at NOOL.

He has more self-control than I do.

I don't understand why he would have gone? What happened so bad?!

Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Patrick wrote: Only time will tell, M. All we can do is wait and hope.

I hope so too. I find it pleasing that his presence can still be felt here, even as he hibernates.

That sounds like it might be a line from a song, M.

Patrick wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

Patrick wrote: Most squirrels I've met prefer slightly larger boats for fishing.

For heaven's sake Pats, we're speaking in metaphors again aren't we? Don't take it so literally. I don't even know if they can operate a rod.

:\pimp3:

Oh, I know that, DC. I considered commenting on the wondrous and unbelievable feat of obtaining a photograph of a squirrel holding a fishing rod. But then I decided to go in a different direction. A brief and temporary thread hi-jacking, if you will.

He's at it again!

Did Hunstman take the witch-dunking stool with him?

I hope he took the NOOL village pond, at least.

That's it! "I feel your presence everywhere, even as you hibernate".

Now there's a rhyme for you.

Patrick wrote: Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

Think there was more to it than that.

:\pimp3:

depthcharge wrote:

Patrick wrote: Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

Think there was more to it than that.

:\pimp3:

Well, perhaps each of us who were reprimanded had a slightly different perspective.

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote: In some respects I have a certain hardiness, DC. I've grown accustomed to your little jabs and would rather miss them if I followed H's example.

I do think we may have seen the last of H at NOOL.

He has more self-control than I do.

I don't understand why he would have gone? What happened so bad?!

Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

I just asked to behave!! that wasn't even negative!!

Ask Rocket how I am when I'm reprimanding... he got banned for a week!! ;)

The funny thing is, he was trying for two!

Perhaps we should go ask Julio. He knows how it feels. ;)

Patrick wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

Patrick wrote: Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

Think there was more to it than that.

:\pimp3:

Well, perhaps each of us who were reprimanded had a slightly different perspective.

Not going to name anyone but there were claims that others were privately annoyed with thread hijacks and had begun reporting culprits to moderator(s). Hanky obviously saw these references too.

And there were others who were outwardly hostile. At least they were upfront instead of creating this sort of duplicitous environment.

:\pimp3:

They should rename the forum PMO - Piss and Moan Online.

e

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Spotnick wrote:

Patrick wrote: In some respects I have a certain hardiness, DC. I've grown accustomed to your little jabs and would rather miss them if I followed H's example.

I do think we may have seen the last of H at NOOL.

He has more self-control than I do.

I don't understand why he would have gone? What happened so bad?!

Perhaps you don't appreciate the power and force of a reprimand from you, Nic.

I just asked to behave!! that wasn't even negative!!

Ask Rocket how I am when I'm reprimanding... he got banned for a week!! ;)

Well, Nic, I obviously can't speak for H. I think the discussion we are all having in this thread is very healthy.

You might want to try getting in touch with him privately if you'd like to understand his thinking.

A week!I'm still barred......... :D

Before I vote on this important question, I need to know if you mean "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like pre-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams, or "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like post-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams.

Big effin' difference.

Gnu Odor wrote: Before I vote on this important question, I need to know if you mean "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like pre-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams, or "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like post-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams.

Big effin' difference.

I believe the initiator of this thread is the only person who can provide an authoritative answer to that question.

Gnu Odor wrote: Before I vote on this important question, I need to know if you mean "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like pre-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams, or "amusing, entertaining, and frequently nonsenical" like post-"Mork and Mindy" Robin Williams.

Big effin' difference.

I'd include the period during Mork and Mindy but not any subsequent work, with possible exception of a few scenes from GMV.

Shazbot!

Patrick wrote: When you are about to disrupt? The whole point is that the thing is unplanned. I'm sorry, Nic, but you obviously are missing the entire point.

*I think you both have good arguments, the final problem is, as you say, that every time the disruption is 100% unintentional, it just happens with one post, its reply, and then the following reply and so on and before you can notice you have a dozen of off topic posts. But still anyone can post a message related to the topic, quoting or not, the thread can go on parallel lines, topic and off. If it doesn't happen it just means no one else has anything to say about the initial subject and the thread would be dead anyway at this point, so it's not the disruption killing it... We could have a "Disrupted Threads" forum for those like me who haven't the time for BCD but would like to follow the disrupted threads anyway, but I'm not sure it'd be a good idea... I still find that following the natural flow of a thread is the best option, whether it goes off topic or not... Also I don't think I need to say writing on the forum is totally different from a chatroom...

Ally3000 wrote: As for minor off-topic quips, I don't see the problem there, as I said it makes the place more sociable. But entire off topic threads should be moderated.

*Yes Ally, but the problem is when do enjoyable minor off-topic quips become proper annoying disruptions? When and how to stop them? Must we have an off-topic post count and tell people to shut up when we reach the quote? Maybe the only solution is to create that "Disrupted Threads" forum and move there the threads after, say, 10 off topic posts after a warning (some more extra work for our good Nic, since he has nothing to do! ;) ). If people will want to post again on the original subject, they'll start another thread recalling the original one.

Just to state the obvious once again, it's now 31 to 4 in favor of spontaneity.

Hey hey guys, remember the time when we were discussing how good in English we are (I mean Mick, Nic and myself here) and all that in a thread called New Forum Vs Old Forum ... It was totally off-topic but very informative as well.

Oops. 32.

Patrick wrote: Oops. 32.

I've not voted yet, Pat. I am waiting to hear all the arguments before I form my point of view

Glad to see Trick is still involved

e

eCKOh wrote: Glad to see Trick is still involved

e

Thank you, T.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Patrick wrote: Oops. 32.

I've not voted yet, Pat. I am waiting to hear all the arguments before I form my point of view

I suspect the arguments have been pretty fully presented. It might be time to start thinking about the possibility of starting to think about how you are going to vote, Big. Just a thought.

Patrick wrote: I suspect the arguments have been pretty fully presented. It might be time to start thinking about the possibility of starting to think about how you are going to vote, Big. Just a thought.

I think I'll give it another couple of days, just to see whether anyone comes up with something that convinces me either way. Then I'm going to have to draw lots.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Patrick wrote: I suspect the arguments have been pretty fully presented. It might be time to start thinking about the possibility of starting to think about how you are going to vote, Big. Just a thought.

I think I'll give it another couple of days, just to see whether anyone comes up with something that convinces me either way. Then I'm going to have to draw lots.

Is there anything I could do that might help you decide, Big? Money, perhaps?

Well, in the meantime, it's now 33 to 4.

But, P, real love can't be bought

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

my votes for sale

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote: my votes for sale

Name your price, Hac.

Then I'll have two!

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

This will all be meaningless after May 5th

e

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Well I vote this thread be tossed and the originators be stoned to death

eCKOh wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Well I vote this thread be tossed and the originators be stoned to death

This seems unlike you, T. What's wrong?

Tell me it's not true, tell me it's alright

Gotta keep it New Order related though

Patrick wrote:

eCKOh wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Well I vote this thread be tossed and the originators be stoned to death

This seems unlike you, T. What's wrong?

Well Trick I think this is a petty thread and beneath the intellect of everyone who posts on here.

There's always a few bad apples but that shouldn't ruin it for everyone else.

Plus I aint get none in a week now so I'm a little irritable

e

eCKOh wrote:

Patrick wrote:

eCKOh wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Well I vote this thread be tossed and the originators be stoned to death

This seems unlike you, T. What's wrong?

Well Trick I think this is a petty thread and beneath the intellect of everyone who posts on here.

There's always a few bad apples but that shouldn't ruin it for everyone else.

Plus I aint get none in a week now so I'm a little irritable

e

Perhaps it's time for us to go :topic:!

eCKOh wrote:

Patrick wrote:

eCKOh wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: But, P, real love can't be bought

I thought we were talking about votes, M?

Yes, Sir, we were. ;)

Well I vote this thread be tossed and the originators be stoned to death

This seems unlike you, T. What's wrong?

Well Trick I think this is a petty thread and beneath the intellect of everyone who posts on here.

There's always a few bad apples but that shouldn't ruin it for everyone else.

Plus I aint get none in a week now so I'm a little irritable

e

Sorry to hear that, T.

Well, E, I must say I totally disagree with your point of view, mate. Just like P said in one of his previous posts, this is the healthy conversation we lead here. Once there is a problem we should all discuss it, at least that's what I've been taught.

a problem shared is a problem ......

My point is I do not see the problem...I mean for the most part everyone who posts is a New Order fan right??

For the most part the threads normally stay on topic...Yes or No?

Everyone is probably guilty of trailing off the topic at one time or another and we did come on here to talk about the band and get others input and we're all human.

Thus, I think this particular thread is petty.

I may not like someone and they may not like me but just because you have 50000000000 damn posts doesnt give you the right to judge someone who just came on the board.

I just think we need to get over it and move on to more important matters like who's got the first round at the after parties

Beatrix Kiddo wrote: Well, E, I must say I totally disagree with your point of view, mate. Just like P said in one of his previous posts, this is the healthy conversation we lead here. Once there is a problem we should all discuss it, at least that's what I've been taught.

I think he's just down in the dumps, M.

I aint mad at ya's

have a good weekend everybody

e

eCKOh wrote: I aint mad at ya's

have a good weekend everybody

e

You too, T.

My vote has now been cast. Truthfully, my decision was made some time ago. I would really have been happier if I could have voted as follows: After hearing the excellent arguments on this thread, I have a deeper understanding of the forum, the way it works and the way it should work. Off-topic posts belong on BCD. On topic threads which have a serious and well defined subject (the prices that are paid for things on ebay, for example) should really remain free of off-topic posts, although odd light-hearted posts are of course accepted, even expected. Threads that start with a comment on an event, or particular opinion (video treat for today, Revenge Photos, Big Announcement Tomorrow), while certainly on topic, are fair game for a bit of wandering onto other subjects, whether or not they are related to the band. Once a thread has become over inflated with conversation, it will simply die. The subject had probably run itself dry, and anyone with more to say could start another thread anyway. Besides, anyone interested in the subject could monitor the thread from the front page and only read it when someone posted who he suspects might have something interesting to say. I would have voted for that one sooner.

Jeff Tomlinson posted a thread about his art band. It was immediately (albeit unintentionally) hijacked, and became a classic, with Dr. Garymac ultimately diagnosing JSB's geliophobia and prescribing treatment, before the thread was artfully returned to young Master Tomlinson with some astute observations on art bands he should become acquainted with.

There are many other examples of relatively mundane threads that once (unintentionally) hijacked, become classics. If this concept is confusing, please refer to Hank's choices in the poll that began this thread. That should explain it all.

'Nuff said?

Drat! I was unfortunately too late to improperly influence Biggie!

Oh, by the way, I certainly didn't mean to imply yesterday that, because I love AgentWood for her intelligence, that she doesn't also have excellent T&A.

Question should be rephrased...

Would you prefer people to post amusing, entertaining, frequently and on-topic posts or regurgitate tired old off-topic, uninspiring, same old same old waffle ad naseum ramblings?

I think the posts should try to be on-topic. For off-topic material there's always the BCD forum, email, chatroom or instant messaging. I don't normally have the time to log on here as often as others but when I do, I often find myself wading through the drivel when I just want to discuss, hear other people's feedback about the band and its music. I could see how a thread originator could be annoyed by having others not respond to the topic at hand, especially since this is the main forum. I don't mind an occasional drift from the topic, but I think it's a good idea to keep things consistently on-topic and inclusive for all fans to discuss New Order.

Just my opinion.

Also - why don't more people visit the other forums, such as Music for Pleasure, State of the Nation, Buy/Sell? It seems like only a small amount of "regulars" and more newbies post on those forums. The polls, if done provocatively, can be interesting. I understand most people have probably voted for the Weekly Song Reviews and there's not much to add there. But take Music for Pleasure, that's barely gotten started and could surely use more feedback (right Ally?)!

You know I expressed my opinion in favour of spontaneity. But I'd also like to say I guess Huntsman's reaction to Nic's message is likely to be a bit exaggerated. Nic is doing a very precious job here, he's always been very tolerating and kind, I don't think he was too hard with Huntsman, he has every right to tell people if he thinks some of their behaviour here is not correct. Actually I hope that if I ever post anything wrong here someone moderates me, that's their task here. So I guess Huntsman should stop being a bit childish and come back, I don't like when people who are supposed to have balls run away at the first small problem, there are biggest problems in life and you can't always hide yourself, you better learn to face them...

PM, I think you are being unfair to H. He should be free to do whatever he wants to do, like all the rest of us. I don't recall that any of us ever signed an oath promising to post at NOOL. If he feels unwelcome here, and chooses to stop posting, that is his choice to make. After all that he has contributed here, I really think it is not appropriate to criticize him for choosing (if he has) not to post here any more.

I just say it's dead wrong from him to feel unwelcome here. I'm sure the very most of us like him and even if someone asks him to moderate his off topic posts on the New Order forum this doesn't mean they don't like him at all.

forced voting on my polls.

Yawns profusely

e

35:6 for Mr. H, now. It's all up to him right now.

I had written a long discussion about this issue, but it failed to post (hence the previous post with no content), and I lost what I wrote. Ah, sweet irony. Here is the abbreviated version:

Perhaps the source of everyone’s frustration is to be found in a recent study by Kings College London that found that constant e-mailing reduces your intelligence by 10 IQ points, an effect more damaging than smoking marijuana. Study subjects exhibited an inability to focus and an inability to distinguish between trivial and significant messages. Based on these observations, we could also conclude that if the subjects were part of an on-line forum, then they would engage in frequent off-topic posting.

If constant e-mailing does indeed impair our cognitive abilities, then we can hypothesize that the effects will become more severe over time. The effect is similar to entropy: the disorder (off-topic posting) in a closed system (NOOL) increases over time. If this is true, then each of us should abandon participation in NOOL – and any other on-line forums or chatrooms we frequent – posthaste.

My own humble observations, however, run counter to the study cited above. I have found that the members who have been part of NOOL the longest, consistently provide the most interesting information about New Order (music, gigs, history, etc.) and also provide the most entertaining humor, sometimes through off-topic postings.

As was also noted, the existence of a New Order Related Forum and an Off Topic Forum was intended to segregate the more serious from the less serious postings. Perhaps there should be a reminder to members as to the purpose of the two forums. Not everyone may be aware of the reasons that motivated the creation of the different forums. A polite, brief refresher on etiquette may also be helpful.

This is getting long (as my wife observes, I discuss issues for too long – and the proof is in the posting), so I’ll end with these thoughts: It’s great to have a forum to discuss New Order related and non-New Order related issues with New Order fans from around the globe. I sincerely hope that no one who adds value to the conversations and discussions on NOOL leaves because of frustration over off-topic posts. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, but without all of the parts, the whole is less than what it could be.

Interesting, if a mite to academic, point you make there, EpicRear.

Personally, I see no problem whatsoever with threads drifting off topic - it is inherent human nature for conversations to drift from the original point of discussion, and it's incredibly anal and cowardly to snipe about this behind the safety of a private email to the webmaster. It should be pointed out that in almost every case, the motivations of the 'off topic instigators' are not malicious, simply to contribute a comment. The idea to drag a thread from this forum over to BCD is a redundant one unless the initial topic of the thread is not NO-related. Another point that has been mentioned already is that these off-topic conversations sometimes come about in a thread that has been discussed ad-nauseum previously. I think all posters (newbs especially) should read the FAQ before they post a "where's Gillian?"-type thread - maybe Nic could include this as a step in the newb registration process, or have a sticky thread that links to the FAQs?

In summary - leave it be; and if a compaint is made about this, do it publicly or bite your tongue. This site needs the like of Huntsman, Patrick, DepthCharge et al. to keep discussions vibrant and interesting, and we shouldn't discourage their discourse.

Just my opinion CTB