Is Barney Illiterate or has a overgrown Ego?

According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

I think his words were at a gid "this is I, new order." Now the band needs councilling.

Has he vaguely forgotten there 3 more?

Where did you read that? I think his ego is very big indeed...

Ally3000 wrote: I think Barney's taking the piss here. He obviously knows that he and New Order wouldn't be where they are today thanks to alot of people and not simply his own talent. Namely Ian Curtis, Peter Hook, Stephen Morris, Rob Gretton, Martin Hannett, Gillian Gilbert, Tony Wilson (Yes, even him!), Johnny Marr, etc. The list goes on and on.

I think you may be underestimating the dry northern sense of humour ;) New Order always come out with alot of contradictory bollocks in interviews, I personally think it's their way of keeping from getting bored on the endless promo tours that inevitably comes with a new album launch.

Ally.

I know Barney knows that without Hooky, Steve Gillian, Ian and Phil, they wouldnt be where they are today.

I guess what he said is because he had a mental breakdown at the moment at the Canal

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

I think his words were at a gid "this is I, new order." Now the band needs councilling.

Has he vaguely forgotten there 3 more?

Surprising though it may be, not everyone speaks French. Bernard has always had a go at attempting a French sentence or two during French gigs, possibly the most notable being "this is called fromage et petit pois, As It Is and When It Was" at Rennes in 1985. It's possibly around 35 years since he did French at school, maybe longer, so for him to even get than much ain't bad!

Oh and by the way, it's "counselling" not "councilling".

"This song is all mine, so the rest of you can go take a break."

I thought je m'appelle New Order would mean my name is New Order?

He meant our name is New Order - what's that, Nous something.

I was shit at French, which I regrette.

He's in illustrious company though. Didn't John F Kennedy once tell an international audience that he was a large boiled sausage?

I think it's just his dry sense of humor, as Ally said.

BIGINOIL wrote: He's in illustrious company though. Didn't John F Kennedy once tell an international audience that he was a large boiled sausage?

Yeah, "Ich bin ein Berliner". It was a jelly donut.

Plus Barney had a glass of wine so hes loose as a goose.

new girl wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote: He's in illustrious company though. Didn't John F Kennedy once tell an international audience that he was a large boiled sausage?

Yeah, "Ich bin ein Berliner". It was a jelly donut.

He knew what he was saying - he was being witty.

Marr - lol

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

I think his words were at a gid "this is I, new order." Now the band needs councilling.

Has he vaguely forgotten there 3 more?

Je m'appelle New Order = Hi, I don't speak French and I couldn't care less!

Ally3000 wrote: I think Barney's taking the piss here. He obviously knows that he and New Order wouldn't be where they are today thanks to alot of people and not simply his own talent. Namely Ian Curtis, Peter Hook, Stephen Morris, Rob Gretton, Martin Hannett, Gillian Gilbert, Tony Wilson (Yes, even him!), Johnny Marr, etc. The list goes on and on.

I think you may be underestimating the dry northern sense of humour ;) New Order always come out with alot of contradictory bollocks in interviews, I personally think it's their way of keeping from getting bored on the endless promo tours that inevitably comes with a new album launch.

Ally.

Totally agree. I don't think Barney would know what an ego was if it jumped up and slapped him. I reckon he was having a laugh.

I just understand something with: "...apelle New Order.". I can't understand if he says "Je m'apelle". Right would be: nous apellons (don't know the right spelling). My french is rusty, too. But more worse than my english at last (I hope ;) ). But Barney has a big ego no matter what he said .

BIGINOIL wrote:

new girl wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote: He's in illustrious company though. Didn't John F Kennedy once tell an international audience that he was a large boiled sausage?

Yeah, "Ich bin ein Berliner". It was a jelly donut.

He knew what he was saying - he was being witty.

This is always quoted in a wrong way... JFK said something like: One day the people in Berlin would (after the war, splitted Berlin etc.) be proud to say: "Ich bin ein Berliner". He didn't mean himself. But that's another topic...

don't think he really feels comfortable making speeches in front of crowds, whatever the language

...and Benard has said a lot of confused things, especially in the last 15 years

Miss Disco wrote: Totally agree. I don't think Barney would know what an ego was if it jumped up and slapped him. I reckon he was having a laugh.

Nicely put!

He didn't finish his glass (bottle?) of wine (he had to take it on stage), so maybe he was confused.

Ally3000 wrote:

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

I think his words were at a gid "this is I, new order." Now the band needs councilling.

Has he vaguely forgotten there 3 more?

I think you're looking for controversy where there is none

Ally.

I think he's just being a cock. Mind you, we're used to it now!

Bere wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote:

new girl wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote: He's in illustrious company though. Didn't John F Kennedy once tell an international audience that he was a large boiled sausage?

Yeah, "Ich bin ein Berliner". It was a jelly donut.

He knew what he was saying - he was being witty.

This is always quoted in a wrong way... JFK said something like: One day the people in Berlin would (after the war, splitted Berlin etc.) be proud to say: "Ich bin ein Berliner". He didn't mean himself. But that's another topic...

I know he was talking about how all free people of the world stand together with the people of West Berlin in their struggle to maintain their freedom against the Communist. But like you said it's another topic and we weren't going to go into it here.

oldmonkey wrote:

Ally3000 wrote:

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

I think his words were at a gid "this is I, new order." Now the band needs councilling.

Has he vaguely forgotten there 3 more?

I think you're looking for controversy where there is none

Ally.

I think he's just being a cock. Mind you, we're used to it now!

dont be calling the ketle [black]black[/black] . Old monkey spanker

it is clearly threads like this that make NOOL such a critical aspect of the new order community, and keep the band checking in to see what the latest insightful critique is....

mesmerizing discourse....

a) It's pretty clear by now that the band does check in here; and

b) It hardly seems consistent with their personalities that they'd be so anal as to be offended by the disourse here.

Tarbox23 wrote: it is clearly threads like this that make NOOL such a critical aspect of the new order community, and keep the band checking in to see what the latest insightful critique is....

mesmerizing discourse....

sad, and the fact I was joking. No one can joke around here. Oh well, life goes on

bLuE oRdEr wrote: a) It's pretty clear by now that the band does check in here

well, if they do I betcha Barney think my joke is funny.

Oh please, spare us the "I was only joking" routine...

The quality of threads on the sane side are rather dull these days.:D

So Barney forgot the french for "hello, we're new order", he can't remember the songs he's been singing for the last 28 years without a prompt. His heads fucked, just let him continue making great songs while he still can.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: a) It's pretty clear by now that the band does check in here; and

b) It hardly seems consistent with their personalities that they'd be so anal as to be offended by the disourse here.

you missed my point entirely... i guess i need to put smilies in my posts for you slower folks....

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Nic, I love your new sig... I love that vinyl!!! I remember reading that the first time and KNOWING the new order were the hippest band in the universe....

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here are some smilies for the slower folks... you can cut and paste these into any of my future posts that you get all wound up about!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I'm being hypnotized by smilies.

Help!

;)

Tarbox23 wrote:

here are some smilies for the slower folks... you can cut and paste these into any of my future posts that you get all wound up about!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Acid house was 1989 sir...... ;)

Tarbox23 wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: a) It's pretty clear by now that the band does check in here; and

b) It hardly seems consistent with their personalities that they'd be so anal as to be offended by the disourse here.

you missed my point entirely... i guess i need to put smilies in my posts for you slower folks....

+++++++++++++++++

Nic, I love your new sig... I love that vinyl!!! I remember reading that the first time and KNOWING the new order were the hippest band in the universe....

+++++++++++++++++

here are some smilies for the slower folks... you can cut and paste these into any of my future posts that you get all wound up about!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Backpedaling on the sarcasm in your previous post? Or is my sarcasm detector malfunctioning?

Now i know its Barney being French-illiterate.

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

Actually, Barney is facetiously commenting on the postmodern nature of New Order by saying that, contrary to post-structuralist thought, the "I" (i.e., the logos of Platonic metaphysics) is reasserted in New Order's personal aesthetic. His religious background apparent in many lyrics should point to the very modern problem involved in trying to shape a stable identity in a postmodern world in which traditional Christian beliefs can no longer shore up the "quiditas" (as described by Thomas Aquinas) that would help to define the essential nature of one's soul in theological terms. In that case, since Plato's concept of the logos directly corresponds with Freud's concept of the ego, Barney is in fact reasserting the supposed importance of a more traditional view of metaphysical identity in a way that seems to be the result of a merely "overgrown ego."

There's some "mesmerizing discourse" for you, you knob-end.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

Actually, Barney is facetiously commenting on the postmodern nature of New Order by saying that, contrary to post-structuralist thought, the "I" (i.e., the logos of Platonic metaphysics) is reasserted in New Order's personal aesthetic. His religious background apparent in many lyrics should point to the very modern problem involved in trying to shape a stable identity in a postmodern world in which traditional Christian beliefs can no longer shore up the "quiditas" (as described by Thomas Aquinas) that would help to define the essential nature of one's soul in theological terms. In that case, since Plato's concept of the logos directly corresponds with Freud's concept of the ego, Barney is in fact reasserting the supposed importance of a more traditional view of metaphysical identity in a way that seems to be the result of a merely "overgrown ego."

There's some "mesmerizing discourse" for you, you knob-end.

Tanks you for killing us with that dull, boring history. Now I have a cure for insomnia

Sorry, you weren't the knob-end I was referring to. More like Tarbox, the unhumored.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Sorry, you weren't the knob-end I was referring to. More like Tarbox, the unhumored.

you quoted me so I thought.....

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Sorry, you weren't the knob-end I was referring to. More like Tarbox, the unhumored.

You should put some smiles on that, so the "slower folks"** don't misunderstand you. :)

** Not referring to you, Msr. Latanville. ;)

Richard Latanville wrote:

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Sorry, you weren't the knob-end I was referring to. More like Tarbox, the unhumored.

you quoted me so I thought.....

Yeah, I started by just responding to your original post before extending it to declaring Tarbox a knob-end. Should've quoted both posts in question. No harm intended, Richard...you're in my good book.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Richard Latanville wrote: According to Barney: There is an "I" in New order.

Actually, Barney is facetiously commenting on the postmodern nature of New Order by saying that, contrary to post-structuralist thought, the "I" (i.e., the logos of Platonic metaphysics) is reasserted in New Order's personal aesthetic. His religious background apparent in many lyrics should point to the very modern problem involved in trying to shape a stable identity in a postmodern world in which traditional Christian beliefs can no longer shore up the "quiditas" (as described by Thomas Aquinas) that would help to define the essential nature of one's soul in theological terms. In that case, since Plato's concept of the logos directly corresponds with Freud's concept of the ego, Barney is in fact reasserting the supposed importance of a more traditional view of metaphysical identity in a way that seems to be the result of a merely "overgrown ego."

There's some "mesmerizing discourse" for you, you knob-end.

Leave the pretentious English major diction for your papers. There is no argument here: Barney just doesn't know French.

Not sure what it is with Bernard. Very unpredictable character, who is the real Bernard? the quiet private man or the guy who shouts out loud whooping at everything? perhaps he's changed as he's got older, but who really knows, it could be all an act for all you know. We really do not know, but he's quite intriquing when you come to think of it, some really emotional stuff going on in his lyrics from the past.

To follow-up to His Holiness' brief discourse:

From a metaphysical persepctive, doesn't it raise the question of where does the identity of Bernard end and where does the identity of New Order begin, and whether you can separate the two identities completely?

Would New Order, qua New Order, exist if Bernard did not exist, or if he was no longer in the band?

And if, assuming Bernard's absence, New Order would not exist, then does that not mean that there is some truth to his statement "this is I, New Order", or "Hello, I'm New Order"?

Can there be three in one and one in three? Have we resurrected the Arian heresy....or could it be that Bernard simply was slack in his French lessons?

ericpear wrote: To follow-up to His Holiness' brief discourse:

From a metaphysical persepctive, doesn't it raise the question of where does the identity of Bernard end and where does the identity of New Order begin, and whether you can separate the two identities completely?

Would New Order, qua New Order, exist if Bernard did not exist, or if he was no longer in the band?

And if, assuming Bernard's absence, New Order would not exist, then does that not mean that there is some truth to his statement "this is I, New Order", or "Hello, I'm New Order"?

Can there be three in one and one in three? Have we resurrected the Arian heresy....or could it be that Bernard simply was slack in his French lessons?

Well, ignoring the obvious French flub...New Order would not exist without Barney, either now or when the band first began as New Order proper. After JD, Barney's reluctant shift to vocalist makes him a logical touchstone for journalists who are obsessed with the idea of a lead singer as frontman/guiding force of the band. True, Barney has always been behind many of JD/NO's instrumentation, but it was never without Hooky and Steve at least. There was a reason why they didn't get individual credits in the sleeves.

Without any one of the individual members, New Order would not be New Order. New Order is a gestalt. If you don't know what that means, it's okay but you should probably read more.

I suppose if its the kind of thing you are gonna say - you should check it before saying it -

1. he's made himself look stupid
2. he's belittled the other members of the band (as if they care)
3. he's insulted the French audience To sum-up, since he can't remember two lines in any of the songs he sings, he was a bit foolish to try and remember his french learnings from 35 years ago. Ah well, no ones perfect and I guess that is one of the attractions of New Order...

I think he is a person who, although he cares for the lyrics, CAN possibly forget a line, and that would be embarrassing, and that´s why he uses the autocue.

Very good of him.

From a french native speaker, I confirm (merci à la traduction québéquoise;))Barney is french illitarate...despite his attempts to speak a few words in french wiich is appeciated from the Paris audience.

I remember a previous gig in 2002 at the Olympia, Paris when Barney introduced the whole band with these words: "Bonjour, je m'appelle Bernard; bonjour, je m'appelle Peter, bonjour je m'appelle Stephen" .Translation: " hello, my name is Bernard; hello, my name is Peter; hello, my name is Stephen".

By the way, could you imagine each member introducing himself "Hi, my name is.."?

So, as a conclusion, it's a question of french non-knowing, of a few white wine glasses before the show, and of a bit of Barney's "personal personality", especially on stage.

If I remember my french lessons correctly. wasnt Barney supposed to say "Bonjour, nous appelles new order (nous vous adorez)? From Barney that would be a first.

Richard Latanville wrote: If I remember my french lessons correctly. wasnt Barney supposed to say "Bonjour, nous appelles new order (nous vous adorez)? From Barney that would be a first.

I think it's "nous nous appellons New Order."

NEW ORDER have remained united for over two decades because all band members have learned to obey frontman BERNARD SUMNER and follow his lead. The Manchester, England, dance pioneers have been scoring chart success since forming New Order in 1980, and have managed to stay strong in the face of the crises they've encountered over the years - which would have torn most groups apart. However, bassist PETER HOOK is convinced New Order have enjoyed a long and fruitful career because they're happy to bow down to Sumner's domineering leadership. Explaining what has kept them together, Hook says, "A wry sense of humour, patience, and doing what Bernard says. "It is democracy, as long as you do what he says. He is a very strange character, because he is sort of insecure. Even if he gets something great, he'll still try everything else."

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20order%20follow%20the%20leader

[orange]EGO, IT IS THEN![/orange]